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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2011 15:51:54 GMT -5
But if your status as an upper class white muckitty-muck is at stake by only having one kid, that is priceless. I'm proudly white trash. Rich white trash. They have enough money to really annoy you with their white trashiness. The worst of the worst...
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 23, 2011 15:53:27 GMT -5
I'm proudly white trash. Rich white trash. They have enough money to really annoy you with their white trashiness. The worst of the worst... Yeah, I have a nice double wide and a nice pickup truck. And all my appliances are inside my house.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Feb 23, 2011 16:09:56 GMT -5
My mom is 47 and stepfather is 55, my brother just turned 9 this Feb and sister will turn 8 this june. Holy crap, so they'll be 57 and 65 at the earliest before the kids are out of the house. That just seems crazy to me. I mean, we had ours younger than I'd recommend to almost anyone, but I can't imagine wanting a house full of younger kids well into your fifties and sixties.
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Post by debtheaven on Feb 23, 2011 16:39:31 GMT -5
He has (gasp) video games, a tv in his room and a fb account.Sheila I feel that this post is directed at me because of what I posted on Doxie's thread yesterday. I'm sorry, I think you're a wonderful, concerned, active mom. And my DS3 has a FB account too LOL. But have you ever considered that if you have four kids rather than one, it's easier to just nix those things rather than attempt to both purchase them AND constantly regulate them, for FOUR kids? Waffle, I had the same thoughts about elderly parents because DH is an only child. His aunt and uncle were very helpful with his aging parents but he went back to the UK (we're in France, Gd bless the Eurostar lol) a MINIMUM of every third weekend, and very often much more than that. For two years. Dark, I had never heard that expression either. We had DS3 later in life because I had three kids from a previous marriage, and although DH was happily raising mine, he had no "biokids" of his own. We weren't that old when DS3 was born, 39 and 43. But the three older kids were just 11, and nearly 9 and 6 when DS3 was born. Today they are 12, 18, 22 and 24. A big age difference, for sure. But we are SO THANKFUL to have DS3, he is the light of our lives. I can see parents wanting to do that. I don't think it's right, but I can understand the temptation. When you've been doing it for decades and you feel like it's all you know, I can see being tempted. Again, I don't think it's right though, and I would never do it myself nor advocate anybody else doing it. It is indeed against the natural order of things. My only sister is 13 years older than me, and literally every time my dad would happily and wonderfully take care of my two nieces (his first grandkids, my kids came along many years later) my dad would always quip a common Yiddish expression, Gd knew what he was doing when he gave babies to young people. We are the only ones in our "old" group of friends to still have a kid in MS, and the only ones in our "new" group of friends to have kids in and even out of grad school. It makes for knowing a great variety of people LOL.
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Post by soon2bmomof3 on Feb 23, 2011 16:43:45 GMT -5
My brother is 17 this past November. He still has one more year left. My parents are 59 and 61.
For the baby of the family, he's turned out all right. Recently made National Merit Scholar, top 10% of his graduating class (will probably be one of 10 or so valedictorians).
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Feb 23, 2011 16:54:06 GMT -5
Dark, I had never heard that expression either. Well, I don't know if the expression is a thing or not. I don't remember if it's something I made up or heard somewhere else. We weren't that old when DS3 was born, 39 and 43. But the three older kids were 11, 9 and 6. That's kind of what I was talking about, but your kids just look somewhat spaced out. Some of my daughters classmates have something more like, older brother and sister were 17 and 20 when they were born. There's one or two, usually close together if it's more than one, and then a 15-18 year gap before the youngest one comes along. I don't know if it's the parents not being ready to have an empty house or what. Like I said, most of them had the first one or two pretty young, so it might just be that the second time around they're more emotionally or financially ready to "do it right" or something. I don't know, it doesn't make sense to me.
