shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Jul 18, 2013 16:33:25 GMT -5
I kind of think that we're becoming "mean girls" ourselves here. We don't actually know what Zib's relationship with her daughter is like. All we have are her comments, interpreted in the way we choose, and "heard" in the tone of voice we each choose to read them in, and our own assumptions.
My mom and I have an excellent relationship, and never in my life have I doubted her love for me or her support of me as a person. Self esteem issues have never been a problem for me. She's also incredibly critical, including (and especially) about my weight. And yet she never even mentioned to me that thyroid issues run in the family until I was well into adulthood, and she realized (after trying to find some snack food in our house) that I didn't eat junk all the time. (For the record, I do have a thyroid issue, but randomly enough, not one that has any bearing on my weight.) For the most part, I don't notice what she says, because that's the way she is. It drives C crazy, crazy enough, in fact, that I talked to her about it, and she does her best to be less critical because of it. C's mom wasn't critical at all, but was excellent at using guilt to get her way. The guilt trips drove me crazy- to the point that I once screamed at her for the way she was talking to him. C did not really notice it, because that was the way she always was. (And no, me screaming at her did not make her less likely to use guilt, though she did stop using the line "if you're the reason I lived, I made the wrong decision".)
If both of our mothers were on this board (mine's not, his is dead), I bet ya'll would love his mom (and probably think he was a terrible son) but think my mom was a terrible mother. And yet, I'm pretty certain I had the better deal growing up.
I am consciously trying not to be critical of DD the way my mom was of me- and you know what, it's hard. OMG is it hard when she wears two clashing patterns, pink on the bottom and red on the top, and in an outfit my mother never would have let me leave the house in. But I've made the conscious decision that clothing choices, as long as it's appropriate for the weather and occasion (mini skirts need to have leggings underneath for school), are not the battles I want to have. Still, C can see me struggling and biting my tongue sometimes. But sometimes, my mother comes out of me, and I know it, and I'm not always happy about it. I will tell DD sometimes that I did not handle something as well as I could of, and will work on doing better sometimes.
We have an idea of what zib's mother was like. And we know she tried to be different from her mom, but that doesn't mean that her mom didn't sometimes come out. Beating her up over her past relationship with her daughter doesn't do anyone any good. It just allows us to feel like we're better parents, at least we didn't do "that", at her expense. In other words, it makes us mean girls.
No 5 year old calling another 5 year old fat will do anyone any good. All it does is make the one 5 year old somehow feel better about herself, because at least she's not "fat".
And we wonder where they get it from.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 18, 2013 17:16:01 GMT -5
I kind of think that we're becoming "mean girls" ourselves here. We don't actually know what Zib's relationship with her daughter is like. All we have are her comments, interpreted in the way we choose, and "heard" in the tone of voice we each choose to read them in, and our own assumptions.
My mom and I have an excellent relationship, and never in my life have I doubted her love for me or her support of me as a person. Self esteem issues have never been a problem for me. She's also incredibly critical, including (and especially) about my weight. And yet she never even mentioned to me that thyroid issues run in the family until I was well into adulthood, and she realized (after trying to find some snack food in our house) that I didn't eat junk all the time. (For the record, I do have a thyroid issue, but randomly enough, not one that has any bearing on my weight.) For the most part, I don't notice what she says, because that's the way she is. It drives C crazy, crazy enough, in fact, that I talked to her about it, and she does her best to be less critical because of it. C's mom wasn't critical at all, but was excellent at using guilt to get her way. The guilt trips drove me crazy- to the point that I once screamed at her for the way she was talking to him. C did not really notice it, because that was the way she always was. (And no, me screaming at her did not make her less likely to use guilt, though she did stop using the line "if you're the reason I lived, I made the wrong decision".)
If both of our mothers were on this board (mine's not, his is dead), I bet ya'll would love his mom (and probably think he was a terrible son) but think my mom was a terrible mother. And yet, I'm pretty certain I had the better deal growing up.
I am consciously trying not to be critical of DD the way my mom was of me- and you know what, it's hard. OMG is it hard when she wears two clashing patterns, pink on the bottom and red on the top, and in an outfit my mother never would have let me leave the house in. But I've made the conscious decision that clothing choices, as long as it's appropriate for the weather and occasion (mini skirts need to have leggings underneath for school), are not the battles I want to have. Still, C can see me struggling and biting my tongue sometimes. But sometimes, my mother comes out of me, and I know it, and I'm not always happy about it. I will tell DD sometimes that I did not handle something as well as I could of, and will work on doing better sometimes.
