HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Oct 23, 2013 16:08:30 GMT -5
From my own past as a spiteful, bratty, 18 year old I'd say that your SD may have some serious emotional/mental issues going on and rather than assign this to pure bitchiness it may be time to meet with her in person and see if she's depressed, has anxiety, or some other problem. A ton of mental health problems crop up in the late teens/early 20's, especially when kids go off to college. When we were kids my brother was the one that acted out and I was the one that acted "in". We both were suffering but it was more clearly identifiable in him because of the drugs and homelessness. Maybe it's time for her to take a break from college. Maybe it's not. I don't see that switching majors is horribly wrong. If she's getting bad grades taking a break would be preferable because it would leave her with more options if she chose to change schools or go on to a graduate program. DH had a trust fund for college. He futzed around for a year, completed very few courses, and then tried again a decade later with much better results. Living out in the real world taught him the value of an education and what he wanted to learn more than any lecture from his parents did. Meanwhile the trust fund had a decade to grow and more than funded college when he was ready. If she drops out of school then let the money grow for her and give her some options when she is older. Otherwise, reimburse after you've seen the report cards. I grew up without a lot. Sometimes I get angry at DS because he is so privileged and doesn't value what he's been given. But how could he? It's all he's ever known. Using my upbringing to find him less worthy or appreciative is my failure as a parent. Some of the things you said make me feel like you are projecting your own experience on your SD and not giving her the space to have her own perspective without you feeling angry or judged. She won't see us. She "hates" us. When H flew out to see his grandmother, this is in the same city where SD is. She wouldn't go see her grandmother when he was there. We have good insurance. She used to go see a therapist. I don't know if she is anymore or not. I'm guessing no, because she hates all doctors, adults, therapists, etc. She pretty much hates everyone. I'm reading your last paragraph and while it may be true, I don't think it is. We are both STEM people. And we are fully supporting her degree in theater arts because that is what she loves and likes to do. We've never tried to get her to do something she didn't want to do in her studies. We never said we'd only pay for her education if she gets a stem degree. We just want her to have SOME accountability and respect for our bank accounts. And treat us like human beings. That's ALL! There's a big difference between this: "Dad, I know I have this really great scholarship at _____ in theater, but I'm just not happy doing that anymore. So what I'd really like to do is finish out the year and then transfer to ________. They have a really great program in ___________ and I talked to the professors there and they have this great internship I'd love to get into. Do you think there is any way I could give up my scholarship and go there instead?" and: "I hate you and this stupid school. I'm going to go do something else and nobody is going to stop me. And I'm going to spend all the money you and grandpa saved and I don't care what you say or do! I hate you and I hate mom and I hate grandmom and you all suck!" *throws iphone into the wall and then screams at mom until she buys another*
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Oct 23, 2013 16:12:11 GMT -5
Based on what I see the college students wearing around my neighborhood, as long as you're not naked, you're adequately clothed. Yes, most students would agree that any wardrobe is acceptable for food halls and classes, but going on dates, parties and events is another story. It's like being a freshman in high school all over again when you're just trying to be liked, fit in and look pretty. Interesting ... given that my college experience was in Podunk, Missouri with a bunch of engineers ... the as long as you weren't naked worked for pretty much everything.
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kilroy
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Post by kilroy on Oct 23, 2013 16:12:47 GMT -5
As far as inadequate clothing goes, all I could think of was my freshman roommate who arrived at our Massachusetts campus from her home in Florida with nothing but miniskirts and skimpy tops. About a month later I took her shopping for a winter coat, boots and other necessities
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Oct 23, 2013 16:15:02 GMT -5
Yes, most students would agree that any wardrobe is acceptable for food halls and classes, but going on dates, parties and events is another story. It's like being a freshman in high school all over again when you're just trying to be liked, fit in and look pretty. Interesting ... given that my college experience was in Podunk, Missouri with a bunch of engineers ... the as long as you weren't naked worked for pretty much everything. You went to UM?