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Agatha
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Post by Agatha on Feb 23, 2011 16:55:51 GMT -5
So am I, Archie. Of course, I'm also the only girl and my younger brother could be termed the "afterthought" as I turned 12 the year he was born. I wonder? Does that make me the middle child or the baby (albeit briefly)? And which one of us was the problem child? All of us had our problems and caused our mother grief I know. I also know she wouldn't have traded any of us for any thing or any one. AudreyAlyce. . .nine?? I don't think I'd ask for a return shipping label But I will say one of my deepest fears is either my daughter-in-law not wanting me near their children and/or a divorce where me getting to see them is like pulling dragon teeth. P.S. On a lighter note, my grandmother always said grandkids were just fine. It was the great-grandkids who got on her nerves. But then again we counted 34 of those when my mother and I submitted her obit.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Feb 23, 2011 17:11:52 GMT -5
But, I'm actually looking at this from a perspective that I haven't seen any one hit on. When you are an only child and there is a problem with an ill or aging parent - who has to deal with it? - the only child. No siblings to turn to for support or advice. I find that a stressful place to be. I have seen instances in my extended family, where siblings supported each other in similar times and I admit, (here in anonymous land) that I'm a bit jealous of that.Agreed. Like I said, when my parents die I'll be on my own. And if they get sick beforehand, or need financial assistance or anything like that - I only have myself to fall back on. There's a reason onlies tend to be so independent - we have no choice! I have ruined him for life. Never mind that he is well liked, a straight A student, perfectly happy with his only child status and has a wicked funny sense of humor. Yep- better start pre-paying his therapy now.Hey! Sheila! Did you miss where I said I was glad to hear of a well-adjusted only?! For the record, I was never in therapy over this. Just because I didn't like it doesn't mean that I was messed up over it.
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Post by debtheaven on Feb 23, 2011 17:13:52 GMT -5
There's one or two, usually close together if it's more than one, and then a 15-18 year gap before the youngest one comes along.
Of course everything is relative, but despite our 11/12 year gap between the oldest and the youngest (depending on the month), 15 to 18 years does seem enormous to me too. I thought 11 was huge LOL.
Dark, I do think some of this has to do with divorce and recomposed families. But not all of it. Age differences have always been around. My first two are less than 20 months apart. Two boys, less than 20 months apart, who just did not get along. I remember praying to Gd that neither would kill the other before age 18, because I figured if they both made it to that age it would work out. At 16 and 17 they became best friends. Now they are 22 and 24 and they are still best friends.
My only sibling (my sister, 13 years older than me, with whom I am extremely close) got shite because when she'd walk me in my carriage she would get comments about what a very young mother she was LOL.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Feb 23, 2011 17:16:56 GMT -5
No siblings to turn to for support or advice.
To expand on this a little, part of the reason I always wished for a sibling was because as great as my dad is, he was very tough to live with when I was a kid. He and I had a very strained relationship, and there was a lot of fault on both sides but basically - it was rough.
I firmly believe - and so does he, now - that another kid would've really lightened the tension between us. He would have had someone else to focus on besides me; I would have had someone there who understood what I was going through. Plus, he might not have taken it quite as hard as he did when we didn't "click" the way my mom and I did.
So that's really the primary reason I think siblings are best. When you're growing up, it's just best to have someone in the foxhole with you. You against the big people is not a great situation, especially if you have significant problems with one or both of the big people.
I'm aware it can also suck when parents favor / spoil one child over the other, etc. etc. There are ALWAYS multiple ways to look at anything; I'm just presenting the only-child side as I lived it.
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Post by debtheaven on Feb 23, 2011 17:23:39 GMT -5
Firebird I have to agree.
My DH's mom was 23 years younger than his dad. Of course everybody expected him to go first, but he didn't, she did.
I remember driving my late FIL (in his early 80s then) and him telling me, I have only one regret in life, my wife desperately wanted a second child and I refused. If I had known how (my DH) had turned out, I would have had 10.
It was SUCH a heartbreaking testimony. And it confirmed to me what I already knew, one rarely regrets what they do, they generally regret what they DON'T do.