We have an idea of what zib's mother was like. And we know she tried to be different from her mom, but that doesn't mean that her mom didn't sometimes come out. Beating her up over her past relationship with her daughter doesn't do anyone any good. It just allows us to feel like we're better parents, at least we didn't do "that", at her expense. In other words, it makes us mean girls.
No 5 year old calling another 5 year old fat will do anyone any good. All it does is make the one 5 year old somehow feel better about herself, because at least she's not "fat".
And we wonder where they get it from. THATs not what makes me a mean girl :-p
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jul 18, 2013 17:30:24 GMT -5
You didn't question. You made a spectacularly ignorant assumption that somoene who is now a full grown adult (and can go to any doctor she wants), who has struggled with her weights since she was a kid, and who has been taken to doctors for her weight since she was a kid, has never been tested for low thyroid. This is despite the fact that weight gain is a textbook sign of low thyroid and therefore something that any competent doctor would look into. Seriously, why the hell would anybody go to the trouble of dragging a sullen teenager to a weight watchers meeting every week for a problem that could be cured with lab test and a pill? I think "spectacularly ignorant" is a little over the top, no? I've seen a doctor countless times, and had routine bloodwork done, but never had my thyroid tested. And I don't know how prevalent (or covered by insurance) those tests would have been 20+ years go. But for those who want to defend Zib's constant seething animosity towards her daughter for whatever reason, go right ahead. If my mother had ever thought to write on a message board about how she made me feel humiliated I would be devastated. that's okay. I only grew up with a mom who has the condition and saw what happened when she chose to not treat it, I couldn't possibly have any idea what I'm talking about.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 18, 2013 17:33:48 GMT -5
DD is back from cheering. All is well today. She's excited about the "show" tomorrow where they show the parents the routines they learned.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jul 18, 2013 17:34:45 GMT -5
yay, swamp!
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 18, 2013 17:37:57 GMT -5
She did complain that is was hot in there and it was a lot of work ,but that's par for the course.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Jul 18, 2013 18:20:52 GMT -5
Yay for Swamp's DD!
And honestly, I think this is the best lesson she's going to learn- don't give up doing what you want to do just because one person is mean to you. That will actually probably go a long way in helping her learn to ignore what other people say, or at least to not let it affect her choices
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2013 19:03:26 GMT -5
DD is back from cheering. All is well today. She's excited about the "show" tomorrow where they show the parents the routines they learned. Good news! Kids (especially at that age) are really resilient. But I'd still teach her to stand up to bullies. Never let the bullies win....never.
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goldensam
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Post by goldensam on Jul 18, 2013 19:08:30 GMT -5
Zib reminds me a lot of my mom, especially with the weight posts. In my mom's opinion, I was obese at size 4-6 in HS and she let me know it. I still remember her telling me once that if I looked in the mirror, I would never eat again. I am now almost 30 and I still have a completely unhealthy relationship with food. I will starve myself, then binge, then eat in secret, then exercise maniacally, then do it all again. My weight swings wildly in 40 lb ups and downs. (PCOS makes the weight cycles even more fun.)
If you ask my mom now, she was just trying to help, even if then I didn't really need help. I know now she was projecting a lot of her insecurities onto me. She's much better now and I think she would be horrified if I ever told her some of the things she said, but I do know her insecurities are still there. When I visit, I have to hear 100x how fat she is because her size 2 jeans are getting tight and she may have to buy a 4. I'm a size 12.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 18, 2013 21:09:58 GMT -5
Okay, for the THIRD time, I will mention that I did take her to both a doctor and a nutritionist. She was checked and her thyroid along with many other things n that can also cause weight gain were also checked. She complained that kids made fun of her. I'm sorry if you think that me telling her it was only going to get worse was wrong but I was right about that. Girls are mean. I was always short and skinny and was teased unmercifully as well as picked on. Fat girls are picked on, short girls are picked. On, tall girls are picked on, virgins are picked on, it just goes on. Yes, my mother was a super bitch and no good to boot. Yes, I'm sure I picked up a lot of it but don't ask me what to do if you don't want to hear my answer. Do something about being unhappy or shut up about it. She actually knows I'm in her corner and supportive of her but if I'm not, I will tell her so. Who do you think is paying for PA school, her supportive little elf? No, her mean mother.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 18, 2013 21:17:31 GMT -5
