milee
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Post by milee on Jan 2, 2014 14:17:59 GMT -5
I was raised in a protestant home and have had close friends from most all the major religions and some of the less-major ones (including Mennonite and Mormon), so am comfortable with the idea of religion. I'm also comfortable with the idea of separation of church and state, respecting people who don't believe, etc. This is a long winded way of saying I understand religion, am not pushy about it one way or another and am open to many views.
Years ago, a very successful businessman who I admired mentioned offhandedly that he didn't like to do business with people who volunteered their religion or their religious views in a business setting. That surprised me since he was devout and since at that point, I'd had mostly social dealings with people from various religions and figured business dealings would be similar. As cynical as his statement sounded, over the years I've become more convinced he is on to something. In my experience, on the whole people who mention God, Jesus or any religious phrase in a job interview or in a business setting have been (no PC way to say this) frankly less honest than those that haven't. Some of the least honest people I dealt with in auditing were the heavily religious ones.
I'm thinking about this because there's a thread about a type of dog. I wondered what exactly that type of dog looked like and one of the first few breeders sites had a prominent graphic saying "this family believes in Jesus!" and my reaction was, "not a breeder I'd buy from." Made me feel cynical and a little sad that this was my experience and reaction.
Am I alone in this? Who else feels this way? Or who else has had the opposite experience and seeks out religious people to transact business with?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2014 14:22:40 GMT -5
No. There is a local quarry that advertises with scripture. I'm always uncomfortable when husband buys from them. I never thought of it as an honesty issue, just that it weirds me out... I feel like business isn't the place.... But maybe it is a case of 'Thou doeth protest too much', or in this case, trying to say how 'good' I am, so that I don't actually have to show it...
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milee
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Post by milee on Jan 2, 2014 14:26:34 GMT -5
maybe it is a case of 'Thou doesn't protest too much', or in this case, trying to say how 'good' I am, so that I don't actually have to show it... That's what I've seen when it has come from people interviewing for a job.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Jan 2, 2014 14:27:08 GMT -5
I was raised in a protestant home and have had close friends from most all the major religions and some of the less-major ones (including Mennonite and Mormon), so am comfortable with the idea of religion. I'm also comfortable with the idea of separation of church and state, respecting people who don't believe, etc. This is a long winded way of saying I understand religion, am not pushy about it one way or another and am open to many views.
Years ago, a very successful businessman who I admired mentioned offhandedly that he didn't like to do business with people who volunteered their religion or their religious views in a business setting. That surprised me since he was devout and since at that point, I'd had mostly social dealings with people from various religions and figured business dealings would be similar. As cynical as his statement sounded, over the years I've become more convinced he is on to something. In my experience, on the whole people who mention God, Jesus or any religious phrase in a job interview or in a business setting have been (no PC way to say this) frankly less honest than those that haven't. Some of the least honest people I dealt with in auditing were the heavily religious ones.
I'm thinking about this because there's a thread about a type of dog. I wondered what exactly that type of dog looked like and one of the first few breeders sites had a prominent graphic saying "this family believes in Jesus!" and my reaction was, "not a breeder I'd buy from." Made me feel cynical and a little sad that this was my experience and reaction.
Am I alone in this? Who else feels this way? Or who else has had the opposite experience and seeks out religious people to transact business with? Me, too. Seems that most people who claim a high level of religious virtue seem to believe that they will recieve forgiveness at the gates to heaven. And that their professed religious commitment confers on them the assurance that all of their transgressions will be forgiven. So, they really don't have a lot of incentive to be particularly virtuous during the time they spend with us. What they forget is that God forgives. Tskeeter does not. Tskeeter gets even. And buys marshmallows. Cause we're pretty sure about where he's goin.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jan 2, 2014 14:30:00 GMT -5
The biggest asshat of an attorney to deal with here always ends his conversations with "God Bless you" even when you didn't sneeze.
A local landlord/former business owner who was very active in the Catholic Church/very vocal about what a good Catholic he was would throw his own mother under the bus for $1.
I also find that most people who are the loudest at proclaiming their religion are the biggest hypocrites.
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steph08
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Post by steph08 on Jan 2, 2014 14:30:48 GMT -5
I hate people/businesses that try to shove religion down your throat. There's a new frozen yogurt place in town, I don't know, maybe it's everywhere. It's called sweetFrog - Frog stands for Fully Rely on God. That is too much for me. Also the most 'devout' Christian family that I know is also the most judgmental and inconsiderate.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Jan 2, 2014 14:31:08 GMT -5
As a strongly religious person, it also turns me off to see this kind of thing. Not always, though. I loved the catholic hospital where we delivered Aubree (specifically chosen due to our circumstances and their overall views even though we are not catholic), and there are some specific book stores I like. But I don't really care to see it at the mechanic's or the insurance agent's office, if that makes sense. I've had the same experience of getting bad service or dishonest interactions with those that seem to be the most vocal about it.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Jan 2, 2014 14:31:09 GMT -5
Milee, I'm with you on this one, for a number of reasons:
Like you, I was raised in an ethnically and religiously diverse community. Still live in one, for that matter. And I cannot imagine things any other way. But when someone puts religion front and center where religious preferences have no bearing on the subject matter at hand, I tend to think:
1) What is this person trying to hide? Are they "flashing" their religion in an effort to blind me to something else?