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Oct 23, 2013 16:16:06 GMT -5
As far as inadequate clothing goes, all I could think of was my freshman roommate who arrived at our Massachusetts campus from her home in Florida with nothing but miniskirts and skimpy tops. About a month later I took her shopping for a winter coat, boots and other necessities Hah. That reminds me of a guy from Rice University (in Houston) interviewed for graduate school in Madison, WI in MARCH. He didn't bring a coat because it was 75 degrees at home. Classic case of brilliant guy with absolutely no real life skillz.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 23, 2013 16:16:54 GMT -5
STOP the money, period. Some people are just bad with money and it looks like the two of you have a lot of money to throw around. Easier to throw it at former ex and keep kids away but now all they've seen is what bio mom does and it's a lot of pitiful nothing it seems. Alimony like CS eventually ends so I hope mumsy doesn't end up on the street. DF is having this issue right now with his bio. I KNOW he's shamed of her and how embarrassing to know that your family only wants you if you're stroking a check. DFs ex has, I'm sure, informed her children that they inherit everything anyway so they don't need to suck up to him at all. Funny how the two stepkids that he raised are the decent ones and bio child the bitch. But that bitchiness will bite her in the ass, that I can promise you.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 23, 2013 16:20:20 GMT -5
BTW, some schools the students still dress nicely for class. In Florida this is true. I'm assuming she goes to a nice college even though her major will land her a MRS. Degree if she's lucky. Considering no sorority took her and most schools have some that will still take anyone, I'm assuming the ones she wanted didnt want her. Usually you can be taken afterwards by sororities that didn't fill their pledge ranks but the fact is, as dumb as she is with money, she was smart to realize hooking up with a bad sorority would not make her happy. There's always spring rush so you're not off the hook, yet.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Oct 23, 2013 16:21:20 GMT -5
Interesting ... given that my college experience was in Podunk, Missouri with a bunch of engineers ... the as long as you weren't naked worked for pretty much everything. You went to UM? Mizzou? (stinking my nose in the air), no. UMR, yes.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Oct 23, 2013 16:24:41 GMT -5
She's 18. The world doesn't care anymore. 12 year olds act out to get attention and get away with it. Adults act out and it has consequences. Job loss, homelessness, getting kicked out of school, ruining relationships.
Oh, and if she wants to sit down and compare woe is me stories, I'll take her on any day.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Oct 23, 2013 16:25:04 GMT -5
Honey, I am no Dr Phil, but needless to say this is so not about the money or changing majors or laptop. I thought all this "I hate everyone" stuff usually happens at 15, but I wonder if the fact that you guys just had a little girl (she is around 2, right ?) also fueling her emotions as well.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Oct 23, 2013 16:25:17 GMT -5
Anne, no - I get it. I agree with you. I never said she had a perfect life and she has no reason to gripe or be angry or anything. But she is crossing over the line time and time again.
And she did have a good life with her parents. I'm not sure the statement about "a sibling who's living the life she didn't get" is very accurate, but I'm sure she does have jealous about the possibility someone will get something she didn't.
I will mention the therapist to H. I'm sure that at least suggesting it can't hurt more than we already are.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Oct 23, 2013 16:30:10 GMT -5
Honey, I am no Dr Phil, but needless to say this is so not about the money or changing majors or laptop. I thought all this "I hate everyone" stuff usually happens at 15, but I wonder if the fact that you guys just had a little girl (she is around 2, right ?) also fueling her emotions as well. It definitely is part of it. She was angry before and is still angry. I think I said it's been going on around 4 years. So while it can be fueling it there are other parts that initiated it and are propelling. I'm sure she's still angry about her parent's divorce though it's been ~10 years. We are both sympathetic to the half-sister issue. I don't think that was easy for anyone. At some point you have to stop blaming everyone around you and start using what you have to make your own future. I was hoping that getting away from her mom and off to college would help start that. Instead it has been a new war. It's sad for me and sad for her and sad for H. But it's not just us. Its everyone around her. Maybe she does need a shrink.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2013 16:34:22 GMT -5
So... we should give her 40,000 or 50,000 and not hold her accountable?
NO! I definitely take that back. Maybe give her 10K per year and tell her that's all she's getting?
If you keep her money and don't give her what she asks for (in the case of only give $100 when she asked for $250), you will continue to have these battles.
