nutty
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Post by nutty on Jul 3, 2014 10:45:36 GMT -5
Yes I need to pay quarterly taxes
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2014 11:00:45 GMT -5
Alimony is fine. The asset split isn't. You don't want the house. Why would you take that and be responsible to sell it? Tell him to keep it and pay you out.
Is the 25% of Retirement account 25% of the future value? Is he required to keep funding it? Is he prevented from making any withdrawals from it? I'm sure you are giving us the abbreviated version of it, but if there are no rules around keeping the value intact you could find that there is nothing there in 23 years! If it is 25% of current value, then no that is a bad deal for you and completely unfair.
I would take 75-100% of current 401K in an immediate QDRO and 100% of home sale profit (assuming there is some) due to your inability to earn at the same level as him. Then call it done. You have your money guaranteed and in your possession and he can move on with his own.
23 years is a figure that gets you to current SS early retirement age? If that is the intention be sure the agreement says that & if SS shifts retirement age out that your alimony shifts by the same time-frame.
Terminating alimony if you cohabitate with an SO is fine and normal. You would be foolish to make an issue of that. Yes, you give up alimony if you cohabitate or marry. 50K household income? Be sure you EXCLUDE income of children in the event they have to move back in with you at any point as a temporary measure. What if you take in a renter because you can't afford housing or he stops paying alimony. You need a provision that this condition is waived IF he stops paying alimony because you might need to get in a renter.
Not enough details to understand if this is an appropriate financial arrangement or not. Hopefully you spend a little more time on it and have correct and detailed information. 25% of current 401K would be an absolute no-go for me.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 3, 2014 11:01:45 GMT -5
Good thought.
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achelois
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Post by achelois on Jul 3, 2014 11:28:33 GMT -5
Don't keep the house.
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spartan7886
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Post by spartan7886 on Jul 3, 2014 12:40:20 GMT -5
With 23 years of alimony, if you end up with the income limit of $50k, I'd fight to make sure it's inflation protected. $50k 23 years from now will be worth about half what it is now.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jul 3, 2014 12:51:31 GMT -5
I truly wish you luck but would be stunned in this day and age if his lawyer or judge would agree to alimony for a period of time that is just as long as the marriage.
Even then, divorce decrees can be changed. I know it's been said many times, but do not count on alimony as your means of support.
I also can't understand how, if he makes such good money, you are going through chapter 13? If it's due to a job loss, then if it happened before, it can happen again.
How are you planning on supporting your self on a prospective basis?
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nutty
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Post by nutty on Jul 3, 2014 13:11:41 GMT -5
I have said this before and I am pretty sure I have said this to you Captain, I lost my income therefore the chap 13 AT THE TIME, you have harped on this before get over it. It is a legal way of doing business and was 90 % to get rid of the second mortgage, the house was underwater as was many. If he agrees to it then the judge shouldn't have a problem.
AGAIN HE MAKES MORE MONEY NOW, the CHAP 13 WAS A FEW YRS AGO. Don't worry about what I am going to do, I would just like to know info like Lily has gracioulsy provided, no coulda should woulda I KNOW ALL THIS.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jul 3, 2014 13:36:17 GMT -5
I'm not trying to do a shoulda whatever.
However you have never, that I recall, responded to my question as to how do you plan to support yourself, if you have and I've missed it, a quick link or refresher would be honestly appreciated.
You back story has changed from being unable to work because of a disability, to both of you deciding for you to stay home so he could focus on his career, to just now you lost your income (job?) so I'm not sure (not that the past matters at this point) what the real story is. At one point you stated you would be able to qualify for disability but did not have enough work quarters to qualify so now I'm really confused. I think you also mentioned getting a job closer to friends in FL at one point, how is that coming along?
You come on here to vent and ask for advice, but only want to listen to what you seem to want to hear. Never mind that I've seen (and other's have cautioned) situations like this in action.
You will not get alimony until you collect social security, it just isn't going to happen. At some point DH will get over any sense of responsibility to you and he will go for a change. I've seen this happen and am honestly trying to help.
You are younger than am I, and yet you still don't have a plan to support yourself other than relying on someone else for the rest of your life?
So other than advice on how to get as much as you can out of your ex, what other advice do you desire?
How many people who don't worry about what they're going to do end up with a plan to accomplish what needs to be done?
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nutty
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Post by nutty on Jul 3, 2014 13:38:42 GMT -5
You have no idea of what my plans are AT ALL you are just assuming. Stop assuming.
and yet you still don't have a plan to support yourself other than relying on someone else for the rest of your life?
