nutty
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Post by nutty on May 8, 2014 12:34:34 GMT -5
Oh ababab, I feel you. Even though you may think you all can sort this out and you may think you have a handle on things, go to therapy, together and not. It really is great to have a third party.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 8, 2014 12:39:11 GMT -5
I can't help but feel partially responsible for not being more supportive of her through grad school. At the same time, I don't want to get hurt again. I don't want to get sucked in only to be devastated again. I'm really terrified of that
Understandably. What you'll need to sort out (and again this is where therapy will come in) is can you EVER see yourself being able to work past this or will you always have your guard up?
The therapist will teach you both how to draw healthy boundaries in your marriage. If you can both learn to live within those boundaries then things will more than likely work out.
It's a risk to stay married to someone who burned you. It was a real leap of faith for me to take DH back and trust that he's going to stick behind what we've set up.
You get to decide how many chances she gets. I told DH that his relapse was the ONLY one I was going to go thru. He relapses again I will kick him out faster than his head can spin. I told him he burned thru his "for worst" points with that one. He doesn't get to burn me again.
Someone else may have decided to kick him out right away, another person may decide give him multiple chances. What matter is how far are YOU willing to go?
So far in the 3.5 years since he has kept his nose clean. Now I can't tell you if 5-10-15-20 years into the future he will, I'm not psychic. But I chose to stay married and he chose to accept my rules. All I can do is have things in place so IF it happens I am protected. But I am doubting it will.
If I couldn't work past it and was still looking over my shoulder constantly it wouldn't be fair to either of us to remain in the marriage. As my therapist told me at some point "working thru it" needs to mean I actually worked thru it.
Doesn't mean I am a human doormat and leave things open for DH to shatter my trust again, but neither can I let a constant cloud of suspicion hang over us either.
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swasat
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Post by swasat on May 8, 2014 12:44:42 GMT -5
We have both begun to process some of the why, both together and separately. I don't know if any of you remember, but I posted a long rambling topic a few months ago about my wife stagnating in grad school (phd program) and it causing strain in our relationship. I'm not very good at searching old threads and that account was deleted at some point, so I didn't find it. Anyhow, I think it was a few months ago which would have been shortly after the affair started. I was clearly aware that something was wrong but was way off. It bugs me now, but I even remember a couple of posters mentioning that she could be depressed and may need some mental health intervention. I brushed it off and said she had a very active social life and was happy person...well, turns out that was her putting on a front. She has struggled through grad school and developed a lot of insecurities as a result, and did become depressed. While she may have always been flirty and attention-craved around men, it wasn't until the grad school issues, insecurities and depression that she crossed that line and starting losing sight of boundaries. That's when she let go of her moral compass, her respect for our marriage, her respect for me, etc, etc. I want to help her and do still love her. I can't help but feel partially responsible for not being more supportive of her through grad school. At the same time, I don't want to get hurt again. I don't want to get sucked in only to be devastated again. I'm really terrified of that.Don't blame yourself for her decisions !! Agreed she was in grad school and she was stressed, overworked etc etc. Doesn't give her, or for that matter anyone!, the right to have an affair and sleep around. I agree with copperpouches. I too think that her 180 degree has more to do with the other guy telling her what she did not want to hear. Regarding your hurt, I think you need to give yourself time to heal. I haven't been in your situation so I can't say much. But in most cases of grief (any kind, death, loss, divorce etc) a few weeks/months are needed to for a person to start thinking straight. You don't even have to attach yurself to our wife. Just keep going on the status quo and see how you feel some weeks from now. If separate bedrooms is what you want, then so be it. You have the right to feel upset. Just as you have the right to feel nothing for her (right now). Good luck!!!
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on May 8, 2014 12:45:32 GMT -5
nutty is raving about her therapy! She says 'everyone should go'...
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on May 8, 2014 13:14:09 GMT -5
If you walk away without putting in any effort will you always wonder? Will you regret not trying? I think you might.
