hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Apr 11, 2014 15:24:21 GMT -5
::If you suddenly decide that you want to change the terms of your marriage, you first must let your partner know and let them decide whether they want to accept the new terms or not. ::
Totally agree. If you have already sat down and hammered out marriage terms that youv'e both specifically agree to that involve not having sex with anyone else, you should let the other person know of your change. I just happen to not think a ton of people have specifically sat down and said that.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Apr 11, 2014 15:24:43 GMT -5
Logically, I can understand Hoops' point, but I think I'd have to have a pretty piss-poor sex life to be equating it with the minutae of daily life, or to see no difference between having sex and getting a haircut.
I think copperboxes summed it up best, though. It's about respect. Sexual fidelity is hugely important to some people. It's less important to others. If you know cheating is a dealbreaker for your spouse, and do it anyway, that shows a huge lack of respect. If your spouse doesn't really care if you cheat, have at it. I'd say more people care than don't, though.
I don't think you need to specifically agree to it. In a healthy marriage, if you know something is important to your spouse, you try to do it (or refrain, as it may be). My boss has never specifically told me "don't slaughter a live chicken in the breakroom for lunch," but I'm pretty sure if I did, I'd be fired. I doubt anyone would come to my defense by saying, "Well, no one ever specifically said you couldn't do that..."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2014 15:25:12 GMT -5
::if YOU interpret it as meaning something else I do hope you discussed it with your wife prior to marriage.:: When my interpretation of something is different than a stranger on the internet, I don't feel like that's something I must discuss with my wife. ::Point being, you discuss it with her, you both understand your options, you both make your choices... Not cheating. You go behind her back and bang your secretary... Cheating. :: Does my wife need to come to me to discuss every single action she is going to take so that we can all understand all our options? She does lots of stuff without clearing it with me first. It doesn't require her to lie just like me cheating wouldn't necessarily cause me to lie. Anyone else reminded of "it depends on what your definition of "is" is...."
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Apr 11, 2014 15:26:23 GMT -5
Just seems like people who can pledge to spend their lives together should really be better to each other. ...you'd think, huh?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2014 15:28:18 GMT -5
Oh no, people that are anti cheating have made their conclusions without a single question to a cheater and any explanation offered is immediately rejected. It amazes me how this is such a "there is NO excuse" issue.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2014 15:29:10 GMT -5
There's no excuse in my world. Go ahead and give phoenix the reasons why it's acceptable in yours. ETA: let me clarify that there's no excuse for deceit in my marriage. Which is what sleeping around behind my back would be.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Apr 11, 2014 15:30:35 GMT -5
::if YOU interpret it as meaning something else I do hope you discussed it with your wife prior to marriage.:: When my interpretation of something is different than a stranger on the internet, I don't feel like that's something I must discuss with my wife. ::Point being, you discuss it with her, you both understand your options, you both make your choices... Not cheating. You go behind her back and bang your secretary... Cheating. :: Does my wife need to come to me to discuss every single action she is going to take so that we can all understand all our options? She does lots of stuff without clearing it with me first. It doesn't require her to lie just like me cheating wouldn't necessarily cause me to lie. Would your wife be ok if she found out you were cheating on her? Probably not. I'm not ok with a lot of stuff my wife does though, doesn't mean I expect her to run every decision she makes past me to make sure I'm ok with it. I wasn't ok with it when she turned the vacuum on the other day while I was watching a show I like. That doesnt' mean i consider it a violation of our marriage.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2014 15:31:21 GMT -5
my DW and i had a conversation about that a while back
We were discussing politics, and Clinton's name came up
And suddenly, the crux of the conversation changed
in her words
"you can do all the window shopping you like, but touching or buying any of the merchandise is strictly verboten!"
