Hello y'all - Divorce

[mmhmm]

Have you considered asking him to fund your education so you can get a decent job with decent pay to help you work your way toward not depending on him? I'd think that would be a favor to both of you. He'd have to help you support yourself while you go to school, as well. Your responsibility would be to go to school and do well at something that will give you a decently-paying job. That, to me, seems a fair approach.

[Opti]

Yeah the 50k seemingly is the max out. So if I make 25k his alimony responsibility will be 25k, as others have said it sounds pretty standard. Kind of annoying because if he marries then their household income should be included. I get it I get it, but it should work both ways, if his new wife says screw that, why can't my new husband say screw that too.

Alimony is currently mostly just a transistion to be on your feet.

Lifetime alimony is dead in most states, and in NJ you'd be lucky to get 10 years of it.

You left him. You are getting the divorce. You are divorcing each other so you

should have no say in any income if he remarries someone with an income.

She would not have made an agreement with you.

The reason the future husband has no say, is the goal is for you to be

self-supporting and per the court that includes marrying into more income.

Its not a lifetime deal you are owed. I think he's being nice to you perhaps

because he might think you are getting back together someday. When he realizes you

aren't coming back, I think things will change.

For someone who decided to be the one to move out and file AND plan to live

on alimony for the near future, its shocking to me you seem to have done no

research on how this usually works.

[Deleted]

I think Nutty is going on what he's offered her, not what the court would award if they didn't come up with anything on their own.  My ex agreed to more child support than the state would have made him pay.  Of course, if he ever got fed up with paying it he could probably go to court and have it reduced. 

[nutty]

Yes this was what he offered. We are going to try and do it this way first. We just a few tweaks I think I will take it. He will not be supporting me forever. He knows I will have no problem working and supporting myself. There are some things to take into account that I have not discussed here and won't but there seems to be no acrimony at this time. The sooner it is done then we can move on.

[Deleted]

Jul 4, 2014 9:53:29 GMT -5 nutty said:

Yes this was what he offered. We are going to try and do it this way first. We just a few tweaks I think I will take it. He will not be supporting me forever. He knows I will have no problem working and supporting myself. There are some things to take into account that I have not discussed here and won't but there seems to be no acrimony at this time. The sooner it is done then we can move on.

can you share how, without a degree or work experience, you're going to be able to get a job to support yourself?

[Nazgul Girl]

   I'm pretty sure that she written ( in another thread ) that she was formerly a medical biller, if I'm not mistaken.   

[billisonboard]

It is difficult with the partial knowledge that we have on this board of other's exact circumstance to have a clear understanding.  It becomes easy to project our own experiences into situations.

My mother quit working around age twenty once my older sister was born.  She did not hold a job until after Dad left her when she was in her mid-forties.  I helped her connect to some "displaced homemaker" programs, one of which got her some supported employment for a while.  She eventually ended up working a fair number of hours at the local library.  I was not directly involved in finances so am not sure when/if the support changed or ended.  I doubt she ever really earned enough to fully support herself.

 I know that Dad provided support for a long time which was only fair in her case since he had allowed/enabled/encouraged her dependence.  Besides, I had no problem with his and "step-mom's" lifestyle being a little tougher.  It was always amusing when this woman who was three years my senior and the same age as my sister referred to us as, "The kids".

[zibazinski]

Ill bet. My EXs stepmother was a year older than his oldest brother. Made things hard all the way around.

[billisonboard]

I had a couple young kids when the dating started and the marriage ended (in that order).  I asked Dad at one point if I should get my kids to call her "Grandma".  If looks could kill 

[Ombud]

Kudos for realizing that this is a financial (legal) contract during a very emotional time which may (probably will) change as his life changes. I'm sure he is a great guy now and you're accommodating. We were too. Until his remarriage and then he wanted support (our earned income was the same but I invested well). FYI I had all the kids and was granted court ordered $1 per year child support.

Now I'm still fine and he wants DS to support him

[nutty]

Ouch ombud. As i say i can only work on myself and the info as i have right now. Yes i know things happen in the future. Believe me i have a notebook on this stuff.

[Deleted]

"Kind of annoying because if he marries then their household income should be included"

You realize how greedy this sounds, right? I am not following the logic behind why a future wife's income should be included.

You say he will not be supporting you forever but he kinda will be. 23 years until retirement then you get to start collecting on his SS.

