KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on Jun 26, 2013 20:57:37 GMT -5
This statement tells me just about everything I would ever need to know. It is one thing to think that, or even to share that with your spouse. I can't fathom how or why the SIL thought it was appropriate to say that the OP about her own mother. It is rude, and puts the OP in a rather awkward position. If my SIL said something like that about my mother it would make me very uncomfortable. I've been busy, so sorry I've been absent from my own thread! I've got time tonight, so I'm going to try and catch up. I know what reason SIL gave me for this comment - I witnessed what she referred to, but she had to remind me about it later when she made this comment. When I witnessed my mom's actions, I seriously had no reservations or concerns that SIL says is too much for her to allow her child to be around Grandma for any extended length of time. At a family pool party last year (again hosted at my mom's house), we had a huge group there - not the entire family, but probably at least 35 or 40 people. One family, my cousin and his wife and 5 kids (3 of which are toddlers), almost never get together with the whole family. The kids (toddlers) are not used to be around such a large group - basically strangers to them, even if they know some of the people there. SIL witnessed my mom walking up to one of the children and attempting to talk to the kid in that type of sing-songy voice that adults will do with kids they don't know very well themselves and the kid backed away and started crying. I saw the same interaction and thought nothing of it (I'll fully admit, probably because I already have kids and I've seen kids do this before with other people). However, because of this action - my mom now scares little kids and SIL doesn't want her child exposed to that kind of stress. I told SIL that ALL kids react that way with people they don't know and my mom is basically a stranger to the cousin's son. That she shouldn't judge what type of Grandma she is based on someone else's kid that she has no interaction with. SIL was not convinced of my explanation and still stated she wants my mom to have limited, supervised, interactions with her child.
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on Jun 26, 2013 21:18:40 GMT -5
My husband got in a no-win situation with his best friend. His best friend was dating a shrew. And the best friend just complained and complained about her. My husband kept his trap shut. The best friend and girl broke up, and my husband got the sad phone call. So, my husband said "Good riddance" and then repeated back the complaints that his friend had during the relationship, and added in that he agreed that he could do better. 4 months later, they got back together and got engaged. He and his friend have never fully repaired the relationship. I understand this issue too. I've actually been in a similar situation before (again with my DB). I've said this before - it's hard to relate the whole story on a message board - but there is a pattern with my DB and who he picks to be with. When he was in high school, I made the mistake of telling him that the girl he was dating was going to break his heart if he wasn't careful. I told him this without him asking me. He quit talking to me for around 6 months. He broke the silence the day he walked into my apartment, sat on the couch, and told me, "You were right." I shrugged, said, "ok" and we went back to life as normal. No drama, no saying "I told you so", no nothing. Later, after he was an adult, in the Army, stationed half a country away - he called to tell us (me, mom and dad) that he was in love, they were engaged and start planning the wedding. The more details that came out, the more worried we became. They knew each other for a couple of months, had met only twice, she lived in one state in the Mideast, while he was stationed in the Northwest. The wedding was planned for a total of 6 months after they had met and over the whole course of the relationship, they had only physically met 5 times - all of their planning and talking was done over the phone. She came to visit our family once, for a long weekend. DB asked me how I liked her. I told her I liked her just fine for someone that I had only met once. He asked me what I thought of her - I asked him if he wanted my true opinion or not. He insisted on hearing my opinion. I told him that based on what little I knew - there were a TON of red flags that the relationship would have a hard time surviving (10 year age gap, long distance relationship, being deployed to another country immediately after the wedding, and several other things that I can't remember off hand). He admitted to the challenges, but insisted that they could survive them. She broke the wedding off two weeks before the date. At what was supposed to be the "reception" that was paired with our family's Christmas get-together, lots of our family walked up to DB and told him that they thought the marriage was a bad idea and they were glad it was called off. DB walked up to me later in the day and said, "Thank you. You were the only one who had the guts to tell me what you really thought about me marrying her. I was the one that refused to see the truth that it was a bad idea. I appreciate you not rubbing my face in it like the others are doing after the fact." I shrugged, said, "ok" and we went back to life as normal. No drama, no saying "I told you so", no nothing from me. So - I've told my DB my thoughts about his relationship with his wife before they ever got married. I haven't said anything since. I vent here because the relationships with both DB and SIL are not worth making a mess of because I'm frustrated. I do have to live with the fall out if I do something wrong to offend either DB, SIL or my mom/dad.
