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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2013 13:43:16 GMT -5
Put me firmly in the "I don't care" camp. Use whatever bathroom you feel you should. What I find most interesting about this thread is that I (and I'm sure most of us) could have predicted the responses from almost every poster. LOL, am I predictably wishy washy?
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Jun 25, 2013 13:59:29 GMT -5
Also, I need to point out "transgender" is an adjective, not a noun. So saying "a transgender" is like saying "a purple". "Transwoman" and "transman" (transfemale, transmale, etc.) can be used as nouns, but "transgender" should be paired with a noun such as "person," "man," "male," "woman," etc.
Also it sounds ignorant.
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michelyn8
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Post by michelyn8 on Jun 25, 2013 14:23:01 GMT -5
There has been no change in his outward appearance in at least 3 years (possibly longer), even though he has always talked openly of his intentions to go through the process(es?) to become female.
I haven't read all 7 pages to see if this has been addressed but this is what jumped out at me. And it not so much his intentions but the length of time he's been talking about it. From what I understand (keep in mind that I have never met someone who claimed to be transgendered or was open about having already gone through the process), even those people who are not prepared (financially or cleared by their doctors re: their mental/physical health) to go through the surgeries required to fully transition, will start off by transitioning their outward appearance and usually begin some type of hormone therapy.
For a man to go three years without taking any of those steps would have me questioning his true intentions. Just having long hair doesn't make you a female. Does he wear makeup, dress as a female, etc? To me, those as well as being under the care of a physcian who can document his intentions would have some weight in whether I'd allow him to continue into the ladies room or not. And I have a feeling that if he was truly sincere in his intentions, there would be few if any complaints.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2013 14:35:41 GMT -5
If an adults wants to use the bathroom of the gender they identify with then I don't care. Being transgendered is hard enough, especially if you don't completely look like the gender that you feel you are. I don't feel any need to add to that burden.
With younger kids I'd be worried about bullying.
BIL is transgendered. The process has been taking years and while there were noticeable changes in the beginning he's looked the same for a long time now. He is doing other things to continue the transition but they are not things you can just see in a casual environment and he doesn't advertise it. I wouldn't assume that just because you can't see things happening that the person is insincere. There are lots of reasons why someone may not be eligible for certain options or choose not to take them. The process is so much more complex than I imagined.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Jun 25, 2013 19:21:12 GMT -5
Actually, Rukh you were one of the few surprises...
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jun 26, 2013 1:58:33 GMT -5
Put me firmly in the "I don't care" camp. Use whatever bathroom you feel you should. What I find most interesting about this thread is that I (and I'm sure most of us) could have predicted the responses from almost every poster. Ok. I haven't added my predictable response to this thread so I will do so now. And as always I will use a hypothetical situation. What if in the same office this transgender person works, there is also a female (let's call her Mary) and Mary was gang raped a year or so ago. Don't you think Mary would see the feet pointing the wrong way showing her there is a male in the bathroom? Don't you think that see would be scared to death just to do her "business" with a male in the next stall? Where is she supposed to go? Whose rights are more important here? How can we even choose? Mary's fear is real and she might just be hanging on by a thread. Do we really want to tell her to get over it? The Mary in this situation might be hypothetical, but there are many "real" Marys around us, and just because I have been lucky in life, I for one am not willing to forget about them. So a unisex bathroom may really be the only solution that is acceptable. Neither the transgender person nor the rape victim are in their situation voluntarily, but that does not mean that the discomfort of one is more important than the terror of the other.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Jun 26, 2013 2:11:19 GMT -5
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Jaguar
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Post by Jaguar on Jun 26, 2013 2:29:14 GMT -5
Well POM I would run too if I ran into a big red x like that.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Jun 26, 2013 2:54:42 GMT -5
LOL! It was there when I posted it. I guess she scared herself and ran into the men's room too!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2013 3:25:15 GMT -5
Unisex bathrooms aren't that uncommon outside this country. It really wouldn't bother me. I've got an individual stall with a door. That's as private as I can expect to be in a public restroom. Most of the bathrooms here in Italy are Unisex. I don't have a problem with it. As far as using the same bathroom as a transgender person, I also would not have a problem with that. I used to do it all the time when I worked at the mall in Hawaii. It never bothered me a bit.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Jun 26, 2013 8:45:59 GMT -5
BTW, as for the feet pointing the wrong way, a woman told me once that she often wonders if women in public restrooms think she is a man - because she stands facing the toilet to empty her colostomy bag.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jun 26, 2013 8:59:05 GMT -5
Put me firmly in the "I don't care" camp. Use whatever bathroom you feel you should. What I find most interesting about this thread is that I (and I'm sure most of us) could have predicted the responses from almost every poster. Ok. I haven't added my predictable response to this thread so I will do so now. And as always I will use a hypothetical situation. What if in the same office this transgender person works, there is also a female (let's call her Mary) and Mary was gang raped a year or so ago. Don't you think Mary would see the feet pointing the wrong way showing her there is a male in the bathroom? Don't you think that see would be scared to death just to do her "business" with a male in the next stall? Where is she supposed to go? Whose rights are more important here? How can we even choose? Mary's fear is real and she might just be hanging on by a thread. Do we really want to tell her to get over it? The Mary in this situation might be hypothetical, but there are many "real" Marys around us, and just because I have been lucky in life, I for one am not willing to forget about them. So a unisex bathroom may really be the only solution that is acceptable. Neither the transgender person nor the rape victim are in their situation voluntarily, but that does not mean that the discomfort of one is more important than the terror of the other. I have to assume any man who is transitioning from male to female, and is using the women's room, is going to sit down to do her business. It's just not ladylike to stand and pee.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 26, 2013 9:01:47 GMT -5
I just saw someone's feet pointing sideways. What does that mean?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2013 9:08:40 GMT -5
Ballet dancer?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jun 26, 2013 9:20:00 GMT -5
I just saw someone's feet pointing sideways. What does that mean? They pee sidesaddle?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 26, 2013 9:22:23 GMT -5
I'll have to grope that person next time she comes out of the restroom. Want to make sure she's using the correct bathroom after all. Do you think she'll be okay with that?