she owns her own store....you kinda get the retail side of her there
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Apr 11, 2014 15:32:42 GMT -5
Would your wife be ok if she found out you were cheating on her? Probably not. I'm not ok with a lot of stuff my wife does though, doesn't mean I expect her to run every decision she makes past me to make sure I'm ok with it. I wasn't ok with it when she turned the vacuum on the other day while I was watching a show I like. That doesnt' mean i consider it a violation of our marriage. Right...because fucking someone other than your spouse is just like turning the vacuum on.....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2014 15:32:59 GMT -5
"I can look at the menu even if I am on a diet"!!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2014 15:33:52 GMT -5
Oh no, people that are anti cheating have made their conclusions without a single question to a cheater and any explanation offered is immediately rejected. It amazes me how this is such a "there is NO excuse" issue. because there is NO valid excuse you can reason away anything but....this is a very black and white issue for most people
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Apr 11, 2014 15:35:20 GMT -5
::but there comes a time in every relationship prior to marriage, where you begin to date.. you then to decide to become exclusive which means monogamous to 99.99999999% of the human population. Getting married is a continuation of that relationship... you carry those terms forward into marriage. It is a mutual, albeit probably unspoken, understanding. Playing dumb isn't going to get you off the hook...::
Ok, so lets assume that. There are a lot of other unspoken understandings as well. You're just elevating one of those above the others arbitrarily. I'm not saying cheating isn't selfish and a dick move. I'm saying people do selfish dick move things all the time in relationships. Sex isn't any more or less selfish or dickish than those.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Apr 11, 2014 15:35:33 GMT -5
Oh no, people that are anti cheating have made their conclusions without a single question to a cheater and any explanation offered is immediately rejected. It amazes me how this is such a "there is NO excuse" issue. Later, there are certain things that at deal breakers to me. That doesn't mean that my deal breakers are the same as yours or others.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Apr 11, 2014 15:36:18 GMT -5
::but there comes a time in every relationship prior to marriage, where you begin to date.. you then to decide to become exclusive which means monogamous to 99.99999999% of the human population. Getting married is a continuation of that relationship... you carry those terms forward into marriage. It is a mutual, albeit probably unspoken, understanding. Playing dumb isn't going to get you off the hook...:: Ok, so lets assume that. There are a lot of other unspoken understandings as well. You're just elevating one of those above the others arbitrarily. I'm not saying cheating isn't selfish and a dick move. I'm saying people do selfish dick move things all the time in relationships. Sex isn't any more or less selfish or dickish than those. To me it is
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Apr 11, 2014 15:37:56 GMT -5
Probably not. I'm not ok with a lot of stuff my wife does though, doesn't mean I expect her to run every decision she makes past me to make sure I'm ok with it. I wasn't ok with it when she turned the vacuum on the other day while I was watching a show I like. That doesnt' mean i consider it a violation of our marriage. Right...because fucking someone other than your spouse is just like turning the vacuum on..... You're right, they're not comparable. Me having sex with someone else doesn't impede on my wife's free time activities. I'd have the courtesy to do it when she's not in the house.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2014 15:38:47 GMT -5
::but there comes a time in every relationship prior to marriage, where you begin to date.. you then to decide to become exclusive which means monogamous to 99.99999999% of the human population. Getting married is a continuation of that relationship... you carry those terms forward into marriage. It is a mutual, albeit probably unspoken, understanding. Playing dumb isn't going to get you off the hook...:: Ok, so lets assume that. There are a lot of other unspoken understandings as well. You're just elevating one of those above the others arbitrarily. I'm not saying cheating isn't selfish and a dick move. I'm saying people do selfish dick move things all the time in relationships. Sex isn't any more or less selfish or dickish than those. really sex with another, and then with your spouse can kill being rude doesnt have that same consequence not taking out the garbage doesnt quite stand up to the same scrutiny so i guess i would need to know what else you would put in the same category?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Apr 11, 2014 15:39:39 GMT -5
Right...because fucking someone other than your spouse is just like turning the vacuum on..... You're right, they're not comparable. Me having sex with someone else doesn't impede on my wife's free time activities. I'd have the courtesy to do it when she's not in the house. And now I know you are just playing the troll
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 11, 2014 15:39:53 GMT -5
I know two cheaters very well. Why they did and their reasoning behind it is their own. They also have had to accept the consequences that came with cheating. None of it is any of my business.
I'm not going to agree with them on the subject. No amount of justifications are going to get me to change my mind on the subject. I'm not going to come around and say it was all right, nor am I going to ever condone my husband cheating or cheat myself.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Apr 11, 2014 15:40:11 GMT -5
::Please enlighten us then. When is it acceptable for the person who vowed to love, honor and cherish you whom you trust implicitly goes behind your back, completely disrespects you and your marriage and destroys that trust just to get his "needs" met? The answer is NEVER for me. ::
The answer is never for most of us I think. The issue is whether the act of putting your genitalia inside someone else "completely disrespects you and your marriage and destroys that trust".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2014 15:43:04 GMT -5
Oh no, people that are anti cheating have made their conclusions without a single question to a cheater and any explanation offered is immediately rejected. It amazes me how this is such a "there is NO excuse" issue. Please enlighten us then. When is it acceptable for the person who vowed to love, honor and cherish you whom you trust implicitly goes behind your back, completely disrespects you and your marriage and destroys that trust just to get his "needs" met? The answer is NEVER for me. I know one guy who's wife became very religous after they had been married 25 years or so. He is not so religous. Their common interests went down to going out to dinner and their kids and grand kids. She has not had sex with him in years. He has spoken to her about trying to come back together both sexually and emotionally. She doesn't think there are any problems or if there are, she doesn't want to talk about them. Being so religous now she also does not want a divorce and of course him cheating is against her religous beliefs. So this guy is a complete asshole if he seeks out companionship on the side and decides not to devastate the two of them financially with a divorce? You could interchange the male and female roles here no problem.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 11, 2014 15:45:08 GMT -5
The issue is whether the act of putting your genitalia inside someone else "completely disrespects you and your marriage and destroys that trust
Some people do work thru cheating. That is their decision in regards to their marriage.