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on Jun 26, 2013 21:53:20 GMT -5
Kara, you can be my adopted SIL Lena - I would be proud to have you for a SIL! I've always been impressed with your comments.
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on Jun 26, 2013 22:02:26 GMT -5
This thread has given me great anxiety. I expect that when my kids are older, I will chew off my arm to continue a relationship with them. But, if my daughter doesn't like my son's wife, this could be a real messy litter box. I'm sorry Thyme! That was not my intent at all. I wouldn't go so far as to say I don't "like" her - but she definitely frustrates me. She's actually really fun to be around when she's drinking/almost drunk - but that's not really fair for any of us either (several family members have commented on this - out loud, to her). I just don't want to only be around her when she's drinking though. That's not any fun either.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jun 26, 2013 23:15:17 GMT -5
Kara, you can be my adopted SIL Lena - I would be proud to have you for a SIL! I've always been impressed with your comments. Awww, thank you
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Jun 26, 2013 23:59:40 GMT -5
So you've been right about every relationship so far but he still doesn't listen to you? Does he still touch a hot stove?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 27, 2013 8:17:35 GMT -5
This thread has given me great anxiety. I expect that when my kids are older, I will chew off my arm to continue a relationship with them. But, if my daughter doesn't like my son's wife, this could be a real messy litter box. I'm sorry Thyme! That was not my intent at all. I wouldn't go so far as to say I don't "like" her - but she definitely frustrates me. She's actually really fun to be around when she's drinking/almost drunk - but that's not really fair for any of us either (several family members have commented on this - out loud, to her). I just don't want to only be around her when she's drinking though. That's not any fun either. Maybe as she grows up and is in the family for longer, the relaxed state that alcohol brings will happen without massive amounts of alcohol.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Jun 27, 2013 9:22:19 GMT -5
So you've been right about every relationship so far but he still doesn't listen to you? Does he still touch a hot stove? I could go around telling everyone in a new relationship that it will fail and their heart will break. I would be right 90% of the time. Doesn't make me a good person for saying so. It's just how it goes, you will have more failed relationships than successful ones.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Jun 27, 2013 11:04:26 GMT -5
The more I hear about this woman, the more I tend to think that Karaboo is dealing with a 16 year old in a 32 year old woman's body. An awful lot of growing up happens on the job, and since this woman has never had a real job, she missed out on that. A lot of the things we are ascribing to entitledness (oversharing about family, trying to do the big baby shower, cutting out the MIL because she scared a few toddlers) could also be explained by a general lack of understanding of human nature. If that's the case, time, setting boundaries and a little gentle mentoring can fix this.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jun 28, 2013 12:52:39 GMT -5
When a friend went through basic training, he told me that one of the "classes" is to try and teach the cadets to be very VERY careful of women who will try to marry them to get their benefits. Then again, men tend to believe whoever they are knocking boots with.
FWIW, the two broken hearts definitely emphasizes to me why he is willing to put up with what he does.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Jun 28, 2013 12:57:23 GMT -5
So you've been right about every relationship so far but he still doesn't listen to you? Does he still touch a hot stove? I could go around telling everyone in a new relationship that it will fail and their heart will break. I would be right 90% of the time. Doesn't make me a good person for saying so. It's just how it goes, you will have more failed relationships than successful ones. Yes, you could do that and that would be very rude. But that has nothing to do with Kara's sibling who, at times, has asked her opinion. I wasn't implying that she go around telling people in her life to make comments on their relationships but that would be pretty funny. Kara - Will you go around telling people about their sucky relationships and then get back to us? That would make an awesome thread!
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 28, 2013 13:08:25 GMT -5
I think gooddecisions point was that she might not be a great teller of the future, but the odds were just working with her.