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jun 26, 2013 9:52:28 GMT -5
Also, I need to point out "transgender" is an adjective, not a noun. So saying "a transgender" is like saying "a purple". "Transwoman" and "transman" (transfemale, transmale, etc.) can be used as nouns, but "transgender" should be paired with a noun such as "person," "man," "male," "woman," etc. Also it sounds ignorant. Actually, this is incorrect. It is both an adjective and a noun, similar to the way "male" is both an adjective and a noun. trans·gen·der/trænsˈdʒɛndər, trænz‐/ Show Spelled [trans-jen-der, tranz‐] Show IPA noun 1. a person appearing or attempting to be a member of the opposite sex, as a transsexual or habitual cross-dresser. adjective Also, trans·gen·dered. 2. being, pertaining to, or characteristic of a transgender or transgenders: the transgender movement.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2013 13:46:23 GMT -5
if everyone can just use whatever restroom they feel like it, then what's the point of having segregated restrooms? Might as well just make them all unisex. And unisex locker rooms.
And I'm 100% for equal rights/opportunities for all, but IMO there has to be some type of standard or limit to the whole "everyone should be able to do anything they want regardless of how it makes you feel" attitude.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jun 26, 2013 15:23:15 GMT -5
if everyone can just use whatever restroom they feel like it, then what's the point of having segregated restrooms? Might as well just make them all unisex. And unisex locker rooms. And I'm 100% for equal rights/opportunities for all, but IMO there has to be some type of standard or limit to the whole "everyone should be able to do anything they want regardless of how it makes you feel" attitude. As an adult I probably would just suck it up and not say anything even if I didn't feel comfortable. But as a parent I really don't want to have to talk with my six year old daughter as to why Suzie has a penis instead of privates that look like hers. And i don't care what they do in France. I don't live in France so I don't understand why that should matter in regards to bathrooms here. I guess that makes me a horrible person.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2013 15:27:39 GMT -5
I guess I'm a horrible person too. But you all already knew that!
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Jun 26, 2013 15:39:08 GMT -5
if everyone can just use whatever restroom they feel like it, then what's the point of having segregated restrooms? Might as well just make them all unisex. And unisex locker rooms. And I'm 100% for equal rights/opportunities for all, but IMO there has to be some type of standard or limit to the whole "everyone should be able to do anything they want regardless of how it makes you feel" attitude. There ARE medical standards that must be met to get hormones or surgery. It's been a medical condition for about 4 decades, but I'm sure that is just a bunch of liberal hippy feel good crap. Eta- I am responding to the implication that all trans people are just making it up, because its a really hip thing to do that gets you lots of perks in life. That and snap to buy crab legs and you're living the high life.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2013 17:18:01 GMT -5
if everyone can just use whatever restroom they feel like it, then what's the point of having segregated restrooms? Might as well just make them all unisex. And unisex locker rooms. And I'm 100% for equal rights/opportunities for all, but IMO there has to be some type of standard or limit to the whole "everyone should be able to do anything they want regardless of how it makes you feel" attitude. There ARE medical standards that must be met to get hormones or surgery. It's been a medical condition for about 4 decades, but I'm sure that is just a bunch of liberal hippy feel good crap. Eta- I am responding to the implication that all trans people are just making it up, because its a really hip thing to do that gets you lots of perks in life. That and snap to buy crab legs and you're living the high life. You are COMPLETELY missing the point. What is to stop a heterosexual male (who identifies as male) from saying that he identifies as female in order to use the ladies' room? Because according to everyone, you apparently can't question anyone further if they say that.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Jun 26, 2013 18:38:41 GMT -5
There ARE medical standards that must be met to get hormones or surgery. It's been a medical condition for about 4 decades, but I'm sure that is just a bunch of liberal hippy feel good crap. Eta- I am responding to the implication that all trans people are just making it up, because its a really hip thing to do that gets you lots of perks in life. That and snap to buy crab legs and you're living the high life. You are COMPLETELY missing the point. What is to stop a heterosexual male (who identifies as male) from saying that he identifies as female in order to use the ladies' room? Because according to everyone, you apparently can't question anyone further if they say that. There are 2 issues here. 1) What bathroom should trans people use and 2) is this person trans. I've approached the thread based on 1. If you are posting on 2 then I misinterpreted your posts and I'm sorry.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2013 8:40:26 GMT -5
