greeniis10
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Post by greeniis10 on Oct 24, 2013 13:18:54 GMT -5
Ummm... I'd like to think I was a pretty unbratty kid, but at 18, I don't remember being all that interested in asking my Grandparents how they felt. I think your MIL is asking a little too much from your SD. I'm more of a brat now because I don't call my only living Grandparent at this point because she can't talk to me without criticizing me. That is ridiculous, I'm sorry. And 18 yr old kid visiting her grandmother in the ICU knows enough to ask how that person is feeling. Maybe it's a cultural thing or maybe most people are just better than me (more likely), but I'm with Mutt here: I DID go through a bratty teenage stage and although I was never narcissitic (did not like attention; just wanted to fade into the background) I WAS selfish and overwhelmed with my own emotions and feelings and struggles. I rarely thought of other people including any of my grandparents. They were all older when I was in that stage so hospital and/or nursing home stays were common. I had an irrational fear of those places when I was young and I'd literally throwup and/or faint anytime I went in one of those places, so visits were out. Occasionally I'd remember to ask how they were but only if my mom was glaring at me with some look that made me feel guilty. Yes, it's embarassing to admit that now and I DO regret the time I missed, but it's not totally unheard of to be so wrapped up in yourself that forget the outside world (until you need something). Wish we knew what was going on in your SD's head!
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Oct 24, 2013 13:19:11 GMT -5
Mhmm-
some of this we went through with the SS. Sometimes we'd get calls at 3 in the morning he was in rehab. He got high and got in a car accident. Or he was using again. He'd stolen someone's Rx. It was very dark times. It took several years and relapses before he got clean (hopefully for good). We had to wait and hope and cry and wait some more. It was hard for us to have a trusting, open relationship with him again but I think we are finally in the home stretch. He's studying hard and working hard and has a stable girlfriend. All these things are good for him. Hopefully we can be that patient with DSD, too.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 24, 2013 13:19:49 GMT -5
Ummm... I'd like to think I was a pretty unbratty kid, but at 18, I don't remember being all that interested in asking my Grandparents how they felt. I think your MIL is asking a little too much from your SD. I'm more of a brat now because I don't call my only living Grandparent at this point because she can't talk to me without criticizing me. Seriously?!?! you wouldn't have any interest about how a grandparent in the hospital felt? that seems pretty darn bratty and horrible to me Had I done anything even remotely like that, I probably couldn't have walked for a week. My kids wouldn't have been much different. That's just unconscionable.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 24, 2013 13:22:42 GMT -5
Mhmm- some of this we went through with the SS. Sometimes we'd get calls at 3 in the morning he was in rehab. He got high and got in a car accident. Or he was using again. He'd stolen someone's Rx. It was very dark times. It took several years and relapses before he got clean (hopefully for good). We had to wait and hope and cry and wait some more. It was hard for us to have a trusting, open relationship with him again but I think we are finally in the home stretch. He's studying hard and working hard and has a stable girlfriend. All these things are good for him. Hopefully we can be that patient with DSD, too. It's so rewarding when it works out right! I'm glad it was that way for your SS and I sure hope he's grateful enough to keep trudging forward. The problem with SD, however, just doesn't sound the same, unless drugs are involved. I'd think, if they were, your SS would have said so. He is, after all, able to be in contact with her. Her problems sound more like a long-standing personality disorder to me - one that's been fed rather than dealt with.