1) She called a broken heart in a HIGH SCHOOL relationship. What are the odds? I mean, that rarely happens. It is amazing she was right! Seriously. She should evaluate all relationships if she called that one!
2) She called a demise in a fast moving relationship where the people only met a couple of times. She really went out on a limb for that one. How could ANYONE guess that? I mean, most fast moving relationships that proceed to marriage after being in the same physical location 5 times are destined for success.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jun 30, 2013 13:38:45 GMT -5
IMO, it depends a lot on what % those 2 relationships represent of KB's DB's total number of relationships. If those two are 66.65% (the other 33.35% being the current one) then it says a lot more than if those two were cherry picked. As someone who did not have a lot of luck with relationships (and it wasn't for lack of trying, thats for sure), I get why he would be much more motivated to "make it work" than someone who always had another person lined up.
Regardless, a kid is on the way, and they are now joined forever. The SIL also seems to already believe she has "done enough" and is "going to be more selfish".
Fun times lie ahead!
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on Jun 30, 2013 15:02:03 GMT -5
The more I hear about this woman, the more I tend to think that Karaboo is dealing with a 16 year old in a 32 year old woman's body. An awful lot of growing up happens on the job, and since this woman has never had a real job, she missed out on that. A lot of the things we are ascribing to entitledness (oversharing about family, trying to do the big baby shower, cutting out the MIL because she scared a few toddlers) could also be explained by a general lack of understanding of human nature. If that's the case, time, setting boundaries and a little gentle mentoring can fix this. I have been thinking a lot about this statement - thank you for making it! From what I have witnessed from my SIL, this sounds so much like the truth - throw in the fact that she's also an only child and I think the reality is she truly is clueless. Does that make me a horrible SIL? I don't think so, but I'm open to the possibility - I've never been a SIL before myself. Just an example of an incident that brings this to the forefront of my mind: One day, at the beginning of this year, a friend of mine was over at my house and SIL asked if she could also come over (because this friend is invited to a lot of family things, SIL has gotten to know her as well). We were just hanging out, the three of us. SIL's b-day is October 31 - Halloween - and has told all of us that is her favorite holiday. Our friend also loves Halloween and has always hosted a party at her house the Saturday before Halloween (I don't know how long she's been doing the party, but I've known her for 7 years and she's always had it that I know of). SIL has been to the party twice (if I'm remembering correctly - she's only been with DB around 3 years at this point). Friend has asked me to help her make her Halloween costume for this year, so that's what we were working on. SIL comments, "Hey, since my birthday is on Halloween, instead of doing your party one year, we should all go out and party for my birthday. We could go to the Rocky Horror Picture Show, haunted houses and......(she said some other things that I can't remember right now...basically party all night)". Friend responded, "You have fun with that. We'll miss you, but I'm not going to cancel my party." SIL has been pissed at her ever since for making that comment. She's made comments to me that friend is trying to run things in the family and she doesn't think that is right. I get the distinct impression that SIL wants me to cut ties with the friend and side with her. It's really put me in a bad position (it is similar to her wanting the woman's group to have dinner closer to our houses rather than us having to drive a greater distance - I'm not taking sides on this one - if SIL wants to party, put it out there and those who go, go, those who don't, don't.) So - I really believe you are right that it is an immaturity thing. Will it get better with time? I have no idea.
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on Jun 30, 2013 15:11:23 GMT -5
I think half the people in my family like my husband better than me. I told him that if we got divorced, I call dips on my blood relatives. He said that everyone was old enough to make their own decisions. Funny story - something very much like this happened in our (very) extended family. A cousin of a cousin had been married for 35 years when he decided that he didn't need to be married to his wife any more. My direct cousin (his cousin) started inviting her (the now divorced wife) to the get-togethers she hosted. She's a great lady and we joke all of the time that we (my family) "kept her in the divorce". Her ex-husband still attends their family get-togethers and they've gotten to the point that it doesn't bother them as much any more to see the other at the family functions (they have kids and grandkids together). Sorry! My family tends to get very convoluted without having names in the mix!