Others do not and consider it to be a breach big enough to end the marriage over. That's their business in regards to their marriage.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2014 15:45:57 GMT -5
marriage counseling
if that doesnt work, yes they need to go their separate ways
playing house with someone doesnt constitute a marriage
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Apr 11, 2014 15:46:49 GMT -5
::sex with another, and then with your spouse can kill::
So can about a thousand other things that people do every day. Cooking a variety of things "can kill". Driving a car "can kill". Failing to replace the shower mat "can kill". Feeding someone fatty food "can kill". How many people die because their spouse had sex with someone else and then had sex with them VS how many people die of heart disease brought on by a bad diet?
There's not much in this world that can't kill.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Apr 11, 2014 15:47:07 GMT -5
I know two cheaters very well. Why they did and their reasoning behind it is their own. They also have had to accept the consequences that came with cheating. None of it is any of my business. I'm not going to agree with them on the subject. No amount of justifications are going to get me to change my mind on the subject. I'm not going to come around and say it was all right, nor am I going to ever condone my husband cheating or cheat myself. I know a few cheaters and I like most of them. What they did they did to their spouse and not me. I would feel completely different if it was my spouse doing the cheating
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Apr 11, 2014 15:48:23 GMT -5
Please enlighten us then. When is it acceptable for the person who vowed to love, honor and cherish you whom you trust implicitly goes behind your back, completely disrespects you and your marriage and destroys that trust just to get his "needs" met? The answer is NEVER for me. I know one guy who's wife became very religous after they had been married 25 years or so. He is not so religous. Their common interests went down to going out to dinner and their kids and grand kids. She has not had sex with him in years. He has spoken to her about trying to come back together both sexually and emotionally. She doesn't think there are any problems or if there are, she doesn't want to talk about them. Being so religous now she also does not want a divorce and of course him cheating is against her religous beliefs. So this guy is a complete asshole if he seeks out companionship on the side and decides not to devastate the two of them financially with a divorce? You could interchange the male and female roles here no problem. If I were the guy I would divorce the wife. Not being intimate would be a deal breaker for me
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Apr 11, 2014 15:49:16 GMT -5
...:::"Marrying someone with similar sexual appetites would alleviate most of the stress.":::...
Good advice. Also, you can minimize your medical expenses if you just plain don't get sick!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2014 15:49:24 GMT -5
He has a choice, he just doesn't like it. He wants sex and his wife isn't giving it to him. The logical conclusion is to leave and go find someone who will have sex with him. He is CHOOSING to stay for financial reasons (honorable, my ass!) so he is equally at fault.
This is just my opinion, and they're just like a-holes, right?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 11, 2014 15:49:42 GMT -5
I don't believe the wife has to want a divorce in order for him to proceed with one.
Is being miserable in a marriage and adding further complications by bringing in another woman really worth avoiding divorce over?
The kids are grown so that just leaves money and stuff to fight over. If he's really as miserable as you claim I can't see how stuff/money is worth staying for. You can always get more of both of those.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Apr 11, 2014 15:50:21 GMT -5
Let's break this down to the basics... the very word cheating means not playing by the rules, right?::
A colloquial term applied to a situation doesn't mean the strict definition fits.
It's a term people opposed to the act use to describe those who do that act. It's no different than me arguing that some "douchebag" is quite literally a bag made out of douche. It's an expression created to assign a specific emotion.
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kittensaver
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We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
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Post by kittensaver on Apr 11, 2014 15:50:47 GMT -5
Please enlighten us then. When is it acceptable for the person who vowed to love, honor and cherish you whom you trust implicitly goes behind your back, completely disrespects you and your marriage and destroys that trust just to get his "needs" met? The answer is NEVER for me. I know one guy who's wife became very religous after they had been married 25 years or so. He is not so religous. Their common interests went down to going out to dinner and their kids and grand kids. She has not had sex with him in years. He has spoken to her about trying to come back together both sexually and emotionally. She doesn't think there are any problems or if there are, she doesn't want to talk about them. Being so religous now she also does not want a divorce and of course him cheating is against her religous beliefs. So this guy is a complete asshole if he seeks out companionship on the side and decides not to devastate the two of them financially with a divorce? You could interchange the male and female roles here no problem. Okay, so taking this situation apart: She has made a choice: she doesn't want to talk about their lack of emotional and sexual connection/committment. She is unwilling to make changes and he's unhappy. He feels she is not upholding her end of the marriage bargain. She can think, do and believe what she wants, but she does not have control over his actions. She is free to believe what she wants, but is not free from the consequences of that belief. So HE needs to make HIS choices based on the fact that he cannot control her actions. To me, the most honest thing would be to get out of the relationship. Sounds like there's really not much of one there anyway. But maybe that's just me . . .
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