Are you serious?! They should just give her $250 because she asks for it?! Even though they are paying for everything else, and it turns out, she EARNS money, but doesn't think the money she earns herself COUNTS?!
Sure, HBBQ and her DH (the dad) should DEFINITELY pony up $250 just because the kid asks, so as not to cause any resentment! And if next year it's $500, let them pony that up too!
What planet do you live on?!
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Oct 23, 2013 16:35:09 GMT -5
NastyWoman - I understand where you're coming from, but I can tell you, as a step-child, that is the worst advice ever.
HoneyBBQ - I know you probably know this already, but I am going to say it anyway. You can talk to your DH about this situation, the two of you can come up with a plan, be as involved with him as you need to be. When it comes time to talking to his daughter, that needs to be him and him alone. You should not be in the room. It's even better if you aren't even in the house. I say this as someone who had a good relationship with both of my parents and a decent relationship with both of my step-parents. This is about her relationship to her father. In her presence, you need to keep yourself out of it. Trying to be there, even in support of your DH, just makes you the bad guy, just makes her think that if she can get Dad alone, she'll get what she wants. The two of you do not need to come to an agreement with her, he needs to come to an agreement with her.
I want you to also take a moment to be grateful. When your step-son rebelled, you worried about him ODing, about him dying. How much money was spent getting him physically and emotionally healthy? And after all that time and energy and probably some pretty awful things said to you both, you are now paying for him to be in college again. But it's okay, because he's grateful NOW. Contrast that with your step-daughter. She's being a hateful person, but your biggest worries are that she's asking for money and being disrespectful. She lied about her tuition to get $3k extra in money from you. And what did she spend that money on? Drugs? Alcohol? A kick-ass party for all of her friends? A trip to Mexico? No. She bought a laptop. Yes, an expensive laptop that's probably better than what she needs, but a laptop. Even in her rebelling, she's still a pretty responsible kid. What makes you think that in another 5-10 years, step-daughter won't also be grateful?
For that matter, why did you assume that she'd grow out of it at 18, or when going to college? Is there something magic about either? Personally, I think it's silly that society in general expects 18 year olds to know what they want to do with their lives. I didn't figure that out until I was in my early 30s, was married and had one degree already (that I didn't use). C didn't figure it out until his late 30s when he was laid off and couldn't get a new job. As for college, forget what my high school teachers tried to tell us, undergrad was the time of least responsibility/most freedom of my life. I started school with a full ride academic scholarship. I lost it.
The most magical thing about being 18 and in college, not living with either of your parents is the freedom it gives you to behave however you want to behave, to stretch your wings and be an awful, irresponsible person if that's how you're feeling. She doesn't have to go home at night to sleep at either of her parents' houses. She doesn't have to watch everyone fawn over how her brother turned his life around. She can be jealous and shallow and for the first time in her life, honestly put herself first and not have to worry about not having a place to sleep that night. And in the end, she's working her work study job. She's earned a scholarship. No where have you said that she is not getting good grades, just that she is irresponsible with money. Has anyone ever taught her how to be responsible? And again, yes, she lied to get extra money, but she spent it on a laptop.
She watched her brother do drugs and her father ride to the rescue and dad and step-mom are STILL paying for him. She becomes a moody teenage girl and her father pulls back, doesn't want to spend time with her. She asks for money and Dad says "only what I want to give you" (in her eyes). What kind of messages do you think she's receiving about her worth, her value to her father? I am NOT saying that either you or he are trying to send negative messages. But sometimes what we're trying to do doesn't matter. The "road to hell..." and all.
So, my advice. One, take a moment to be grateful that she's still a pretty good kid. Then, decide to send her father down to spend a long weekend with her. Let him have a talk with her about money, but let that being only one part of the weekend. Let the rest of the weekend be dad showing an actual interest in her life. Can he go and watch a production that she worked on sets for? Let her show him around campus. Have dad, for just one weekend, stop avoiding his daughter and actually seek her out.
