thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 15, 2014 19:33:57 GMT -5
I have a friend who is divorced and has a young child (preschool.) Her ex-husband is a very involved father. I think the reason they divorced was that they did not agree on what was best or appropriate for their child, and guess what - the divorce didn't change that. Her stance is that she has to put her foot down and demand the Dad comply to her way of thinking. My stance is that he is going to do whatever he wants when he has the kid, because he always does whatever he wants, therefore she was making unnecessary strife. (Easy for me to say, as it isn't my kid.) The particular issue at hand is dealing with the new boyfriends and girlfriends of the parents - involvement, sleeping arrangements, etc.
Has anyone successfully co-parented with an ex that is probably a good parent, but has a completely different style and moral code than you do? Any advice?
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on May 15, 2014 19:38:14 GMT -5
Hmm. No, we do not successfully co-parent. I parent. He is not often involved. He, for the most part, does what I prefer as parenting philosophy. We haven't had a big enough disagreement yet for me to have approach coming with a solution in a compromise sense.
We did have to go through informal mediation through the DFS office when we moved to agree on a new parenting plan.
Has your friend gone through the informal mediation process for any of these disagreements?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 15, 2014 20:06:43 GMT -5
I think that was the way she was heading, but it will be a fight to get the ex- there.
I'm not sure "the law" (or the state or whatever) would be on her side.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2014 20:09:27 GMT -5
I'm guessing unless he wants something dangerous, it's not likely to go all her way...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2014 20:41:17 GMT -5
She's going to drive herself crazy. She can't make him parent the way she wants him to any more than he can control how she does. I think the only thing she can do is let the kid know this is the rules in her house and they may differ from the ones at Dad's, but that's ok.
My ex and I are pretty much on the same page, but there are things he does that I don't. He lets our son have a lot more screen time and they stay up late. There's also little to no cleaning that goes on in that house...it's pretty disgusting (and he's remarried!), while I'm always riding the kids to pick up clean up after themselves. But on the other hand, there are things he does that are great. He's always involving him in home improvement projects, is a den leader, takes him fishing and camping all the time.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 15, 2014 20:49:25 GMT -5
I'm guessing unless he wants something dangerous, it's not likely to go all her way... That is what I told her. I said unless she could go in with a little proof that her kid was harmed in some way, she wouldn't get anywhere. I asked her if he was acting weird, or getting in trouble at school, or crying a lot, or complaining about his stomach or anything. She danced around that - because we both know the answer was "no." I told her to keep an eye on it and document everything (just make a note on your calendar.) If there was a pattern - then get worked up. She still believes that the long term harm exists - but I don't think that feeling will get her anywhere. Glad to hear I'm not the only one that believes she needs a different approach. She said "Every single person I have talked to agrees with me." I didn't have the heart to tell her that we all said we agreed with her because she was flipping out and arguing with her wasn't going to help - so we were smile and nod, say "Yes, yes" and let her vent. But, I did tell her that she needed to find a different way to deal with her ex, because flipping out, yelling, demanding an apology, demanding he change his ways - that shit won't fly with him. It didn't work when they were married - I'm not sure why she thinks it will work now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2014 20:57:38 GMT -5
What is he doing?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 15, 2014 21:24:47 GMT -5
Spending the night with his girlfriend - sometimes at his place, sometimes at hers - with the kid tagging along. They are talking about her moving into his house, but they have only been dating 2 months, so my friend is worried it will be a string of girlfriends moving into and out of the house - breaking her kid's heart each time. Reasonable fear, but what can she do.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2014 21:27:53 GMT -5
Nothing. He's allowed to have a life. I personally wouldn't move that fast with a kid, but it's nothing a judge is going to stop him from doing unless the girl is a sex offender or something...
Any chance he was seeing the girl before the breakup?
Any chance this is more about the ex moving on?