When my mom was diagnosed with Breast Cancer 15 years ago they gave her a variety of treatment options. She opted to have the full mastectomy rather than a lumpectomy. Then came the decision about her optional Chemotherapy. Her doctor told her that the Mastectomy gave her odds of like 80% that the cancer wouldn't return but if she added the Chemo it would raise that to 93% that it wouldn't return. He said that though there would still be a slight chance that the cancer could come back anyway if it were his wife he'd encourage her to do the Chemo. He reasoned that if the cancer came back she'd never know if it fell under the rare 7% that it would return anyway or the other 13% that she could have prevented by having the Chemo. That way she'd know to blame the cancer and not her decision to skip Chemo if it came back.
I realize that cancer and marriage are two completely different things- but the advice is still the same if you think about it. I'd suggest you do some therapy, give it some time and put in an honest effort (if you want to try to save the marriage). That way if things ultimately end in divorce you'll know that you did everything you could do and won't blame yourself and wonder if you made the right decision.
Therapy isn't for everyone. But I think it helps enough people that it's worth a shot.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on May 8, 2014 13:34:01 GMT -5
She hasn't gotten to the stage of openly volunteering information and maybe I'm not even ready for that either.
If it were me I'd save that for counseling. Having a neutral third party there to keep the conversation on course really helps.
There's no rule that says you need details, either. I fall into that category. Had I heard details or gotten "full disclosure" I likely would not have remained married. And, since remaining married was my first priority, I went without full disclosure. The numbers didn't matter to me. When you are an addict, you are an addict. Acting out less or in different ways didn't really negate that fact.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on May 8, 2014 13:37:59 GMT -5
I feel for ya.
It would really, really bother me if my DH had an affair and then came back to me when the woman informed him she didn't see them having a future together. I would always wonder what might have happened if the other woman urged him to leave me and take up with her - would DH decide differently if that was an option?
At the back of my mind I would wonder if DH would be merely waiting until the next available woman came along - and this one might see the possibility of a long term relationship with him, and he'd be gone.
Only time will tell if your W is serious about committing to you this time. Time and counseling. If she was depressed and acting in a matter that was uncharacteristic for her and she's serious about never letting that happen again, I think you guys have a good chance of staying together.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 8, 2014 13:41:34 GMT -5
There's no rule that says you need details, either
Very true. There are things that are in DH's past that we agree are better off staying buried.
That being said he was very forthcoming about what makes him tick and why he did what he did. That has helped me learn how to better deal with it as his spouse.
I suppose it depends on what we mean by "details". I don't need all of DH's gory past, but knowing the sequence of steps that lead up to the relapse helped me better complete a full picture.
I'd definitely make the call in the therapist's office. I wouldn't want to get into a gory oversharing discussion on the couch at home. Things are already tense enough as it is. If you do want to get into it save it for a neutral setting. If you decide you don't want to get into it make sure you communicate that too.
We did that a lot, if we felt things were getting too heated we'd agree to wait to continue in front of the therapist. We didn't maintain stone cold silence around each other, but we also recognized there were some aspects of this that we really weren't capable of tackling solo.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on May 8, 2014 13:57:56 GMT -5
I landed more on Drama's side of things with the amount of details that I wanted. My husband's addiction is the same as giramomma's H.
I didn't need specifics but being married to an addict comes with it's own set of "rules" or issues. I can't force DH to maintain his sobriety but he has asked me to be aware of his pitfalls and speak up if I see him getting off track. In that regard I know what his triggers are have had to bring it up a handful of times.
Don't ask for specifics, you do not need any sort of mental image in your head. Accept that she cheated and try to move forward. Demanding details will only hurt you more.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2014 14:30:38 GMT -5
Details are only important if you think there are multiple levels to cheating and you need to know how many lines are crossed.. Kissing versus intercourse versus picking up random guys off Broadway. Also, any concern of STDs?
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abababa
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Post by abababa on May 8, 2014 14:44:24 GMT -5
Also, any concern of STDs? She did get tested, and everything came back clean. She showed me the results. For my own peace of mind, I got tested (full blown everything) earlier this week and am awaiting lab results. That does make me incredibly mad. Pure stupidly. She's way too smart to be so incredibly careless. I guess once you cross over the line, everything rational goes out the window. Not one of the things I thought I'd have to worry about after getting married...