Then, as part of consequences for her prior actions, tuition bills get sent directly to dad. Dad does not give her money but pays it directly to the school. If she wants a $250/month allowance, then she gets it as one lump sum at the beginning of the semester. She has to make it last until the new semester starts, no additional funds. This would be a lump sum of $1000-1250- not really that much in the scheme of things, but it would let her get used to managing her own money. She gets what she wants; you get what you want in that she doesn't get to ask for more money. If she spends it all, it's no big deal because her dorm and meal plan are already paid for, so you know she has a place to sleep and food to eat.
Give her a break. Give yourself a break. But tell your DH it's time to step up and actually be his daughter's father.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Oct 23, 2013 16:37:17 GMT -5
I feel bad for you. You are in a tough position. -rose-This is not the way you would have handled your SD and any input you have now is fraught with difficulties. Although it sucks it seems to me that crossing the line means she still cares about you guys enough to try to hurt you. It's effed up for sure but I'd be more worried if she completely disengaged. I meant that your DD gets to live with two loving parents under the same roof. Was it hard on your SD when you guys moved away? That is true what you say about trying to hurt us. Wise words. That was part of what was so hard about the stepson. When you're on drugs you just.don't.care. Looooong story.... but we aren't the ones who moved away initially. After the divorce, the ex took the kids and moved back home and in with her own mother and father (grandparents on the other side). Ex always wanted to live near her mom, so after the divorce, she moved back home within a few months and still lives there to this day. H allowed her to move out of state and keep the kids because he thought they would be happier that way. It's very strange, but the women in that family live in a sort of indentured servitude to their own mother; living with them and taking care of them until they die. We were hoping to break SD of that cycle. We actually moved closer to them for a few years, but circumstances forced us to move again. We are about as far away from them now as we were initially. SD had 2 loving parents under 1 roof for ~10 years or so. My daughter is only 2. Who knows if I will keep H around that long? Just kidding.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Oct 23, 2013 16:44:33 GMT -5
NastyWoman - I understand where you're coming from, but I can tell you, as a step-child, that is the worst advice ever.
HoneyBBQ - When it comes time to talking to his daughter, that needs to be him and him alone. You should not be in the room.
She bought a laptop.
Have dad, for just one weekend, stop avoiding his daughter and actually seek her out. Give her a break. Give yourself a break. But tell your DH it's time to step up and actually be his daughter's father. I do not interfere in their relationship at all. I haven't seen her in years, actually. H last saw her at her high school graduation. Everything lately is done with text messaging (she won't answer the phone or email). When H went to see his own mother in the hospital and SD wanted money, H asked if he could see her to give her the check. She said no, she was too busy. We've always offered to have her come see us any time she wants, and every time H has gone to see his son in the same city, he tries to see her but she is 'too busy' or too pissed off. Everything is on her terms and her terms alone. She bought a laptop so she can write hateful things about me and her dad on her blog. And Skype with friends. And play zombie shoot-em-up games. It may as well have been a trip to Mexico. There is absolutely no difference. It's not something that is going to help her career or her schooling. It was something she wanted therefore it was something she got. And maybe you mean something else by your last sentences but that is really really rude and judgmental. Just because he didn't have a contract set up for her college funds doesn't mean that he's not "stepping up" and "being a father". He is being as much of a father as she allows him to be; which at the moment is just signing his name on the checks. I don't know what the hell "just for one weekend" means. He is a father every day and every hour to her. He doesn't "avoid" her. He doesn't answer her text messages when she is writing how much she hates him and sends 100 texts in one hour saying "I hate you" over and over. That is the only avoidance he has done. But your post is really offensive. He is NOT an absentee father by choice. She has made it so.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 23, 2013 16:45:38 GMT -5
Whoa! Ohhhh, no! That would be said only once. That kid would be told in no uncertain terms she's on her own. She hates everybody? "Cool. That means we don't have to engage with you in any way anymore. Surely, engagement with those you hate can't be enjoyable, so we'll be happy to take that little chore off your hands. Send us a postcard from time to time, if you get the urge."
Is the grandparent who left the money for her education your husband's father? I'm sure he wouldn't care much for his son being treated in such a manner. I'd be certain his choice, were he living, would be to remove that little incentive for her to feel so bloody self-righteous she can defame everyone in the family.
