Transactions With Openly Religious Businesses or People

[Tennesseer]

Jan 2, 2014 19:19:01 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Jan 2, 2014 18:54:26 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Without mentioning the business card, I spread the word at my employer's headquarters (where I worked) not to use the undependable guy.  I also filed a complaint with the BBB.  He never responded.

word of mouth makes or breaks many a business. is that one still operating? I wonder if that business owner ever realized what an impact he made on the perception of his business.

I have no ìdea ìf he ìs still ìn business.  I kept his business card for a year and when the next wind storm came through, I tossed the card into the air.  It blew away like the shingles.

[Deleted]

Yeah, I just call mine a Christmas tree, even though we don't attribute a religious significance yo Christmas... I do say Happy Holidays though. 

There is one very Pagan family in our homeschool group. We had some issues this year. Our group is secular. A few of our members got together with a few other people to create a year long academic co OP. They say they are secular too, but they really aren't. 

It can cause some issues though. The pagan family joined the co OP and didn't realize that so much of it, and particularly the undertones, were not secular. She left the co OP soon after the parents started planning a Christmas party, and she suggested a 'Halloween' type celebration too, and was quickly and rather forcefully rebuked.

[chiver78]

Jan 2, 2014 19:11:46 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

At my dad's Catholic mass funeral, everyone in my family and extended family rose up to receive communion except my niece and me. Most if not all of them had not visited a confessional booth in decades.

My niece has very strong religious beliefs so I asked her why she did not go up for communion. She told me the Catholic church considered unmarried couples living together to be a sin. She was to be married (and did marry) 30 days later. She said once she was married she would begin again receiving communion.

I was (and am) extremely proud of her for beliefs and practices.

I admire her resolve to abstain from Communion in the period where she was "living in sin" according to her Church. I have a very hard time with why it's okay as soon as she is finally married, that she's no longer "living in sin" in the eyes of the Church. I know this thread is in YM, and not the religious forum, so I'll refrain for thinking aloud further on this one.....

aside from that, I've been to more Catholic funerals lately than anyone would ever like to attend.....and while I can recite the Mass from memory and habit, I stay in my seat for Communion. my still-to some extent-practicing sister doesn't receive either, so I am totally okay with my own choice to refrain.

[kittensaver]

Jan 2, 2014 19:30:49 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Jan 2, 2014 19:11:46 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

At my dad's Catholic mass funeral, everyone in my family and extended family rose up to receive communion except my niece and me. Most if not all of them had not visited a confessional booth in decades.

My niece has very strong religious beliefs so I asked her why she did not go up for communion. She told me the Catholic church considered unmarried couples living together to be a sin. She was to be married (and did marry) 30 days later. She said once she was married she would begin again receiving communion.

I was (and am) extremely proud of her for beliefs and practices.

I admire her resolve to abstain from Communion in the period where she was "living in sin" according to her Church. I have a very hard time with why it's okay as soon as she is finally married, that she's no longer "living in sin" in the eyes of the Church. I know this thread is in YM, and not the religious forum, so I'll refrain for thinking aloud further on this one.....

aside from that, I've been to more Catholic funerals lately than anyone would ever like to attend.....and while I can recite the Mass from memory and habit, I stay in my seat for Communion. my still-to some extent-practicing sister doesn't receive either, so I am totally okay with my own choice to refrain.

I don't think of this as "religious" or "pious" - - I think of this as respectful. If you (the Big You) don't believe in the tenants of a faith (or identify with the faith but are not in compliance with its dictates), then I think it is being respectful of that religion to not participate in its most important or sacred rituals that are meant for faithful/compliant members only.  

[Miss Tequila]

Jan 2, 2014 19:30:40 GMT -5 oped said:

Yeah, I just call mine a Christmas tree, even though we don't attribute a religious significance yo Christmas... I do say Happy Holidays though. 

There is one very Pagan family in our homeschool group. We had some issues this year. Our group is secular. A few of our members got together with a few other people to create a year long academic co OP. They say they are secular too, but they really aren't. 

It can cause some issues though. The pagan family joined the co OP and didn't realize that so much of it, and particularly the undertones, were not secular. She left the co OP soon after the parents started planning a Christmas party, and she suggested a 'Halloween' type celebration too, and was quickly and rather forcefully rebuked.