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on Jun 30, 2013 15:23:45 GMT -5
IMO, it depends a lot on what % those 2 relationships represent of KB's DB's total number of relationships. If those two are 66.65% (the other 33.35% being the current one) then it says a lot more than if those two were cherry picked. As someone who did not have a lot of luck with relationships (and it wasn't for lack of trying, thats for sure), I get why he would be much more motivated to "make it work" than someone who always had another person lined up. Regardless, a kid is on the way, and they are now joined forever. The SIL also seems to already believe she has "done enough" and is "going to be more selfish". Fun times lie ahead! As far as serious relationship that my DB has had (that we know of) - this percentage is correct. He's only had 3 serious relationships that I know of (of course, he's also been out of the state/country with the Army for 8 years, so it could be we just missed a couple that we didn't know about). Part of the reason I was so blunt with my opinions of his "red flags" that he was talking about in his relationship with SIL was the fact that DB also made the following statements to me: - I'm behind the curve in life based on others my age. I'm almost 30 and have no wife, no kid(s) and no house.
- I don't want to grow old and be alone.
- I feel like I'm missing out on what life is supposed to be about.
I attempted to tell him that being with someone, just to be with someone, can lead to more trouble that it's worth. I reminded him of my own failed marriage that I used to get out on my own (without someone explaining to me - hey! It's possible to be on your own without being married!). I pointed out to him that I was a single parent because of the failed marriage and that's not fair to the kid if you can help it. He was unconvinced of my rational. That's fine, DB - you wanted my opinion - you got it. I'll keep my mouth shut otherwise. The relationship examples were in response to the comments that I was butting in to something that wasn't any of my business.
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on Jun 30, 2013 16:19:11 GMT -5
One last thing (for now) because I've been thinking about this all night as well.
Yesterday was my parent's 4th of July pool party. Lots of people there (I'd guess over 20), but by no means the whole family. My cousin was talking to me and our friend (the one from above - who's basically like family and was also invited with her son) about getting together, just the 5 of us girls that were around when she was going through her divorce 2 years ago.
Cousin stated that was one of the best summers (despite being in the middle of a divorce) she's had in her life and she'd like to bring us all together again just for a weekend. SIL was just beginning to date DB at that point and hadn't attended may family get-togethers, so cousin isn't planning on inviting her to this event.
Not my party, not my problem, however, I was part of the 5 and I know SIL has the impression that she's being excluded on purpose from things. If she's not invited to this, it's just going to reinforce her belief, regardless of the circumstances.
I did not say anything to cousin about SIL when she was talking about it - but I was definitely thinking about this issue. I have fun hanging out with my cousin and this group of girls, so I want to attend if my own personal schedule (kids and work) allow it.
So - how would you handle a situation like this? How would you suggest I handle this?
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 30, 2013 17:16:12 GMT -5
I'd keep my mouth shut all around, assuming this group of girls isn't ALL the girls around this age in your family minus the SIL. If SIL is the only one left out, I might say something to the one planning it...that you know she's not purposefully excluding SIL but SIL has been feeling left out as a whole lately and to consider inviting her. Depending on when the get together is SIL might not be able to attend anyways because of the pregnancy.
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on Jun 30, 2013 18:22:57 GMT -5
Okay - I'm not sure how to explain it best so here goes:
SIL - age 32 (maybe 33 now....I can't remember exactly)
5 friends my cousin is referring to: Me - age 38 Cousin - Age 43 (?) Friend (from above) - age 39 Divorced Cousin (from above) - age 55ish, maybe closer to 60 (?) Neighbor - age 30ish (?)
We have a diverse group age wise and other than lack of common experiences and attitude, SIL wouldn't be out of place. As far as family/cousins or their wives, there are 13 couples total, 9 in the area, and only 2 of us listed above. She's not the only girl in the family being left out, but she does give off the impression that she is.
All of us in the group of 5 have gone through some very tough times - the most common is all of us have been a single mom at some point in our lives. Except for the Friend, we've all been through a divorce or separation. We've all dealt with being the only income in the house and being responsible for the well-being of our child(ren).
