Judge rules baker must bake wedding cakes for gays

[Value Buy]

I say:

Let them eat cake!

And that is all I have to say about that.

[Green Eyed Lady]

The thing is?  If their Christian principles prevent them from making a cake for a same-sex marriange, those same principles SHOULD prevent them from intentionally messing up a cake.  If that isn't the case, they aren't the Christians they claim to be.

[Value Buy]

Dec 10, 2013 10:01:42 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

The thing is?  If their Christian principles prevent them from making a cake for a same-sex marriange, those same principles SHOULD prevent them from intentionally messing up a cake.  If that isn't the case, they aren't the Christians they claim to be.

You know what really bothers me about whether it is Christian principals involved in this type of situation?

Does the bakery refuse cakes to customers living in sin together?

There are plenty of people who should be refused cakes if this were the reason (Christian principles)

There are a lot of people they should be refusing service to if it is based on Christian views.

Bake the cake!

[Miss Tequila]

Dec 10, 2013 10:01:42 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

The thing is?  If their Christian principles prevent them from making a cake for a same-sex marriange, those same principles SHOULD prevent them from intentionally messing up a cake.  If that isn't the case, they aren't the Christians they claim to be.

I'm saying what I would do...I never claimed to be super-religious   (as I said earlier, I would have made the cake...money is money to me!)

[Green Eyed Lady]

You are exactly right, Value Buy.  For all they know, they bake cakes for adulterors, thieves, etc.  If one believe that homosexuality is a sin, singling out homosexuality as a sin greater than the rest is wrong.  There is but one Judge....

[Miss Tequila]

Dec 10, 2013 10:09:49 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

You are exactly right, Value Buy.  For all they know, they bake cakes for adulterors, thieves, etc.  If one believe that homosexuality is a sin, singling out homosexuality as a sin greater than the rest is wrong.  There is but one Judge....

I think the difference is that when Joe Schmoe come in you have no way of knowing that he just left the hotel after an afternoon of banging his mistress.  When Kevin and Dave come in asking for a cake to celebrate their marriage, it is kind of obvious.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Dec 10, 2013 10:09:43 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Dec 10, 2013 10:01:42 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

The thing is?  If their Christian principles prevent them from making a cake for a same-sex marriange, those same principles SHOULD prevent them from intentionally messing up a cake.  If that isn't the case, they aren't the Christians they claim to be.

I'm saying what I would do...I never claimed to be super-religious   (as I said earlier, I would have made the cake...money is money to me!)

Oh I know, Miss T.  And believe me.  If someone told me that I, as a business owner, had to provide services I didn't wish to provide, I might do the same thing.  But then I don't profess to be this wonderful Christian who wouldn't serve homosexuals like this couple did.   I'm absolutely certain I have a lot to answer for when the time comes.  What's one more? 

[whoisjohngalt]

People have too much free time on their hands.

I am all for "standing up for your rights" and all, but going after a bakery for  not wanting to bake you a cake is not really doing that

[Tennesseer]

How about simply following Colorado's anti-discrimination laws? It states businesses serving the public (public accomodations) may not discriminate against the following characteristics of people: Race, Color, Disability, Sex, Sexual Orientation (including transgender status), National Origin/ Ancestry, Creed, Marital Status, Retaliation. It has been Colorsdo law since 2008.

Follow the law and you will not have problems.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Dec 10, 2013 10:11:13 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Dec 10, 2013 10:09:49 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

You are exactly right, Value Buy.  For all they know, they bake cakes for adulterors, thieves, etc.  If one believe that homosexuality is a sin, singling out homosexuality as a sin greater than the rest is wrong.  There is but one Judge....

I think the difference is that when Joe Schmoe come in you have no way of knowing that he just left the hotel after an afternoon of banging his mistress.  When Kevin and Dave come in asking for a cake to celebrate their marriage, it is kind of obvious.

