973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jun 14, 2013 9:44:46 GMT -5
All your law says is that bathrooms have to be made unisex. That is personally what I'd do. It sounds like your company is unlikely to do so in the foreseeable future. No, the laws says if it is unisex I have to suck it up. However, if there are bathrooms designated for men and bathrooms designated for women, then you have to use the bathroom that matches your genetics not what you identify with. Until this board I have never heard of the transgender issue (I HAVE heard of sex change). This is not something that I have heard of anyone else in my area having to deal with (considering I used to audit local companies I do have my finger on what goes on locally). Knowing my company the way I do, I do not think this is something that would be forced upon employees. Unlike Milee who rules with a "do it my way or I will fire you" attitude, my company has an HR department that utilizes several labor attorneys. The first action would be to find out what legally has to be done. If nothing, it would stop there. If they had to do something they would. And if the law said I had to suck it up, I would. I wouldn't be happy about it but I wouldn't cause a stink about it. Actualy, I wouldn't be the one causing the stink. The clerks here are mostly older women and they would be all over this....I would get the benefit of working with older, petty women!lol The regs on bathrooms are from OSHA regs and they cover the whole country like I thought. They can't just slap a unisex sign up on a bathroom that has more than one stall or urinal in it. It just isn't legal per OSHA.
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Jun 14, 2013 9:45:00 GMT -5
I am only uncomfortable with one thing in the bathroom, and that's listening to you poo.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2013 9:45:37 GMT -5
I'll try to keep the grunting down next time.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jun 14, 2013 9:49:21 GMT -5
I'll try to keep the grunting down next time. ...and an occasional courtesy flush please.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 14, 2013 9:57:10 GMT -5
No, the laws says if it is unisex I have to suck it up. However, if there are bathrooms designated for men and bathrooms designated for women, then you have to use the bathroom that matches your genetics not what you identify with. Until this board I have never heard of the transgender issue (I HAVE heard of sex change). This is not something that I have heard of anyone else in my area having to deal with (considering I used to audit local companies I do have my finger on what goes on locally). Knowing my company the way I do, I do not think this is something that would be forced upon employees. Unlike Milee who rules with a "do it my way or I will fire you" attitude, my company has an HR department that utilizes several labor attorneys. The first action would be to find out what legally has to be done. If nothing, it would stop there. If they had to do something they would. And if the law said I had to suck it up, I would. I wouldn't be happy about it but I wouldn't cause a stink about it. Actualy, I wouldn't be the one causing the stink. The clerks here are mostly older women and they would be all over this....I would get the benefit of working with older, petty women!lol The regs on bathrooms are from OSHA regs and they cover the whole country like I thought. They can't just slap a unisex sign up on a bathroom that has more than one stall or urinal in it. It just isn't legal per OSHA. I've never seen a unisex bathroom so I have no idea. When everyone was tossing around unisex bathrooms, I pictures the same stalls that I am used to. We must be a pretty conservative area because I can't remember ever seeing a unisex bathroom at any client, either.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jun 14, 2013 10:04:11 GMT -5
Tina, we have actually had them at every small employer I have ever worked at in recent years. But they are like using a bathroom at a home not a public bathroom with stalls in the mall or a huge corp. They don't bother me probably because to me they look and seem just like a home bathroom and there is no one else that can ever be in it with me. If anyone wants to use it they have to wait until I'm done. Because of what DH does and my company as well I was positive that our laws can't let companies act like it is France and just slap unisex sign on all the restrooms with stalls but I didn't remember it was OSHA until I googled it. So you are safe from the French unisex bathroom.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 14, 2013 10:11:47 GMT -5
At the movies last weekend 11 of the 12 stalls were nasty because the women that finished using them didn't bother to flush or walked away with those paper seat things still on the seat dangling into the pee filled toilet.
I can top that. For a week some woman repeatedly clogged the toilet after doing her "business" and trying to flush it. It was DISGUSTING.
I also can't figure out how women cover the entire toilet seat with urine. They must be hovering several feet over the bowl because it seems like it should be physically impossible for a women to miss the bowl that badly.
I'd gladly share a bathroom with a transgendered man, or anyone else really if they don't leave messes like the above.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jun 14, 2013 10:22:46 GMT -5
At the movies last weekend 11 of the 12 stalls were nasty because the women that finished using them didn't bother to flush or walked away with those paper seat things still on the seat dangling into the pee filled toilet.
