Male/Female Restrooms at Work

[Deleted]

Would you be uncomfortable if a transgender person that still appears to be of the opposite sex is allowed to use the restroom marked for your gender at your job? To be more clear, say you're a woman and someone you work with is male, transitioning to female and uses the restroom designated for women at work.

In this particular situation, the person's appearance is that of a man with long hair. There has been no change in his outward appearance in at least 3 years (possibly longer), even though he has always talked openly of his intentions to go through the process(es?) to become female.

I think perhaps that's what's causing the problem, that to the women he works with, he's still a man. The women are complaining to their managers about a man using the ladies' restroom. Apparently he's in the stall a long time and they know it's a man even if they don't see him exit the stall, because his feet are facing the wrong way when he's in there. For whatever reason, the employer's solution is to completely enclose the stalls so the women can't see his feet.
 
What do you all think? What should the employer do? Not have designated male/female restrooms? This person is saying that anything less than allowing him to use the women's restroom is discrimination. Use of a single stall restroom is discrimination. Do you think the women are wrong for complaining about being uncomfortable?

[milee]

I'm a woman and I'd be OK with a transgender person in the ladies' room for a couple of reasons:

-  This is a human being and I'd respect her dignity just as much as I'd hope she respects mine.  It may be a little awkward for all of us (her, too I'm sure) but I'll choose feeling a little awkward over embarrassing or humiliating someone any day of the week.  She's going to be dealing with enough BS out there and no way would I want to add to it.

-  There are individual stalls inside most women's bathrooms, so it's not like anybody has to see anything uncomfortable.

-  I'm a sailor, so have had to be a little less worried about male/female privacy than I would personally like... but when it's necessary you do your thing and respect each other and it all works out.

[Shooby]

  I don't know.  I don't think his discomfort with using the men's room should trump women's discomfort of having him in there.  And, it would depend on the layout.  Does he have to walk through the locker room to get to the restroom or is there just male/female restrooms?  And, would it be possible for him to wait until all the women leave the restroom prior to using it?

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Been there, done that.

I had a transgendered person at my last job.  Even though the final surgery had not yet occurred, s/he used the ladies room, and yes, it was used while I was in there.

I don't see what the big deal is.  No one sees anything in stalls anyway (not unless they're looking over or under them).

[milee]

As an employer I hate having to get involved in this type of BS, so tend to get a little Attila the Hun-like.  If people were bitching about the bathrooms, I'd make every single bathroom in the place - and we have 6 of them - unisex and be done with it.

It would be a little like Ally McBeal in the fact that we'd all be in there but probably a lot less fun than they made it look like on TV.

[mmhmm]

Unisex bathrooms aren't that uncommon outside this country.  It really wouldn't bother me.  I've got an individual stall with a door.  That's as private as I can expect to be in a public restroom.

[Deleted]

I'm with all bathrooms being unisex... Cut down on ladies having to wait in line...

[Miss Tequila]

I just did a quick google search. In most states, if a restrooms are designated female then males are not legally allowed to use them. Unisex is ok as long as it is designated as such. A handful of states allow transgendered men to use the women's bathroom....luckily my state it not one if them.

In this day and age I am surprised HR isn't all over this....someone is going to get sick of all if his PC shit and file a lawsuit (unless you are in one of the hippy sippy states where this is allowed)

[Tiny]

Ok, I'm 50, and I've always had a bladder the size of a lima bean - I've been in ALOT of public restrooms and seem to make alot of visits to the restroom at work... and NOT ONCE have I have seen any "lady parts" of my coworkers. That said, I suspect I wouldn't see any "gentleman parts" should a gentleman or one transitioning to lady were to use the "Ladies" room.

There are no urinals in the Ladies rooms I've been in - it's always "stalls" and when I've been in smaller "unisex" rooms - it's stalls again.

Seeing how as I'm not flashing my stuff at other people in the Ladies room and no one else is flashing their stuff - I'm OK with just about anyone useing the Ladies room.

Now, if someone's gonna stand around and lear, or piss in the sink or hover so they can see into the stalls thru the cracks around the door(s) - or stand out in the open with their pants down (or skirt over their hips)  then yeah, I've got a problem and would be reporting it to HR (or the policy or someone!)

In fact, if they made bathrooms 'unisex' and included urinals I'd hope they'd give the boys some privacy with atleast a wall or something so I could walk in while they are doing their thing and NOT see their junk.

