Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2014 16:12:55 GMT -5
She's an idiot for keeping "obey" in there!
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Apr 11, 2014 16:13:48 GMT -5
My wife still looks good. She isn't fat enough for me to start hooking up with others yet. Probably won't be until after we have kids. I am sure that is just as comforting to her as when you pay the electric bill. I'll bet it is, too. That plug-in vibrator doesn't run on air, yanno.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Apr 11, 2014 16:14:12 GMT -5
::My marriage vows included "foresaking all others" but never included "won't turn on vaccum during a tv show". Mao I disagree with you:: She vowed to obey me, and I've told her no vacuuming when I'm watching tv. Who the hell keeps "obey" in their vows?? She deserves what she gets :-p
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Apr 11, 2014 16:16:29 GMT -5
She's an idiot for keeping "obey" in there! One of us "forgot" to say it. I don't believe in lying, and I knew I wasn't going to obey her.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Apr 11, 2014 16:16:41 GMT -5
...:::"But it IS grossly unfair of any spouse to say to any other spouse: no I won't give you any kind of emotional or sexual companionship but you are not free to seek it elsewhere and you are not free to leave. That is not a marriage - that is tyranny. Sez me. YMMV":::... Dude, kittensaver is KILLING IT! ...:::"You either figure out how to deal with it, compromise or divorce.":::... The thing is, there are much broader, "legal", "moral" ways to "deal with" a deal breaker like "she won't accompany me to musicals". I can go to a musical with another person. I'm really not supposed to ravage them in the stairwell afterwards
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2014 16:18:06 GMT -5
Attendance would be waay up if that were the case!
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Apr 11, 2014 16:18:12 GMT -5
Some animal species are by nature, monogamous. Human beings aren't one of them.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Apr 11, 2014 16:18:51 GMT -5
I am sure that is just as comforting to her as when you pay the electric bill. I'll bet it is, too. That plug-in vibrator doesn't run on air, yanno. Sure it does, big old air compressor attached to it.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Apr 11, 2014 16:19:03 GMT -5
I know one guy who's wife became very religous after they had been married 25 years or so. He is not so religous. Their common interests went down to going out to dinner and their kids and grand kids. She has not had sex with him in years. He has spoken to her about trying to come back together both sexually and emotionally. She doesn't think there are any problems or if there are, she doesn't want to talk about them. Being so religous now she also does not want a divorce and of course him cheating is against her religous beliefs. So this guy is a complete asshole if he seeks out companionship on the side and decides not to devastate the two of them financially with a divorce? You could interchange the male and female roles here no problem. ...let's try it this way: I know one lady who's husband became very sick after they had been married 25 years or so. She is still healthy. Their common interests went down to going out to dinner and their kids and grand kids. He has not had sex with her in years. She has spoken to him about trying to come back together both sexually and emotionally. He doesn't think there are any problems or if there are, he doesn't want to talk about them. Being so sick now he also does not want a divorce and of course her cheating is against his beliefs. So this lady is a complete asshole if she seeks out companionship on the side and decides not to devastate the two of them financially with a divorce? I don't think the answer changes for me. Having been through and recovered from three major illnesses, I can promise you there are ways to connect emotionally and sexually when you are ill. Maybe not how it used to be, but connection can be there. It depends how badly you want to stay connected. I bolded the statement that jumped out at me - - he can have all the "beliefs" he wants - but in the end he has no control over her behavior. No one has any control over anyone except themselves. It is agreements (contracts, handshakes, marriage licenses) that help people decide how they will and will not behave with another. And they can still change their minds and break their agreements .
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2014 16:19:54 GMT -5
Some animal species are by nature, monogamous. Human beings aren't one of them. Well, this homo sapien doesn't have a problem with it...
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kittensaver
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We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
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Post by kittensaver on Apr 11, 2014 16:21:05 GMT -5
Some animal species are by nature, monogamous. Human beings aren't one of them. Well, this homo sapien doesn't have a problem with it... Agreed! "Monogamy" is not "natural" - - but we certainly can choose it. And we can align our lives with a spouse who chooses it also . . . just sayin' . . . .
