Judge rules baker must bake wedding cakes for gays

[Wisconsin Beth]

And I guess I'm assuming that at some point they filled out paperwork for the cake that included name of bride and name of groom.  Probably before they had a discussion on cake toppers with the baker. 

[Miss Tequila]

Dec 10, 2013 21:21:45 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Dec 10, 2013 15:52:44 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

You could take the chance of changing your recipe and it tastes bad.  That isn't against the law - I've had plenty of bad food at restaurants.  Spitting in someone's food is kind of dumb, because likely it won't cause any problems (if the spitter is healthy, then it isn't much worse than serious french kissing.)  But you would really damage a party by putting half the sugar as necessary into the wedding cake.

If you baked the cake publicly kicking, screaming and angry you had to bake a wedding cake for a gay wedding, and only put in half the sugar or worse, waaaaay too much salt, there might be a case for at least small claims court (if not more).

Let's see...my defense would be that I was so emotionally distraught over all of the media attention brought to me and my bakery that I had tears in my eyes as I was making the cake.  I wasn't sleeping, I was just a mess (given taht I would have planned this ahead of time I would make sure that I had plenty of witnesses to say that I was a complete mess on the days leading up to the event).  I realized immediately that I made an error and issued the plaintiffs a full refund along with a "heartfelt" apology. 

I'm a vindictive bitch so I would be willing to take the chance that I might have to pay at small claims court.  But realistically, unless you can prove that I wasn't emotionally distraught and that I intentionally screwed up your cake, I don't think you would get much out of me.  Add that to the fact that all business carry insurance and I would totally be willing to take that risk...I would get great satisfaction ruining the cake and hopefully the day for someone that would force me to do something I absolutely did not want to do.

[Wisconsin Beth]

<Beth makes mental note to NEVER piss off MissT>

[Deleted]

Dec 11, 2013 13:15:51 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

<Beth makes mental note to NEVER piss off MissT>

I laminated mine! 

[Deleted]

Just for arguments sake should a black bakery owner be obligated to provide a cake for a KKK rally or a Jewish owner to a Nazi picnic?

[Miss Tequila]

Dec 11, 2013 13:21:22 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

Just for arguments sake should a black bakery owner be obligated to provide a cake for a KKK rally or a Jewish owner to a Nazi picnic?

I'm going to take a stab and say that KKK and Nazis aren't protected classes.  But I'm no lawyer so I'm just guessing.

[Miss Tequila]

Dec 11, 2013 13:15:51 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

<Beth makes mental note to NEVER piss off MissT>

LOL! 

[Deleted]

I think you are probably right.  I'm thinking beyond the legalities of it I guess.

[Tennesseer]

Dec 11, 2013 13:21:22 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

Just for arguments sake should a black bakery owner be obligated to provide a cake for a KKK rally or a Jewish owner to a Nazi picnic?

Are the KKK or the Nazis (forgive me Mr. Godwin) protected classes in Colorado or anywhere else in this country as it pertains to Anti-Discrimination Public Accommodation laws? I don't think so. Political ideology is not a protected class when it comes to Anti-Discrimination Public Accommodation laws.

[Deleted]

Yes Tenn, covered that in my last post.

[greeniis10]

On many levels I agree with Miss T's reaction and how she would handle it.  However, as far as the business aspect of it, I say use this publicity to your advantage!  They already messed up (bakery owner).  Be the bigger person, show pride in your work and make them the best dang cake!  Making a good cake doesn't mean you are endorsing a lifestyle.  It means you are being the business person you profess to be.  I just don't get all the hate.  Live and let live.

[Miss Tequila]

Dec 11, 2013 14:13:01 GMT -5 greeniis10 said:

On many levels I agree with Miss T's reaction and how she would handle it.  However, as far as the business aspect of it, I say use this publicity to your advantage!  They already messed up (bakery owner).  Be the bigger person, show pride in your work and make them the best dang cake!  Making a good cake doesn't mean you are endorsing a lifestyle.  It means you are being the business person you profess to be.  I just don't get all the hate.  Live and let live.