By the way, despite the distance and erratic schedule, both of DH's parents died in his arms. My DH rocks.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 23, 2011 17:36:42 GMT -5
Whenever I think of rich white trash I think of the Hogans. Must be cuz I live in Clearwater. The neighbors cheered when they moved to Miami but too bad they didn't stay.
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Post by dragonfly7 on Feb 23, 2011 18:40:43 GMT -5
Oh, so much to chime in on. On only children: Just like everything else in the world, there are multiple factors that go into how an only child turns out and if that person liked being an only child. Me? I was an only child until the age of six. I hated it because as a farm kid, I somewhat grew up in geographic isolation. Between being a mile from the nearest neighbors with children, the oldest grandchild by six years, and not attending church, the only children I knew were at my baby-sitter's. Adding in a parent who worked for the school system, I literally did not interact with other children for about three months out of the year. I begged my parents for a sibling, but I didn't find out until I was nearly an adult that my parents originally never intended to have more than me. Now as an adult, I wish my sister and I were closer in age because we've never really been able to relate to one another until adulthood. However, I think it was easier on my parents, emotionally and financially, to only have one child in high school (and then college) at a time. Since I spent so much time with adults, I still tend to get along better with people much older than me, but as I get older, the age gap doesn't matter. I have to take mental time-outs like another poster mentioned, but that is more related to being introverted than to having many only-child characteristics. "A lot of times, families get away with having so many kids by dumping a lot of the work on the older children." - Isn't this normal? Maybe just in my extended family. Echo kids: My family doesn't have any deliberate echo kids that I know of, but there were a few unintended pregnancies late in life because, due to decreased fertility, a few people stopped preventing pregnancy quite as diligently. For example, my mother is six years younger than her siblings, and one of my grandmothers is fourteen years younger than her sisters. On the original question: I think either 2 or 3 is considered "normal" anymore, depending on the genders involved. Based on personal observation, many families stop at two if they have a boy and a girl, and outsiders also stop asking when they'll have another. They proceed on to three if the first two are the same gender, and it seems to be a social expectation for them to do so. Beyond that, it's all up to them. Early in our marriage, I was adamant I would have two children, and no more. By age 30, assuming all was financially well with our personal world. This was my ideal mental plan, and it sounded right. DH wanted three (he is the oldest of three), so my compromise was, "Let's get through the first two, and then I'll let you know." However, life seldom goes according to plan. I have had two unplanned pregnancies. I miscarried my twins quite early. The second began at a financially stable time, but both DH and I were laid off during the course of that pregnancy, and then, our daughter died quite unexpectedly when she was two days old. In the year since then, I have realized that some of the wisest words I have ever read are, "What's comin' will come, an' we'll meet it when it does." (Rubeus Hagrid, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire) Life changes too fast, and too easily, to adhere to an ideal. Since my new idea of long-range planning isn't much more than a year or so out, we'll take our future children one (or two) at a time. If we get to five or six and find we can handle them all, so be it!
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Feb 23, 2011 19:19:12 GMT -5
debtheaven: my post was not directed at you. I don't even remember reading Doxie's thread yesterday. Sorry if it seemed like that. I was mostly thinking about my brother when I wrote that. He has all these rules about how much "screen time" his kids are allowed each week. 2 hours a week of tv, video games or computer time is the rule at his house. ETA: Ok- I tracked down the other tread and scrolled through it until I found your post. You are right it could have sounded like it was directed at you. It honestly wasn't. DS has a game system because DH wanted one
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Feb 23, 2011 19:29:31 GMT -5
Debtheaven: I have to say I am really sorry if I did offend you, that was never my intention.
Firebird: I tend to get a little sensitive because I feel like I am always having to justify my decisions to other people (in the real world too). It seems like you can never "win" there will always be people that think I am doing my son a disservice by him being an only child. It falls in line with the bf/bottle debate, the SAHM and working mom issues, etc.
