Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Sept 23, 2013 23:11:08 GMT -5
My kid would absolutely be there helping with the cleaning, if they were stupid enough to trash someone else's place. After accepting whatever punishment the homeowner gave them, they'd have to worry about what penalty they'd be getting from their own Mom & Dad! What a bunch of enabling wimps for parents! I found out the hard way that apparently I'm a "tough" parent. There is a really awesome sheriff's deputy that works at the boys' school. Everybody loves her but they're also terrified of her - she's like 6' and built like a brick outhouse, doesn't take any crap. Anyway, DS#1 got in trouble a couple of years ago, and the deputy called me at home to let me know, but did it in a very soft way. She started out by telling me it had been handled and I didn't need to be angry or punish DS and that, in her opinion, although she needed to punish him because of the rules of the school, he was justified in his action. (He hit a known bully.) After a few minutes, she told me that DS was terrified of how angry I'd be with him and that she was calling to make sure I knew he didn't need any more punishment. So I'm more terrifying than a 6' tall woman with a gun, apparently. So yeah, my kids would probably rather deal with this homeowner than me. ^^ I never partied or got in trouble in high school. I was WAY more terrified of my parents than I was of getting in trouble from anyone else!
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Sept 23, 2013 23:34:54 GMT -5
Are you still allowed to whip asses after stunts like that? Heck yeah I'd get my kid or kids over there to clean up. And they'd not be allowed out again until they were adults and responsible for their own behavior. Vandalism of somebody's home would not be acceptable at all and I'm blown away that the parents of the little bastards are suing the victim who's house got vandalized. They should be embarrassed and not making excuses for them. This world is so screwed up I thank God every day I never had kids. What is wrong with people?! Isn't ANYBODY ever responsible for what they do anymore? How do you even pretend that this is ok and what the homeowner did is wrong or suable? If this goes any further legally I hope the Judge rips them a new asshole and makes them pay every penny to make this right.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Sept 23, 2013 23:45:32 GMT -5
I would like to think that we would show up to clean. But, if I didn't trust the guy, I might not. I know I'm suppose to let my child go to jail and learn their lesson and whatever - but I am not sure I would have either of my kids run out with an "I did it" tattoo, not knowing what the guy was really going to do that day. It could have been a "sting." I know that he said it was to clean up for the picnic and whatever - but who knows. I might be setting myself up for umpteen lawsuits and my kid might be thrown into the back of a wagon and carted away.
Now - what I can say for sure, I wouldn't threaten to sue him - even if he reposted the pictures of my kid. And, I will say for sure that just because I don't force my kid to make a public and blatant admission of guilt doesn't mean I would not punish the child.
There are a lot of assumptions that all 600 parent involved are thinking and acting in precisely one way, and then we are judging that way. It might be 4 families that feel that posting the pictures are court-worthy, and the other 296 families have starting researching rehab or beat the child past what is legal, or is coming up with some other appropriate and acceptable solution, without accidentally getting sued and thrown in jail.
It is very, very easy to jump on the side of the victim - especially when we have only heard one side of the story. But, life is more complex than that, and I know how lazy journalists can be. There might be more to this than just sending your kid to a man's house - knowing that guy is powerful, pissed and aligned with the police.
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Sept 24, 2013 0:04:12 GMT -5
The younger generation is filled with children/young adults who feel entitled - mainly due to their own parents who have not given their kids a moral compass to follow and then not taking these kids to task when they've screwed up, and following-up with consequences. They don't believe their little darlings could be little devils. Corporal punishment has flown out the window. Then when the kids go and do something like this, the parents want to sue the victim.
And to think that generation is going to be stepping in to the adult world next - and many (but not all) will still not have learned the lesson of taking responsibility for their actions, along with respect and responsibility.
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milee
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Post by milee on Sept 24, 2013 0:09:50 GMT -5
You don't need corporal punishment to be a good parent. There are many more creative ways to make your child suffer, um, I mean to provide discipline.