The issue with that is this baker doesn't want the gay busienss.  If he makes a fabulous cake he is goign to get even more gay business.  Trust me, I'm a business person so I don't get turning down business but this guy doesn't see it that way.  He tried to be honest and that got him in all kinds of trouble.  If he just fucks up the cake then everyone wins...they get the cake they insisted he make even though he didn't want to make it (it will be gross but by God, they made him deliver a cake he didn't want to make!) and he wins because he has the satisfaction of having fucked up said cake. 

[greeniis10]

Possibly.  And this is NOT be argumentative, but just to add another perspective: say they do make a great cake.  (Is anyone going to be brave enough to actually taste it?!)  Gay couple is happy, public outrage calms down (and inevitably moves onto the next issue) and bakery goes about their business.  I still don't see gay couples actively seeking out this bakery for their cakes even if it is to be spiteful.  I'd think most would have better things to do with their time. 

[Miss Tequila]

Dec 11, 2013 14:36:16 GMT -5 greeniis10 said:

Possibly.  And this is NOT be argumentative, but just to add another perspective: say they do make a great cake.  (Is anyone going to be brave enough to actually taste it?!)  Gay couple is happy, public outrage calms down (and inevitably moves onto the next issue) and bakery goes about their business.  I still don't see gay couples actively seeking out this bakery for their cakes even if it is to be spiteful.  I'd think most would have better things to do with their time. 

let's be honest, he should have just made them a fabulous cake and gotten in with the gays.  Gay men throw fabulous parties...and spend lots of cash doing so!  That's a niche market you want to capture, not piss off!   But this is a small bakery and the guy probably isn't much of a business person.  I think he is a putz for what he did.

[Tennesseer]

Dec 11, 2013 14:09:39 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

Yes Tenn, covered that in my last post.

Sorry. After Zibazanski was so uninformed about Florida's anti-discrimination law regarding public accommodations and stated a couple gay B&Bs were discriminating against straight people in Florida by not accommodating them and no straights were suing the B&Bs, and I had to point out to her Florida's Anti-Discrimination Accommodation law does not cover sexual orientation, I thought it was best to spell it all out for you.

I see I was wrong in your case.  My apologies.

[Tennesseer]

Dec 11, 2013 14:26:12 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Dec 11, 2013 14:13:01 GMT -5 greeniis10 said:

On many levels I agree with Miss T's reaction and how she would handle it.  However, as far as the business aspect of it, I say use this publicity to your advantage!  They already messed up (bakery owner).  Be the bigger person, show pride in your work and make them the best dang cake!  Making a good cake doesn't mean you are endorsing a lifestyle.  It means you are being the business person you profess to be.  I just don't get all the hate.  Live and let live.

The issue with that is this baker doesn't want the gay busienss.  If he makes a fabulous cake he is goign to get even more gay business.  Trust me, I'm a business person so I don't get turning down business but this guy doesn't see it that way.  He tried to be honest and that got him in all kinds of trouble.  If he just fucks up the cake then everyone wins...they get the cake they insisted he make even though he didn't want to make it (it will be gross but by God, they made him deliver a cake he didn't want to make!) and he wins because he has the satisfaction of having fucked up said cake. 

But the baker said he wants the gay business and that he sells cookies and other baked goods to gays.  But based upon his religious beliefs, he refuses the gay wedding cake requests.

According to the complaint, Phillips told the couple that the store policy was to deny service to customers who wished to order baked goods for a same-sex wedding, based on his religious beliefs.

Phillips told the men, "I'll make you birthday cakes, shower cakes, sell you cookies and brownies, I just don't make cakes for same-sex weddings."

Judge Orders Colorado Bakery to Cater for Same-Sex Weddings

[mmhmm]

Dec 11, 2013 13:31:30 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

I think you are probably right.  I'm thinking beyond the legalities of it I guess.

The thing is, though, the legalities are the issue.  The state is prosecuting, not the individuals.  The reason for the prosecution is violation of state law.