That's a very good point, Miss T.  However, I'm quite sure those people know dang well they've sold at least one cake at some point to someone who may have had sex before marriage.  They've singled out homosexuality as a sin greater than the rest and that's the issue I have.  They are free to believe how they wish to believe.  I just don't know how one can love thy neighbor as thyself and respect that as one of the greatest commandments; and then turn around and be mean to someone.  Maybe they don't see it as being mean....I dunno.

[Miss Tequila]

Dec 10, 2013 10:12:53 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Dec 10, 2013 10:09:43 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

I'm saying what I would do...I never claimed to be super-religious   (as I said earlier, I would have made the cake...money is money to me!)

Oh I know, Miss T.  And believe me.  If someone told me that I, as a business owner, had to provide services I didn't wish to provide, I might do the same thing.  But then I don't profess to be this wonderful Christian who wouldn't serve homosexuals like this couple did.   I'm absolutely certain I have a lot to answer for when the time comes.  What's one more? 

Exactly.  I personally think this it is crazy not to have just made the cake...let's face it, you get on the good side of the gays and you are hooked up for all of their fabulous parties! 

On the flip side, if I were someone being discriminated against, I would rather know who to avoid then try to force them to provide me services. 

[Miss Tequila]

Dec 10, 2013 10:17:36 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

How about simply following Colorado's anti-discrimination laws? It states businesses serving the public (public accomodations) may not discriminate against the following characteristics of people: Race, Color, Disability, Sex, Sexual Orientation (including transgender status), National Origin/ Ancestry, Creed, Marital Status, Retaliation. It has been Colorsdo law since 2008.

Follow the law and you will not have problems.

Or...just don't be dumb enough to tell them why you won't bake the cake.  But I guess those pesky Christians aren't supposed to lie

[Miss Tequila]

Dec 10, 2013 10:19:40 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Dec 10, 2013 10:11:13 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

I think the difference is that when Joe Schmoe come in you have no way of knowing that he just left the hotel after an afternoon of banging his mistress.  When Kevin and Dave come in asking for a cake to celebrate their marriage, it is kind of obvious.

That's a very good point, Miss T.  However, I'm quite sure those people know dang well they've sold at least one cake at some point to someone who may have had sex before marriage.  They've singled out homosexuality as a sin greater than the rest and that's the issue I have.  They are free to believe how they wish to believe.  I just don't know how one can love thy neighbor as thyself and respect that as one of the greatest commandments; and then turn around and be mean to someone.  Maybe they don't see it as being mean....I dunno.

Who knows what makes people tick.  I personally would rather know that someone is an asshat up front.  I'm a female and if I were in a company where the President hated women and dind't want me there, I would say fuck him and just find a new job.  Legally I have every right to work anywhere but it just isn't worth my time or energy to fight every asshat out there.  It would be a hollow victory even if I won...he would just look for or make up reasons to fire me (no, that has never happened to me)

[Tennesseer]

Dec 10, 2013 10:16:36 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

PeoIle have too much free time on their hands.

I am all for "standing up for your rights" and all, but going after a bakery for  not wanting to bake you a cake is not really doing that

If ìt ìs not "standing up for your rights", then what ís ìt?  Under Colorado law, their rights were violated.

[Tennesseer]

Dec 10, 2013 10:23:21 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Dec 10, 2013 10:17:36 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

How about simply following Colorado's anti-discrimination laws? It states businesses serving the public (public accomodations) may not discriminate against the following characteristics of people: Race, Color, Disability, Sex, Sexual Orientation (including transgender status), National Origin/ Ancestry, Creed, Marital Status, Retaliation. It has been Colorsdo law since 2008.

Follow the law and you will not have problems.

Or...just don't be dumb enough to tell them why you won't bake the cake.  But I guess those pesky Christians aren't supposed to lie

Psssshhh. You know "those pesky Christians" lie all the time.

[Miss Tequila]

Dec 10, 2013 10:32:24 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Dec 10, 2013 10:16:36 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

PeoIle have too much free time on their hands.