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Sept 24, 2013 0:20:30 GMT -5
Whatever method you choose - extra chores, no TV, straight home from school with no friends over, cutting off allowance for a month - no video/computer time - making them earn money to help repay the damages - or better yet, mowing the victim's lawn for the next two summers - and shoveling his snow for the next two winters - they'll learn a lesson from that. And their parents should be paying restitution for the damages their little delinquents caused.
Too many parents these days think that their little Johnny or Jane couldn't possibly be to blame for anything - because they've never been taught the difference between right and wrong - and given the guidance they should have had when younger.
And to think these kids' parents are thinking of suing?
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Sept 24, 2013 6:31:46 GMT -5
I used to think this way, then I had a kid. I'm much more sympathetic towards the parents now. Sometimes you are just at the end of your rope. DD is still a baby and she's very good in restaurants. But sometimes she cries and I just can't stop her. I do my best. I'll be honest, sometimes I just let them scream. Never happened in restaurants, but there has been times when I have been waiting and not received good service and I am irritated too. I let them scream because I can't, but wish I could. My best example was when DS had a really bad ear infection and I came to pick up the medicine when it was supposed to be ready, only it wasn't - it was going to be another 20 minutes. So we sat in front of the pharmacy at Walmart and eventually he started crying and screaming because he felt horrible and I let him. I consoled him, but I didn't try to quiet him and frankly I hoped he was bugging the shit out of every employee in the pharmacy because it was their fault we were there waiting and he didn't have the medication that would help him feel better. I'm sure everyone else in the store trying to work/get their shopping done also appreciated the screeching of your little progeny... Really?
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happyscooter
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Post by happyscooter on Sept 24, 2013 6:34:54 GMT -5
I understand babies crying. But temper tantrums from 4-7 year olds? Nope, didn't happen.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 24, 2013 6:47:04 GMT -5
*Zib, if you have a problem with an administrator, please take it to PMs or email moonbeam. It doesn't belong on the threads. Thanks. - mmhmm, Administrator
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Sept 24, 2013 8:19:43 GMT -5
Who the f#!K does that? Where do you people live that you see this sh!t? I know I don't get out much, but really?
Maybe it is where I live, but I'm not sure things have changed as much as people think they have changed. There have always been groups of parents (particularly upper middle class and wealthy) that have thought their children are special little snowflakes and can do no wrong. ALWAYS. This isn't something new. Maybe there are more now than before, or maybe we just hear about it more now than before with the constant flood of information via the internet.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Sept 24, 2013 8:29:21 GMT -5
Muttley- it happens more than you probably realize. Every time I leave the house and go to the store or a restaurant I see kids acting out and parents basically ignoring them. Yesterday I was waiting to pick the Boys up from school and watched two brothers take turns swinging from the little branches on the tree in front of the YMCA. Broke off a couple of branches, kicked some decorative rocks into the parking lot, etc. There mom stood their leaned up against her minivan smoking a cig and chatting on her cell phone. To be fair she did yell "knock it off" once but it had zero impact on the kids and they flat out ignored her. The kids looked to be about 6/7 and 9/10 years old. I may be more sensitive to it since that's exactly how my idiot brother parents and it drives me up a freaking wall. His kid will be coloring on my mom's wall with a permanent marker and all my brother would do is from across the room say "stop that" and go back to watching the football game. I got in trouble for overstepping my bounds the last time his 4 year old called my grandma a "stupid f#%king Bitch" and I put the kid in a time out.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2013 8:34:13 GMT -5
People normally don't go around accusing kids of misdeeds without some empirical evidence. So I am of the mindset that my kid is guilty until proven innocent.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Sept 24, 2013 8:37:09 GMT -5
I don't have kids, so I tend to see children's behavior in extremes, I have to admit. I see kids out of control in certain places, like the grocery store, department store and other retail settings, possibly because there is so much stimulation, so much for them to look at and ask for and everything is attractive to them. I used to see it in restaurants, too, but because of mobile electronics, I've noticed a change. Parents hand the kids the iPad with a movie playing, or give them the iPhone loaded with games and apps, and the kids are plugged in and playing or watching while the parents eat. Sometimes, there's no interaction between parents and kids, or the kids themselves. Seems strange to me, but the kids sure are quiet. It would not have, and could not have happened that way when I was a kid. Obviously, the devices were not around back in the Stone Age , but also because we were expected to pay attention and be attentive.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Sept 24, 2013 8:37:12 GMT -5
I live in a pretty wealthy area. Several of the top ten wealthiest counties in the country are clustered around here. The stuff I've seen and my brother has seen, well we'd be dead if we had acted like that. If my seven year old self had called my mom or my stepmom a stupid beyotch while hitting them, I'm not sure I would have lived to tell that tale.