Not sure where you get this from. Just because I dont speak about it, it is not pertinent to this thread.
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nutty
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Post by nutty on Jul 3, 2014 13:40:10 GMT -5
How very, very offensive you are. Pretty shitty thing to say and assume, you dont know me.
I believe I asked for advice on making sure I dont miss anything nothing at all about "trying to get everything I can out of him" YOU DONT KNOW ME OR HIM and that is pretty offensive to both of us.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Jul 3, 2014 13:48:08 GMT -5
I have said this before and I am pretty sure I have said this to you Captain, I lost my income therefore the chap 13 AT THE TIME, you have harped on this before get over it. It is a legal way of doing business and was 90 % to get rid of the second mortgage, the house was underwater as was many. If he agrees to it then the judge shouldn't have a problem. AGAIN HE MAKES MORE MONEY NOW, the CHAP 13 WAS A FEW YRS AGO. Don't worry about what I am going to do, I would just like to know info like Lily has gracioulsy provided, no coulda should woulda I KNOW ALL THIS. Naggie, Captain's question is a good one. What if your STBX just up and leaves town, minus a forwarding address? Or loses his job? Or goes to court and gets the decree changed by a sympathetic judge? Or you find out that living on what you are getting does not and will not keep up with the cost of living index? You are either sitting on the edge of a pretty rainbow-colored world, or you just don't want to see what many people on this board already have, thanks to some BTDT experiences. You can have the proverbial rug pulled out from under you at any second. No one is suggesting you don't deserve some "Me, me, me" time. But building a self-sustaining life long-term has to come first. Your response reminds me of a former poster, who read only what she wanted to read and either ignored or dissed the rest, only to keep coming back with similar issues over and over. Start building a definitive life by making a plan. Pretend you are getting little or nothing financially out of the divorce. Find a job, anything that's even entry-level, and live on that money, while banking as much as you can from whatever settlement you get. Really. No using your divorce money for anything fun, cool or because you "deserve" it. You are just not in that place right now. I realize your marriage might not have been great, but taking any money and heading out to woohoo-ville just isn't a smart move. No spoiling the grandbaby (yeah, sorry...I'm a hardass about this, but her parents can do that. You cannot spare it) unless you have money left after the bills are paid. Your STBX is not going to cover your phone, electric, cable, etc. forever. Even with a decree in hand, he could stop paying them and then what will you do? You'd have to take the time and pay the money to take him back to court. Naggie, you may be free, but freedom isn't cheap, as you will find out. And if you think marriage was complicated, the single life isn't much simpler, especially when you don't have your own funds.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jul 3, 2014 13:50:09 GMT -5
Nutty - just once have you said anything about how you plan to support yourself? Seriously, where did I miss it?
No?
Yet you've posted numerouse times about how much you plan to get from him, how you want to be able to have him pay you alimony for as long as you've been married yet cohabitate with someone else (in this very thread) and laud other posters when they suggest you go after all of his retirement savings and not evenleave half for him.
Now, how am I offensive again? Or is that because you don't like what I've posted?
Based on what you've posted here you have physically assulted you husband in a way that would have earned you a criminal charge had he not been more decent about it, talked a few times about booty calls, hooking up with old boyfriends, and changed your past history for not working. This is what you - supposedly the sympathetic victim has posted about herself.
I can only base some of my assumptions based on the information you've provided. Based on the above, what assumptions do you think I should make?
ETA - want to point out Nutty changed her post after I started replying to it.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Jul 3, 2014 13:52:16 GMT -5
I like Lily's advice.
I also would encourage you to develop a plan if you haven't already.
Good luck!
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 3, 2014 13:52:53 GMT -5
Captain has a point, Nutty. It is the same point that I alluded to as well.
You have mentioned what you think you are getting. But what are you doing right now to make it so that you are not so dependent upon alimony? Have you done anything in the last few months to research educating yourself so you can get yourself back in the workplace? AT 40, you have a good 25 years and if you take a couple to get some sort of training, that is still 23 years that YOU can be less dependent upon alimony.
A lot can happen in 23 years. If your husband winds up in a car accident and is disabled, he will not be receiving the salary he has now. He will have a certain percentage of his income and be unable to work. As he will still be alive, you won't receive his life insurance policy. I guarantee you that 25% of his disability income will not be enough for you to live the life of leisure on and you might lose your alimony altogether.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2014 14:13:58 GMT -5
Nutty, we had no money and a lot of debt when we divorced. The house payment was no more than rent would be for me because we had purchased it 20 years earlier, but I couldn't afford the utilities ($300 a month levelized billing back in 1997!) and maintenance. Don't get stuck with the house! You said yourself that it was underwater not long ago. It probably still is when you factor in real estate commission.