This kid is darned lucky to be dealing with you and DH, IMO. She'd find a whole new world opening up if she had to deal with me!
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Oct 23, 2013 16:48:30 GMT -5
Heres a suggestion Calm down, back off.....Talk to her in a friendly way when she is behaving reasonably....and walk away when she isn't. Don't bother getting in to arguments.....Be friendly another day when the communication lines are open again. Take control quietly and without confrontation.... and lay out your objectives clearly. It must be hard for H because she will always be his little girl.....so don't burn any bridges they may have together. Don't abandon her because it can only make mattes worse..... but make it clear that if she wants to communicate then she has to be more adult. ....and you are there for her when she is ready to respond in an appropriate way. That way you would be setting the boundaries but taking the sting out of the relationship. Whatever else is going on with her its a vicious circle which has to be broken for everyone's sake.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Oct 23, 2013 16:49:30 GMT -5
Whoa! Ohhhh, no! That would be said only once. That kid would be told in no uncertain terms she's on her own. She hates everybody? "Cool. That means we don't have to engage with you in any way anymore. Surely, engagement with those you hate can't be enjoyable, so we'll be happy to take that little chore off your hands. Send us a postcard from time to time, if you get the urge." Is the grandparent who left the money for her education your husband's father? I'm sure he wouldn't care much for his son being treated in such a manner. I'd be certain his choice, were he living, would be to remove that little incentive for her to feel so bloody self-righteous she can defame everyone in the family. This kid is darned lucky to be dealing with you and DH, IMO. She'd find a whole new world opening up if she had to deal with me! She didn't actually say those things, but that is the gist of it. She really is very angry and mean to everyone, including her elderly grandmother. She acts out and yells at everyone and manipulates them. It's really very sad for everyone who has to be involved. Yes, it's is H's father (and mother) who is deceased.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Oct 23, 2013 16:51:25 GMT -5
Honey, I am no Dr Phil, but needless to say this is so not about the money or changing majors or laptop. I thought all this "I hate everyone" stuff usually happens at 15, but I wonder if the fact that you guys just had a little girl (she is around 2, right ?) also fueling her emotions as well. It definitely is part of it. She was angry before and is still angry. I think I said it's been going on around 4 years. So while it can be fueling it there are other parts that initiated it and are propelling. I'm sure she's still angry about her parent's divorce though it's been ~10 years. We are both sympathetic to the half-sister issue. I don't think that was easy for anyone. At some point you have to stop blaming everyone around you and start using what you have to make your own future. I was hoping that getting away from her mom and off to college would help start that. Instead it has been a new war. It's sad for me and sad for her and sad for H. But it's not just us. Its everyone around her. Maybe she does need a shrink. Well, I am 100% in that camp and until I met DH's family I thought that people ALWAYS get to that point. Turns out some never do. Let's hope that's not your SD's future. OK, so I have NO useful advice at all, just going to say that I am sorry you are going through this shit and I hope it gets better for everyone involved. Oh, last thought - any chance at all you can go there and talk to her in person and try to make her see how hurtful that kind behaviour is to her father. I don't know....probably useless.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2013 16:53:05 GMT -5
Could your DH try going to see HER, and seeing his DS on the side, instead of it being the other way around?
Honey I KNOW she is being hateful, but I think Shan has some good advice. And since what you guys are doing now doesn't seem to be working out that well, maybe try something else?
Maybe your DH can say he wants to spend a weekend with her, he's like to spend some time together? If she blows him off, she blows him off. But at least he will know he tried his best.
If your DH's son is in the same city, and they have a good relationship now, it seems logical that THEY make plans together, and then (understandably) your DH tries to include his DD too.
Maybe it's worth trying to make plans with just HER, this time?