Okay, for the THIRD time, I will mention that I did take her to both a doctor and a nutritionist. She was checked and her thyroid along with many other things n that can also cause weight gain were also checked. She complained that kids made fun of her. I'm sorry if you think that me telling her it was only going to get worse was wrong but I was right about that. Girls are mean. I was always short and skinny and was teased unmercifully as well as picked on. Fat girls are picked on, short girls are picked. On, tall girls are picked on, virgins are picked on, it just goes on. Yes, my mother was a super bitch and no good to boot. Yes, I'm sure I picked up a lot of it but don't ask me what to do if you don't want to hear my answer. Do something about being unhappy or shut up about it. She actually knows I'm in her corner and supportive of her but if I'm not, I will tell her so. Who do you think is paying for PA school, her supportive little elf? No, her mean mother. Zib...I'm a straight shooter with adults....but my children need and deserve love and nurturing. I think helping her lose the weight was very important. I disagree with your methods.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 18, 2013 21:20:00 GMT -5
It's all I could think of at the time. She was sure sneaking food somewhere so I thought WW was a healthy way to lose it and they talked to people about weight and the issues surrounding it. I'm no expert so I did the best I could. Like most people, she wanted to eat whatever and be skinny. It didn't work that way for her.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 18, 2013 21:22:03 GMT -5
It's all I could think of at the time. She was sure sneaking food somewhere so I thought WW was a healthy way to lose it and they talked to people about weight and the issues surrounding it. I'm no expert so I did the best I could. Like most people, she wanted to eat whatever and be skinny. It didn't work that way for her. I don't see WW as bad...it is a very healthy diet. We all do the best we can and maybe you aren't as harsh in real life as you sound on-line. No one is perfect
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happyscooter
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Post by happyscooter on Jul 19, 2013 6:51:15 GMT -5
I'm with Zib. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. If she doesn't say anything and her DD grows up overweight, her DD will say 'why didn't you do something?' And if she does do something, it's 'leave me alone, it's my life'.
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happyscooter
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Post by happyscooter on Jul 19, 2013 6:57:38 GMT -5
But I still think that Swamp should have sent her DD back (which she did). If she registers her for any other class and the little girl is in there, I would ask the leader to have them in separate groups. Use any excuse. 'They were on the same cheer squad and I would like my daughter to meet some new people', 'they were on the same soccer team and I would like for them to play different positions to learn how other team mates react'. If that doesn't do the trick, then I would say 'Janie Sue seems to have a problem with my daughter Betty. I would like for Betty to have a positive experience here but she cannot do that with Janie Sue always saying negative things to her. Is it possible that they could be separated during the day; lunch, singing, playing, etc...I really like Betty being able to come here.'
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 19, 2013 7:12:51 GMT -5
Clashing patterns are very "in" right now.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2013 7:17:12 GMT -5
I like your suggestions, happyscooter! Swamp's problem is that she doesn't know who the girl is. DD said "a girl called me fat" and even her DD said she doesn't know which one out of the other 74 it was. But this one is good if DD ends up with someone bullying her
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 19, 2013 7:18:12 GMT -5
DD is back from cheering. All is well today. She's excited about the "show" tomorrow where they show the parents the routines they learned. Glad to read that! I was wondering how she'd done. Kids are pretty resilient if we give them the chance to be (and they give themselves the chance).
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 19, 2013 7:27:21 GMT -5
DD is back from cheering. All is well today. She's excited about the "show" tomorrow where they show the parents the routines they learned. And my son wore his Mickey Mouse shirt to school and nobody made fun of him, and now the shirt has taken back it's place in the rotation. Sometimes they don't really need to learn to deal with the bully - just need to learn how to test the limit. A bully is someone who does it often. But a one time comment - could be a misunderstanding, or a joke gone wrong, or someone having a bad day, or a future bully practicing. Wait until it becomes a problem to deal with it.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 19, 2013 15:03:09 GMT -5
The show was this afternoon. She did great. And I didn't ask her which kid said it to her, I don't want to keep bringing it up.
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Jaguar
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Post by Jaguar on Jul 19, 2013 15:08:04 GMT -5
The show was this afternoon. She did great. And I didn't ask her which kid said it to her, I don't want to keep bringing it up.