I don't understand why anyone would get offended because parents planned a Christmas party?  Aren't most homeschoolers very religious?  I know a few from my years online and you are pretty much the exception to what I know about homeschoolers. 

It sounds like the group wasn't a good fit for that family and they smartly moved on to something that will be a better fit. 

[chiver78]

Jan 2, 2014 19:30:40 GMT -5 oped said:

Yeah, I just call mine a Christmas tree, even though we don't attribute a religious significance yo Christmas... I do say Happy Holidays though. 

There is one very Pagan family in our homeschool group. We had some issues this year. Our group is secular. A few of our members got together with a few other people to create a year long academic co OP. They say they are secular too, but they really aren't. 

It can cause some issues though. The pagan family joined the co OP and didn't realize that so much of it, and particularly the undertones, were not secular. She left the co OP soon after the parents started planning a Christmas party, and she suggested a 'Halloween' type celebration too, and was quickly and rather forcefully rebuked.

if this one family suggested a Halloween celebration and was rebuked, I wouldn't call that a secular homeschool organization....maybe that's just me?

[zibazinski]

Nope, every time, and it was twice, that I rented to some who pulled the religion card, I got screwed-royally. DF is owed thousands of dollars by a crook and his wife who are "religious." His second worse employee is "religious" but he is going to be gone so whatever. DF said he was a great employee before he got religion. 

[zibazinski]

I didn't know that about Hobby Lobby. DF is Jewish and I shop there. I'm not sure he knows that, either, but most of where we live is very anti-Semitic.

[Deleted]

She wasn't upset about the Christmas Party. She was upset that when she asked about a celebration which incorporated some of her beliefs as well, it was soundly and not very pleasantly shot down. (She also had some issues with a teacher who mischaracterized her class and was prosthelytizing in class and another who said she was teaching Kindermusic, but teaching a majority of bible songs) 

Many homeschoolers are religious. There are several religious homeschooling groups around. There is a reason our secular group is the biggest group though. Religious groups, even when they say they are 'Christian' often accept a very narrow range of beliefs. Being secular, we welcome anyone. So not just the non religious, or alternatively religious feel comfortable, but also those who dont necessarily fit into, or want to associate only with those that fit into, some narrow 'Christian' definition. 

Like I said, this co/OP is not under our group, it's a seperate entity that some of our group belong to. I have no problem with them being religious. I just think that they should mention that, not pretend to be secular. 

But the real issue is that they don't seem to understand that they are not secular. The 'christianess' is so ingrained, ... I'm not explaining it right, but maybe you get an idea? 

[Nazgul Girl]

Jan 2, 2014 19:23:54 GMT -5 swamp said:

I have Jewish friends that put up Christmas trees. 

My husband says they used to call them " Hannukah bushes " when he was a kid.   ( His family never did have one, but people they knew did ). 

[grits]

Jan 2, 2014 19:53:20 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

I didn't know that about Hobby Lobby. DF is Jewish and I shop there. I'm not sure he knows that, either, but most of where we live is very anti-Semitic.

Where is the factual information on Hobby Lobby's owners being anti-Semitic?  I wanted to read it.

[Deleted]

If it's for our homeschool group specifically, you can PLAN any kind of event you want. If people don't choose to go, they don't go.. But if it is a group event, not related to any kind of belief, ... Then you don't attach anything religious to that event... No group prayer before you ice skate for instance. Or, the last day of our groups' fall 6-week co/op ( not the same as the year long academic I was talking about that is seperate)... It ended on Oct 31, but there were no Halloween things at the picnic. 

If there will be things people might object to, they know ahead of time and can opt out.  We generally have lots of choices available. 

[kittensaver]

Jan 2, 2014 19:58:20 GMT -5 Nazgul Girl said:

Jan 2, 2014 19:23:54 GMT -5 swamp said:

I have Jewish friends that put up Christmas trees. 

My husband says they used to call them " Hannukah bushes " when he was a kid.   ( His family never did have one, but people they knew did ). 

My Jewish DH LOVES Christmas . He loves the seasonality, the food, the music, the sentimentality - everything. He actually looks forward to midnight Mass! The first year we were married I bought him a Mogen David for the top of the tree. Every year he still puts it up there .

[zibazinski]

I thought it was NAZGUL who posted it?