I am all for "standing up for your rights" and all, but going after a bakery for  not wanting to bake you a cake is not really doing that

If ìt ìs not "standing up for your rights", then what ís ìt?  Under Colorado law, their rights were violated.

Let's be honest...do you really think the baker is going to change his ways?  He is just going to come up wtih an excuse as to why he can't make the cake in the future.  I have no idea what this proved.  He was an ass before this and he will be an ass after this.  He will just hide it better.

[Tennesseer]

Dec 10, 2013 10:07:14 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Dec 10, 2013 10:01:42 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

The thing is?  If their Christian principles prevent them from making a cake for a same-sex marriange, those same principles SHOULD prevent them from intentionally messing up a cake.  If that isn't the case, they aren't the Christians they claim to be.

You know what really bothers me about whether it is Christian principals involved in this type of situation?

Does the bakery refuse cakes to customers living in sin together?

There are plenty of people who should be refused cakes if this were the reason (Christian principles)

There are a lot of people they should be refusing service to if it is based on Christian views.

Bake the cake!

I agree with Value Buy.  

[Tennesseer]

Dec 10, 2013 10:36:14 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Dec 10, 2013 10:32:24 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

If ìt ìs not "standing up for your rights", then what ís ìt?  Under Colorado law, their rights were violated.

Let's be honest...do you really think the baker is going to change his ways?  He is just going to come up wtih an excuse as to why he can't make the cake in the future.  I have no idea what this proved.  He was an ass before this and he will be an ass after this.  He will just hide it better.

Let him hide ìt then.  Better to be an ass ìn hiding than one ìn public.

ETA:  this couple's bakery services now has a public black eye.  I doubt they will have to hide their reason for refusing to bake a wedding cake in the future.  Some folks will still use them and others, straight or gay, will look elsewhere.

[Tennesseer]

Dec 10, 2013 10:36:14 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Dec 10, 2013 10:32:24 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

If ìt ìs not "standing up for your rights", then what ís ìt?  Under Colorado law, their rights were violated.

Let's be honest...do you really think the baker is going to change his ways?  He is just going to come up wtih an excuse as to why he can't make the cake in the future.  I have no idea what this proved.  He was an ass before this and he will be an ass after this.  He will just hide it better.

What ìt proves ìs that ìn Colorado, no business which serves the public ìs above the law.

[Miss Tequila]

Dec 10, 2013 10:39:07 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Dec 10, 2013 10:36:14 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Let's be honest...do you really think the baker is going to change his ways?  He is just going to come up wtih an excuse as to why he can't make the cake in the future.  I have no idea what this proved.  He was an ass before this and he will be an ass after this.  He will just hide it better.

Let him hide ìt then.  Better to be an ass ìn hiding than one ìn public.

ETA:  this couple's bakery services now has a public black eye.  I doubt they will have to hide their reason for refusing to bake a wedding cake in the future.  Some folks will still use them and others, straight or gay, will look elsewhere.

All this will do is ensure that no gays go to this bakery for a cake...kind of a win-win for everyone involved

[whoisjohngalt]

Dec 10, 2013 10:32:24 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Dec 10, 2013 10:16:36 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

PeoIle have too much free time on their hands.

I am all for "standing up for your rights" and all, but going after a bakery for  not wanting to bake you a cake is not really doing that

If ìt ìs not "standing up for your rights", then what ís ìt?  Under Colorado law, their rights were violated.

getting into a pissing contest

and while it's not a valid argument to many, the whole "law" thing doesn't really mean much to me in this kind of case

[Tennesseer]

Dec 10, 2013 10:55:14 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Dec 10, 2013 10:39:07 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Let him hide ìt then.  Better to be an ass ìn hiding than one ìn public.

ETA:  this couple's bakery services now has a public black eye.  I doubt they will have to hide their reason for refusing to bake a wedding cake in the future.  Some folks will still use them and others, straight or gay, will look elsewhere.