Part of my wanting an only child comes from being one of 4. I am happy for all of you that have solid, healthy relationships with your siblings but that is not the case in my life. My sister and I went 4 years without speaking. Have only started speaking in the past year and we have a better relationship than I do with my brothers. My younger brother and I work together and it does not go well. On a daily basis he screams, swears, berates me etc. And he isn't even my boss! We both work for companies my dad owns but for two different companies. My older brother is brainwashed by the younger to assume my sister and I are evil B words. Every time he comes down he lectures us about treating DB better and being nicer to him. Every family holiday ends in at least one person crying or multiple people's feelings getting hurt. It is not a fun filled "lets all sit around and play scrabble" type of family environment. A therapist could retire off of my family we have so many issues.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Feb 23, 2011 19:40:27 GMT -5
Firebird: I tend to get a little sensitive because I feel like I am always having to justify my decisions to other people (in the real world too). It seems like you can never "win" there will always be people that think I am doing my son a disservice by him being an only child. It falls in line with the bf/bottle debate, the SAHM and working mom issues, etc.
For the record, I'm only speaking to my own experience (which I have found is typical, but not universal, of other only children I have known - and admittedly, I don't know that many). I know that your son is a great kid and that you guys adore him, and I know that you've got issues with your siblings. I probably wouldn't have another kid in your place, either.
I personally wouldn't be comfortable stopping at one unless I had no choice, because I disliked it so much. Also because, since I am an only and DBF has just one sister whose (only) daughter is already seven, it's unlikely that any kids of mine will have close cousins growing up to compensate for lack of siblings.
But seriously, I did not mean to imply that parents of onlies are bad parents, or shortchanging their kids or whatever. Again, I have fantastic parents. I wouldn't want any others, and I don't think they shortchanged me at all - they made the best decision they could for our family at the time. It's just that in my particular experience, siblings would have really been nice (most likely).
And the fact that both of them now regret not having more children definitely stings a little.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Feb 23, 2011 19:46:36 GMT -5
Also, the fact that your son LIKES being an only is really important. I could be wrong, but it sounds like you guys would have taken it into account (at least somewhat) if he wanted a sibling as badly as I did.
My parents asked me several times that I can recall if I wanted a sibling, and my answer was always a resounding and emphatic yes, and I always got my hopes up after they asked me that, only to not get one. I got a bit cranky about that. But if your son is happy, then I'm not criticizing. Honest.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2011 19:54:53 GMT -5
Dark, I had never heard that expression either. Well, I don't know if the expression is a thing or not. I don't remember if it's something I made up or heard somewhere else. We weren't that old when DS3 was born, 39 and 43. But the three older kids were 11, 9 and 6. That's kind of what I was talking about, but your kids just look somewhat spaced out. Some of my daughters classmates have something more like, older brother and sister were 17 and 20 when they were born. There's one or two, usually close together if it's more than one, and then a 15-18 year gap before the youngest one comes along. I don't know if it's the parents not being ready to have an empty house or what. Like I said, most of them had the first one or two pretty young, so it might just be that the second time around they're more emotionally or financially ready to "do it right" or something. I don't know, it doesn't make sense to me. In our case we are are 25, 23, 9 and 7. And for our parents it was combination of the following: -> My mom really wanted a girl; so they decided to try again and ended with another son. She talked my step dad into trying one more time and they ended up with their daughter. -> They each brought one child into the marriage, after 5 years they really wanted to have at least 1 child with each other (again deep down she wanted a girl so after my brother, they went for 2 kids with each other instead of the just 1)
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sj3339sta
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Post by sj3339sta on Feb 23, 2011 20:26:42 GMT -5
Eh....regardless if a couple has one kid or 20 kids, it is their choice and their choice only. There are pros and cons to everything in life, how many siblings, if any being one of them. Just enjoy the grandkids, no matter how many there are.
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kgb18
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Post by kgb18 on Feb 23, 2011 20:49:03 GMT -5
LOL. You haven't met my neighbor. She just had #5. Her kids are 10, 3, 2, 11 months and now 5 days old. She wants to have more.