2) Are they trying to let me know that their beliefs are paramount, and that everyone else who believes in anything else is not as good?
3) Are they letting me know that they will follow their beliefs first and foremost, even to the point where injury and insult may occur to someone else?
4)Are they trying to impress me with style because of a lack of true substance?
5) Do they really believe in their hearts or is it parroting a phrase in the hopes of getting hired, getting more business, etc.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not cynical to the point where I think everyone is faking. But yes, my Spidey sense gets up when I hear it.
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chen35
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Post by chen35 on Jan 2, 2014 14:32:34 GMT -5
I am pretty religious, and I vote that it's really weird to bring something like that up in an interview. Even if you know the interviewer is the same religion, how is that relevant, exactly? That would put me off.<br>
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Jan 2, 2014 14:32:54 GMT -5
maybe it is a case of 'Thou doesn't protest too much', or in this case, trying to say how 'good' I am, so that I don't actually have to show it... That's what I've seen when it has come from people interviewing for a job. In my daily interactions with customers and agencies granting $$ on accounts, these are the worst two groups to deal with. I love the "God Bless You" that really comes across as a "Go F- yourself". So pleasant.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2014 14:35:26 GMT -5
The only time I went in a SweetFrog we were on vacation and I didn't realize what it was... Of course son commented. They just put one in about 45 minutes away. I'm not sure of we'll go or not...
sam, I think it makes a difference if faith or mission are important to why you are choosing the product/service...
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jan 2, 2014 14:36:39 GMT -5
There is a construction company that we deal with from time to time that's very religious (Baptist) and he has either an ad for his church, the church's preschool or a pro-life ad on every one of his trucks. Makes me uncomfortable. My dad's previous business partner at one of the companies was very religious (Baptist) and I know after he retired and dad bought him out people started mentioning things. Apparently they did not appreciate him quoting the bible to them when they'd stop in to drop off the mail or parts.
I'm an atheist and while I claim to understand religion I really don't. I respect people's right to have their own opinions and beliefs but if I'm being 100% honest I just plain don't get it.
DH and I only get things from Hobby Lobby that we can't get elsewhere because we are not comfortable with their super religious views. But that's just me. Your average Catholic shopper or whatever probably doesn't notice the religious signs and decorations.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Jan 2, 2014 14:39:09 GMT -5
This brings back memories of when I worked for a gentleman who was very religious. We were completely remodeling our building inside. It was up to me to get estimates from all sorts of places like carpet, cabinets, etc.
Guy came in for carpet estimate and started with the religious comments. When he left my boss said scratch his company from the list. He did not like trying to use religion to sell. This happened on one other occasion and this vendor knew boss and guess he also would use the religion sell. He was a no also.
I was surprised. And until then I really never gave it a thought.
I always think of the "one who does protest to much" or "who are you trying to convince - me or you"?
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Jan 2, 2014 14:40:54 GMT -5
It really bothers me that our church has bumper stickers/magnets available. 1) No way it's going on my car - not going to scratch or ruin the paint. Ughghg. 2) Who the heck ever picked a church based off a bumper sticker? 3) The only time people will notice is when someone is driving like a jack-hole. Then they will know that apparently XYZ church is where idiots and assholes go and they will make note to stay far away.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jan 2, 2014 14:41:31 GMT -5
I live in a very religious area and OMG do the commercials of places that profess to be devout drive me NUTS. I want to go smack the asshats. My previous employers would tell you "what good Christians they are". Right to your face as they stab you the back. My current boss is a very devout man. He has a lot of faith, but he doesn't talk about it. He just runs his business in a way that reflects his beliefs. If you really believe it, you don't need to advertise it.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Jan 2, 2014 14:41:49 GMT -5
Also, I will say, this is my biggest beef with Dave Ramsey. I feel like he uses Bible verses to sell his products to churches. Nothing wrong with someone making an honest living, but he seems shady to me.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jan 2, 2014 14:42:12 GMT -5
I cannot recall doing business with anyone who mentioned their faith. I do most of my transactions either online or through major national retailers. It just never comes up.
As far as a hypothetical situation, I don't think I'd care one way or the other. The only way it might be an issue is if I wanted to keep them focused on the task at hand. Let's say I go into a store and want to buy something. If the clerk started talking about religion, I'd likely politely listen for a little bit but after a while I'd try to get them back to business. That would be a annoyance, but people getting off topic doesn't necessarily have anything to do with religion. People can get off topic with sports or anything else just as easily.