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greeniis10
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Post by greeniis10 on Oct 24, 2013 13:22:55 GMT -5
Yep, sarcasticwitch, I admittedly was very selfish and bratty at that age, too. It does pain me to say it, even on an anonymous message board, but I did want to share simply because it does happen. I'm not a terrible person now and I grew up farily quickly but I had a few years during which struggling with "growing up" superceded the actual realities of the rest of the world.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Oct 24, 2013 13:26:21 GMT -5
Ummm... I'd like to think I was a pretty unbratty kid, but at 18, I don't remember being all that interested in asking my Grandparents how they felt. I think your MIL is asking a little too much from your SD. I'm more of a brat now because I don't call my only living Grandparent at this point because she can't talk to me without criticizing me. Seriously?!?! you wouldn't have any interest about how a grandparent in the hospital felt? that seems pretty darn bratty and horrible to me I was assuming she meant in general, not in the hospital. In general, no I didn't call up my Grandparents out of the blue to chat. I still don't because of the reason stated above. My dad's mom when she was alive used email, so I would email her, but calling was an issue due to poor hearing. Yes in the hospital, I visited and asked. Well, I guess technically I didn't make the trip up to the hospital when my Grandma had her quadruple bypass, but I did come visit when she was in the nursing home and recovering. I didn't call her when she was in the hospital. I didn't want to interrupt her resting. When someone says Oh I want a relationship and I want them to know me, it just seems odd under normal circumstances to ask the teenager to seek them out. My nearly 16 year old nephew doesn't seek out my parents. He knows they are in his corner, but when they come to visit, he barely talks to them, but not in a rude way, just in a teenager, I don't talk sort of way and he isn't a brat in anyway, shape or form. My 16 year old niece didn't call up my MIL and ask her to come to her soccer games. Her mom did it.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Oct 24, 2013 13:32:27 GMT -5
Seriously?!?! you wouldn't have any interest about how a grandparent in the hospital felt? that seems pretty darn bratty and horrible to me Had I done anything even remotely like that, I probably couldn't have walked for a week. My kids wouldn't have been much different. That's just unconscionable. I was 20 and in college in another state when my Grandma had her quadruple bypass. Yes, I cared, but I didn't call and talk to her while she was in the hospital. A couple reasons, she was hard of hearing, making it difficult to communicate, she needed a ton of rest and I didn't want to interrupt that. My parents were keeping me informed as to what was going on. About a month later, I had time to make a trip up to visit her in the nursing home when she was up a little more for visitors. My siblings didn't go and visit her in the hospital either. Well, my brother might have because he and his wife were DINKs at the time and prone to taking crazy road trips, but my sister had 2 small children, and I know she didn't make the trip.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Oct 24, 2013 13:34:46 GMT -5
Well, let's move on whether it's normal or not... the point is she is hurting other people besides mom and dad.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Oct 24, 2013 13:38:54 GMT -5
Well, let's move on whether it's normal or not... the point is she is hurting other people besides mom and dad. And from where she sits she is far too young and inexperienced to realize the long-term emotional and relationship damage she is causing. She is caught up in wanting what she wants. And clearly her dysfunctional pattern has served her well to this point. I really hope she does not end up bitter, burned out, friendless and alone because she used people (especially her dad). But it's always a possibility, unfortunately. We all have them in our families. And we regularly bash them here
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greeniis10
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Post by greeniis10 on Oct 24, 2013 13:43:25 GMT -5
Well, let's move on whether it's normal or not... the point is she is hurting other people besides mom and dad. I'm sorry! That's my next question, though: does she have a boyfriend? Does she have roommates? What about friends? I'm wondering what THOSE people would say her behavior is like? What about her teachers and instructors? If this poor treatment is directly at any and all family only, then I'd say it's more personal history related. IF it is directed at everyone there could be more to it. You'd have to be careful how you approach it, but a parent contacting their child's college instructors and/or friends to check on them out of love and concern wouldn't be completely unheard of, would it?
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Oct 24, 2013 14:12:57 GMT -5
HoneyBarBQ, I haven't read all of the posts because ten pages full of emotion is just too much for me right now, but I wish you well.
One thing I've learned in going through a difficult divorce and time with my DD at that age is that I don't let anyone else spin my wheels for me. If I want to spin my wheels and get worked up about something, that's my choice. But, this kid has all these adults running around trying to get her to see reason, ask the right questions about how grandma is feeling, make her choose the right decsions, and such.