Dunno, just trying to help.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 23, 2013 16:53:55 GMT -5
Honey, it sounds like she's said the equivalent, in many, many ways. It's really time for this young lady to learn that her mouth (or fingertips, in the case of texts) can leave her very much alone and without. She's got some sort of problem, but at her age there's nothing that can be done until SHE decides to do something about it. She almost sounds like a borderline personality disorder. She needs rules, and structure but it's going to play hell trying to get her to accept it, at this point. That hard head of hers is going to have to come into strong contact with a brick wall of magnificent proportion. Otherwise, she's going to have a terrible life and bring misery to everyone with whom she comes in contact.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Oct 23, 2013 16:55:24 GMT -5
whoisjohngalt - H was just there for a week taking care of his mom. SD wouldn't see him. This was even before the "asking for $250 but only getting $100" debacle. She is absolutely furious at us after that. And until she needs something, won't speak to us. I guess he could fly there and try to figure out where she is in the dorms and bang on her door but honestly she seems beyond reach at the moment. I hope she gets out of this. It will be a sad and unhealthy life for her if this keeps up. Thanks for the thoughts.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Oct 23, 2013 16:58:22 GMT -5
whoisjohngalt - H was just there for a week taking care of his mom. SD wouldn't see him. This was even before the "asking for $250 but only getting $100" debacle. She is absolutely furious at us after that. And until she needs something, won't speak to us. I guess he could fly there and try to figure out where she is in the dorms and bang on her door but honestly she seems beyond reach at the moment. I hope she gets out of this. It will be a sad and unhealthy life for her if this keeps up. Thanks for the thoughts. yeah, I posted this before I read your post.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Oct 23, 2013 16:58:49 GMT -5
Could your DH try going to see HER, and seeing his DS on the side, instead of it being the other way around? Honey I KNOW she is being hateful, but I think Shan has some good advice. And since what you guys are doing now doesn't seem to be working out that well, maybe try something else? Maybe your DH can say he wants to spend a weekend with her, he's like to spend some time together? If she blows him off, she blows him off. But at least he will know he tried his best. If your DH's son is in the same city, and they have a good relationship now, it seems logical that THEY make plans together, and then (understandably) your DH tries to include his DD too. Maybe it's worth trying to make plans with just HER, this time? Dunno, just trying to help. Debt - we have tried. In the past, he has gone to see her, bought $600 tickets, and then she gets mad about something and won't see him. They've made plans and she has no qualms about canceling them. We've bought HER tickets to come see us, and she simply decides not to get on the plane. It's really rather amazing how unavailable she makes herself until she needs something. I would fully support them going away for a weekend and being together. I have ALWAYS encouraged their special time together. And he has always tried to make it happen. I wish she were more open to a relationship. But at this point I just don't think she is. It is a helpful thought. There's no smoking gun here. Honestly, I just wanted to vent and I have heard some good things here. Suggesting a therapist to her mom might be the best one.
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HoneyBBQ
Junior Associate
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Oct 23, 2013 17:00:10 GMT -5
whoisjohngalt - H was just there for a week taking care of his mom. SD wouldn't see him. This was even before the "asking for $250 but only getting $100" debacle. She is absolutely furious at us after that. And until she needs something, won't speak to us. I guess he could fly there and try to figure out where she is in the dorms and bang on her door but honestly she seems beyond reach at the moment. I hope she gets out of this. It will be a sad and unhealthy life for her if this keeps up. Thanks for the thoughts. yeah, I posted this before I read your post. No worries. I'm posting a lot. lol. Gotta get that post count up. Or get shot by a zombie. Or something.
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Spellbound454
Senior Member
"In the end, we remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends"
Joined: Sept 9, 2011 17:28:42 GMT -5
Posts: 4,095
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Post by Spellbound454 on Oct 23, 2013 17:03:01 GMT -5
an you infect me?...I fancy a nibble before bed
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HoneyBBQ
Junior Associate
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Oct 23, 2013 17:03:36 GMT -5
an you infect me?...I fancy a nibble before bed You got it!
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whoisjohngalt
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:12:07 GMT -5
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Oct 23, 2013 17:04:07 GMT -5
So, I know this is not a Lifetime movie, but it's kind of strange that she is not allowing him to see her. She is not like bulimic/anorexic or on drugs or something and looks horrible, etc? right?
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Deleted
Joined: Oct 7, 2024 16:31:32 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2013 17:05:36 GMT -5
Honey, I'm sorry. I hope things work out for all of you.
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