I can top that. For a week some woman repeatedly clogged the toilet after doing her "business" and trying to flush it. It was DISGUSTING. I also can't figure out how women cover the entire toilet seat with urine. They must be hovering several feet over the bowl because it seems like it should be physically impossible for a women to miss the bowl that badly. I'd gladly share a bathroom with a transgendered man, or anyone else really if they don't leave messes like the above. it probably isnt the woman doing it it is the toilets with the high powered spray flushing. the first time I actually watched a toilet flush with the air assist type thing and spray all over the seat I was shocked because I had always assumed it was the person before me doing it. I guess that means the person after me thinks it's me too.
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greeniis10
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Post by greeniis10 on Jun 14, 2013 10:32:27 GMT -5
I can understand that if this person identifies with and feels as if she is a woman, it is humiliating to make her use the restroom meant for men. Just guessing, but I can see and understand that it would feel like an insult or a slap. And what if I feel humiliated having to share the bathroom with what I perceive to be a man? His rights trump mine? Actually they don't, not legally in my state. The only wa around this would be a unisex bathroom. Legally I would have no argument then. Until then, his man parts had best stay out if the women's bathroom or HR would have a nightmare on their hands. Not by me ( I actually am quite professional at work!) but our older clerks would have a flipping fit if management told them they had to share a bathroom with a person they identify as a man 1. It doesn't matter what THEY identify him as; it matters we HE/SHE identifies as. 2. I'm really glad I don't work at such a small/closed minded place! (not directed at you personally, of course) Now to read the rest of the thread...
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Jun 14, 2013 10:35:08 GMT -5
At my old job, there were occasionally drag queens who would try and use the women's restroom. It would always result in a lot of yelling, the guy getting beat up and then being fired for 'causing a disturbance'. Of course these guys weren't necessiarly real transgenders, just guys who like wearing women's clothes. There was also a woman there who decided she wanted to be a guy. She had a buzz cut and dressed like a man. She was able to get away with it. I guess a woman in the men's bathroom is less threatening than a man in the woman's bathroom.
Personally, I wouldn't care if they did a unisex bathroom, as long as the gaps in the doors were taken care of. They have unisex changing rooms in Target, complete with gapless doors, and I haven't heard of any problems.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2013 10:47:30 GMT -5
At my old job, there were occasionally drag queens who would try and use the women's restroom. It would always result in a lot of yelling, the guy getting beat up and then being fired for 'causing a disturbance'. Of course these guys weren't necessiarly real transgenders, just guys who like wearing women's clothes. There was also a woman there who decided she wanted to be a guy. She had a buzz cut and dressed like a man. She was able to get away with it. I guess a woman in the men's bathroom is less threatening than a man in the woman's bathroom.
Personally, I wouldn't care if they did a unisex bathroom, as long as the gaps in the doors were taken care of. They have unisex changing rooms in Target, complete with gapless doors, and I haven't heard of any problems. Well, yes. Most sexual assaults are male to female. I would be nervous to have a transwoman or a man in the bathroom with me, because of its isolation and the fact that I have to remove clothes to go to the bathroom. However, asking a transwoman to go to the men's restroom can also put her at risk. There have been assaults when transwomen try to use either restroom. There should be private unisex restrooms in all business that have restrooms, for safety-sake and that would make everyone comfortable. The fact that you seemed have no problem with a person being beaten up because of how he or she dresses bothers me. Also makes me wish we had federal laws protecting transpeople from being fired based on their gender identity. I don't know how you have decided that those people were drag queens and not trans, and why even if they were (which I doubt because why would someone risk being beaten, unless it was part of their identity), why was it alright for them to be beaten?
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greeniis10
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Post by greeniis10 on Jun 14, 2013 10:59:11 GMT -5
It wouldn't bother me in the least to share a bathroom with a transgendered person, regardless of what stage of the process they were in. If general privacy and cleanliness procedures are followed then their physcial features are irrelevent. THEY decide and know what gender they are regardless of what physical body parts they were born with. It's certainly not up to me to decide for them or disagree with them.
I guess I don't see what the big hulabaloo is about anyway: family restrooms have been around for quite some time. Same thing, isn't it? If a father takes his little girl into the family restroom (say, at the mall) is he not allowed to use the restroom, too? It's not like he then goes into the men's room; that would defeat the purpose of the family designated usage. I don't know, maybe I'm not understanding correctly because it doesn't seem to be such a big deal to me.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Jun 14, 2013 11:01:51 GMT -5
At my old job, there were occasionally drag queens who would try and use the women's restroom. It would always result in a lot of yelling, the guy getting beat up and then being fired for 'causing a disturbance'. Of course these guys weren't necessiarly real transgenders, just guys who like wearing women's clothes. There was also a woman there who decided she wanted to be a guy. She had a buzz cut and dressed like a man. She was able to get away with it. I guess a woman in the men's bathroom is less threatening than a man in the woman's bathroom.
