muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Feb 11, 2014 11:13:33 GMT -5
Yeah, I didn't make it through her post to make it make sense before I posted. That seems like a dumb way to handle it. Being scared to tell the teacher. WTF. We are adults, lets handle it that way. Yes there is a little girl involved, but the adults in the situation should act that way and not make threats. That is dumb.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Feb 11, 2014 11:14:08 GMT -5
I didn't say she was worked up. I just said it appears she went in and said her piece. I kind of like the fact there are people who will stand up for others when those others are too afraid (for whatever reason) to do it for themselves. I wouldn't stand by either and watch a child get mistreated just because that child wasn't mine. This is assuming, of course, that we have the entire story...and we all know what they say about assumptions!
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Feb 11, 2014 11:14:20 GMT -5
Well, managing restroom breaks is probably a very difficult thing to do. Kids are not allowed to mill in an out of the classroom unsupervised anymore. But, of course if a child needs to go , they should go. But, not sure a teacher is going to know a child has a wet behind as you can't always see that depending on what they are wearing.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Feb 11, 2014 11:16:30 GMT -5
I agree, Shooby. I also know that when a person decides on teaching as a career - especially at the elementary level - they have to expect some difficulties. If the kitchen is too hot....
No way I could do it. The kids would be fun, mostly. The parents would be a nightmare.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Feb 11, 2014 11:18:24 GMT -5
Nancy...policies probably vary from school to school, but if you have a child in a school here and go in and ask to speak to administration, you get in. We don't have armed guards at doors. We don't have resource officers. In fact, the doors aren't even locked. It was no issue then, nor is it an issue now to get in to the school to talk to people in charge. Different time? Yes. Different place? Nope. Not saying the security is tight in any way, but it sort of depends where you live. It would not be an issue here and probably won't be until something bad happens.
It appears, according to Looney, that she did get in and said her piece. Since she's posting, she evidently didn't get arrested either.
Loony does not have a child in the school. Her job was to butt out. Your case was different, and of course, entirely legitimate. Oh, and I'm sure the teachers/principal took Loony seriously.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 11, 2014 11:19:29 GMT -5
like the fact there are people who will stand up for others when those others are too afraid (for whatever reason) to do it for themselves. I wouldn't stand by either and watch a child get mistreated just because that child wasn't mine
If mom had gone in with Loony I'd sorta agree with you. But since mom hid in the car there is zero proof Loony even knows the child. For all the principal knows Loony is some random crazy who got into her office.
The mother should be handling it, loony needs to butt out. Instead she's demanding an investigation based on a third hand story.
And to be expected to be included in any conferences or informed of results, IMO, is insane. I wouldn't want my school sharing those things with total strangers. Other parents involved, fine. But somebody who has no ties to the school? I don't think so.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 11, 2014 11:21:22 GMT -5
Yes, tloonya, adults are expected to post responsibly. Thing is, that doesn't only apply to everyone other than you. It also applies to you. You're on this message board by choice, just like everyone else. If you ask a question, or post a situation, any member has a right to respond - and they will. There is no reason for them to dance on eggshells because they don't agree with you. You, on the other hand, will refrain from insulting, name-calling, and baiting. You've been told before - more than a few times. You've been told in this thread by the board's owner, moonbeam. Adults are supposed to know how to deal with other adults, just as you say. Insults, name-calling and baiting are not adult ways of dealing with others. I'd suggest you keep that firmly in mind. mmhmm, Administrator
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2014 11:23:25 GMT -5
When I was in first grade, our teacher would not allow us to go to the bathroom unless it was during the bathroom break. I actually did pee my pants at school one time when she wouldn't let me go and just dealt with it the whole day. I think when I went out to recess, I tried playing in the snow so I could say I was just wet from playing in the snow I don't know if it's a danger to the kid, but maybe it was traumatizing since it's one of the only things I remembered from 1st grade nearly 30 years later. Good thing most kids are oblivious. That teacher was like 70 years old and this was in 1984, so maybe that was common practice back then. Nowadays, my wife (a teacher) says the kids can go whenever they need to.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Feb 11, 2014 11:24:10 GMT -5
I see your point, Drama, but I don't think from what I'm gathering from posts, that this is the normal, everyday situation. I could be way off here, but I'm not sure the family in question is familiar and comfortable with the way things works. Sometimes, when people come from somewhere else, they are afraid of standing out - of being noticed. This is what I'm getting from Looney's posts.