[kittensaver]

grits:

www.nydailynews.com/news/national/hobby-lobby-accused-anti-semitism-article-1.1473330

[zibazinski]

DF loves Christmas. Our house looks like Christmas threw up in it! He wants inflatable stuff for the front yard. I've called a halt to that. We have some guy who puts up a huge JESUS yard thing even though its against our HOA rules. DF is president of HOA and just cringes, as we all do, when we drive by but it's a short season and we get though it. But it is terribly tacky. 

[grits]

Jan 2, 2014 20:03:04 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

grits:

www.nydailynews.com/news/national/hobby-lobby-accused-anti-semitism-article-1.1473330

I just googled it, and it was an employee in a store in Marlboro, NJ that made the remark not the family. It also said that Steve Green offered an apology, and the Anti-Defamation League has not only accepted the apology but has defended him. Being accused and being guilty are two different things.

In part, it seems to be the result of stores in the northeast not carrying items for Jewish holidays.  They are now test marketing them.  The chain said they had carried some in the past.

To be perfectly honest, our Jewish community has dwindled in size to the point that all but one synagogue has closed.  I have seen small amounts of things in the local store for Hanukkah.  We just don't have a large enough number of people interested in it for it to be viable. I find it to be sad.    

[NoNamePerson]

Jan 2, 2014 18:22:59 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Jan 2, 2014 14:17:59 GMT -5 milee said:

Am I alone in this?  Who else feels this way?  Or who else has had the opposite experience and seeks out religious people to transact business with?

Where I live, we often have very severe weather (thunderstorms and tornado watches) late winter and spring.  When my home was built, the shingles were attached to the roof with a staple gun.  So when these severe storms with strong winds would come late winter, I could count on a shingle to two to be blown off.

So it is spring time many years ago.  Severe weather is predicted on Sunday.  I need to get a few shingles replaced before the storms hit so no potential leaks in the house.  I contact a roof repair guy on Thursday.  He says he will stop by and repair the roof Friday and quotes me a price.  I take the day off from work.  I need to be there to pay him.  He's a no-show Friday.  I call him Friday night and he apologizes for not showing.  He states he will come Saturday.

He's a no-show on Saturday.  It is too late to call someone else to repair the roof.  I call him Saturday evening and he swears he will be there Sunday. 

He shows up Sunday and repairs the roof.  He hands me the bill.  It is double the estimate he gave me on Thursday.  I ask him why the high price.  He told me does not work on Sundays.  I disgustedly pay him as I needed the roof repaired.  He hands me his business card and it states he is a "Christian roofer".

Where was this guy when he promised me he would be there Friday and Saturday?!?  Not very nice of him to leave me hanging.

The guy is not representative of all Christian roofers let alone all Christian folks in business.  But I am hesitant to do business with anyone who advertises they are a Christian 'this or that' on their business cards.   And I have yet to tell the difference between a roofer and a Christian roofer.  The roof work looks the same by either party. 

Tenn, I would have refused to pay the excess amount with the explanation that I don't like being screwed on Sunday!!!!       

[Tennesseer]

Jan 2, 2014 20:25:02 GMT -5 NoNamePerson said:

Jan 2, 2014 18:22:59 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Where I live, we often have very severe weather (thunderstorms and tornado watches) late winter and spring.  When my home was built, the shingles were attached to the roof with a staple gun.  So when these severe storms with strong winds would come late winter, I could count on a shingle to two to be blown off.

So it is spring time many years ago.  Severe weather is predicted on Sunday.  I need to get a few shingles replaced before the storms hit so no potential leaks in the house.  I contact a roof repair guy on Thursday.  He says he will stop by and repair the roof Friday and quotes me a price.  I take the day off from work.  I need to be there to pay him.  He's a no-show Friday.  I call him Friday night and he apologizes for not showing.  He states he will come Saturday.

He's a no-show on Saturday.  It is too late to call someone else to repair the roof.  I call him Saturday evening and he swears he will be there Sunday. 

He shows up Sunday and repairs the roof.  He hands me the bill.  It is double the estimate he gave me on Thursday.  I ask him why the high price.  He told me does not work on Sundays.  I disgustedly pay him as I needed the roof repaired.  He hands me his business card and it states he is a "Christian roofer".

Where was this guy when he promised me he would be there Friday and Saturday?!?  Not very nice of him to leave me hanging.

