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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 7:46:58 GMT -5
I'm saying if he had chosen to have someone stay over, just because you had that clause wouldn't have done anything... He wold not have been held to it, it would not have been enforceable. sure it would have....I would have withheld visitation
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 7:48:44 GMT -5
I would like to think that my husband would care enough about my kids' well-being to not introduce them to flings. His midlife crisis should be right around the corner so we'll see if he turns into a douchecanoe or not.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 7:50:31 GMT -5
The OP said the dad is a very involved dad. There is no indication he's a 4 day a month dad...
As ive said, I wouldn't introduce or advocate introducing a girl/boyfriend that early. But they are talking about moving in together. This isn't a fling at that point. We also don't know that they have only been seeing each other two months.
Kids are resilient, as someone said, revolving girlfriends is less likely to have long term impact than crazy, constantly bitter and screaming parents.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 7:52:01 GMT -5
No overnight guests of the opposite sex seems stupid to me. For one thing, it doesn't have to be a sex partner. I have opposite sex friends that are truly just friends and a couple have <gasp> crashed in my guest room or on the couch sometimes for various reasons. Usually because they traveled quite a way to my house for a gathering of some kind and it was either late or they'd had too much to drink while there. Plus, what about same sex partners? That's totally cool? I'm starting to think I'd rather have a wife than a husband anyhow. You aren't going to break up with your friend and then have your kid wondering if it was something they did that made them go away. No. I'm not. But I'm objecting to a court order restricting all my overnight guests based on whether or not they have a penis. I can handle my own morality.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 7:53:04 GMT -5
I'm saying if he had chosen to have someone stay over, just because you had that clause wouldn't have done anything... He wold not have been held to it, it would not have been enforceable. sure it would have....I would have withheld visitation Sigh. If he had taken you to court for witholding visitation based on a one way morality clause, unless something else was going on, he would have prevailed. You can write anything you want, but whether or not it is enforceable, by law, is a different story.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on May 16, 2014 7:54:35 GMT -5
No overnight guests of the opposite sex seems stupid to me. For one thing, it doesn't have to be a sex partner. I have opposite sex friends that are truly just friends and a couple have <gasp> crashed in my guest room or on the couch sometimes for various reasons. Usually because they traveled quite a way to my house for a gathering of some kind and it was either late or they'd had too much to drink while there. Plus, what about same sex partners? That's totally cool? I'm starting to think I'd rather have a wife than a husband anyhow. You aren't going to break up with your friend and then have your kid wondering if it was something they did that made them go away. I saw something (Dear Prudence maybe?) about a couple of women who are divorced but moved in together to cut costs and coparent. They're wondering about domestic partner stuff even though they're not romantically involved.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 7:56:03 GMT -5
As a recent graduate of parenting through divorce classes (for the second time). All the studies show (and no I don't have any links right now) that the single best indicator of how well kids will do is how well their parents get along. This holds true whether they are divorced or married. Not saying you have to like each other, but at least be civil and not make it a war.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 8:00:29 GMT -5
You aren't going to break up with your friend and then have your kid wondering if it was something they did that made them go away. I saw something (Dear Prudence maybe?) about a couple of women who are divorced but moved in together to cut costs and coparent. They're wondering about domestic partner stuff even though they're not romantically involved. Single moms moving in together is kind of a neat idea. I work a couple cubes down from a woman with two young kids that moved in with another girl also with two kids. They work different shifts and each only have a little daycare expense. They share all the housing expenses and are able to afford a much nicer place than they would alone. If a kid gets sick either one will pick them up from school, they take turns making dinner, share the housework. It almost sounds better than a marriage. LOL
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 8:00:57 GMT -5
sure it would have....I would have withheld visitation Sigh. If he had taken you to court for witholding visitation based on a one way morality clause, unless something else was going on, he would have prevailed. You can write anything you want, but whether or not it is enforceable, by law, is a different story. well as I said, I had a legal document that the judge had no problem signing off on.....not sure how you can go to court and complain about something that you agreed to. also, since he up and moved 4 hours away, I was under no obligation to allow him visitation under the current agreement - he would have had to go back to court to get it amended - hard to do when you're unemployed or in rehab.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on May 16, 2014 8:01:50 GMT -5
I don't honestly know how civil I could be to DH if we got divorced. That said, I'm usually not bad at keeping my mouth shut when it's important. So I'd hope that I'd save the bitching for my friends, family and/or therapist.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 8:02:03 GMT -5
As a recent graduate of parenting through divorce classes (for the second time). All the studies show (and no I don't have any links right now) that the single best indicator of how well kids will do is how well their parents get along. This holds true whether they are divorced or married. Not saying you have to like each other, but at least be civil and not make it a war. well my kids are screwed since they have barely seen their father in the past 13 years....DD hasn't seen him since december 2012.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 8:07:30 GMT -5
Then I guess your situation is nothing like the OP friend, who has a very involved father.