My ex and I worked out agreement between ourselves. We got a second mortgage to payoff the debts. Then I received my half of the value of the house (minus the mortgages) in the form of QDRO $$$. It wasn't entirely fair since I will have to pay taxes on it someday, but it was the best we could do.
You will be eligible for COBRA. Ask him to pay for 6 months for you or until you get a job that includes health insurance. That will give you a little time.
I can't imagine 23 years of alimony working out well.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 3, 2014 14:35:23 GMT -5
If DF retires the alimony stops to his ex.
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Jul 3, 2014 15:01:10 GMT -5
If you work, is there an amount at which your alimony would top out, depending on what you made ? I thought I saw reference to $ 50,000 in some of the posts, but I didn't see that in what you listed.
When I was 45, my alimony was $ 1000 per month, lasted for five years ( not longer ), I had to pay the taxes on it, and I had to pay for our daughter's health insurance premium. We sold the marital home at a profit when we found a buyer, and used the proceeds to pay off any marital debts that we had. We agreed to leave each other's retirements intact. ( I realize that that is not a possibility in your case ). I had five years to get a better job.
I think that you are getting a very good offer from your husband. For what it's worth, I understood that I had had a generous offer for our area. We split what was in the bank accounts, and each kept our own cars, which were roughly equal in value.
Our daughter turned 18 before the divorce was finalized, so there was no child support.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jul 3, 2014 15:05:32 GMT -5
Who is/will be on the mortgage? In other words will he be paying and you each get half of the profit? or will you? and by what time does the house have to be put on the market? You don't want to be paying for the next 20 years and then have him come for half the profit if you sell at that time. Nor will he want to do that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2014 17:55:03 GMT -5
I'd get whatever kind of settlement you can get now. This taking 25% of retirement in 20 years and selling the house later is BS. So much could happen in that time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2014 18:40:35 GMT -5
Since they were married for so long, will she not get part of whatever his SS is when he retires? Seems like I remember there being a magic number for the years of marriage, but I could be wrong.
Someone mentioned it, but I want to reiterate it. Any creditors you 2 have, won't care about a divorce decree. Whatever he agrees to pay in the divorce decree, if he doesn't pay it at any point and your name is on it, you are fair game for trying to get their money. I was a SAHM, but I had good credit and most of the bills were in my name. My ex took the car when we split, and he was suppose to make the payment. It just so happened that the first job I took was at the bank that financed the car and the loan was in my name. He stopped paying, which wasn't a good look at my job, so I "stole" the car from him, put a bar on the steering wheel so he couldn't steal it back, and caught the payments up. He didn't fight me about it. We also had another loan in my name and a cell phone bill. He agreed to continue paying them in our divorce decree. He didn't pay and I had to deal with them, not him. The divorce decree was an agreement between him and me, not me and the creditors. I had to pay up or wreck my credit and get sued or whatever they were going to do. He didn't pay ANYTHING he agreed to in the divorce decree, including some stuff for our kids. I could have taken him back to court, but I chose to pay what needed to be paid and kept it moving.
Unless something has changed since then, I know how that works.
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nutty
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Post by nutty on Jul 3, 2014 18:48:13 GMT -5
Yeah I am going to try to up that figure, some one mentioned inflation. I have been married 23 years. Apparently the chap 13 can continue even with us being divorced. I am not so sure about that though. We will go in for a meeting. 23 years will get me too 63. I have no doubt (at this point) he will continue to save for retirement, I wonder if I can have something like him being made to in the decree. Also that I think that I will ask for all the retirement accounts. I estimate, that over the next 20 odd years my max earning could MAYBE top 40k.
Yeah the 50k seemingly is the max out. So if I make 25k his alimony responsibility will be 25k, as others have said it sounds pretty standard. Kind of annoying because if he marries then their household income should be included. I get it I get it, but it should work both ways, if his new wife says screw that, why can't my new husband say screw that too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2014 18:49:24 GMT -5
Since they were married for so long, will she not get part of whatever his SS is when he retires? Seems like I remember there being a magic number for the years of marriage, but I could be wrong. You have to be married 10 years before you divorce so she will qualify. She will get half of what he would draw. When he dies, she will get 100% of what he would draw.
If he remarries, his new spouse would get the same.