I don't see it as much back in WV. My friends are not raising their kids like that. A baby crying is one thing, it happens. Children running around the store, restaurant, parking lot, etc is another. I don't want to run into little Johnny with my shopping cart or car because he's running amok all over the place. There's a reason we had to stay by the adults side when we were out and it wasn't because they were meanies!
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Sept 24, 2013 8:40:13 GMT -5
People normally don't go around accusing kids of misdeeds without some empirical evidence. So I am of the mindset that my kid is guilty until proven innocent. a BIG to you for that. I take the same line and am called a hardass for it. Don't really care. My DD will NOT be one of those whiney self absorbed types who believes they are entitied to do whatever the hell they want if I can help it. Too many parents are exactly the opposite. "My kid is innocent until I see videotaped evidence to the contrary, and even then I will find a reason to blame someone else for their actions..."( wait, isn't that what were're discussing here...)
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 24, 2013 8:41:34 GMT -5
My mom and dad were at Targetand some kid was screaming "F-YOU!" at the top of his lungs to his mother. You could hear him thru the entire store. We'd have been dead meat if we did that, but they said it was funny when it was someone else's problem.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2013 8:42:40 GMT -5
People normally don't go around accusing kids of misdeeds without some empirical evidence. So I am of the mindset that my kid is guilty until proven innocent. a BIG to you for that. I take the same line and am called a hardass for it. Don't really care. My DD will NOT be one of those whiney self absorbed types who believes they are entitied to do whatever the hell they want if I can help it. Too many parents are exactly the opposite. "My kid is innocent until I see videotaped evidence to the contrary, and even then I will find a reason to blame someone else for their actions..."( wait, isn't that what were're discussing here...)I guess I am the opposite. I try to err on the side of believing my kid, at least until they do something that really blows our trust of them.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2013 8:45:33 GMT -5
Even when they're teenagers, Archie? ETA: My kids are 8 & 7 so they don't go wandering the neighborhood by themselves just yet, but I can remember hanging around an abandoned house in our neighborhood growing up. The caretaker only came by once a month or so but would call us out on being in there when we weren't supposed to be (even though we didn't vandalize anything). My Mom believed her when she came down and said your kids are in that house and that's trespassing. Even though we swore up and down that we weren't there. So, if we weren't there, why would that woman even have a reason to come to our house and accuse us of being there??
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2013 8:46:23 GMT -5
Even when they're teenagers, Archie? Don't know yet.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Sept 24, 2013 8:48:20 GMT -5
My mom and dad were at Targetand some kid was screaming "F-YOU!" at the top of his lungs to his mother. You could hear him thru the entire store. We'd have been dead meat if we did that, but they said it was funny when it was someone else's problem. You and I would have been six feet under in the backyard.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 24, 2013 8:58:54 GMT -5
You and I would have been six feet under in the backyard.
My mom commented on how nice it was to be able to say say "Not my kid!". As a server I saw some doozies but honestly could count the number of bad tables with kids in 10 years on one hand. Now if we're talking tables with bad ADULTS I've encountered over 10 years. . how much time do you have?