When we were talking yesterday, it sounded like the only weekend available was the weekend after next (July 13) was what was open (based on our calendars of the 3 out of 5). So, if it happens, it'll be pretty quick.
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doxieluvr
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Post by doxieluvr on Jun 30, 2013 19:24:09 GMT -5
I bet if she moved the date, the same number of people would show up. That is what happened with my shower. Everyone was too busy, and my MOH was so afraid no one would come and she shifted it around and around, and no matter what time she picked, the same number of people were locked into something else that they absolutely couldn't change - you know, like going to the movies with their mother - gee, can't you do that any time? After my wedding I stopped hanging out with a lot of my friends because I really questioned if they were my friends at all. Was I being too dramatic? Maybe. But, I only had one bridal shower in my life. I bet they can't even remember what was so important that they absolutely could not come. For the record, I only had one baby shower, too. Even though I had two babies that each came with their own pregnancy. I was so sick of everyone having such an attitude and being so put out by having to come to a party and how terrible it was for them that their friend was having a life event, and how playing a fucking party game was the end of their life and they would drop their present in the middle of floor and run out of there as quickly as possible, just so they can get drunk instead. Fine. You don't want to be part of my life. Fine. I don't remember the attitude when it was your wedding and your baby. I understand your feelings. I never had a bridal shower or baby shower. I had to buy everything myself for both kids. Sure it would have been nice, but no one cared enough to make my day special. Sorry that your friends disappointed you.
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whoami
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Post by whoami on Jun 30, 2013 19:38:39 GMT -5
Okay - I'm not sure how to explain it best so here goes: SIL - age 32 (maybe 33 now....I can't remember exactly) 5 friends my cousin is referring to: Me - age 38 Cousin - Age 43 (?) Friend (from above) - age 39 Divorced Cousin (from above) - age 55ish, maybe closer to 60 (?) Neighbor - age 30ish (?) We have a diverse group age wise and other than lack of common experiences and attitude, SIL wouldn't be out of place. As far as family/cousins or their wives, there are 13 couples total, 9 in the area, and only 2 of us listed above. She's not the only girl in the family being left out, but she does give off the impression that she is. All of us in the group of 5 have gone through some very tough times - the most common is all of us have been a single mom at some point in our lives. Except for the Friend, we've all been through a divorce or separation. We've all dealt with being the only income in the house and being responsible for the well-being of our child(ren). When we were talking yesterday, it sounded like the only weekend available was the weekend after next (July 13) was what was open (based on our calendars of the 3 out of 5). So, if it happens, it'll be pretty quick. There is a group of girls I used to work with who I have lunch with about once a month. There are probably 12 of us total and who shows up varies from month to month. I wait to see who is going to show up before I commit either way. While I'm cordial with all of them, there are a few that I really have no interest in having lunch with on a one to one basis, but I'm fine with going if they are in the group. There are times when I have lunch with one or two of them outside our monthly "meeting". No one feels slighted or gets pissed off if they weren't invited. I know the friend I mainly associate with from the group has lunch with one or more of the others on occasion and I'm not invited. I don't care. Your SIL is a immature high school drama queen. She wants to be queen bee when everyone else has gotten way past that stage of life. If she is going to ruin your fun or nobody else wants her there, then don't invite her. Maybe once she has the kid, she will get a grip but I doubt it. I dont go out of my way to include people in my plans who behave like spoiled PITAs.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 30, 2013 19:45:20 GMT -5
With 7 of the 9 going I wouldn't worry about it and if SIL asked say that it's not a family thing since more family isn't going than what is going. Though that probably won't placate her, but I'm not sure much would.