I totally get that most people think she should have stayed out of it. If the situation is anything like I think it is, I'm glad she didn't. I know nobody agrees. That's ok.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Feb 11, 2014 11:27:16 GMT -5
It's not unusual for families who come here from other countries to think they have no recourse - no voice. It's not unusual for them to think they just have to accept the treatment handed to them and they are too afraid to make waves. I'm gathering this is the situation with this particular family. I just wish them the best.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 11, 2014 11:31:32 GMT -5
I have nothing against wanting some support/back-up or bringing someone to interpret. Hiding in the car while, as far as the prinicpal knows, a total stranger handles the problem isn't the best way to solve anything.
What Loony thinks is going to happen probably won't. She has zero proof of any kind of relationship with the child. They will want to talk to the child's mother. Any "investigation" done will be discussed with the mother, no way is the school going to handle things thru Loony.
She's not the child's mother/guardian or in any type of legal way a representatitve of the mother. She has no authority to demand anything.
The school will only handle things thru the parents or whoever the parents/state authorize to handle matters with the child. No way is the prinicpal going to risk her neck because Loony might go to "the media".
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Feb 11, 2014 11:32:33 GMT -5
I see your point, Drama, but I don't think from what I'm gathering from posts, that this is the normal, everyday situation. I could be way off here, but I'm not sure the family in question is familiar and comfortable with the way things works. Sometimes, when people come from somewhere else, they are afraid of standing out - of being noticed. This is what I'm getting from Looney's posts. I totally get that most people think she should have stayed out of it. If the situation is anything like I think it is, I'm glad she didn't. I know nobody agrees. That's ok. I'm ok with her being involved, but she need to be involved in less confrontational manner. She needed the parent to be the lead and her to interpret, speak up when needed, but she can't just walk into a school and make threats and expect results.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Feb 11, 2014 11:34:53 GMT -5
The awesome thing about schools being built today is that in most schools, at least K and 1st grade all have bathrooms in the classroom. A lot of them have them in the classroom until 3rd grade. Actually my ancient elementary school had a bathroom in the kindergarten classroom and the 1st and 2nd grade were connected by a bathroom.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Feb 11, 2014 11:36:52 GMT -5
I totally understand where everyone is coming from and absolutely agree that any discussion should be civil. I'm just not all that hung up on "who has a right" and such. I'm worried about the kid. But? As someone told me in another thread, kids are pretty resilient and things that I think would bother them don't even make them blink.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 11, 2014 11:43:59 GMT -5
I'm just not all that hung up on "who has a right" and such
But the school will be. It should spell out in the handbook how these things are handled. I know with the daycare any investigation involving my kid stays with myself/DH, whomever is involved, the director and if need be the state.
If my MIL came thru the door demanding they handle some issue based on a story she claims she heard from me, nothing would happen. She has no authority over Gwen. She can scream all she wants but unless she's got proof nothing's going to come of it.
What would probably happen in that instance is the director would call myself/DH immeadiately and insist we come to discuss things because my MIL is in her office right now making claims.
IF the principal doesn't totally write Loony off I'm betting she'll be waiting with the teacher after class to talk to the mother.
The mother is going to have to step up or let it go if she can't handle being confrontational. The school isn't going to do anything based on Loony's word for it and threats.
ETA: if another PARENT heard me talk about something and was concerned while they couldn't discuss Gwen they could address the general issue. The other parent is also a paying customer and has the right to have her concerns addressed.