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Sept 24, 2013 9:02:23 GMT -5
Muttley- it happens more than you probably realize. Every time I leave the house and go to the store or a restaurant I see kids acting out and parents basically ignoring them. Yesterday I was waiting to pick the Boys up from school and watched two brothers take turns swinging from the little branches on the tree in front of the YMCA. Broke off a couple of branches, kicked some decorative rocks into the parking lot, etc. There mom stood their leaned up against her minivan smoking a cig and chatting on her cell phone. To be fair she did yell "knock it off" once but it had zero impact on the kids and they flat out ignored her. The kids looked to be about 6/7 and 9/10 years old. I may be more sensitive to it since that's exactly how my idiot brother parents and it drives me up a freaking wall. His kid will be coloring on my mom's wall with a permanent marker and all my brother would do is from across the room say "stop that" and go back to watching the football game. I got in trouble for overstepping my bounds the last time his 4 year old called my grandma a "stupid f#%king Bitch" and I put the kid in a time out. I do think it is who you are around. My neighbor's kids are pretty wild and rambunctious compared to my DS, but still decently behaved. My brother's and sister's kids are all good kids and pretty well behaved too and when we are around, we all co-parent. I still don't think it happens that much more than "it use". Bad parenting isn't exclusive to one generation.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Sept 24, 2013 9:03:55 GMT -5
You and I would have been six feet under in the backyard.
My mom commented on how nice it was to be able to say say "Not my kid!". As a server I saw some doozies but honestly could count the number of bad tables with kids in 10 years on one hand. Now if we're talking tables with bad ADULTS I've encountered over 10 years. . how much time do you have? You were serving P&M'ers?
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Sept 24, 2013 9:07:47 GMT -5
I commend Mr. Holloway for his thoughtful approach to handling this crime. Unless I hear otherwise that he is a passive-aggressive prick who was always trying to screw with people, I'm going to believe that he was trying to teach the kids a much-needed lesson in making amends for one's mistakes.
As for the parents who want to sue him, assuming their cause of action passes muster, they can absolutely sue him and force him to hire attorneys and incur other legal costs. But my guess is that no competent judge or jury of Mr. Holloway's peers would ever let the parents win. In the end, such lawsuits would only serve to expose those parents for the selfish, self-centered, spineless, oxygen wasters that they are.
I can say all of that because I have my own experience to base it on. My ODS did something similar several years ago. We were new in town and he hooked up with a huge bunch of kids that I didn't know well and they would all go bike riding down the rail trail. The rail trail, at the time, went right by a shuttered office building that was slated to be torn down (and eventually was). The stupid morons, including MY son, threw rocks through the windows and snuck into the abandoned building on several occasions. They got busted and went through a diversion program through the state AD's office. They paid restitution (to pay to board up the broken windows). They wrote essays about the incident and why it was wrong and what they were going to change in their behavior. They performed 20 hours of community service each.
We also made ODS go to the important people in his life in town and own up to his misdeed and apologize -- even though those folks had no personal stake in the incident and even though the incident was never publicized (because the kids were minors and the building's owner was incredibly gracious and forgiving). We told ODS, for example, that his spot on a select lacrosse team meant he was representing the town, the program, the team, and the coach and that he owed those folks an apology for casting aspersions on them all by his own very stupid choices. Some were taken by surprise since ODS was viewed as a kid with good character and that view was maintained by his ownership of and regret for the incident. Others had heard rumors and were impressed by ODS's admission and regrets. These conversations were incredibly difficult for ODS, but he understood and accepted the necessity of having them.