The guy is not representative of all Christian roofers let alone all Christian folks in business.  But I am hesitant to do business with anyone who advertises they are a Christian 'this or that' on their business cards.   And I have yet to tell the difference between a roofer and a Christian roofer.  The roof work looks the same by either party. 

Tenn, I would have refused to pay the excess amount with the explanation that I don't like being screwed on Sunday!!!!       

Unless we are married too!  

[Nazgul Girl]

I posted what ? Not following. However, Happy Holidays and New Year to everyone, no matter what you decorate at your house ( or don't ) .   I'm off to read an I.J.  Parker novel on my Kindle.   Highly recommend this auther ( mystery, murder and angst set in the historic Heian period in Japan - circa 1000 a.d. ).   They didn't have " holiday " trees then, either .

[haapai]

You're not alone at all, including your sadness and bewilderment. 

When I was growing up, my particular strain of Protestantism was always the blandest faith in the room and my parents the least observant parents.  I didn't grow up hostile to faith, or other faiths, in fact, it saddens me that any public expression of faith is considered gauche, but I still experience the same recoil that you mention.

I always wonder how much of the aversion is tied to my opinion of the faith in question, because quite frankly it varies.  My fellow Protestants repel me quite strongly but the farther you get away from that, the more mild my reaction becomes.  Non-Christians and immigrants pretty much get a pass.  I suspect that if I still lived in a more diverse area, my reaction would be a less influenced by the faith being expressed. 

[steph08]

This year I found an all-Christmas-music-all-December radio station. I was listening to it on the way to work one day when a commercial came on for a tire store in a neighboring town.

The commercial went something like this:

Sister: Our family's tire business has been around for over 30 years and we want to thank you for your service and blah blah blah.

Brother: That's right, sis. And we just want to wish all the folks out there a Merry Christmas! That's right, a Merry Christmas. Not Happy Holidays. We're celebrating the birth of Jesus, not the Winter Solstice. We want everyone to have a safe and blessed Christmas season.

Sister: And come buy our tires!

Or something like that. But when they got to the saying Merry Christmas, not Happy Holidays, and the Winter Solstice thing, I couldn't believe it!  I went into work and told my one coworker and said, well, I know where I am not ever going to buy tires!

[whoisjohngalt]

OMG I just got flash backs to when we moved into this house a few years ago.  We had a HUGE snow storm and needed snow removed from our roof.

Well, the ONLY guy that  I got a  hold of told me that "yes, he will do it for us, but he needs to go to his Bible study bc Christ waits for no one, blah blah blah".  I was so desperate, I over looked that.

He was such a dishonest business man, it was crazy.  But every time I talked to him, he kept telling me that he was either going to church or coming from church or Bible study or meeting Christ himself.

[raeoflyte]

That is typically my reaction too, but I will say that I have the best plumber who has the fish on his card (but doesn't talk about religion). My hair dresser posts a decent amount of wiccan things on Facebook.

I also work for a very religious family owned business. The owner is mostly retired and focusing on his missions and the younger family has put an end to the all staff emails that tell us how we should vote/believe. Their religion is still a huge part of how they do business but they focus on community service, helping family (including employees), etc.



Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards

[tallguy]

So it is spring time many years ago. Severe weather is predicted on Sunday. I need to get a few shingles replaced before the storms hit so no potential leaks in the house. I contact a roof repair guy on Thursday. He says he will stop by and repair the roof Friday and quotes me a price. I take the day off from work. I need to be there to pay him. He's a no-show Friday. I call him Friday night and he apologizes for not showing. He states he will come Saturday.

He's a no-show on Saturday. It is too late to call someone else to repair the roof. I call him Saturday evening and he swears he will be there Sunday. 

He shows up Sunday and repairs the roof. He hands me the bill. It is double the estimate he gave me on Thursday. I ask him why the high price. He told me does not work on Sundays. I disgustedly pay him as I needed the roof repaired. He hands me his business card and it states he is a "Christian roofer".

Where was this guy when he promised me he would be there Friday and Saturday?!? Not very nice of him to leave me hanging

Not only would I not have paid him double, but I would have threatened to bill him for my time and lost wages.  Let a Small Claims Court judge figure it out (if it got that far.) 

And if I happened to know which church he attended, perhaps a suggestion to the pastor about an appropriate topic for a sermon....   Honor, integrity, holding ourselves to a higher standard both as a representative of and witness for Christ and the Church....  With the guy's name, of course.  But that's me.     