Really, why are you all worrying about HER ? She needs to come to terms with the fact that adults are just that, adults, and to get respect, you must give respect. I wouldn't waste another phone call, text, email, visit, or dime on her until she figures it out.
She's probably hugging herself with delight at the great bombast she's causing. My stepmother has five children, and one of her sayings that I really admire is " Sometimes, you have to sit in your own ashes for awhile. "
See if any of this can give you and your DH some relief from this B.S. Good luck.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 24, 2013 14:47:47 GMT -5
Honey, I am so sorry for you.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Oct 24, 2013 14:49:54 GMT -5
Not to debate the Grandma thing too much. But my dad's mom was an absolutely wonderful woman and I miss her to this day. However, I did not live within 15 miles of her like my Aunt and Uncle. I did not realize it until much later, but my Grandma and Grandpa not only criticized my Aunt and Uncle for how they were raising my cousins, but then continuously sang the praises of me and my siblings to them. I don't know specifics, but I do know how my Aunt and Uncle feel about it now. My dad and uncle have been able to put most of it behind them. It has caused a build up of a lot of resentment in my Aunt that my mom was the favorite DIL. I am far closer to my Aunt and Uncle than my siblings because they don't have a child within 4 months of age of me. My siblings are 4 months and 2 months older than their cousins. I'm sure my Aunt and uncle received so many direct comparisons between my siblings and their cousins that even with the kids grown now, my Aunt and Uncle don't have as much of a relationship with my brother and sister as they do with me. Anyway, with us kids and at least my side of the family it was no big deal and our Grandma was a saint.
My point is people (even elderly) react differently to different people. I'm the only one on my mom's side of the family that can't blow my Grandma's hurtful words off. Everyone else tells me it is just Grandma and to get over it. But unlike them, I can't (and we've all been on the receiving end at some point, although I think I'm the only one that Grandma said I was abusive parent). I'm sure my Grandma's neighbors would be shocked to know that I don't really like her and don't get along with her, but she is different with me than she is to them.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Oct 24, 2013 14:50:20 GMT -5
Honey, I am so sorry for you. Thanks. I'm just frustrated. It's not ruining my life. I'm just afraid DSD is ruining hers.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 24, 2013 14:54:23 GMT -5
She may turn out fine but the years and the behavior will always be remembered. I will never forget the hell DD put me through but she's turned out pretty decent so there's always hope. But I would NEVER EVER give a dime to someone who treated me like that, period. It kills me that DF does because to me it says he doesn't respect himself and he raised money grabbers and he knows it. Those parents are failures in everyone's eyes.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Oct 24, 2013 14:55:12 GMT -5
Well, let's move on whether it's normal or not... the point is she is hurting other people besides mom and dad. I'm sorry! That's my next question, though: does she have a boyfriend? Does she have roommates? What about friends? I'm wondering what THOSE people would say her behavior is like? What about her teachers and instructors? If this poor treatment is directly at any and all family only, then I'd say it's more personal history related. IF it is directed at everyone there could be more to it. You'd have to be careful how you approach it, but a parent contacting their child's college instructors and/or friends to check on them out of love and concern wouldn't be completely unheard of, would it? Not a local boyfriend. She may have a boy she skypes with in another state. She lives in a private dorm room. I think she has friends, but as described before, she tried to rush and wasn't accepted... at least by the sorority that she wanted. I don't know about teachers and instructors. It might be worth a shot.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 24, 2013 15:00:07 GMT -5
I'm just afraid DSD is ruining hers
It's certainly possible but it's her choice to make. You can't save someone from herself unfortunately.
You can keep the lines of communication open in a netural manner like Swamp suggested and if she manages to pull her head out of her butt you can work towards having a functional relationship again.
It's not easy I would say my brother and I are more strained than we were back when he was in high school, we can't really take back what we've said to each other. But we are on speaking terms again and things are a lot quieter. Time will tell if we can ever bridge the gap that was created.