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on May 8, 2014 15:05:24 GMT -5
Also, any concern of STDs? She did get tested, and everything came back clean. She showed me the results. For my own peace of mind, I got tested (full blown everything) earlier this week and am awaiting lab results. That does make me incredibly mad. Pure stupidly. She's way too smart to be so incredibly careless. I guess once you cross over the line, everything rational goes out the window. Not one of the things I thought I'd have to worry about after getting married... She didn't use protection? You may want to get checked again in about 6 months. I'm sure all is fine but HIV takes longer to show up. I don't know either of you but is being this careless normal for her? She definitely needs medical help if she is suffering from depression and doing stupid stuff like you've mentioned if that's not normal for her. Flirting is one thing but cheating and not using protection sounds destructive to me. I personally would be concerned of repeat offending (cheating) based on what you posted recently so please proceed with caution. What if he changes his mind? What then? I'm sorry you are going through all of this and I do hope you figure this out soon.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on May 8, 2014 20:50:54 GMT -5
I'll admit I cheated, probably the biggest regret of my life. I was young & miserable, both in my relationship & my life. I guess you could say I was neglected, but it was more than that. He had become mean & controlling. Maybe it was his way to try to fix things or maybe it was in response to all the stress he was under. At the time I felt I had made it clear that I was unhappy, although in retrospect I question if I went far enough. I know I begged him for couples counseling & he wouldn't do it. I had moved across country to go with him (he had just joined the military) & was in a town with no friends and no job. When I finally found a job I liked he wanted me to quit because he didn't like the hours. He wanted me to become a SAHW & bring him lunches to work & cook dinner, clean, etc. I remember a huge fight because I hung up his shirts facing the wrong direction. We had many conversations about my weight because he thought I should weight 100 lbs or less - I am 5'3" & around 115 at the time, not exactly a fatty & 100 lbs was a freaking ridiculous goal. He also would get mad if I stayed up later than him - I was supposed to come lay in bed to sleep when he went to sleep. He just wasn't the same guy that I had fallen in love with, he got weird & talked down to me a lot even in front of other people. So when a guy came along that started telling me how beautiful I was & we connected emotionally, well I made some bad decisions. It only lasted for a month or two before I called it off. But, I do think once I decided to cheat I had effectively ended my relationship in my head. I wanted out & was being a coward about it. I quit the affair before I left my ex. My ex found out about it after I left him, so he never had to make the decision if he could forgive me or how to handle it. I know I provided a lot of detail that might seemingly be blaming my ex for my actions, but that isn't what I am trying to do, just trying to describe the situation. It was my mistake & one I have vowed to never repeat. Although it may have been a temporary fix for how I was feeling, it was a huge mistake & didn't help anything. In retrospect I wish I had made how I felt clearer before I left. Once I left I was done, but that is when my ex woke up & suddenly wanted to do counseling & fix things. Maybe if I had made it clearer earlier we could have worked it out. Cheating is the fault of the cheater, but it may be in response to a lot of other factors & unhappiness. Find out why. Find out if she regrets it. Find out if she wants to fix the marriage. Figure out if you can eventually forgive her & move on from this. This is fixable IF both of you want to work for it. I totally understand what you are saying. While cheating obviously not the best way to handle it, it would be difficult not to fall for someone that didn't criticize you for everything.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on May 8, 2014 22:01:04 GMT -5
I landed more on Drama's side of things with the amount of details that I wanted. My husband's addiction is the same as giramomma's H.
I didn't need specifics but being married to an addict comes with it's own set of "rules" or issues. I can't force DH to maintain his sobriety but he has asked me to be aware of his pitfalls and speak up if I see him getting off track. In that regard I know what his triggers are have had to bring it up a handful of times.
Don't ask for specifics, you do not need any sort of mental image in your head. Accept that she cheated and try to move forward. Demanding details will only hurt you more. Not to completely T/J, I know what my h's triggers are. That's easy. It's not having his emotional needs met. If my DH feels like his emotional needs aren't being met, it's up to him to speak up so we can figure out a way to solve the issue...