Personally, I wouldn't care if they did a unisex bathroom, as long as the gaps in the doors were taken care of. They have unisex changing rooms in Target, complete with gapless doors, and I haven't heard of any problems. Well, yes. Most sexual assaults are male to female. I would be nervous to have a transwoman or a man in the bathroom with me, because of its isolation and the fact that I have to remove clothes to go to the bathroom. However, asking a transwoman to go to the men's restroom can also put her at risk. There have been assaults when transwomen try to use either restroom. There should be private unisex restrooms in all business that have restrooms, for safety-sake and that would make everyone comfortable. The fact that you seemed have no problem with a person being beaten up because of how he or she dresses bothers me. Also makes me wish we had federal laws protecting transpeople from being fired based on their gender identity. I don't know how you have decided that those people were drag queens and not trans, and why even if they were (which I doubt because why would someone risk being beaten, unless it was part of their identity), why was it alright for them to be beaten? Thank you gin. Very good post. Using public bathrooms is one of the most stressful parts of transition, and as former pointed out trans people face being yelled at and even physical violence from using either bathroom. It's nor about being pc or throwing around liberal crap. It's about compassion for others.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2013 11:05:21 GMT -5
I am only uncomfortable with one thing in the bathroom, and that's listening to you poo. Oh Oh that smell!
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Jun 14, 2013 11:07:04 GMT -5
I didn't say that these guys were not transgendered. I said I didn't know if they were transgendered. You do know that not all drag queens are transgendered, don't you? This was a call center, with crappy pay and even crappier insurance that likely wouldn't cover the kind of testing you'd need to do to figure this stuff out. And as I stated before, unlike some posters here, I don't have any issues with unisex bathroom, so quit making idiotic and ugly accusations. You sound like a moron.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 14, 2013 11:44:40 GMT -5
And what if I feel humiliated having to share the bathroom with what I perceive to be a man? His rights trump mine? Actually they don't, not legally in my state. The only wa around this would be a unisex bathroom. Legally I would have no argument then. Until then, his man parts had best stay out if the women's bathroom or HR would have a nightmare on their hands. Not by me ( I actually am quite professional at work!) but our older clerks would have a flipping fit if management told them they had to share a bathroom with a person they identify as a man 1. It doesn't matter what THEY identify him as; it matters we HE/SHE identifies as. 2. I'm really glad I don't work at such a small/closed minded place! (not directed at you personally, of course) Now to read the rest of the thread... I've decided I now identify as a black person...does that make me black? I'm not trying to be flippant but can you understand how a lot of us don't necessarily agree with "well I identify as this so therefore I am"? Once you have had the surgery and are legally a different sex tehn I have to accept that. Much like the a woman staying in an abusive relationship, I guess there are some things I will never understand (not comparing the two for anyone not following that thread). Again, in real life I would never be rude to a transgender....but I do draw the line when they decide they have the right to use the stall next to me (and am backed by law in my state, btw). How someone lives their life is up to them (unless it costs me money or harms someone else) but don't infringe on the rest of us in doing so. If you want respect you have to give respect...if the majority of females at this workplace are not comfortable with their transgender co-worker in their bathroom then I think out of respect he ought not to use it.
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greeniis10
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Post by greeniis10 on Jun 14, 2013 11:51:31 GMT -5
I can see how it would be difficult to agree with someone who identifies as the opposite gender if you've never had the experience first hand. I know someone whose "son" was born with all the male body parts but he has never been nor will he ever feel male. "She" truly was born in the wrong body. I've watched her grow up and go through so many things quite successfully and I'm very proud of her and her family for their understanding and acceptance. I don't know that she'll ever go through actual surgery, but it doesn't matter to me. She is a she and she is a wonderful person.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 14, 2013 12:06:15 GMT -5
I can see how it would be difficult to agree with someone who identifies as the opposite gender if you've never had the experience first hand. I know someone whose "son" was born with all the male body parts but he has never been nor will he ever feel male. "She" truly was born in the wrong body. I've watched her grow up and go through so many things quite successfully and I'm very proud of her and her family for their understanding and acceptance. I don't know that she'll ever go through actual surgery, but it doesn't matter to me. She is a she and she is a wonderful person. And that is wonderful that the child is doing so well. Me, I would have freaked the F out if my dd thought she was a boy...seriously, not enough alcohol out there for me to handle that one!