I'm the oldest of three. All of my parents siblings each had three kids. My SIL has 4. We have one now and are planning to have another. We're going to stop at two for two reasons. 1) I'm getting too old to put my body through that; 2) We don't want to strap ourselves financially, and we want to be able to give our kids some fun things. The more you have, the harder that is. But I love being a mom, and I love kids. If our ages/money situation were different, I would definitely have more kids.
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kgb18
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Post by kgb18 on Feb 23, 2011 21:39:07 GMT -5
sheilaincali, I thought about stopping after one. At first because I had a difficult labor and delivery, and I'm nervous about what the next one could bring. Then because I almost felt guilty about having a second baby.
It's interesting that some people feel like they're taking away from their children by them being an "only" because a part of me feels like I would be taking away from DD by having more because then I couldn't devote everything I have to her. But then I think about my brothers and how close my family is, and I want her to have that.
The number of kids you have is a personal decision -- as you said, much like breast vs. bottle feeding and working vs. staying home -- and I don't think anyone should be criticized for their choices in any of those areas.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2011 21:46:00 GMT -5
Honestly... most of us feel that way at first kgb... its hard, when you're faced with how much you love that little creature, to think you could ever love ANOTHER one as much... but most of the time you just do... it may not be 'the same' but its equitable... I actually thought i should have another one right away BECAUSE i loved my first with such an all consuming passion that i felt instinctively, that if i put all of that, all of me, into just that one small being... well, i couldn't ask him to be my world alone... if that makes any sense at all... let him and his sister share the burden of being my world
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Feb 24, 2011 0:26:25 GMT -5
Dragonfly, I am very sorry for the loss of your children.
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Apple
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Post by Apple on Feb 24, 2011 1:35:19 GMT -5
Wow, the whole only child/middle child thing really blew up since I've been here...
My stand--I was #4 out of 5, my sister (#3) and I were shit on growing up. All the other kids were somehow "special"--"the oldest" (a girl), "the oldest son" and "the baby". Not being any of these life sucked. The oldest got to do what she wanted for the most part. The oldest son the same, but with even more privileges. The baby? Well, he's 27 next month and still lives at home working part time as a desk clerk in an economy hotel.
Life for my sister and me was pretty bad all the way around. I have several friends that were middle children, one of them had parents who bought two bikes at Christmas because they "couldn't afford three". They gave one to the oldest daughter and one to the youngest, the middle child was told she could "share" with them. Her whole life was like that. My sister still resents my parents for a lot of things, I just try to let it go.
I'm also a complete loner, want my privacy and have a huge "personal space bubble"--I don't think anything could make it much worse, even if I'd been an only child.
We're both doing well though, financially independant, on the path to retiring early, etc. Oh, and we're both in a "man's line of work" and are both good at what we do. Sometimes being a nobody in your family makes you better at what you are outside of it.
My son is an only child, love him to death, but I was not going to have kids. So I didn't have any more. What really threw me for a loop was people that would tell me how "wrong" it was to make him an only child, even when they knew his father left us when DS was 3 and I wasn't dating anyone. I finally got sick of it and gave one of two answers, either "you know, I think you're right! I should go have sex with some random guy just so my son has a sibling. Oh, and when I lose my job because I can't do it while I'm pregnant and completing college, would you mind paying all my bills, I mean, since it's so important to you?", or "I can't have any more kids (the truth). Want to rub it in? Tell me how bad I am? Thanks for that". True, not being able to have more kids was a choice, but I leave that part out--if they want to try to make me feel bad, I'll make them feel like a heel, I think I even made one girl cry, she was "so sorry"... Well, she might have learned to keep her mouth shut, ya think?