Don't agree on future stuff, ask for the payout now like the retirement money (assuming it does not include 25% of what he keeps on putting). He could get a gf, new wife and you could be looking at a change. He may be a good guy but you dont know what life will bring. He may think he wont change now but 23 years is a long time.

The other thing is you two may agree on everything but that doesn 't mean the judge will just sign the decree as is. He could make changes.

[zibazinski]

Unless it screws a party one way or another and then VERY seriously, judges sign off. They don't want to be hassled and the party that doesn't agree usually gets the shaft if at all possible if they hassle a judge. This is how a friend of mine got lifetime alimony and no remarriage clause. It WAS 20 years and the typical remarriage clause but just before going in for decree her husband changed his mind. Judge got pissed off. Never ever piss off a judge. 

[zibazinski]

There had also been some underhanded things by her husband as well. This wasnt just some cut and dried divorce.

[Miss Tequila]

Reading this thread should make every man run from a woman who wants to be supported durin their marriage. I realize that no one thinks their marriage will end but statistically almost have do...marriage is a crap shot

I've ways said that women were foolish to be dependent on a man for support. Now I'm realizing men are just stupid for financially supporting a woman. I can't imagine divorcing and having to support my ex. I think I might plot his death at that point

[achelois]

In the past, it was much more difficult for women NOT to be dependent on a man, but in the last forty years or so, that has, certainly, changed significantly, especially with the advent of reliable birth control. Certainly, there are some women who merely transferred their dependency on a man to dependency on the taxpayers, but that is largely a fault of the "system" and another story altogether.

I agree  that is is foolish on both their parts, but especially the woman's. Dependency is severely limiting from a financial standpoint. As y'all know, I often say that it is much better to be in the position of paying the money than to need to receive it, just speaking from experience. 

I was was able to recover nicely from a divorce which ended a marriage of 22 years, despite losing all assets except my car, my clothes and $10,000 and having to pay child and spousal support.  It took hard work, of course, but I was able to do it.  My ex, while hardworking and doing OK financially, will never approach my financial level--since the divorce, he did secure a job which will give him a small pension, but doesn't really have much more in the bank than he did 20years ago when we divorced. 

Neither of my sons is married, but neither would want a dependent spouse. My older son is in a long-term relationship of 15 years. His GF is securely employed. My younger son usually dates women in his line of work (nursing). While I don't claim to be 100% responsible for the way they turned out, I think I did influence them in that aspect. 

That at is definitely a change from previous generations. Both my father and my FIL believed women had no business working, driving or having anything to do with money. My exH also tried to get me to abandon working, though not so blatantly. He just wouldn't do anything at home or with the kids(except hunting, fishing, etc., when they were old enough).

i certainly don't want to get into mommy war territory, as I fully support whatever choice someone makes, so long as they weigh the risks/benefits.  

[billisonboard]

Jul 5, 2014 7:56:52 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Reading this thread should make every man run from a woman who wants to be supported durin their marriage. I realize that no one thinks their marriage will end but statistically almost have do...marriage is a crap shot

I've ways said that women were foolish to be dependent on a man for support. Now I'm realizing men are just stupid for financially supporting a woman. I can't imagine divorcing and having to support my ex. I think I might plot his death at that point

Scott Peck wrote in one of his books how he had a counseling group of men who talked crudely of what they made prostitutes do to them and was disgusted by the way they treated women. Then later he had a counseling group of female prostitutes who talked about how easy it was to get men to empty their wallets for a few quick sexual tricks. Who are the victims and who are the exploiters? Always a good question.

[billisonboard]

Jul 5, 2014 8:05:17 GMT -5 achelois said:

In the past, it was much more difficult for women NOT to be dependent on a man, but in the last forty years or so, that has, certainly, changed significantly. 

I agree  that is is foolish on both their parts, but especially the woman's. Dependency is severely limiting. As y'all know, I often say that it is much better to be in the position of paying the money than to need to receive it, just speaking from experience. 

My wife talks all the time about wanting to quit her job. I never talk about wanting to quit mine. Being the primary breadwinner is very limiting.

[Miss Tequila]

Jul 5, 2014 8:12:19 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jul 5, 2014 7:56:52 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Reading this thread should make every man run from a woman who wants to be supported durin their marriage. I realize that no one thinks their marriage will end but statistically almost have do...marriage is a crap shot

I've ways said that women were foolish to be dependent on a man for support. Now I'm realizing men are just stupid for financially supporting a woman. I can't imagine divorcing and having to support my ex. I think I might plot his death at that point

Scott Peck wrote in one of his books how he had a counseling group of men who talked crudely of what they made prostitutes do to them and was disgusted by the way they treated women. Then later he had a counseling group of female prostitutes who talked about how easy it was to get men to empty their wallets for a few quick sexual tricks. Who are the victims and who are the exploiters? Always a good question.