I don't know what bathrooms that transgendered people should use.... maybe some "other" bathroom. I mean they have family bathrooms in malls - maybe they can have one with the man and the woman on there with like a slash or something between the two pictures.... I don't know. Maybe just a unisex bathroom would do it.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jun 27, 2013 9:17:09 GMT -5
I don't know what bathrooms that transgendered people should use.... maybe some "other" bathroom. I mean they have family bathrooms in malls - maybe they can have one with the man and the woman on there with like a slash or something between the two pictures.... I don't know. Maybe just a unisex bathroom would do it. I wasn't even talking about an adult but the six year old in the court case we were talking about. The school did have the student use the staff bathroom which I assume is just like a home bathroom with a room that has a toilet and sink in it. that wasn't good enough for the child's parents though hense the law suit. I know from experience that a lot of schools don't have fancy bathroom let alone bathroom like at home. Even if the kids are the nicest in the world seeing Suzie has a penis like daddy is going to cause a comotion. If any of the kids are not nice it is a recipe for disaster. But Jen if I get to just pick whatever I want and no one is allowed to ever question me about it screw using the wrong bathroom! I'm going to decide to be a millionaire.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 27, 2013 9:34:09 GMT -5
I suspect there is a good reason many of you don't "just pick whatever you want." Because you already have, and "what you want" is what is typical within our society.
Why would someone choose to engage in a behavior/lifestyle/however you want to refer to it that will almost certainly result in ostracism and ridicule? Who would choose that for themselves just for the hell of it - and when it went against their natural inclinations? Just to freak people out?
I think the "oh we all get to just pick whatever we want now, huh?" argument is a red herring... and I'm pretty sure none of you really believe that being a transman or transwoman is awesome because you get to use the other bathroom and nobody can say anything. Just like - as Rae said - none of us really believe that we'd be living the high life on welfare, or we'd have all quit our jobs and applied for SNAP by now.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 27, 2013 9:39:07 GMT -5
Rae would know more details than me but I remember reading about transgenderism in my sociology textbook. I found it pretty interesting/thought provoking.
It's a really involved process and from what I remember in order to qualify for hormones and surgery you can't just "pick whatever you want". You have to meet certain criteria from a medical standpoint and jump thru a lot of hoops
The speaker I went to see at Simpson said it took about 10 years before she was fully transitioned.
Yeah, someone is going to spend 10 years of their life doing this for the heck of it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2013 10:27:09 GMT -5
Unless he has a camera, is peeking into stalls, or harassing someone then who cares? I do my bidness quickly in a public bathroom. As a parent of a young child I have to say my favorite toilets are family dressing and bathrooms. They rock.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2013 12:35:12 GMT -5
I suspect there is a good reason many of you don't "just pick whatever you want." Because you already have, and "what you want" is what is typical within our society. Why would someone choose to engage in a behavior/lifestyle/however you want to refer to it that will almost certainly result in ostracism and ridicule? Who would choose that for themselves just for the hell of it - and when it went against their natural inclinations? Just to freak people out? I think the "oh we all get to just pick whatever we want now, huh?" argument is a red herring... and I'm pretty sure none of you really believe that being a transman or transwoman is awesome because you get to use the other bathroom and nobody can say anything. Just like - as Rae said - none of us really believe that we'd be living the high life on welfare, or we'd have all quit our jobs and applied for SNAP by now. am I really not making myself clear or is everyone trying to make it look like I'm saying something that I'm not in the scenario I posted last night? Once again, I am NOT saying anything (in this case) about transgendered people - I am posing a scenario that COULD happen. Please re-read what I said earlier up the page about a man using a women's bathroom while falsely using the excuse (in his case) that he identifies as being a woman. While some may argue that he'd get looks and judgement and whatnot, I know guys that wouldn't care what other people thought of what they said.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Jun 27, 2013 12:48:52 GMT -5
But Jenny - a lesbian could do that now and you don't seem to have a problem with it. Or hell, even a straight woman with a weird kink. Why is it only heterosexual men that you worry about using this "loophole?"
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