[Mardi Gras Audrey]

I totally agree with you Milee. Most people I have met who openly remind you of their faith are some of the most dishonest IMHO. I was raised a Catholic, am now an Atheist married to a non-practicing Catholic. My family is varying levels of Catholic/Christian and the ones that are the most judgemental/most jackass in my family are the ones who are "Born Again Christians", who love to speak to you about how you are "going to hell for drinking a soda" (Never mind that they spent the last 20 years prior to "being saved" doing Cocaine, cheating on their spouses, and neglecting their children.  Yet I'm evil because I don't believe in God and drink Pepsi

When I was in the military, I had some interesting encounters with religious folks.  One had me going off on a govt civilian.  This was during the middle of the Iraq War.  He said that we should pull our troops out, get all of our gang members/rapists/murderers/violent criminals out of prison, arm them, and drop them in Iraq to "take care of things".  When I pointed out that doing this would be highly unethical and would lead to innocent Iraqis being harmed, he said that he would never do such a thing because he "is a Christian" and it would be unethical for him to do but he would have the atheists do it (Yes, he knew I was one).  I called him on that and asked why he thought atheists would do such a thing and he said the atheists "wouldn't have any problems doing it because we are unethical anyways"...  

FWIW, I don't have a problem with religion in general. I think everyone has the right to their beliefs, I just don't think it should be used to judge others or shoved down their throats. I fully participate in Christmas (I love me Santa and pretty trees!) and don't have a problem with any future children being taken to church/exposed to various beliefs.  I have gotten on other people for being disrespectful of others' beliefs (I had a Jewish employee wearing Christian stuff disrespectfully.  I stopped him and gave him a little lesson respect for others).

[mmhmm]

And I have had Muslim friends that put up a tree during the holidays.  She was Armenian Christian.  He was Muslim.  Who put up and decorated the tree?  He did, and he loved it!

[Sam_2.0]

Jan 2, 2014 18:54:26 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Jan 2, 2014 18:39:20 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Tennesseer - you had no interaction with him to cause his no-shows, I'd have thrown the bill back in his face and told him that. what would he have done, ripped out the shingles he put in? wow, just wow.

Without mentioning the business card, I spread the word at my employer's headquarters (where I worked) not to use the undependable guy.  I also filed a complaint with the BBB.  He never responded.

I've learned that the BBB is a racket. People pay to respond to the complaints through them - basically pay to get a good rating. I found out when our company had outstanding complaints there that we weren't aware of so our rating was low. We use a consumer agency through the state for all complaint resolution so we pretty much just ignored the BBB after learning that they wanted a big fee from us upfront before they would accept our answers to change our rating.

[Miss Tequila]

Jan 2, 2014 20:00:58 GMT -5 oped said:

If it's for our homeschool group specifically, you can PLAN any kind of event you want. If people don't choose to go, they don't go.. But if it is a group event, not related to any kind of belief, ... Then you don't attach anything religious to that event... No group prayer before you ice skate for instance. Or, the last day of our groups' fall 6-week co/op ( not the same as the year long academic I was talking about that is seperate)... It ended on Oct 31, but there were no Halloween things at the picnic. 

If there will be things people might object to, they know ahead of time and can opt out.  We generally have lots of choices available. 

I guess I don't understand the homeschooling structure. They aren't a government entity and if the majority if them are Christian, I don't see the big deal with what was done. They don't have to have separation of church/state...which is the big draw to homeschool for a lot of people.

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

When my car needs to be repaired, I really don't care what the faith is (if any) of the mechanic. I just want it properly diagnosed, competently repaired, and to have this occur in a timely manner and for an agreed upon, reasonable price.

I said "Happy Holidays" a few weeks ago to a Christian acquaintance of mine and she literally went batcrap crazy and started screaming about how there was just ONE holiday and how she hated the phrase "Happy Holidays." I just stared at her and said, "fine. Have a crappy New Year, then. Sheesh." I must say that her methods of evangelism/proselytization need some work ... I don't know many people who respond positively to having someone throw a shrieking hissyfit.

What I find personally offensive? Michael Bolton and those gosh-awful Honda commercials. And, frankly, I think that Elf on a Shelf thing is just a creepy, miniature, demon-spawned clown. Both should be outlawed.

We don't have decorated trees in our home for any holidays, or otherwise. We have cats. =^..^=