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Apr 11, 2014 16:23:56 GMT -5
...let's try it this way: I know one lady who's husband became very sick after they had been married 25 years or so. She is still healthy. Their common interests went down to going out to dinner and their kids and grand kids. He has not had sex with her in years. She has spoken to him about trying to come back together both sexually and emotionally. He doesn't think there are any problems or if there are, he doesn't want to talk about them. Being so sick now he also does not want a divorce and of course her cheating is against his beliefs. So this lady is a complete asshole if she seeks out companionship on the side and decides not to devastate the two of them financially with a divorce? I don't think the answer changes for me. Having been through and recovered from three major illnesses, I can promise you there are ways to connect emotionally and sexually when you are ill. Maybe not how it used to be, but connection can be there. It depends how badly you want to stay connected. I bolded the statement that jumped out at me - - he can have all the "beliefs" he wants - but in the end he has no control over her behavior. No one has any control over anyone except themselves. It is agreements (contracts, handshakes, marriage licenses) that help people decide how they will and will not behave with another. And they can still change their minds and break their agreements . ...okay... so is she the jerk, or not?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2014 16:25:07 GMT -5
She is choosing to stay for financial security. Does that make her a jerk?
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Apr 11, 2014 16:27:03 GMT -5
She is choosing to stay for financial security. Does that make her a jerk? ...might make her a call girl... providing companionship for money... right?
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kittensaver
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We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
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Post by kittensaver on Apr 11, 2014 16:28:07 GMT -5
I don't think the answer changes for me. Having been through and recovered from three major illnesses, I can promise you there are ways to connect emotionally and sexually when you are ill. Maybe not how it used to be, but connection can be there. It depends how badly you want to stay connected. I bolded the statement that jumped out at me - - he can have all the "beliefs" he wants - but in the end he has no control over her behavior. No one has any control over anyone except themselves. It is agreements (contracts, handshakes, marriage licenses) that help people decide how they will and will not behave with another. And they can still change their minds and break their agreements . ...okay... so is she the jerk, or not? I dunno . . . I'm hesitant to "label" her because I can't see inside their marriage and what's "really" going on. For all I know, HE could be the "jerk" because he's got her backed into a corner ("no sex for you, no emotional connection for you, you can't leave me but I will give you nothing in return . . . "). But in general - the folks who run off and break their vows/agreements because they won't deal with their partner/spouse to try and fix it first . . . yeah, pretty jerky. Making another decision for yourself because your partner is a stone wall? I'm not so sure. Especially if that decision is divorce. I actually think divorce MIGHT be the most honest and open answer.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Apr 11, 2014 16:34:07 GMT -5
Well, this homo sapien doesn't have a problem with it... Agreed! "Monogamy" is not "natural" - - but we certainly can choose it. And we can align our lives with a spouse who chooses it also . . . just sayin' . . . . Depends how you choose to define monogamy. Mating for life, you can choose it, but it's going to be rare you only have sex with one person in your entire life. Being married to one person? Not hard at all actually. Having sex with only one person? Really hard to define actually. I think people are trying to use it to mean only having sex with your spouse? That's not really what monogamy is though.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Apr 11, 2014 16:35:05 GMT -5
I know one guy who's wife became very religous after they had been married 25 years or so. He is not so religous. Their common interests went down to going out to dinner and their kids and grand kids. She has not had sex with him in years. He has spoken to her about trying to come back together both sexually and emotionally. She doesn't think there are any problems or if there are, she doesn't want to talk about them. Being so religous now she also does not want a divorce and of course him cheating is against her religous beliefs. So this guy is a complete asshole if he seeks out companionship on the side and decides not to devastate the two of them financially with a divorce? You could interchange the male and female roles here no problem. If I were the guy I would divorce the wife. Not being intimate would be a deal breaker for me I've been on both sides of the equation, so have a fairly good idea as to what happens. To start with, there is no one reason why anyone cheats. As many people who cheat, there are as many reasons. Some reasons are valid in their mind, some are not. For as many people who choose to continue a relationship with someone who cheats, until you actually are in the situation you may be surprised as to how you'll respond. For me, I cheated with a guy whose wife was dying. She WANTED to die, had already checked out of life and he wanted comfort. In fact, I think he wanted that more than sex but they were rolled into one ball in this case. He had spent the last 10 years being a caretaker, not a husband. I think she died a month later, but for that one night he was able to forget his hell of a life. Believe me, it was hell but a hell he could not in good conscious walk away from.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Apr 11, 2014 16:36:09 GMT -5
Yes, I still think she's a jerk. She's going behind her husband's back. If he agreed to her having companionship on the side (just as in the other scenario if the wife agreed to let the husband) than that's a mutually agreed upon situation. going behind the other's back is WRONG. What can one do to NOT be a jerk then. If someone says "Don't divorce me and don't have sex with anyone else"...everyone seems to think it's fine to just divorce them...but why is choosing to ignore one request somehow more honorable than another? You can have sex with others without it being mutually agreed upon and without going behind someone's back. You can just choose to do it and not hide it...does that make it ok to people?