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nutty
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Post by nutty on Jul 3, 2014 18:50:06 GMT -5
Yep, my goal is to get my AA, I will have to start at a bobo job but I have no doubt in my abilities but it wont be instaneous. I have been blindsided, luckily he and I (mainly him) are being very amiable, and he understands my struggles. Not that I am asking him to support me forever but he is trying to help me, and I commend him for that.
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nutty
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Post by nutty on Jul 3, 2014 18:52:44 GMT -5
BTW he IS a good guy, and I am a good person, we grew apart apparently to him. Ok we need to move on. He understands the sacrifices I made, I understand that he is a great provider. Lets not make this about him vs me, no matter what crap I have posted here. It was me venting, he is a good guy, seriously.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2014 18:58:23 GMT -5
Yeah the 50k seemingly is the max out. So if I make 25k his alimony responsibility will be 25k, as others have said it sounds pretty standard. Kind of annoying because if he marries then their household income should be included. I get it I get it, but it should work both ways, if his new wife says screw that, why can't my new husband say screw that too. Actually, what others have been saying is that it is pretty standard that alimony ceases if you cohabitate with someone.
I think you could fight the ceiling or have it indexed for inflation . . . assuming it is just you. I don't think, though, that you will collect for the full 23 years so it probably doesn't matter.
Yes, go for the retirement accounts now. However, I'm not sure that 100% is fair unless you are giving up something like your share of the house. He also deserves to have something to show for those years.
I know you are hurt, but be fair. You can start over at 41. Plenty of women have done it. I started over at 45. We had cashed in my retirement and spent the small inheritance I had received. But I am a grown-up, fully capable of supporting myself.
Ironically, my life is better in every sense, including financially, since the divorce. I had a low-paying job, no retirement, and didn't even have my name on the title to my own car. I now have a decent income, a decent retirement, and my name on the title to two paid-for cars and a house.
You can do this if you don't agree to play the victim. I'm not saying that you shouldn't get your fair share. I'm not saying that he shouldn't have to help you restart your life. But you are ultimately responsible for yourself.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2014 18:59:27 GMT -5
Yeah the 50k seemingly is the max out. So if I make 25k his alimony responsibility will be 25k, as others have said it sounds pretty standard. Kind of annoying because if he marries then their household income should be included. I get it I get it, but it should work both ways, if his new wife says screw that, why can't my new husband say screw that too. Because alimony is about making sure you're provided for, because you may not be able to on your own, it's not a lottery winning that you just get a straight cut of everything his household brings in forever. If you remarry and there is enough money, then his obligation should end. I would really worry about any long term payments from him though. Man, I've only been divorced from my first ex for 9 years and so much has changed in his life since then. He's remarried, has another daughter, is considering going into teaching at the university instead of his high dollar job (yikes), and is having health problems that may force him to quit working altogether, (he's only 51).
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nutty
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Post by nutty on Jul 3, 2014 18:59:35 GMT -5
I know I know, he isn't going to do all that for me. He is being great, single life is dicey. Someone told me on here to say "we had a good run" and that is what I am trying to do, as I start crying.
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nutty
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Post by nutty on Jul 3, 2014 19:02:13 GMT -5
I can only do what I can do with the info I have right now. I have always looked to the future, honestly y'all that is my motto, I know the downfalls, do not worry about me in that respect. I have a lot more that I keep in my mind and notes than I post here. I am very sorry that I can't post everything and there are a lot of questions, I understand that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2014 19:05:18 GMT -5
Yeah the 50k seemingly is the max out. So if I make 25k his alimony responsibility will be 25k, as others have said it sounds pretty standard. Kind of annoying because if he marries then their household income should be included. I get it I get it, but it should work both ways, if his new wife says screw that, why can't my new husband say screw that too.
Get that out of your head. If he remarries, his wife's income has nothing to do with you or the past. I might be wrong, but I thought the point of alimony was to give the ex-spouse some time to transition. Women that divorce multi-millionaires can maybe end up set for life regardless of who they live with or remarry because they can get more money at the time of divorce or huge alimony payments that can go a long way if they're careful, but it doesn't usually work that way for the average person. I'm divorced and I don't think it's unfair that alimony can stop if the person receiving it cohabitates or remarries.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Jul 3, 2014 19:05:33 GMT -5
How do you decide what to post and what not to? I'm not suggesting you post your full decree, but answering how you plan to support yourself would probably give you a lot of good feedback. It's impossible for us to focus on the future when we really don't know what your future plan is.
Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards
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