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on May 8, 2014 23:03:47 GMT -5
Wow, you have had a crazy few days. I don't know whether or not you should stay, go, or do a cartwheel. I think either choice is fine, including agreeing to stay for six to twelve months to see if you two can salvage the marriage. I don't think you need to promise that you're completely in until you've had a reasonable amount of time to process all of this. I also don't think it's fair of her to demand an answer from you in the next year. I do know that she will need to work through the guilt and have to be able face you every day. If she can't get past that, she will not be able to stay in the marriage. Good luck.
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toomuchreality
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Post by toomuchreality on May 9, 2014 1:48:22 GMT -5
This happened with my XH. He quit counseling when he got confronted on things and was expected to own his shi+. When he could no longer get away with saying it was all my fault, for some ridiculous reason or another (I was too fat, I had all the support -meaning therapists etc.), we suddenly couldn't afford counseling any more. We couldn't afford not to have counseling. If he wouldn't own his part, I couldn't stay in the marriage. I got a divorce. To this day, I can't stand to be around him, because he still thinks/acts/talks like he is/was perfect, and was taken advantage of by me. I thank those who have posted here. Because of you, your willingness to share, I have finally had a light bulb moment, about my feelings. THANK YOU ALL!All the best abababa. Do what you need to do, for you. Take care of you.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 9, 2014 7:00:06 GMT -5
Tloonya, I don't why I allow it, but you continue to make my blood boil. From what you type, you sound like someone that has a lot of your own issues to work out and could benefit from some serious soul searching and mental health intervention. But that's for you to figure out. You don't know anything about my wife beyond what I've typed here and have no right to call her a slut. You continue to railroad and hijack this thread for your own selfish purposes. I'd prefer you 'get lost' but realize this is what I open myself up to by posting to an anonymous internet forum. Many other have posted useful insights and for the time being, I'm willing to put up with the rest. You can put her (or anyone except a mod) on ignore. You have to do it from your profile. You can even put a mod on ignore! Hooray for that news!!
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 9, 2014 7:11:37 GMT -5
Some of this reminds me of DFs ex. She married him with two kids of her own and then quickly had that cement child in case he wised up. When her bio child with him was a senior in college, she came to him and said she was having an affair with her boss and wanted her half and wanted out. She also said a lot of other Things that should have been left unsaid if she'd have had any class but that's another story. Long, short, he and I reunited about two weeks after this all happened to him via Facebook, of all things! He told me what happened and I told him that her married lover was not about to leave his wife and kids for her no matter how many millions she got from DF to buy a new husband. I was right and she wanted DF back when lover dumped her. He said no dice and the rest is history. But getting dumped is a great motivator to work on a marriage. But it isn't real. I'd keep going to counseling and having her go and sometimes you see each others counselor so he or she knows what's up with both of you. Stay out of bed and the bedroom with her, period. I was tested for two years before I felt safe enough again and then I made DF get tested because who knew where that EX had been besides her manager. Or who else that manager had been in. She needs to work on herself and you need to work on yourself and maybe, just maybe, you can both pick up the pieces after that but it is going to be a long time so realize that.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on May 9, 2014 9:45:08 GMT -5
If she really is an intelligent woman who normally would never flirt with anyone outside her marriage, it could very well be that she had something mentally going on, like depression. I've been married 30 years to DH and he has never behaved in appropriated ways (helps that he's introverted and not at all flirtatous - our courtship was interesting...) if he were to suddenly take up with another woman it would be so uncharacteristic of him I would suspect either some serious mental health issues or maybe even a brain tumor.
This does not excuse her behavior, but if I knew my DH's behavior was completely abnormal and brought on my some mental disorder I would be far more likely to attempt to salvage the marriage. But only you can evaluate that for yourself.
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abababa
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Post by abababa on May 11, 2014 8:35:25 GMT -5
Thanks all for your insights. I'm going be spending more time in the forums at survivinginfidelity.com. It's a great resource...thank you to the poster that recommended. I'll probably still poke around here occasionally.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on May 11, 2014 8:38:08 GMT -5
What disappeared should be back now that a post has been added, abababa. Not sure what's going on, but I know ProBoards was doing some maintenance that caused some problems. They suspended it during the day yesterday, but I'll bet they got back on it last night. That could be the problem. I hope you're doing okay and do hope you continue to post with us. We're here for you and we care. Hang in there.