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Apr 11, 2014 16:43:31 GMT -5
So let's say there's nothing medically wrong with my wife at all. I approach her and say "I have changed...I want to have sex with other people. I am willing to do that and stay married because I love our relationship, but I will divorce you first if you like". Her response is "don't divorce me and don't have sex with anyone else". What can I do to not be a jerk and why does it not make me a jerk? Either way I am going against her request. She refuses to make a pick and say either "go ahead and have sex with others" or "divorce me". What's the proper option? Is it just to stay married and miserable?
I'm imagining most will say "get a divorce", in which case I would like to hear the rationale for WHY rejecting that request is more honorable than rejecting the other request.
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kittensaver
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We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
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Post by kittensaver on Apr 11, 2014 16:44:44 GMT -5
Yes, I still think she's a jerk. She's going behind her husband's back. If he agreed to her having companionship on the side (just as in the other scenario if the wife agreed to let the husband) than that's a mutually agreed upon situation. going behind the other's back is WRONG. What can one do to NOT be a jerk then. If someone says " Don't divorce me and don't have sex with anyone else"...everyone seems to think it's fine to just divorce them...but why is choosing to ignore one request somehow more honorable than another? You can have sex with others without it being mutually agreed upon and without going behind someone's back. You can just choose to do it and not hide it...does that make it ok to people? I find this to be an untenable position (bolded statement). Again, this is not a relationship, this is tyrany. If both parties AGREE to the situation (no sex with me, but none with anyone else either), well then, who am I to judge? But if they disagree and will not compromise (ie, look the other way when an affair or occasional fling happens), then there is very little to no relationship left anyway (sez me, YMMV). I think that is when divorce is the most open and honest (albeit financially painful) choice. Unilaterally breaking a committment to someone (ie, cheating) is never okay. If you agree to stay together but take your sexual business elsewhere, who am I to judge?
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Apr 11, 2014 16:48:09 GMT -5
::Unilaterally breaking a committment to someone (ie, cheating) is never okay.::
That's what divorce is though too in a lot of circumstances.
::But if they disagree and will not compromise::
It's very difficult to compromise about whether you will only have sex with your spouse. You either do or don't. It's like compromising on whether you're pregnant. It is or it isn't.
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justme
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Post by justme on Apr 11, 2014 16:55:35 GMT -5
So let's say there's nothing medically wrong with my wife at all. I approach her and say "I have changed...I want to have sex with other people. I am willing to do that and stay married because I love our relationship, but I will divorce you first if you like". Her response is "don't divorce me and don't have sex with anyone else". What can I do to not be a jerk and why does it not make me a jerk? Either way I am going against her request. She refuses to make a pick and say either "go ahead and have sex with others" or "divorce me". What's the proper option? Is it just to stay married and miserable? I'm imagining most will say "get a divorce", in which case I would like to hear the rationale for WHY rejecting that request is more honorable than rejecting the other request. You choose what YOU want to live with, what's more important to you. Do you think the marriage is the most important? Sorry buddy, enjoy having sex with only one person. Is the sex with multiple people more important to you? Sucks for you wife, but you're getting divorced. I don't know how it could sit with someone to continuously lie and betray someone. I couldn't live with it.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Apr 11, 2014 16:58:46 GMT -5
So let's say there's nothing medically wrong with my wife at all. I approach her and say "I have changed...I want to have sex with other people. I am willing to do that and stay married because I love our relationship, but I will divorce you first if you like". Her response is "don't divorce me and don't have sex with anyone else". What can I do to not be a jerk and why does it not make me a jerk? Either way I am going against her request. She refuses to make a pick and say either "go ahead and have sex with others" or "divorce me". What's the proper option? Is it just to stay married and miserable? I'm imagining most will say "get a divorce", in which case I would like to hear the rationale for WHY rejecting that request is more honorable than rejecting the other request. ...how does her "don't divorce me and don't have sex with others" response stack up to your "let me have sex with others or let me divorce you" request?