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susanb
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Post by susanb on Jun 30, 2013 20:10:08 GMT -5
Not my party, not my problem, however, I was part of the 5 and I know SIL has the impression that she's being excluded on purpose from things. If she's not invited to this, it's just going to reinforce her belief, regardless of the circumstances. So - how would you handle a situation like this? How would you suggest I handle this? If you value your relationship with your brother, I would try to make her feel included, valued and respected. You don't need to invite her to this event, but you probably should try to include her in some others. You should also find some reasons to like her/some good things about her and focus on those. You may have to dig deep, but I doubt she is completely lacking in good qualities. I get it. I really do. My SIL is a piece of work who has taken financial advantage of my husband's 90 year old grandfather. She has also yelled and sworn at me and made some pretty harsh (and false) accusations about me. Relationship building has been a tough road to hoe with her, but in the end, she is my husband's sister. I need to do what I can to make it work with her simply because the alternatives - family division or divorce - are even more unthinkable than doing what I can to make it work. So, focus on what you can do to build a relationship with her. How can you make her feel important? She may not be important in the world at large, but she is going to be the mother of your brother's child, so she is important in your family. How can you make her feel included? In the end, most of us just want to feel those things. It sounds like you have a large network of friends and family who value and love you. She probably just wants the same thing. Maybe she doesn't have the skills to generate that kind of response on her own, but she is your brother's wife and the mother of his future child, so help her build that bridge if you can.
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tcu2003
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Post by tcu2003 on Jun 30, 2013 20:11:28 GMT -5
I probably wouldn't say anything to SIL or the one who suggested the get-together. If SIL finds out, just tell her that you were getting together to celebrate and reminisce how far each of you has come since your single mom days or something like that - it is partly true, and hopefully will make SIL think that no one was excluding her since that hasn't been a part of her life.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jul 1, 2013 14:39:54 GMT -5
I probably wouldn't say anything to SIL or the one who suggested the get-together. If SIL finds out, just tell her that you were getting together to celebrate and reminisce how far each of you has come since your single mom days or something like that - it is partly true, and hopefully will make SIL think that no one was excluding her since that hasn't been a part of her life. Or she could hear it like some of my in laws do: We don't like you and didn't want you there. And we did nothing but talk about you during it either. I hope she's just immature and that she'll grow into a better person/SIL given enough time and kindness but the in laws I'm talking about are DH's uncles, so they've had time.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 1, 2013 14:53:45 GMT -5
Just schedule it for the week the baby is due.
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seriousthistime
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Post by seriousthistime on Jul 4, 2013 12:51:21 GMT -5
About wedding and baby showers:
I'm divorced, not in a relationship, not even casually dating at the moment. There are relatively few "events" I can go to that are not mostly couples. And now showers are becoming "couples" events.
At this point, most weddings and showers are for the younger generation -- my kids and my friends' kids. I LIKE showers that are just for the women. I have a friend who insists on throwing showers for her own kids, wedding showers and baby showers, and making them co-ed. The first time I had a conflict so of course sent a gift. The second time I could have had a conflict (broken foot) but a mutual friend helped me with transportation and so on. The third time was my friend's first grandchild's baby shower. With a three-hour trip each way, the shower took up a whole day.
I have gone to these things because I realize the event is not about me, and it's not up to me what the format will be or who will be invited. But I'm coming to a point where I figure I'm enough removed from the guest of honor that sending a gift is just fine.
Thyme, in my group of friends, baby showers are held for the first baby, because a lot of the gifts are amortized over multiple babies: car seats, strollers, blankets, crib sheets, etc. No shower for subsequent babies, but we give baby gifts when the babies are born, and they are usually clothes for the new baby. I've never heard of having baby showers for 2nd, 3rd, etc. babies. I wouldn't be hurt about not having a baby shower for your second child, unless it is common among your group of friends to do so.
Doxie, about not having any showers at all, if you have a group of close women friends and they didn't think to throw you a shower for your first marriage or your first baby, shame on them. If you have mostly male friends and few women friends, it's understandable because men generally won't throw you a shower. Don't expect a shower for second marriages or subsequent babies unless it is common for your friends to do that.
KaraBoo, once SIL has the baby hopefully she will realize that life is not just all about her. If she fails to get this, you might have to wait for a good time when she's not invited to do something and starts to throw a fit and look her in the eye and say "In this family, not everyone gets invited to everything. It's not meant as an insult, and if you choose to take it that way, that's on you."
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