Maybe I'm unclear about what it is men do in their 'restroom'? Maybe after emptying the tank they wave Lil John around while walking to the sink all unzipped?

[Tennesseer]

Jun 13, 2013 17:09:37 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Would you be uncomfortable if a transgender person that still appears to be of the opposite sex is allowed to use the restroom marked for your gender at your job? To be more clear, say you're a woman and someone you work with is male, transitioning to female and uses the restroom designated for women at work.

In this particular situation, the person's appearance is that of a man with long hair. There has been no change in his outward appearance in at least 3 years (possibly longer), even though he has always talked openly of his intentions to go through the process(es?) to become female.

I think perhaps that's what's causing the problem, that to the women he works with, he's still a man. The women are complaining to their managers about a man using the ladies' restroom. Apparently he's in the stall a long time and they know it's a man even if they don't see him exit the stall, because his feet are facing the wrong way when he's in there. For whatever reason, the employer's solution is to completely enclose the stalls so the women can't see his feet.
 
What do you all think? What should the employer do? Not have designated male/female restrooms? This person is saying that anything less than allowing him to use the women's restroom is discrimination. Use of a single stall restroom is discrimination. Do you think the women are wrong for complaining about being uncomfortable?

Seems to me if she states she's a trans-gender in transition, she would do all her bathroom business like other women do-sitting down. Would her feet pointing out like other women make you a little more comfortable?

[Tiny]

What the actual problem with a man in the ladies room may be is that as a woman the restroom may seem like a "vulnerable" place - ie it could be a dangerous place if there alone with men (or a man). Not because women have their pants down - but because it is somewhat of a private place (not a lot of traffic) and it would be easy to be taken advantage of there.    Yeah, I know this America and there's that feminism thing and all - but women still have valid reasons to be afraid in some situations.

That might be what's triggering the "OMG! men in the ladies room! It's wrong/uncomfortable" response.

[Deleted]

Jun 13, 2013 17:17:39 GMT -5 Shooby said:

  I don't know.  I don't think his discomfort with using the men's room should trump women's discomfort of having him in there.  And, it would depend on the layout.  Does he have to walk through the locker room to get to the restroom or is there just male/female restrooms?  And, would it be possible for him to wait until all the women leave the restroom prior to using it?

I have no idea how the restrooms are laid out. I don't get the impression that he's willing to wait until the restroom is empty.

I think the simplest solution would be to not seperate the restrooms by gender, then there would be no expectations as to who should or shouldn't be in there. And I guess I'm confused as to at what point a transgender person becomes the other gender. Not that I really want to know the personal details IRL.

I thought it was kind of funny that the employer's solution was to just make it where the women couldn't see the feet of whoever is in a stall.

[Tiny]

I thought it was kind of funny that the employer's solution was to just make it where the women couldn't see the feet of whoever is in a stall.

yeah, like a woman wouldn't stand in a stall facing the toilet while she adjusts some article of clothing or something I've stood facing the toilet while I blew my nose - and once when I had a nose bleed and was hanging out in the stall with tissue pressed to my nose... it made it easier to discard the tissue into the toilet that way... the HORROR of having the person in the next stall stand facing the toilet! LOL!

[susanb]

Jun 13, 2013 17:18:59 GMT -5 milee said:

As an employer I hate having to get involved in this type of BS, so tend to get a little Attila the Hun-like.  If people were bitching about the bathrooms, I'd make every single bathroom in the place - and we have 6 of them - unisex and be done with it.

I think most supervisor and employers hate getting involved with this kind of BS. 

When someone habitually comes to me with "concerns" like this I think:

1. They don't have enough work to keep them focused OR
2. They have an inability to prioritize their time and my time OR
3. They share my character flaw of being petty, but are unable to keep it professional and save it for after work.

Really, I think that these ladies should be more worried about the impression they are making on their supervisor than being uncomfortable.  Work is often uncomfortable.  Being professional means sucking it up and dealing with the discomfort without wasting other people's time as much as possible. 

[Deleted]

Jun 13, 2013 17:43:41 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Jun 13, 2013 17:09:37 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Would you be uncomfortable if a transgender person that still appears to be of the opposite sex is allowed to use the restroom marked for your gender at your job? To be more clear, say you're a woman and someone you work with is male, transitioning to female and uses the restroom designated for women at work.