[Miss Tequila]

Dec 11, 2013 16:48:22 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Dec 11, 2013 14:26:12 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

The issue with that is this baker doesn't want the gay busienss.  If he makes a fabulous cake he is goign to get even more gay business.  Trust me, I'm a business person so I don't get turning down business but this guy doesn't see it that way.  He tried to be honest and that got him in all kinds of trouble.  If he just fucks up the cake then everyone wins...they get the cake they insisted he make even though he didn't want to make it (it will be gross but by God, they made him deliver a cake he didn't want to make!) and he wins because he has the satisfaction of having fucked up said cake. 

But the baker said he wants the gay business and that he sells cookies and other baked goods to gays.  But based upon his religious beliefs, he refuses the gay wedding cake requests.

According to the complaint, Phillips told the couple that the store policy was to deny service to customers who wished to order baked goods for a same-sex wedding, based on his religious beliefs.

Phillips told the men, "I'll make you birthday cakes, shower cakes, sell you cookies and brownies, I just don't make cakes for same-sex weddings."

Judge Orders Colorado Bakery to Cater for Same-Sex Weddings

Then he should have either lied and said he was booked that day or tripled the price of the cake in hopes that they will go elsewhere. If I've learned nothing else from PB, i've learned I can be a biggot, I just can't tell anyone I'm a biggot :-p

[thyme4change]

We stayed in a "gay friendly" hotel in San Diego.  It was a great place.  I wasn't going to let them keep that all to themselves.  We had the kids with us.  

[Deleted]

Dec 11, 2013 16:44:20 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Dec 11, 2013 14:09:39 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

Yes Tenn, covered that in my last post.

Sorry. After Zibazanski was so uninformed about Florida's anti-discrimination law regarding public accommodations and stated a couple gay B&Bs were discriminating against straight people in Florida by not accommodating them and no straights were suing the B&Bs, and I had to point out to her Florida's Anti-Discrimination Accommodation law does not cover sexual orientation, I thought it was best to spell it all out for you.

I see I was wrong in your case.  My apologies.

No problem.

[Deleted]

Dec 11, 2013 16:55:02 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Dec 11, 2013 13:31:30 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

I think you are probably right.  I'm thinking beyond the legalities of it I guess.

The thing is, though, the legalities are the issue.  The state is prosecuting, not the individuals.  The reason for the prosecution is violation of state law.

 I know mmhmm. The same state that doesn't allow gays to marry. The state can discriminate but not the baker.

 Sometimes I just like to overthink things a little k? This is a message board for sharing thought and ideas no?

In my ideal world I guess  the baker could have said

 "Im sorry but I have some real moral objections to gay marriage and for me to bake this cake I would feel a participant in something that is really objectionable to me, could I recommend another great cake baker for your wedding ?" 

And the couple could have said

 "I'm sorry you feel that way but since you do, sure we would love another great cake baker who wouldn't feel in any way bad while baking our wedding cake. We actually would prefer a baker that would be happy to bake it for us."

[zibazinski]

But that would require class on both parties and it seems that was lacking. Forcing a baker to bake a cake isn't a good idea as its been pointed out. But it's better to waste taxpayer dollars making a point that must make someone feel better. Btw, unless they waited to get married, they didn't get their cake from this baker so what's the harm they endured? That someone doesn't like their lifestyle? Get used to it. All the legal hoopla in the world isn't going to change that point of view.

[Tennesseer]

@xmascookie said:  "The same state that doesn't allow gays to marry. The state can discriminate but not the baker."


It ìs Colorado voters like the baker mentioned in this thread who have caused the state of Colorado to discriminate against gays by banning marriage for same-sex couples.  In 2006, voters approved by a margin of 55% to 45% to ammend the state constitution and ban same-sex marriage.  

It was only this year in which Colorado's state Senate and House finally approved civil unions which went into effective May 1, 2013 for gay and straight couples.

The addition of sexual orientation to Colorado's anti-discrimination Accomodation law took place in 2009, three years after same-sex marriage was banned in Colorado.  Colorado was adding protection for the LGBT community in other ways without violating the state constitution.

Colorado is taking steps, albeit baby steps, to eventually allow same-sex couples to legally wed in their state.  When that will happen, who knows.  It is up to state voters to decide.  

To see what it took for Colorado to even get to legalized civil unions, you can read this link here:

 Recognition of same-sex unions in Colorado

[Peace77]

If it was my business, I would not be available for the date requested.  Any date.