I also think you were lucky your husband stayed stupid, because you certainly can fight to change something you signed if it is not fair. And if you look up morality clauses you will see they are very difficult to legally enforce.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 8:07:44 GMT -5
As a recent graduate of parenting through divorce classes (for the second time). All the studies show (and no I don't have any links right now) that the single best indicator of how well kids will do is how well their parents get along. This holds true whether they are divorced or married. Not saying you have to like each other, but at least be civil and not make it a war. well my kids are screwed since they have barely seen their father in the past 13 years....DD hasn't seen him since december 2012. Where did I say they have to see their parent all the time? Now, if the past 13 years you've been degrading him, then yeah maybe. I saw my Dad once a year on Christmas Eve until I was about 12, then I only saw him a handful of times until I was about 30. But, I don't recall my Mom ever once saying a bad word about him my entire life. Now he's a huge part of my life and my kid's. He lives 2 hours away and I see him at least once a month, if not more and it's been that way for the past 15 years.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 8:10:29 GMT -5
well my kids are screwed since they have barely seen their father in the past 13 years....DD hasn't seen him since december 2012. Where did I say they have to see their parent all the time? Now, if the past 13 years you've been degrading him, then yeah maybe. I saw my Dad once a year on Christmas Eve until I was about 12, then I only saw him a handful of times until I was about 30. But, I don't recall my Mom ever once saying a bad word about him my entire life. Now he's a huge part of my life and my kid's. He lives 2 hours away and I see him at least once a month, if not more and it's been that way for the past 15 years. I haven't had to degrade him....they've seen for themselves what he is. and he's the one who told them that I took all his money and I did this and I did that....
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 8:13:30 GMT -5
Where did I say they have to see their parent all the time? Now, if the past 13 years you've been degrading him, then yeah maybe. I saw my Dad once a year on Christmas Eve until I was about 12, then I only saw him a handful of times until I was about 30. But, I don't recall my Mom ever once saying a bad word about him my entire life. Now he's a huge part of my life and my kid's. He lives 2 hours away and I see him at least once a month, if not more and it's been that way for the past 15 years. I haven't had to degrade him....they've seen for themselves what he is. and he's the one who told them that I took all his money and I did this and I did that.... And that's the way it should be (not having a bad parent, but the kids seeing for themselves and making their own judgements). It can be really, really hard to not point stuff out though.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 8:25:59 GMT -5
Is this morality clause a bible belt phenomenon? Just being curious, no judgement. I've seen it in California, so no.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 8:31:09 GMT -5
The OP said the dad is a very involved dad. There is no indication he's a 4 day a month dad... As ive said, I wouldn't introduce or advocate introducing a girl/boyfriend that early. But they are talking about moving in together. This isn't a fling at that point. We also don't know that they have only been seeing each other two months. Kids are resilient, as someone said, revolving girlfriends is less likely to have long term impact than crazy, constantly bitter and screaming parents. Whether he's a 4 day or a 20 day Dad, he is the adult in the relationship and he should have enough self-control to do what's best for his kid.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 8:35:25 GMT -5
Like not get involved with anyone until his kid is 18? ... It's just not realistic.
There is also nothing inherently bad about having more adults involved in your life.