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greeniis10
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Post by greeniis10 on Oct 24, 2013 15:04:49 GMT -5
Possibly. What is your opinion of her social skills overall (interractions that don't involve family)? Has she been stuggling with the social aspect of her life through high school? Or was she one of the popular ones and then had to start all over at college? Please pardon me if I'm overstepping! Just concerned, as you are, of course.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Oct 24, 2013 15:27:52 GMT -5
Possibly. What is your opinion of her social skills overall (interractions that don't involve family)? Has she been stuggling with the social aspect of her life through high school? Or was she one of the popular ones and then had to start all over at college? Please pardon me if I'm overstepping! Just concerned, as you are, of course. You're not overstepping at all. I'm the one putting it out there. She's social and an extrovert but very princess-ey. She has (had?) friends, but they are all competitive. She had a new best friend every week. Honestly, it all sounded more normal than not at the time. I think most of her friends went to different colleges but I'm not sure. In the church group I described, she was chosen to be in charge of her little clique but not in charge of any larger group. So I'd say she's popular in small circles. But I do know her attitude and the way she treats people has impeded her there. She also has some serious anti-authority stuff going on, even within her church group that has raised some eyebrows in the past. But again, this is all 3rd/4th hand stuff. I think her overall social circle is similar to what we're up against as adults. Do what she wants and you're in. Go against her and you're out. I think she's a bit of a dictator/boss. She has told us she was told she was too bossy to be a leader in the church group.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Oct 24, 2013 15:35:56 GMT -5
And I think it's been 20 years. He has grandkids he's never met. How do you live like that? I don't know. That's a big big broken heart. How do you ever become whole again after that if she never comes back around? It all depends. My kids could pass by my folks down walking down the street and not know that they are related. My folks don't seem to have a broken heart over it. They are going through their life, just as we are ours. Even a health crisis (terminal cancer) wasn't enough to begin to set aside differences. I wasn't allowed/welcome to visit my folks with that diagnosis. It took me a long time to get that it wasn't me. I've actually really taken the time to think about things. I still am basically the same person that I've always been. I get validation from other people that indeed, I'm OK. And, sure, I got the validation from my folks. But, with everything else I was dealing with, I really did think for a long time that surely, I must have been the problem. I can't all quote another thing I saw. you mentioned that the mother and daughter are entwined. It's called enmeshment. It's yet another sign that the mother/daughter relationship isn't healthy.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Oct 24, 2013 15:39:42 GMT -5
I used to work for someone like this... it is even harder to stomach when it is 58 yr old acting this way. Behind her back we called her George W. "you're either with us or against us"
Anyway, I really hope she turns herself around. She is only 18 so it's not like it is set in stone that she is going to be like this forever but I understand the concern as she seems to be a very insensitive person with a "me" mentality.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Oct 24, 2013 15:50:04 GMT -5
I'm just afraid DSD is ruining hers. I hear your concern. She's got to hit rock bottom before she decides to change. And, she may not decide to change at all, even if she's lost family. In this respect, again, it would be helpful for your DH to get some therapy to work through this. Letting go of a loved one isn't for the faint at heart. It's very hard to do, actually. To love yourself enough to let go of others. Plus, your H migh be able to role play all the questions that will come from well-meaning folks that are engaging in polite chit-chat. Especially now that the holidays are upon us.
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greeniis10
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Post by greeniis10 on Oct 24, 2013 15:51:11 GMT -5
Giramomma, I'm sorry for all you've gone through (and continue to) with your family. The way you've handled it and have risen above it is exceptional and commendable!
And, honeybbq, I'm in no way minimizing all the stress your SD is putting you through, but the princess attitude, the bossiness, and aversion to authority should all be tamed once she gets more into the real world. I know you said she has a part-time job now, but there's nothing like your first "real" job to teach you that the world does not revolve around you, nor does it react on your commands.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Oct 24, 2013 16:03:21 GMT -5
Giramomma, I'm sorry for all you've gone through (and continue to) with your family. The way you've handled it and have risen above it is exceptional and commendable! Thanks. I always didn't handle things very well at all. Sometimes, my behavior was exactly like Honey's DSD...