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on May 15, 2014 21:33:04 GMT -5
If this was so important to the ex-wife, why didn't she have a morality clause put in the custody agreement? If DH and I ever divorce, I'm insisting on one. (Morality clause says no over night guests of the opposite sex whilst the children are spending the night unless they are married or blood relatives..) I thought that was fairly common in divorces..
But, I also have no intention of dating to find a new partner while my children are in the house. And, should I enter into a friends with benefits agreement with someone, I'd like to think I can wait a few days in between getting laid. I'm not 15 anymore.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2014 21:39:25 GMT -5
If this was so important to the ex-wife, why didn't she have a morality clause put in the custody agreement? If DH and I ever divorce, I'm insisting on one. (Morality clause says no over night guests of the opposite sex whilst the children are spending the night unless they are married or blood relatives..) I thought that was fairly common in divorces..
But, I also have no intention of dating to find a new partner while my children are in the house. And, should I enter into a friends with benefits agreement with someone, I'd like to think I can wait a few days in between getting laid. I'm not 15 anymore. I've never even heard of it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2014 21:40:01 GMT -5
I don't think they are very common, and would seem fraught with enforceability issues. And they could just get married, which I'd think one would rather they not rush into either...
Sorry, but divorce with kids can suck. It's just true.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on May 15, 2014 21:47:21 GMT -5
If this was so important to the ex-wife, why didn't she have a morality clause put in the custody agreement? If DH and I ever divorce, I'm insisting on one. (Morality clause says no over night guests of the opposite sex whilst the children are spending the night unless they are married or blood relatives..) I thought that was fairly common in divorces..
But, I also have no intention of dating to find a new partner while my children are in the house. And, should I enter into a friends with benefits agreement with someone, I'd like to think I can wait a few days in between getting laid. I'm not 15 anymore. I've never even heard of it. I've spent way too much time on infidelity/divorce boards for a while. It comes up fairly often. But, I like to educate myself as best as I can. Knowledge is power in any situation, and I'm fortunate enough that I can have time to really mull over what I want and what I don't want in a divorce.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on May 15, 2014 22:12:37 GMT -5
If my husband and I ever to divorce, I hope it happens after the kids are grown or one of us would kill each other over parenting issues.
We don't always see eye to eye now and it's not that easy to agree on things while we love each other and are a family. I can't even imagine what would happen if we were divorced.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on May 15, 2014 22:44:06 GMT -5
Is this morality clause a bible belt phenomenon? Just being curious, no judgement.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on May 15, 2014 22:56:43 GMT -5
No, nobody can successfully co-parent with someone who has different goals and morals once they are divorce. To the op, if she wanted to control the parenting, she should have stayed married. Yes, it will be hard on the child with moving in and out and girlfriends coming and going but there's not going to be anything she can do about it other than picking up the pieces and damage control. I thought most states stopped doing morality clauses. H's ex tried to keep me away from their kids. Because, you know, that nice woman that has a great education and great job and works hard and cares about her kids is a threat to her children. But whatever. They ended up in court a few times and the judge threw it out each time. She finally gave up.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 16, 2014 4:43:50 GMT -5
No, the morality clause is not just a Bible Belt thing. It's in Michigan as well as Florida.
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mamasita99
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Post by mamasita99 on May 16, 2014 4:44:37 GMT -5
I co-parent, and yes, it can get tricky. But as long as my kids aren't getting harmed in some way, there is little I can do. There are so many ways to become angry and bitter while co-parenting, you must learn to let go where you can. I tell my kids that there might be daddy rules when you are over there, but over here we follow our rules. They get that. Fortunately they spend most of the time with me I think the kids will benefit more over having cooperative parents who might have questionable rules over an angry parent who is always in court or lashing out at the other.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 6:35:25 GMT -5
Spending the night with his girlfriend - sometimes at his place, sometimes at hers - with the kid tagging along. They are talking about her moving into his house, but they have only been dating 2 months, so my friend is worried it will be a string of girlfriends moving into and out of the house - breaking her kid's heart each time. Reasonable fear, but what can she do. my separation agreement/divorce decree stated that he was to have no overnight guests of the opposite sex while he had the kids.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on May 16, 2014 7:18:29 GMT -5
Spending the night with his girlfriend - sometimes at his place, sometimes at hers - with the kid tagging along. They are talking about her moving into his house, but they have only been dating 2 months, so my friend is worried it will be a string of girlfriends moving into and out of the house - breaking her kid's heart each time. Reasonable fear, but what can she do. my separation agreement/divorce decree stated that he was to have no overnight guests of the opposite sex while he had the kids. I am pretty open minded about most things, but I think this is a good clause to have. And insist on that at least until it was a serious long-term (more than 2 month) relationship. And I would especially object to the sleepovers at the gf house.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 7:26:42 GMT -5
Then they just get married. Seems like worse problems then.