Ultimately the mom's time is better spent nd interning relationships rather than trying to control ex. Honestly, her behavior doesn't sound like its in the best interest of the child either..l
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Post by 973beachbum on May 16, 2014 8:36:48 GMT -5
Is this morality clause a bible belt phenomenon? Just being curious, no judgement. I've seen it in California, so no. You can put anything in a contract you want. That doesn't mean it is enforceable. I know one person who put this in their divorce settlement. Everything was fine until he got a girlfriend. Then he refused to abide by it and off to court they went. She was told that the court was not about to get into who could do what with whom unless it was an actual danger to the children. She was also told that if she with held visitation she would be held in contempt of court. Maybe swamp or midjd can weigh in on whether this is normal or just local laws.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 8:40:11 GMT -5
Like not get involved with anyone until his kid is 18? ... It's just not realistic. How about like waiting until it's not your weekend with your kids? I don't think it's too much to ask, but I'm not divorced so who knows how horny I will be once I unleash my MILFness on the world.
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Post by sheilaincali on May 16, 2014 8:44:12 GMT -5
My brother tried the whole "you can't have your bf around my kids tactic" and the judge basically laughed at him. Told him that he had absolutely no right to dictate who his wife could introduce the kids to. So long as the man in question was not a danger to the kids than DBro had to keep his mouth shut.
My brother was a total asshat about it. They had a true 50/50 custody split and when the kids were with him they couldn't mention mom's bf at all. If he asked them what they did over the weekend and they said "Mommy and Martin took us to the zoo" he would scold them and say "You are not allowed to say his name in my house!".
The idiots have gotten back together now and she moved back in with my brother. The family is hoping they don't remarry because frankly they aren't good together. I guess after 4 years her and Martin must have broken up. Which is really too bad because I liked Martin. He's a great guy but I always wondered what he saw in my SIL. I socialized with them more than I did with my brother. He was great with the kids and they absolutely loved him.
But alas, now they have reconciled I guess. Thank god I was smart enough to stay on friendly terms with her and never once bad mouthed her- even when my brother and my parents bad mouthed her, I always defended her.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 8:45:30 GMT -5
They are talking about moving in together. I'm imagining her doing things besides having sex, which ultimately takes place when the preschooler is not awake and unaware anyway. I'm guessing the dad wants the girlfriend involved in his life, and the kid is a big part of his life.
It may not be the best decision, I can't comment on that. I can comment on how much control the mom has over it... Zero. She can only control herself and her actions, and whether this becomes a problem, honestly, is just as much on her as on him...
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 8:51:09 GMT -5
My ex left us for another woman. Guess how much I hated her and would loved to have forbidden my son ever being around her? Ten years later they're still together and we all get along, my son even speaks Mandarin (she's Chinese). You really never know. I had to smile though. A few months ago my son asked me why I divorced his Dad and I told him what happened. That he left, not me. This has been bothering him, he never knew that. Later he asked me why he wanted to marry V? She's so lazy.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 9:05:44 GMT -5
This lady is going to drive herself crazy. I don't think my ex had a lot of women around when he had our kids. The 2 women I know he had around our kids, he eventually married. The first one was when our kids were still small, but I didn't try to control him having his girlfriend around our kids.
He didn't get to control what I did in my house, and I wasn't trying to control what he did in his. If it wasn't a real danger to our children, I let it go. As my kids got older, if they complained to me about his household rules or whatever, I'd tell them that I can't tell him how to run his house.
I dogged him out, talking bad about him lots of times. But never to my kids, and never where they could hear me. I knew they would figure it all out for themselves at some point, and they did. Once they started understanding how he was lacking, I made it clear to them that they still couldn't be disrespectful to him, and they couldn't speak about him in a disrespectful manner to me. It was a fine line to walk, acknowledging their feelings and the truth about him not being a good parent, without bashing him. Keeping my mouth shut was hard as hell sometimes, but it felt like the right thing to do.