In this particular situation, the person's appearance is that of a man with long hair. There has been no change in his outward appearance in at least 3 years (possibly longer), even though he has always talked openly of his intentions to go through the process(es?) to become female.

I think perhaps that's what's causing the problem, that to the women he works with, he's still a man. The women are complaining to their managers about a man using the ladies' restroom. Apparently he's in the stall a long time and they know it's a man even if they don't see him exit the stall, because his feet are facing the wrong way when he's in there. For whatever reason, the employer's solution is to completely enclose the stalls so the women can't see his feet.
 
What do you all think? What should the employer do? Not have designated male/female restrooms? This person is saying that anything less than allowing him to use the women's restroom is discrimination. Use of a single stall restroom is discrimination. Do you think the women are wrong for complaining about being uncomfortable?

Seems to me if she states she's a trans-gender in transition, she would do all her bathroom business like other women do-sitting down. Would her feet pointing out like other women make you a little more comfortable?

I don't work there, so it's neither comfortable or uncomfortable for me. I'm mostly glad that I'm not the one that has to figure out how to handle the complaints.

[telephus44]

I wouldn't be offended, but I've always thought we should have Unisex bathrooms anyways.  The college I went to had unisex bathrooms and the biggest thing I learned is that men are people too - they aren't all out to leer you, stalk you, or sexual harass you.  

Graduating and getting back into the real world was a shock.

[Miss Tequila]

Jun 13, 2013 17:53:00 GMT -5 susanb said:

Jun 13, 2013 17:18:59 GMT -5 milee said:

As an employer I hate having to get involved in this type of BS, so tend to get a little Attila the Hun-like.  If people were bitching about the bathrooms, I'd make every single bathroom in the place - and we have 6 of them - unisex and be done with it.

I think most supervisor and employers hate getting involved with this kind of BS. 

When someone habitually comes to me with "concerns" like this I think:

1. They don't have enough work to keep them focused OR
2. They have an inability to prioritize their time and my time OR
3. They share my character flaw of being petty, but are unable to keep it professional and save it for after work.

Really, I think that these ladies should be more worried about the impression they are making on their supervisor than being uncomfortable.  Work is often uncomfortable.  Being professional means sucking it up and dealing with the discomfort without wasting other people's time as much as possible. 

I'm as professional as they came and am far from petty....but I have a major issue wih a guy in the women's room. It just aint right.

Luckily I work for a very large corporation and they are very worried about litigation. This wouldn't fly where I work. Actually, it would be illegal in my state (if my google search was correct...I'm no lawyer!) so they would either have to make all bathroom unisex or ban this guy from the women's room.

[Deleted]

So if they change all the bathrooms to unisex, will you quit?

[Miss Tequila]

Jun 13, 2013 18:01:14 GMT -5 oped said:

So if they change all the bathrooms to unisex, will you quit?

My company is way too old fashioned to ever do something like that. At 41, I'm one of the young ones there!

I do think it is unfortunate that the desire of one guy overshadows everyone else.

[steph08]

It's a bathroom, for crying out loud. I never see anyone else's junk or lady bits in the bathroom. Heck, I rarely see anyone in the restroom at work unless we pass while washing our hands or going in and out. I could care less who else is in there with me. Now in the locker rooms with the showers, that might be a little strange.

[Miss Tequila]

For everyone saying "it is just a bathroom, who cares"....why doesn't that apply to the one guy causing all of the commotion? If it is no big deal, why doesn't he just use the men's room? It seems that all of you think the women are petty for not wanting the guy in their bathroom....isn't he just as petty for not just using the guys bathroom..after all, it's just a bathroom?

[mmhmm]

Thing is, in everything but physical manifestation, "he's" a woman, not a man.

[milee]

Jun 13, 2013 18:14:26 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

For everyone saying "it is just a bathroom, who cares"....why doesn't that apply to the one guy causing all of the commotion? If it is no big deal, why doesn't he just use the men's room? It seems that all of you think the women are petty for not wanting the guy in their bathroom....isn't he just as petty for not just using the guys bathroom..after all, it's just a bathroom?

I can understand that if this person identifies with and feels as if she is a woman, it is humiliating to make her use the restroom meant for men.  Just guessing, but I can see and understand that it would feel like an insult or a slap.