And, then, my ODS spent at least a month on lockdown at home. DH and I were beyond pissed and, more importantly, very disappointed in ODS. In fact, ODS told us several months later that it was our expressed disappointment in him that registered most with him. His friends, including other members of the vandalism group, would show up at the door all sad-puppy-eyed and humiliated and ask me when ODS would be allowed to hang out again. I let each and every one of them know how disappointed I was in them, too, and how I knew they were all basically good kids who made a really stupid choice. I also told them that they got the one pass from me. The next time they were going to start appearing on my "poop list". Clearly, I was the toughest parent of the bunch and ODS had shared that with all of them. Some of them still won't look me in the eye, and I'm not sure that that is necessarily a bad thing. They have all stayed out of trouble since or at least ODS has. Maybe DH and I went overboard, but I don't think so. We wanted to use that incident as a teaching moment with ODS. We wanted him to know that we would hold him to a strict definition of right and wrong. We are smack in the middle of the teen years with our kids and we didn't want to leave them with any doubt about our expectations for their behavior. We also wanted them to know that we knew they would slip up along the way, and there would be consequences for those slip ups, but that we would still love them and could still love them even if we were mad as hell at them.
Time will tell if it sunk in. So far so good, knock on wood...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2013 9:17:11 GMT -5
also because we were expected to pay attention and be attentive. Is that how you interpret being seen but not heard? I think the constant eating out, waiting for service is actually a rather modern phenomenon. I don't think it was a norm in prior generations. As for guilty till innocent, no. Would require proof of guilt. But then, if you are guilty, you are responsible for your actions.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Sept 24, 2013 9:23:58 GMT -5
a BIG to you for that. I take the same line and am called a hardass for it. Don't really care. My DD will NOT be one of those whiney self absorbed types who believes they are entitied to do whatever the hell they want if I can help it. Too many parents are exactly the opposite. "My kid is innocent until I see videotaped evidence to the contrary, and even then I will find a reason to blame someone else for their actions..."( wait, isn't that what were're discussing here...)I guess I am the opposite. I try to err on the side of believing my kid, at least until they do something that really blows our trust of them. Aww, you are such an innocent parent...just wait until you hit the teenage years! Teenagers do stupid things. Teenagers lie to cover up their stupid mistakes. Unless I have a reason NOT to believe an adult who tells me they saw my dd doing something, I am believing the adult. An adult has no reason to lie to me just to get my dd in trouble (I wouldn't necessarly believe another teenager) but my dd DOES have reason to lie to me...because she knows her ass is grounded for a LONG time.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2013 9:24:58 GMT -5
EXACTLY!
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Sept 24, 2013 9:29:02 GMT -5
also because we were expected to pay attention and be attentive. Is that how you interpret being seen but not heard? I think the constant eating out, waiting for service is actually a rather modern phenomenon. I don't think it was a norm in prior generations. As for guilty till innocent, no. Would require proof of guilt. But then, if you are guilty, you are responsible for your actions. Nope. We were expected to partake in food and conversation. It was considered rude to do anything else in my day. And for the record, we ate out regularly, twice a week at least. Both my parents could and did cook very well, but we lived near a big city, and they believed that we could learn and practice good manners outside our house, too. And waiting for good food is hardly anything new. Preparation of good food takes time. We did not go out for fast food as kids. It existed, of course, but our parents did not consider that a dining out event.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2013 9:29:45 GMT -5
I guess I am the opposite. I try to err on the side of believing my kid, at least until they do something that really blows our trust of them. Aww, you are such an innocent parent...just wait until you hit the teenage years! Teenagers do stupid things. Teenagers lie to cover up their stupid mistakes. Yup. I also think this is the reason that parents of teenagers try to protect their kids from their own stupid mistakes.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Sept 24, 2013 9:32:02 GMT -5
Oy. PB ate my latest post.
Just wanted to add that many states have high school athletic governing bodies that have strict no tolerance rules when it comes to drug and alcohol use by high school athletes.
It is possible that some of the 300 at the party are high school athletes and are facing game suspensions, loss of seasons, or loss of an entire year's worth of high school sports if any of the pics posted on social media show kids drinking and/or drugging.
In our state, just being in the presence of kids drinking and drugging -- even if you are cold stone sober and never partake -- will get you the exact same consequences.
I could see a few dreams of playing college sports dying because of this one party and its exposure on social media.
But, at least around here, the rules are very clear and very well publicized. I can't speak for upstate New York, though.
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