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abababa
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Post by abababa on May 11, 2014 8:40:13 GMT -5
What disappeared should be back now that a post has been added, abababa. Not sure what's going on, but I know ProBoards was doing some maintenance that caused some problems. They suspended it during the day yesterday, but I'll bet they got back on it last night. That could be the problem. I hope you're doing okay and do hope you continue to post with us. We're here for you and we care. Hang in there. Thanks. Yep it came back after I posted. Rather odd.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on May 11, 2014 8:42:33 GMT -5
Another post in the thread usually corrects that particular problem. Doesn't happen often, fortunately, but it's been happening more frequently just recently.
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nutty
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Post by nutty on May 11, 2014 8:45:53 GMT -5
Yeah I wondered what had happened to my thread.
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on May 11, 2014 12:16:06 GMT -5
Good luck and best wishes on coming out of this very difficult and horrible time of your life. I went through a divorce when my first husband said it was all over, and frankly, I'm much happier for it. I didn't think I would ever be happy again, but, truth be told, our marriage was toxic, and he did the right thing by leaving me. I met my second husband-to-be about 5-6 months later, in a newspaper ad, and he had been widowed the year before. His marriage had been unhappy as well, but he stayed with his wife because she was so ill. We started dating, and my first husband was very disparaging about it, since he was convinced that I couldn't get strong and happy without him. DH & I have been together for almost 16 years, and married for almost ten years, and he's been just wonderful. I love as much now, if not more, than when we first started going out. There is a better life ahead for you, as long as you don't try to resurrect the burnt-out husks of the past. If your wife has slept with other(s) without protection, and then has slept with you, that's a terrible thing to do to you. You should never sleep with her again. Tough shit on her. Whatever you decide, going through a divorce *feels* like the end of the world, and so it is, in a way, the end of the world you knew. But, that doesn't mean that divorce can't bring good with it, including getting away from the toxic, dishonest spouse, being able to work on one's own faults and annoying characteristics, and moving on from some terrible memories. In the past 16 years, I've loved more, become more lovable, matured, improved my job skills, become a better parent, found more personal contentment had more happy physical relations , traveled more, and made a better friend than I had ever dreamed of when I was with my first husband. I also, materially, better off, have more security, and almost no worries. I couldn't have done it if I had wasted more years of my life with my first, no-win marriage and husband. It just wasn't meant to be, and that's okay. I did get the gift of my wonderful daughter from that marriage, and for that, I am very thankful. As for the rest, see ya, goodbye. My life is much better now at the age of 61 than it was when first husband told me it was over, at the age of 44. just some things to think about.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 5:59:55 GMT -5
Yeah I wondered what had happened to my thread. Me, too, Nutty. I figured you deleted it.
I'm glad you are ok.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on May 13, 2014 9:23:46 GMT -5
Yeah I wondered what had happened to my thread. Me, too, Nutty. I figured you deleted it.
I'm glad you are ok.
Nutty's thread is still missing though and I thought mmhmm said that the board issues were fixed... Unless I'm blind.
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tloonya
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What status?
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Post by tloonya on May 13, 2014 9:31:27 GMT -5
Me, too, Nutty. I figured you deleted it.
I'm glad you are ok.
Nutty's thread is still missing though and I thought mmhmm said that the board issues were fixed... Unless I'm blind. That epic thread should had been preserved! However if it is gone - nutty can start PartII, right? How are you, nutty?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 9:44:23 GMT -5
I didn't even notice nutty's thread was missing! But I checked my posting history and there is no trace of anything I posted there. Weird...
I do hope things are better for you, nutty.
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nutty
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Post by nutty on May 13, 2014 12:48:43 GMT -5
Don't want to hijack, the post was from other day when proboards went funny, however I did ask SL to delete the other one. My and H had a huge discussion last night and we agreed not to talk others about our marriage, IRL, message boards, texts etc. Our marriage is between him and I period and it was one of the boundaries we discussed, hence asking SL to delete. I will and can discuss generalities by PM. Thank you so much for all you kind words and support, I did hear you all and mostly you were all right.
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