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kittensaver
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We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
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Post by kittensaver on Apr 11, 2014 17:06:49 GMT -5
::Unilaterally breaking a committment to someone (ie, cheating) is never okay.:: That's what divorce is though too in a lot of circumstances. I respectfully disagree. It takes two to tango. If you are in a marriage, you are in a relationship with someone else. You don't always get your own way. [To get your own way, stay single.] If you put your spouse in an untenable position that is at odds with your marital agreement ("we committed our emotional and sexual energies to each other, but now I don't want it any more BUT you are not allowed to find fulfillment elsewhere AND you are not allowed to leave") one can hardly call the divorce decision "unilateral." Sez me. The spouse saying NO made a unilateral choice, and choices have consequences - often unwanted ones (ie, the other spouse leaves, ie, divorce). But I wouldn't try to pretend that spouse #1 had no choice - because they did. They chose to change the relationship, but now say the consequences (divorce) are unfair? Doesn't fly with me. But as always - YMMV.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Apr 11, 2014 17:07:10 GMT -5
So let's say there's nothing medically wrong with my wife at all. I approach her and say "I have changed...I want to have sex with other people. I am willing to do that and stay married because I love our relationship, but I will divorce you first if you like". Her response is "don't divorce me and don't have sex with anyone else". What can I do to not be a jerk and why does it not make me a jerk? Either way I am going against her request. She refuses to make a pick and say either "go ahead and have sex with others" or "divorce me". What's the proper option? Is it just to stay married and miserable? I'm imagining most will say "get a divorce", in which case I would like to hear the rationale for WHY rejecting that request is more honorable than rejecting the other request. You choose what YOU want to live with, what's more important to you. Do you think the marriage is the most important? Sorry buddy, enjoy having sex with only one person. Is the sex with multiple people more important to you? Sucks for you wife, but you're getting divorced. I don't know how it could sit with someone to continuously lie and betray someone. I couldn't live with it. To me, sneaking around, lying, trying to make your lies consistent, trying to conceal things, always wondering if you're going to get "caught" is way too much work. Not to mention I don't see how you can claim to love someone and li8e and cheat behind their back. If you really love someone, the last thing in your mind should be betraying their trust.
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kittensaver
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We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
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Post by kittensaver on Apr 11, 2014 17:12:14 GMT -5
You choose what YOU want to live with, what's more important to you. Do you think the marriage is the most important? Sorry buddy, enjoy having sex with only one person. Is the sex with multiple people more important to you? Sucks for you wife, but you're getting divorced. I don't know how it could sit with someone to continuously lie and betray someone. I couldn't live with it. To me, sneaking around, lying, trying to make your lies consistent, trying to conceal things, always wondering if you're going to get "caught" is way too much work. Not to mention I don't see how you can claim to love someone and li8e and cheat behind their back. If you really love someone, the last thing in your mind should be betraying their trust. Soooooo much this! ^^^^^ That's what wanton youth is for, gang! Get out there and have all kinds of experiences and meet all kinds of people, so that when you finally choose a spouse you know and understand what you are leaving behind. That is when you have a fighting chance at a committed marriage: when you know enough to know that what you have in front of you is far more important and "worth it" than the maybe-potential of what could-be-out-there. That knowledge makes committment much easier. At least in my world.
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Peace Of Mind
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[font color="#8f2520"]~ Drinks Well With Others ~[/font]
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Apr 11, 2014 17:19:37 GMT -5
I will never look at shaking hands the same again. And I hope I don't catch an STD!
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Sunnyday
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Post by Sunnyday on Apr 11, 2014 17:26:45 GMT -5
people cheat because they have separate accounts, but it's not really cheating, because it's not a real marriage if you have separate accounts.
sorry, if someone already made the same joke. I didn't feel like going through 8 pages just now.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Apr 11, 2014 17:28:09 GMT -5
people cheat because they have separate accounts, but it's not really cheating, because it's not a real marriage if you have separate accounts. sorry, if someone already made the same joke. I didn't feel like going through 8 pages just now. Yay...I am free to have all the sex I want!
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kittensaver
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We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
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Post by kittensaver on Apr 11, 2014 17:30:49 GMT -5
people cheat because they have separate accounts, but it's not really cheating, because it's not a real marriage if you have separate accounts. sorry, if someone already made the same joke. I didn't feel like going through 8 pages just now. Yay...I am free to have all the sex I want! Yay! Me too!
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