[Miss Tequila]

Jun 13, 2013 18:17:14 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Thing is, in everything but physical manifestation, "he's" a woman, not a man.

Legally and genetically he is a man with man parts

[susanb]

Jun 13, 2013 18:14:26 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

It seems that all of you think the women are petty for not wanting the guy in their bathroom....isn't he just as petty for not just using the guys bathroom..after all, it's just a bathroom?

I don't think they are petty for not wanting a guy in their bathroom.  People's wants are their own concern.  I think they are petty for wasting the time and energy of people they work with on this by talking to their supervisors about it.   

As far as I know, the guy hasn't gone asked management and asked them to get involved in where he goes to the bathroom.  Management has gotten involved as a consequence of his using the ladies room, but not because he went to them and asked them to get involved.

[mmhmm]

Not sure about legally.  I didn't read where he stood legally.  His body parts are still male, apparently.  That doesn't make him a man, unfortunately.  There's more  to us than our body parts.

[Miss Tequila]

Jun 13, 2013 18:19:03 GMT -5 milee said:

Jun 13, 2013 18:14:26 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

For everyone saying "it is just a bathroom, who cares"....why doesn't that apply to the one guy causing all of the commotion? If it is no big deal, why doesn't he just use the men's room? It seems that all of you think the women are petty for not wanting the guy in their bathroom....isn't he just as petty for not just using the guys bathroom..after all, it's just a bathroom?

I can understand that if this person identifies with and feels as if she is a woman, it is humiliating to make her use the restroom meant for men.  Just guessing, but I can see and understand that it would feel like an insult or a slap.

And what if I feel humiliated having to share the bathroom with what I perceive to be a man? His rights trump mine? Actually they don't, not legally in my state. The only wa around this would be a unisex bathroom. Legally I would have no argument then. Until then, his man parts had best stay out if the women's bathroom or HR would have a nightmare on their hands. Not by me ( I actually am quite professional at work!) but our older clerks would have a flipping fit if management told them they had to share a bathroom with a person they identify as a man

[Miss Tequila]

Jun 13, 2013 18:23:05 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Not sure about legally.  I didn't read where he stood legally.  His body parts are still male, apparently.  That doesn't make him a man, unfortunately.  There's more  to us than our body parts.

I did a google search but I'm on my phone and can't post links. I have no idea how valid the few sites are that I found but they all said the same thing....if there are separate bathrooms for sexes than we need to use the bathroom that coincides with genetics. A handful of liberal states allow transgendered to use the bathroom that they identify with. Luckily, my state is t one of them

[Miss Tequila]

Jun 13, 2013 18:22:33 GMT -5 susanb said:

Jun 13, 2013 18:14:26 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

It seems that all of you think the women are petty for not wanting the guy in their bathroom....isn't he just as petty for not just using the guys bathroom..after all, it's just a bathroom?

I don't think they are petty for not wanting a guy in their bathroom.  People's wants are their own concern.  I think they are petty for wasting the time and energy of people they work with on this by talking to their supervisors about it.   

As far as I know, the guy hasn't gone asked management and asked them to get involved in where he goes to the bathroom.  Management has gotten involved as a consequence of his using the ladies room, but not because he went to them and asked them to get involved.

Why we be go to management? He has nothing to complain about since he is getting his way.

I still think he company is at risk for a lawsuit...people be crazy and sue I er everything these days.

[milee]

Jun 13, 2013 18:25:12 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Jun 13, 2013 18:19:03 GMT -5 milee said:

I can understand that if this person identifies with and feels as if she is a woman, it is humiliating to make her use the restroom meant for men.  Just guessing, but I can see and understand that it would feel like an insult or a slap.

And what if I feel humiliated having to share the bathroom with what I perceive to be a man? His rights trump mine? Actually they don't, not legally in my state. The only wa around this would be a unisex bathroom. Legally I would have no argument then. Until then, his man parts had best stay out if the women's bathroom or HR would have a nightmare on their hands. Not by me ( I actually am quite professional at work!) but our older clerks would have a flipping fit if management told them they had to share a bathroom with a person they identify as a man

I hear you and understand.  Sometimes there's no easy choice and both sides have very valid points.

I guess if I had to choose, though, I'd say that your rights to use the bathroom with only people that you perceive to be women do not supercede another person's right to be treated as the gender they feel they are and not be insulted for it.