My MIL, who has no proof she's related to Gwen unless we vaildate it, can march in there all day and demand they investigate and she be told the results. It won't happen
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Feb 11, 2014 11:49:23 GMT -5
And the fact that Loony was not arrested/cited at the time of the incident does not mean she cannot be later on. Remember, she did leave her personal information with the principal. That principal, or the teacher, can call authorities later and report her if they feel they need to. There's a statute of limitations, but it's not an hour or a day.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Feb 11, 2014 11:53:00 GMT -5
I'm just not all that hung up on "who has a right" and such
But the school will be. It should spell out in the handbook how these things are handled. I know with the daycare any investigation involving my kid stays with myself/DH, whomever is involved, the director and if need be the state. If my MIL came thru the door demanding they handle some issue based on a story she claims she heard from me, nothing would happen. She has no authority over Gwen. She can scream all she wants but unless she's got proof nothing's going to come of it. What would probably happen in that instance is the director would call myself/DH immeadiately and insist we come to discuss things because my MIL is in her office right now making claims. IF the principal doesn't totally write Loony off I'm betting she'll be waiting with the teacher after class to talk to the mother. The mother is going to have to step up or let it go if she can't handle being confrontational. The school isn't going to do anything based on Loony's word for it and threats. ETA: if another PARENT heard me talk about something and was concerned while they couldn't discuss Gwen they could address the general issue. The other parent is also a paying customer and has the right to have her concerns addressed. My MIL, who has no proof she's related to Gwen unless we vaildate it, can march in there all day and demand they investigate and she be told the results. It won't happen I disagree. While the school will probably not let Looney know what they are doing, they will dang well do something. I have no doubt of that. If you go into the school and tell them you heard Larry is bullying Charlie and neither Larry or Charlie are your children, the school isn't going to let you know how their investigation turns out, but they sure as heck are going to investigate. And I'm thinking that's all Looney really wants anyway.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Feb 11, 2014 11:58:23 GMT -5
And the fact that Loony was not arrested/cited at the time of the incident does not mean she cannot be later on. Remember, she did leave her personal information with the principal. That principal, or the teacher, can call authorities later and report her if they feel they need to. There's a statute of limitations, but it's not an hour or a day. I'm lost here, Nancy. Why are we going on about being arrested? I assure you, I'm quite knowledgeable about statutes of limitations and such. I'm just not sure what the point is. Why is Looney going to be arrested? Sorry if I missed something. It's been a bit of a rough morning.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 11, 2014 11:59:42 GMT -5
I'm calling BS on the whole new story. School will NOT discuss a child with someone not the parent, period, and if this mom was so chicken shit that she hid in the car, I'm betting her child never told the teacher she needed to use the restroom to begin with. I don't check out anyone's clothes so if the kid isn't obviously wet, I'm never going to know that he or she ever wet their pants.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 11, 2014 12:07:46 GMT -5
Unless the mother or the child are willing to confirm Loony's story the principal might ask about the situation but there isn't going to be any investigation/conferences or emails about it. Especially involving Loony.
The parties involved are going to have to cooperate if they really want this "investigated". The mother can't hide in the car and let Loony do the dirty work.
I can understand the cultural barrier but what Loony posted is totally unrealistic and just won't happen. She can shriek about calling the papers all she wants but investigations and conferences aren't going to be conducted based on her word for it. She has zero proof of anything.
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Feb 11, 2014 12:10:42 GMT -5
I'm calling BS on the whole new story. School will NOT discuss a child with someone not the parent, period, and if this mom was so chicken shit that she hid in the car, I'm betting her child never told the teacher she needed to use the restroom to begin with. I don't check out anyone's clothes so if the kid isn't obviously wet, I'm never going to know that he or she ever wet their pants. Sorry, breaking promise. School didn't discussed it with Loony. Principal was silent most of the time. I think she knew. ...going back in hiding.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 11, 2014 12:16:42 GMT -5
Principal was silent most of the time. I think she knew
OR she was doing the responsible/legal thing and not discussing the subject with a random stranger who has no legal standing concerning the child and has no proof she even knows the kid involved.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Feb 11, 2014 12:19:43 GMT -5
Again, I disagree. Let's say your daughter comes home from school and tells you something that is upsetting to you - some treatment of another child. Let's say you even go so far as to call the child's mom/dad and let them know what your child told you. The parents tell you - for whatever reason - they are afraid to get involved. Then, let's say you decide anyway that doing nothing is not the route to take and you go to the school to let them know what your child said about mistreatment of another child, if for no other reason than it could be your child next time. I would, because I'd rather be safe than sorry.