Anyway, people will do what they want, if they can financially and emotionally support them, it's the right thing for them. Some parents are just made to have large families, I'm not one of them. DS doesn't mind, he's said more than once he's glad he doesn't have any siblings.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Feb 24, 2011 6:29:31 GMT -5
I am a middle child of 3 we are each 15 months apart. I am glad I had siblings even if I didn't always like them growing up. Three is weird since we were always 2 against 1. Oldest was the special child, he got to do things because he was oldest like crossing the street when we weren't allowed, then when I was allowed my little brother got to also which seemed unfair. But now we are 63, 61 and 60 I am very grateful I have them. The oldest isn't much to us he lives a couple hundred miles away and we seldom see him. But he had a bunch of kids so now I have a bunch of nieces and nephews and great nieces and great nephews I wouldn't have had without him. Also at our age our siblings are the only people left who remember the way things were. I accidentally called my older brother this week, my cell phone dialed him when I wanted a nephew with the same name. We talked about an hour about his marriage, job and retirement plans. He may retire to Thailand, I didn't know he could read and write in Thai or he would want to live there all alone, he may divorce again. My little brother is the best thing that I could have, he has mom living with him and taking great care of her. He gave me my favorite nephew and niece. His daughter is the family entertainer now, she does all the holidays at her house. Her brother is my pinochle partner and we see him all the time.
Since I don't have kids if I didn't have brothers I would be alone in the world except my mom, after she passes I wouldn't have family left. Mom has one sister and was grateful to have her to help with their mom and now in their 80s are very close.
I think each family needs to do what they want for themselves but the decisions do matter longer than just childhood. Other people don't get to tell you want to do, you should only have children you want. Others shouldn't pressure you or try to make you feel bad about your choices. I can't have children and total strangers would ask why I didn't have any like it was any of their business. I took up lying to them.
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Apple
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Post by Apple on Feb 24, 2011 7:45:50 GMT -5
Snerd, did you pay attention? The bike thing wasn't me, but yes, if the oldest and the youngest are given bikes, and the middle child is the one without it, and it's not just the bikes but everything that worked out like that, yes, it's a bad thing. She was told "to share". You think her sisters ever let her ride their bikes? They were not given to "the kids" they were given to two specific children, with their names on it, for Christmas. Sometimes the oldest is shit on, but mostly it's the middle children. I also have issues with people resenting everything forever, but my sister does--she's not the most mature person I know though. Some actions are worse than others, but when resentment takes over your life it's time to move on. And yes, growing up, my life sucked. I'm low maintenance and don't require much attention, but that wasn't even the case. Not all of us can look back and think we had a wonderful childhood.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 24, 2011 8:41:51 GMT -5
Apple, I so get your pain and I'm sorry. It happened the same to my EX, the middle children were crap and treated as such. But his parents are a-holes to boot. I wouldn't buy any kid a bike if I couldn't buy them all one. I was an only child stuck in the middle of nowhere and it colors your world. I never planned on having kids, DS was an accident with bc and meds that counter-acted bc and me not knowing and the dr not telling me. But once I had DS there was NO WAY I was not going to have another because one, he was a boy, and two, I hated being an only child. So it was all about me and my wants which I think is true of why parents have kids. Sure isn't for the joy of pregnancy, childbirth, and the expenses of them!!! But another poster is exactly right. How many you want and can afford is YOUR business and no one else's. I hope my kids don't have kids, not that I will ever tell them that because it isn't my business and if they do, I will love them I am sure and treat them as best as I can.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Feb 24, 2011 9:51:57 GMT -5
Snerdley: you asked why I don't just quit? I have a few times. But my dad keeps asking me to come back. He pays me really well and aside from my a-hole brother I really like my job and my co-workers. I run the company that I work for. My dad and his business partner are out of the office probably 75% of the year. They are finalizing a plan to buy out the company and my role would increase even more. That said- I do still keep my eyes and ears open to any new job opportunities. As much as I like my job there will likely come day that it's either me or the moron.
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zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,866
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 24, 2011 9:54:34 GMT -5
Uh, if your dad doesn't want you to quit then why don't you ask him to shut your brother up once and for all because if he doesn't, you might just walk and then there's only going to be the brother.
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sheilaincali
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 17:55:24 GMT -5
Posts: 4,131
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Post by sheilaincali on Feb 24, 2011 10:42:10 GMT -5
Zib- that's my basic plan. I have been documenting it all because I know it will all come to a head one day.
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