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Post by lazysundays on May 16, 2014 9:17:44 GMT -5
I have a coworker that micromanages everything. She calls dh from work. Did you feed them? (Duh) what did you feed them? You should have done x y z. Painful to listen to. He has apparently turned into a deadbeat that can't find a job and doesn't even think he has to step up to car for kids. They're still married, but her tone has changed. You could hear the lack of respect in her voice. I don't know if he always needed to be mommied or if she created him. If I can't do anything right, why bother. I wonder if your friend had a similar relationship with her ex. I think the best fathers are allowed to parent the way they see fit. Of course they have to start off with understanding of rational basic needs.
I once read a psych research article that said if a father/ husband knows that there is someone else there to pick up the slack/ needs of the family, they will just step back. If you leave them to figure out what the kids need and just a bit of discussion of what you both have seen work/ not work, then he could become the alpha parent.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 9:49:05 GMT -5
One gf that he is planning a future with does not make a revolving door of women in the kids' lives. And what is the alternative? Keep the child out of that part of his life? I would think that would have some negative effects as well.
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Post by giramomma on May 16, 2014 10:04:12 GMT -5
The OP said the dad is a very involved dad. There is no indication he's a 4 day a month dad... As ive said, I wouldn't introduce or advocate introducing a girl/boyfriend that early. But they are talking about moving in together. This isn't a fling at that point. We also don't know that they have only been seeing each other two months. Yes. It isn't a fling. And maybe she's going to be a wifetress. I was surprised on my birth board for my littlest kid at how many moms have two kids, 2-3 years apart, with different fathers. Mom and the SO at the time of conception were living together. Just as marriage doesn't imply long term commitment, neither does living together. If the child is 3-4, years in age, that child could see dad potentially have 10 "long-term" relationships. My roommate/BFF in college's mom died of breast cancer when my BFF was 14. Her mom was in bad shape in the end. It didn't take her too long to figure out that her dad was at the bars meeting women while her mom was on her deathbed. He went through a couple engagements..When my BFF was 18, she was less than thrilled at her father's new flavor of the day. The one he seemed to settle down with his current wife, things went ok and they all get along well. But, it wasn't easy for my BFF, even when she was at an age where she could understand everything...
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Post by swamp on May 16, 2014 10:05:26 GMT -5
I've seen it in California, so no. You can put anything in a contract you want. That doesn't mean it is enforceable. I know one person who put this in their divorce settlement. Everything was fine until he got a girlfriend. Then he refused to abide by it and off to court they went. She was told that the court was not about to get into who could do what with whom unless it was an actual danger to the children. She was also told that if she with held visitation she would be held in contempt of court. Maybe swamp or midjd can weigh in on whether this is normal or just local laws. Morality clauses are generally not enforceable. You can put whatever the heck you want in a contract. The trick is in enforcing it.
If you want to go to court and keep the kids away from dads flavor of the day, good luck, unless the flavor of the day is harmful to the child.
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Post by zibazinski on May 16, 2014 10:10:16 GMT -5
It hurt my kids that the EX couldn't keep it in his pants every other weekend. I even asked him to please just pay attention to them, it was only 48 hours twice a month. Nope, no way. So the kids just stopped going as they aged into having the choice. Because EX wasnt paying CS, he didnt take it to court. But had he taken it to court, the judge would have taken into consideration that the kids felt uncomfortable being ignored while he had his drunken orgies. Doubt it would have gone further than that. Kids remember this stuff and are appreciative when mom or dad don't act like sex maniacs in front of them. DD always says how grateful she is that I didn't do to her what her dad did or some of her friends that were single moms. Trust me, I had a sex life but a discreet one.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on May 16, 2014 10:10:23 GMT -5
The OP said the dad is a very involved dad. There is no indication he's a 4 day a month dad... As ive said, I wouldn't introduce or advocate introducing a girl/boyfriend that early. But they are talking about moving in together. This isn't a fling at that point. We also don't know that they have only been seeing each other two months. Kids are resilient, as someone said, revolving girlfriends is less likely to have long term impact than crazy, constantly bitter and screaming parents. Whether he's a 4 day or a 20 day Dad, he is the adult in the relationship and he should have enough self-control to do what's best for his kid. And so should the OP's friend.
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