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 24, 2013 17:01:52 GMT -5
As was DDs, even up to a few years ago. If she got mad and you didn't agree with her, you were on her shit list. I actually would try to apologize and placate her for Pete's sake. That's how low I sunk/bought into her BS. But I did read those books and I did grow a spine and I was totally willing to walk away from her and our relationship. Her brother also can't stand her but is willing, since I have told him she has changed, to give her another try. Since I grew a spine, our relationship is better. She has also matured which helped. But I am totally willing to tell her to go to hell if I need to and your DH needs to be able to do that. DF still isn't there and that's okay. It takes time.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 24, 2013 17:02:15 GMT -5
But I won't marry a man with no spine, period.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2013 17:43:16 GMT -5
I don't agree with cutting all contact with your 18 yo child. Disengaging when they're being hateful towards you, yes I agree with that. Telling them to let the door hit 'em where the Good Lord split 'em and don't look back...... not so much. I guess my kids would have to try to kill me or something equally unimaginable for me to cut them completely out of my life so young. I kicked my son out of my house over a year ago. He'd just turned 19 and didn't really have anywhere to go. A whole lot of things would have to happen before I'd even consider considering letting him move back in, but he can come visit me, he's welcome at family gatherings, he can come here and eat if I'm home and he's hungry. We talk on the phone at least every few days, sometimes every day. It's often just a quick, "hey, how have you been doing" thing, but that's fine. The point is that he knows I still love him and care what happens to him, I'm just not entertaining any bullshit. When he found a job, I dropped him off for work sometimes, on my way to work. One morning he wasn't ready on time. I told him that if it happened again, I wouldn't wait because I wasn't going to rush to get to my job on time or be late, fooling with him. The next time he wasn't ready, I left him and told him I wasn't going to take him anymore. And I didn't. When he decides to do something *I* feel is constructive, I'll help him as much as I'm comfortable with. In the meantime, I try to maintain the relationship and make sure he knows I'm here when he's ready. My children are a mess and they do crazy stuff that I just don't understand. But even after everything that has happened, all the anger and issues, the lines of communication are open and we still hug each other and say "I love you" fairly often. I'm grateful that at least we do have that. This thread makes me very sad.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Oct 24, 2013 17:55:40 GMT -5
I am always the first one to walk away from a relationship that might even hint at becoming unhealthy, but I really can't advocate that with an 18 year old child. Her behavior sounds deplorable, but it didn't happen in a vacuum. 18 year olds are selfish and immature. I moved out when I was 18. Went to school, held down 2+ jobs, paid 100% of my own bills and I was still selfish and immature. When I read the things I wrote back then....I'm astounded that such thoughts could have come out of my brain. But they're my journals and my handwriting so as much as I'd like to rewrite history and say it never happened I can't.
Honey--how often and in what format does your dh currently reach out to dsd?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 24, 2013 20:27:43 GMT -5
She's got a mom. She won't totally be on her own. If her mom is willing to tolerate that behavior, so be it. That doesn't mean dad and stepmom have to. If she has no money and no family, maybe she will wake up. Maybe she won't but no way should honey and her husband subject themselves to that nonsense.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Oct 24, 2013 21:39:10 GMT -5
I'm just afraid DSD is ruining hers.
I don't think she will. Unless she really does stupid things (law breaking) she is still getting life experiences and is on a long learning curve.
Next time she asks (demands) funds just say you can't do it but she is welcome to bring her laundry over when you are home to get it done. And maybe serve lunch.
I didn't read the 10 pages but it sounds like she knows what buttons to push. Remember no is a shorter word than yes .... and a lot easier to say and change if needed. Say 'no' with a smile on your face and in your voice, but say NO.
Don't forget who the parents are ........ and the two of you are married partners.
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