Some men just can't be alone.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 16, 2014 7:35:37 GMT -5
She's SOL. She couldn't control him when they were married, so no reason to control him now. As long as the kids aren't hurt, she's gotta suck it up.
She chose to have kids with him, so she can't complain now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 7:35:45 GMT -5
No overnight guests of the opposite sex seems stupid to me. For one thing, it doesn't have to be a sex partner. I have opposite sex friends that are truly just friends and a couple have <gasp> crashed in my guest room or on the couch sometimes for various reasons. Usually because they traveled quite a way to my house for a gathering of some kind and it was either late or they'd had too much to drink while there. Plus, what about same sex partners? That's totally cool? I'm starting to think I'd rather have a wife than a husband anyhow.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 7:36:46 GMT -5
my separation agreement/divorce decree stated that he was to have no overnight guests of the opposite sex while he had the kids. I am pretty open minded about most things, but I think this is a good clause to have. And insist on that at least until it was a serious long-term (more than 2 month) relationship. And I would especially object to the sleepovers at the gf house. well in my case, the clause only applied to him, not to me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 7:40:36 GMT -5
So a one way morality clause? Good luck enforcing that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 7:42:34 GMT -5
So a one way morality clause? Good luck enforcing that. huh? my divorce decree was signed 12 years ago. and how could he enforce my having someone staying over if there was nothing in the divorce decree to state I couldn't? not really my fault he was too stupid to get a lawyer to look it over and just had it signed and notarized. I also had a clause in there that I could withhold visitation or require supervised visitation if he didn't stay sober. Judge had no problem signing off on it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 7:44:47 GMT -5
So a one way morality clause? Good luck enforcing that. huh? my divorce decree was signed 12 years ago. and how could he enforce my having someone staying over if there was nothing in the divorce decree to state I couldn't? not really my fault he was too stupid to get a lawyer to look it over and just had it signed and notarized. I also had a clause in there that I could withhold visitation or require supervised visitation if he didn't stay sober. Judge had no problem signing off on it. I think oped meant you enforcing it if he had overnight guests.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 7:44:49 GMT -5
I'm saying if he had chosen to have someone stay over, just because you had that clause wouldn't have done anything... He wold not have been held to it, it would not have been enforceable.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 7:45:35 GMT -5
Maybe her ex doesn't know that it's bad for kids to have a revolving stream of women coming in and out of their lives.
Maybe he needs to be told that he's going to hurt his kid every time he breaks up with a GF and it's better for his kid to not have contact with GF's unless they're serious ones.
And then tell him it won't kill him to keep it in his pants 4 days out of the month! His children should be his top priority when he has custody, anyway.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 7:46:57 GMT -5
No overnight guests of the opposite sex seems stupid to me. For one thing, it doesn't have to be a sex partner. I have opposite sex friends that are truly just friends and a couple have <gasp> crashed in my guest room or on the couch sometimes for various reasons. Usually because they traveled quite a way to my house for a gathering of some kind and it was either late or they'd had too much to drink while there. Plus, what about same sex partners? That's totally cool? I'm starting to think I'd rather have a wife than a husband anyhow. You aren't going to break up with your friend and then have your kid wondering if it was something they did that made them go away.
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