All this will do is ensure that no gays go to this bakery for a cake...kind of a win-win for everyone involved

They will also lose straight business too.  These young adults as a majority support gay marriage/civil unions.  'A bad business for my gay brothers, sisters, friends and other relatives, is a bad business for me Too.''

The 60 and older crowd are not getting married too frequently these days.  

[Tennesseer]

Dec 10, 2013 10:58:50 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

Dec 10, 2013 10:32:24 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

If ìt ìs not "standing up for your rights", then what ís ìt?  Under Colorado law, their rights were violated.

getting into a pissing contest

and while it's not a valid argument to many, the whole "law" thing doesn't really mean much to me in this kind of case

Do you ìgnore speed limits too?

[Miss Tequila]

Dec 10, 2013 11:02:41 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Dec 10, 2013 10:55:14 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

All this will do is ensure that no gays go to this bakery for a cake...kind of a win-win for everyone involved

They will also lose straight business too.  These young adults as a majority support gay marriage/civil unions.  'A bad business for my gay brothers, sisters, friends and other relatives, is a bad business for me Too.''

The 60 and older crowd are not getting married too frequently these days.  

And then that would prove that the market will handle this...which is the way I think it should work.  People will choose whether or not to frequent his bakery...if enough choose not to, his bakery goes out of business. 

[Miss Tequila]

Dec 10, 2013 11:04:11 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Dec 10, 2013 10:58:50 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

getting into a pissing contest

and while it's not a valid argument to many, the whole "law" thing doesn't really mean much to me in this kind of case

Do you ìgnore speed limits too?

Yes

[whoisjohngalt]

Dec 10, 2013 11:04:11 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Dec 10, 2013 10:58:50 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

getting into a pissing contest

and while it's not a valid argument to many, the whole "law" thing doesn't really mean much to me in this kind of case

Do you ìgnore speed limits too?

sure, don't you?

[billisonboard]

Dec 10, 2013 11:12:24 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

Dec 10, 2013 11:04:11 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Do you ìgnore speed limits too?

sure, don't you?

I personally do not ignore speed limit signs. I do not always follow them exactly, but I do take them, as well as other factors, into account when determining how fast to go. An example is when approaching a small town, I always slow to the posted speed so that I can smile and wave to the cop sitting right around that first bend in the road. Drivers (and bakers) should be aware of the lay of the land and adjust behavior accordingly.

[Tennesseer]

Dec 10, 2013 11:12:24 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

Dec 10, 2013 11:04:11 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Do you ìgnore speed limits too?

sure, don't you?

Sure I do.  And I would ìmagine you, Miss Tequila and me should not be surprised if we are ticketed and fined for breaking state speeding laws.



The same applies to the bakery.   .  

[whoisjohngalt]

Dec 10, 2013 11:21:17 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Dec 10, 2013 11:12:24 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

sure, don't you?

Sure I do.  And I would ìmagine you, Miss Tequila and me should not be surprised if we are ticketed and fined for breaking state speeding laws.



The same applies to the bakery.   .  

Where did I ever say that bakers should have been surprised?

But if I got ticketed for going 56 on 55 road, I would have thought the same thing - cop has too much free time on his hands and is getting into a pissing contest with me instead of truly carrying about the law and what it means

[Tennesseer]

Dec 10, 2013 11:25:13 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

Dec 10, 2013 11:21:17 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Sure I do.  And I would ìmagine you, Miss Tequila and me should not be surprised if we are ticketed and fined for breaking state speeding laws.



The same applies to the bakery.   .  

Where did I ever say that bakers should have been surprised?

But if I got ticketed for going 56 on 55 road, I would have thought the same thing - cop has too much free time on his hands and is getting into a pissing contest with me instead of truly carrying about the law and what it means?

Most folks do not get a speeding ticket for going on MPH over the limit.  Have you?

I would think the cop does care about state speed laws and what they mean if he tickets you for speeding.