Good point...but I would look at it like this. I've been married for 20 years. If I supported my spouse for 20 years I would think he would be greatful that he didn't have to work for 20 years. Not greedy and come after me for 20 more years of support

[Miss Tequila]

Jul 5, 2014 8:17:31 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jul 5, 2014 8:05:17 GMT -5 achelois said:

In the past, it was much more difficult for women NOT to be dependent on a man, but in the last forty years or so, that has, certainly, changed significantly. 

I agree  that is is foolish on both their parts, but especially the woman's. Dependency is severely limiting. As y'all know, I often say that it is much better to be in the position of paying the money than to need to receive it, just speaking from experience. 

My wife talks all the time about wanting to quit her job. I never talk about wanting to quit mine. Being the primary breadwinner is very limiting.

I make slightly more than my husband and I talk all the time about quitting. Difference is I would never do it until I have the assets in place to support me. I don't talk about quitting and making him support me.

[achelois]

Jul 5, 2014 8:17:31 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jul 5, 2014 8:05:17 GMT -5 achelois said:

In the past, it was much more difficult for women NOT to be dependent on a man, but in the last forty years or so, that has, certainly, changed significantly. 

I agree  that is is foolish on both their parts, but especially the woman's. Dependency is severely limiting. As y'all know, I often say that it is much better to be in the position of paying the money than to need to receive it, just speaking from experience. 

My wife talks all the time about wanting to quit her job. I never talk about wanting to quit mine. Being the primary breadwinner is very limiting.

You you wouldn't say that if you were in a bad marriage with kids, no money and no way out.  I have been the primary breadwinner, never talked of quitting my job and never felt it was severely limiting. 

Why don't you try being totally dependent sometime,  if you think it is less limiting than being the primary breadwinner. I have been in both positions.  There is a reason you do not see more men clamoring to be in the dependent one, DESPITE their bitching and moaning. 

[Miss Tequila]

Jul 5, 2014 8:30:52 GMT -5 achelois said:

Jul 5, 2014 8:17:31 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

My wife talks all the time about wanting to quit her job. I never talk about wanting to quit mine. Being the primary breadwinner is very limiting.

You you wouldn't say that if you were in a bad marriage with kids, no money and no way out.  I have been the primary breadwinner, never talked of quitting my job and never felt it was severely limiting. 

I would never be in a marriage would no money and no way out. I saw what it did to my mother (the no money part) and vowed to never make the same mistake

[billisonboard]

Jul 5, 2014 8:30:52 GMT -5 achelois said:

Jul 5, 2014 8:17:31 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

My wife talks all the time about wanting to quit her job. I never talk about wanting to quit mine. Being the primary breadwinner is very limiting.

You you wouldn't say that if you were in a bad marriage with kids, no money and no way out.  I have been the primary breadwinner, never talked of quitting my job and never felt it was severely limiting. 

I have been in a bad marriage with kids, making barely enough money for the four of us to survive, and realizing that divorce meant living in poverty.

[billisonboard]

Jul 5, 2014 8:30:52 GMT -5 achelois said:

Jul 5, 2014 8:17:31 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

My wife talks all the time about wanting to quit her job. I never talk about wanting to quit mine. Being the primary breadwinner is very limiting.

You you wouldn't say that if you were in a bad marriage with kids, no money and no way out.  I have been the primary breadwinner, never talked of quitting my job and never felt it was severely limiting. 

Why don't you try being totally dependent sometime,  if you think it is less limiting than being the primary breadwinner. I have been in both positions.  There is a reason you do not see more men clamoring to be in the dependent one, DESPITE their bitching and moaning. 

And there is a reason you see women clamoring to be the dependent one WITH their bitching and moaning.

Either position is limiting.

[achelois]

Jul 5, 2014 8:35:35 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Jul 5, 2014 8:30:52 GMT -5 achelois said:

You you wouldn't say that if you were in a bad marriage with kids, no money and no way out.  I have been the primary breadwinner, never talked of quitting my job and never felt it was severely limiting. 

I would never be in a marriage would no money and no way out. I saw what it did to my mother (the no money part) and vowed to never make the same mistake

Yes, when I was very young, back in the early seventies, I was in a marriage(not the one I spoke of above) and pregnant. I had a job, thank god, as I had also seen my mother's dependency, though it was a low paying one. 