Oh that is excellent and I'm happy for her.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Jul 19, 2013 18:31:04 GMT -5
You didn't question. You made a spectacularly ignorant assumption that somoene who is now a full grown adult (and can go to any doctor she wants), who has struggled with her weights since she was a kid, and who has been taken to doctors for her weight since she was a kid, has never been tested for low thyroid. This is despite the fact that weight gain is a textbook sign of low thyroid and therefore something that any competent doctor would look into. Seriously, why the hell would anybody go to the trouble of dragging a sullen teenager to a weight watchers meeting every week for a problem that could be cured with lab test and a pill? I think "spectacularly ignorant" is a little over the top, no? I've seen a doctor countless times, and had routine bloodwork done, but never had my thyroid tested. And I don't know how prevalent (or covered by insurance) those tests would have been 20+ years go. But for those who want to defend Zib's constant seething animosity towards her daughter for whatever reason, go right ahead. If my mother had ever thought to write on a message board about how she made me feel humiliated I would be devastated. Not knowing that low thyroid is linked to weight gain doesn't make a person ignorant. Not everyone has nurses in the family. Sitting there and saying "This post is from Zib, so if she dismisses her daughter's low thyroid claims, her dismissal must be due to malice. Unless Zib proves otherwise, I'm going to assume that this girl has ever been tested for low thyroid, and Zib is dissing her to be mean. It doesn't matter that Zib's daughter is a full grown adult who is claiming to have thyroid issues, and is perfectly capable of having her thyroid tested and treated, but for some reason, is using a condition that is perfectly within her power to correct as an excuse for being fat. Zib's dismissal must be due to Zib being a meanie." That is the spectacularly ignorant part.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jul 19, 2013 20:22:53 GMT -5
So you are getting like one if the mods.... Because something is like that in your area it is universally true? I'm so sorry you're having a bad day. Something really awful must have happened to make you want to be so hateful to someone who spends his free time trying to keep some semblance of order in a place that you get to enjoy for free. I hope things get better for you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2013 21:17:39 GMT -5
LOL
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 19, 2013 21:42:13 GMT -5
For the Fourth time, her thyroid was tested. I also spent money on a nutritionist. She isn't fat anymore But she still claims that she must have had an untreated thyroid issue when she was younger. I don't bother telling her she was tested because there's no point in dredging it up.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 19, 2013 21:43:46 GMT -5
The show was this afternoon. She did great. And I didn't ask her which kid said it to her, I don't want to keep bringing it up. Yay! Good for her! If she did well and had a good time, whoever said it, it's behind her! KUDOS!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2013 21:47:42 GMT -5
Zib. I don't care if she was tested for thyroid. The idea that thyroid problems are 'that old excuse' reads like you think people blame their thyroid when they are just lazy gluttons, but even that isn't my issue.
My issue is the unconcealed animosity with which you regularly refer to your daughter, and in all honesty the generalized contempt towards women and girls you demonstrate consistently with comments like the one about what is the use of those kind of girls practicing mounts when they will never be real cheerleaders anyway...
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 19, 2013 21:49:11 GMT -5
Oh, Christ, go get a drink.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 19, 2013 21:55:37 GMT -5
Y'know, so much of this has to do with pure genetics. Yes, there are a few medical conditions, some of which cause weight gain and some of which contribute to it. There are also psychological factors that contribute. Still, a good deal of it is genetic in origin.
Look at your family background on both sides. The clues are there. In my father's family, the males are very thin. The females seemed to tend toward apple shapes, but my generation of females all are quite slender. Pictures of his grandparents show two rail-thin people with a gaggle of skinny kids. My mother's family is mixed, with females tending toward broad hips (pear-shaped). My brother and I both take from my father's side and are tall, thin, small-framed people. I still weigh just about what I weighed when I got out of high school and have only once gained what I felt was too much weight. Two weeks of controlled intake put me back where I needed to be. My children's father was also slender with a small frame. My son is built like his father and I. My daughter has a large frame and tends to gain weight. She's battled it since puberty. Looking back on her father's family background, I found a picture of her father's grandmother on his father's side. My daughter looks, and is built, very much like that woman.
While in this case genetics don't doom us, they do give us some hints as to what problems might develop. That way, we can be aware and gear our lives accordingly. Most weight gain is the result of simply eating too much food. If there are no physical conditions contributing, that's almost always where the problem is. It's something one can control, but one must want to control it and be willing to put the work into it to control it. Some will. Some won't. No amount of badgering, in my experience, is going to turn a "won't" into a "will". MOO
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 19, 2013 22:11:33 GMT -5
So you are getting like one if the mods.... Because something is like that in your area it is universally true? I'm so sorry you're having a bad day. Something really awful must have happened to make you want to be so hateful to someone who spends his free time trying to keep some semblance of order in a place that you get to enjoy for free. I hope things get better for you. Lol...why do you think I was talking about you?
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