Do you honestly think the school is going to do nothing because they child in question isn't yours? I understand totally that things are different depending on where you live, but in most places I know, the administration is going to look into the matter. As I stated before, you probably won't be privy to any results of that investigation, but one will occur. And if it doesn't, you should look into taking your daughter to a different school.
Allegations of mistreatment of a child don't need "facts" to be investigated. You don't have to trust my word on this, but it's true. Most investigations stem from allegations. Some are are unfounded. Some are not. But you can't gather facts without starting an investigation. I fully believe an investigation will be conducted. It may very well be found the teacher is blameless for reasons several people have stated. It may be that she isn't found blameless. Either way, Looney will probably not hear a thing unless it's from the parent involved, but there is no doubt in my mind that if she went to that school and complained, an investigation will be conducted. And that, in my opinion, was the whole point.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Feb 11, 2014 12:19:52 GMT -5
Principal was silent most of the time. I think she knew
OR she was doing the responsible/legal thing and not discussing things with a random stranger who has no legal standing concerning the child. Schools don't discuss students' situations with any Tom, Dick, or Harry who walks into the office demanding things about other people's children. Of course the principal didn't say anything of consequence to Looney, who has no business in the matter.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Feb 11, 2014 12:22:51 GMT -5
GEL, I agree that it's possible someone will look into the matter, but that Looney won't be in on the conversation sans real parent (and nor should she be). I'm not sure I'd go so far as to call it an 'investigation', but I suspect someone will follow up on it in some manner.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2014 12:23:42 GMT -5
Whatever happens or doesn't happen, LOONY had her say and she feels better now. And isn't that what's important??!
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Feb 11, 2014 12:24:44 GMT -5
GEL, I agree that it's possible someone will look into the matter, but that Looney won't be in on the conversation sans real parent (and nor should she be). I'm not sure I'd go so far as to call it an 'investigation', but I suspect someone will follow up on it in some manner. I agree that "investigation" was probably not the correct word. Your "look into the matter" is a much better way of wording it.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 11, 2014 12:27:34 GMT -5
Let's say you even go so far as to call the child's mom/dad and let them know what your child told you. The parents tell you - for whatever reason - they are afraid to get involved. Then, let's say you decide anyway that doing nothing is not the route to take and you go to the school to let them know what your child said about mistreatment of another child, if for no other reason than it could be your child next time. I would, because I'd rather be safe than sorry.
In that scenario I'm a parent whose child also goes to the school. The adminstration knows me. I'm not a random person off the street barging into the princpals office and making accusations.
Loony is for all intensive purposes a random stranger to the principal. She has no clue if Loony even knows this child or is a schizophrenic off her meds. Why is there any reason to take Loony seriously?
The prinicpal, I am betting, will be waiting for the mother after school. At any rate the school would want the mother to know some random person was in the office asking about her child.
If the mother never speaks up more than likely nothing will be done. If it was another parent or anybody who had legal standing it'd be different. Loony is a random person off the street.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 11, 2014 12:29:02 GMT -5
I totally understand where everyone is coming from and absolutely agree that any discussion should be civil. I'm just not all that hung up on "who has a right" and such. I'm worried about the kid. But? As someone told me in another thread, kids are pretty resilient and things that I think would bother them don't even make them blink. What we sometimes overlook when it comes to kids is our impact on that kid. The kid is much less likely to go into meltdown if the parent doesn't treat the emergent situation as a disaster in the making. When things are handled calmly by adults, kids are less likely to make a big deal out of it. Most of the time, a calm talking-through of the incident is all that's needed to put the child's mind at ease. They just want to know they're okay, and they're loved. When they've got that, they tend to roll with the punches a lot better.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Feb 11, 2014 12:29:18 GMT -5
She has no clue if Loony even knows this child or is a schizophrenic off her meds. Why is there any reason to take Loony seriously? Haven't we all asked this question at some point...?
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