When end my then-husband pushed me down steps when I was six months along, I left. I was homeless for a while, but shudder to think how much worse it would have been had I not had some money coming it. I swore I would make enough money myself to be able to live decently.  

[achelois]

Jul 5, 2014 8:42:50 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jul 5, 2014 8:30:52 GMT -5 achelois said:

You you wouldn't say that if you were in a bad marriage with kids, no money and no way out.  I have been the primary breadwinner, never talked of quitting my job and never felt it was severely limiting. 

Why don't you try being totally dependent sometime,  if you think it is less limiting than being the primary breadwinner. I have been in both positions.  There is a reason you do not see more men clamoring to be in the dependent one, DESPITE their bitching and moaning. 

And there is a reason you see women clamoring to be the dependent one WITH their bitching and moaning.

Either position is limiting.

I have not found it to be so. I am sorry you do. 

If you are in a bad situation, the only recommendation I can make is that you get out, pay what you have to pay and live how you have to live while re-building your life. 

I did  that, worked two jobs and many hours to rebuild. It was entirely worth it to me and have been very happy the last twenty years since the divorce despite having to start from scratch at age 42. 

But  it is your life.  You can be miserable or you can be happy. Your call. Victor Frankl said that a man who has a Why to live can bear with any How. 

[Miss Tequila]

Jul 5, 2014 8:42:50 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jul 5, 2014 8:30:52 GMT -5 achelois said:

You you wouldn't say that if you were in a bad marriage with kids, no money and no way out.  I have been the primary breadwinner, never talked of quitting my job and never felt it was severely limiting. 

Why don't you try being totally dependent sometime,  if you think it is less limiting than being the primary breadwinner. I have been in both positions.  There is a reason you do not see more men clamoring to be in the dependent one, DESPITE their bitching and moaning. 

And there is a reason you see women clamoring to be the dependent one WITH their bitching and moaning.

Either position is limiting.

I don't personally know any woman clamor ing to be dependent. But in real life most of my friends are fellow professionals. Out of all of my friends only one is actually a SAHM (and she has t worked in over 16 years). Her husband is very successful but when the economy tanked a few years ago he lost a significant amount of their assets and he was pressuring her to go back to work. Sadly, this once very competent CPA had outdated skills and couldn't find a job even with his connections. She loves her life (they are fairly wealthy) but she is the first to admit that in the event if divorce she is so screwed.


I think women "clamoring to be dependent" is an outdated and sexist view of women. I would be mortified if I couldn't support myself and had to rely on my husband if we were to divorce. If I walk I don't want a penny that I didn't personally earn.

[Miss Tequila]

Jul 5, 2014 8:45:37 GMT -5 achelois said:

Jul 5, 2014 8:35:35 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

I would never be in a marriage would no money and no way out. I saw what it did to my mother (the no money part) and vowed to never make the same mistake

Yes, when I was very young, back in the early seventies, I was in a marriage(not the one I spoke of above) and pregnant. I had a job, thank god, as I had also seen my mother's dependency, though it was a low paying one. 

When end my then-husband pushed me down steps when I was six months along, I left. I was homeless for a while, but shudder to think how much worse it would have been had I not had some money coming it. I swore I would make enough money myself to be able to live decently.  

Kudos to you for doing what you had to do to protect yourself and your baby.

[billisonboard]

Jul 5, 2014 8:45:37 GMT -5 achelois said:

... I swore I would make enough money myself to be able to live decently.

It is the rare male who goes through this process of deciding if they are or aren't going to make enough money themselves to be able to live decently. It is not an option for very many men in our society. No choice is a limitation.

[billisonboard]

Jul 5, 2014 8:50:57 GMT -5 achelois said:

Jul 5, 2014 8:42:50 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

And there is a reason you see women clamoring to be the dependent one WITH their bitching and moaning.

Either position is limiting.

I have not found it to be so. I am sorry you do. 

If you are in a bad situation, the only recommendation I can make is that you get out, pay what you have to pay and live how you have to live while re-building your life. 

I did  that, worked two jobs and many hours to rebuild. It was entirely worth it to me and have been very happy the last twenty years since the divorce despite having to start from scratch at age 42. 

But  it is your life.  You can be miserable or you can be happy. Your call. Victor Frankl said that a man who has a Why to live can bear with any How. 

I also made the choice to get out of that relationship and paid dearly for it.