I would not avoid a faith based business based on their faith alone.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jan 2, 2014 14:43:04 GMT -5
I wouldn't hire somebody that mentioned their religion in an interview. Not that I have anything against organized religion, but I'd think anyone mentioning it in that setting has a pretty good chance of yammering at me about salvation all day at work, and nobody likes that shit, even other religious people.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jan 2, 2014 14:43:11 GMT -5
He has a lot of faith, but he doesn't talk about it. He just runs his business in a way that reflects his beliefs. If you really believe it, you don't need to advertise it.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jan 2, 2014 14:43:26 GMT -5
I love the "God Bless You" that really comes across as a "Go F- yourself". So pleasant.
We lived in North Carolina for a while and my friends there taught me about the "Bless Your Heart!" So I use that now.
I feel a little like a traitor but one of my best friends is a WASP from New England and I let her in on that little secret, so now she knows that whenever a Southerner (or someone who understands Southern ways) says that to her, it's not what it sounds like.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jan 2, 2014 14:46:05 GMT -5
There is a diner that I often go to with the family. The owner is deeply religious, holds a bible study there during the weekdays, and has a few stickers on their door to indicate their religious beliefs. However, other than the stickers on the door, the bible study, and a bible quote in small print on the menu, you would never know it. Whatever, I still go there because nobody is trying to actively convert me.
If the waitresses were to preach at me though, I'd be outta there.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jan 2, 2014 14:48:19 GMT -5
It's kind of ironic when people are that vocal and public with their faith. The bible specifically discourages publicly proclaiming how virtuous you are. Instead telling you to keep your good works between you and God.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jan 2, 2014 14:50:17 GMT -5
The biggest asshat of an attorney to deal with here always ends his conversations with "God Bless you" even when you didn't sneeze.
A local landlord/former business owner who was very active in the Catholic Church/very vocal about what a good Catholic he was would throw his own mother under the bus for $1.
I also find that most people who are the loudest at proclaiming their religion are the biggest hypocrites. you are totally not alone, milee.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jan 2, 2014 14:52:03 GMT -5
If I was in an interview situation, I would find it odd. Even as someone with religious beliefs, and even if they shared my religion, I would react with confusion because it's not really relevent to the topic at hand. We're here to discuss what you can do for me, not your religion.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Jan 2, 2014 14:53:52 GMT -5
That's exactly the way my boss was. And he did not like anyone trying to pull the religion trump card on him. And then he had to deal with me - the heathen that had him convinced that I practiced VooDoo and held Séances. We had a great working relationship though.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Jan 2, 2014 14:55:09 GMT -5
I also do not appreciate aggressive and/or obtrusive religious propoganda. While I do understand and have/ kind of do at the moment practice protestant Christianity, I am not a "fisher of men". I do not seek to convert people. The problem is there are Christians (and I don't know how it works in other religions) who then believe I am not a Christian because I am not trying to save others. This is a primary disagreement I have with organized Christian churches.
There is a hotel in the town in which I live that has a reader board. If someone has paid them to put up an adverstisement then that message is up there. If no one has paid to put up anything, the owners put up pretty drastic messages--think Tea Party/Christian Conservative. I only don't throw things at them because I am a law-abiding citizen. @@ When it's that drastic, I won't frequent the business unless I have to. An RV park we frequent puts Bible versus on their fliers and book, chapter, and verse as their wifi password. That level doesn't tend to bother me.
I work for the government, and I am a huge believer in separation of church and state. I go in spurts as to whether or not I'll wear my cross necklace to work.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Jan 2, 2014 14:57:05 GMT -5
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Jan 2, 2014 14:57:39 GMT -5
I would rather go to a used car dealer named Honest Abe than believe someone honest because they say so.
I see the religion thing as saying you should believe they are good people or you should do something to prove you are good people. They are using it to get something.
Beggars on street corners have god bless on the card board signs. They think religious people are more likely to give I think. I don't see that as being a way to gain followers for their gods.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Jan 2, 2014 14:57:42 GMT -5
I love the "God Bless You" that really comes across as a "Go F- yourself". So pleasant.
We lived in North Carolina for a while and my friends there taught me about the "Bless Your Heart!" So I use that now.
I feel a little like a traitor but one of my best friends is a WASP from New England and I let her in on that little secret, so now she knows that whenever a Southerner (or someone who understands Southern ways) says that to her, it's not what it sounds like.
Honey chil, you aren't supposed to give away sacred secrets Bless your heart
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jan 2, 2014 15:05:18 GMT -5
I always get the feeling I'm being 'played a card' when someone pulls out their religion or geek or technical credentials or something else that's suppose to impress me to, well, impress or influence me. It sends my insincerity meter jumping into the 'DANGER' zone immediately.
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