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 14, 2013 12:06:24 GMT -5
The problem with this statement is that if you substitute any other minority group for transgender, it sounds pretty damn bad.
50 years ago many whites didn't want to share restrooms (or drinking fountains, or swimming pools) with black people. They weren't comfortable with it. And at the time they were backed up by the law. Should black people - out of respect - have refrained from doing things that would've made these whites uncomfortable, like riding the bus, or using their restrooms?
I suspect that in another 50 years, we as a society will look back on our treatment of the LGBT population and be just as chastened as (most of us) are by our previous treatment of the black population.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Jun 14, 2013 12:07:52 GMT -5
I would actually feel safer in a completely unisex bathroom that probably had more traffic than designated bathrooms. Especially if we were out somewhere, DH could go in there with DD and I.
And for goodness sake, it's a bathroom. Everyone goes in there to do the same business. Have a lot of stalls (with the privacy guards over the gaps so no one can peek in) and call it good. I am normally a pretty conservative person but I find this to be really petty. And nursing/pumping areas don't need to be in the women's restrooms anyway. Put those somewhere else.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Jun 14, 2013 12:08:17 GMT -5
1. It doesn't matter what THEY identify him as; it matters we HE/SHE identifies as. 2. I'm really glad I don't work at such a small/closed minded place! (not directed at you personally, of course) Now to read the rest of the thread... I've decided I now identify as a black person...does that make me black? I'm not trying to be flippant but can you understand how a lot of us don't necessarily agree with "well I identify as this so therefore I am"? Once you have had the surgery and are legally a different sex tehn I have to accept that. Much like the a woman staying in an abusive relationship, I guess there are some things I will never understand (not comparing the two for anyone not following that thread). Again, in real life I would never be rude to a transgender....but I do draw the line when they decide they have the right to use the stall next to me (and am backed by law in my state, btw). How someone lives their life is up to them (unless it costs me money or harms someone else) but don't infringe on the rest of us in doing so. If you want respect you have to give respect...if the majority of females at this workplace are not comfortable with their transgender co-worker in their bathroom then I think out of respect he ought not to use it. And if the men aren't comfortable with her using their bathroom what should she do?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 14, 2013 12:13:27 GMT -5
The problem with this statement is that if you substitute any other minority group for transgender, it sounds pretty damn bad. 50 years ago many whites didn't want to share restrooms (or drinking fountains, or swimming pools) with black people. They weren't comfortable with it. And at the time they were backed up by the law. Should black people - out of respect - have refrained from doing things that would've made these whites uncomfortable, like riding the bus, or using their restrooms? That is completely different. Without being offensive, not everyone agrees that just because someone identifies as male it means they are a male. A black person is black, regardless of what they think (except Michael Jackson!lol)....completely different thing. I'm as white as white can get. I can't decide to suddenly become black and think that everyone around me should just accept that I'm black. People might humor me but at the end of the day, my ass is lilly white and there ain't no changing that. Here is the thing, if pervy Pete wanted to use the women's bathroom he would be arrested or at least fired. If it is no big deal, tehn why can't Pervy Pete use the women's restroom? Why, because he is a MAN. I also don't understand lesbians (I have gay family so I do not mean that in a negative way...I don't understand being attracted to teh same sex) but I have absolutely no problem with the butchiest of lesbians using a female bathroom. Why? Because they are FEMALE! Sorry, wanting to be something different than what we are doesn't make it so.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 14, 2013 12:14:24 GMT -5
I would actually feel safer in a completely unisex bathroom that probably had more traffic than designated bathrooms. Especially if we were out somewhere, DH could go in there with DD and I. And for goodness sake, it's a bathroom. Everyone goes in there to do the same business. Have a lot of stalls (with the privacy guards over the gaps so no one can peek in) and call it good. I am normally a pretty conservative person but I find this to be really petty. And nursing/pumping areas don't need to be in the women's restrooms anyway. Put those somewhere else. Again, if it is no big deal then the genetically male person should use the men's room. You can't say it is "no big deal" for everyone BUT the one causing the commotion.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 14, 2013 12:15:32 GMT -5
I've decided I now identify as a black person...does that make me black? I'm not trying to be flippant but can you understand how a lot of us don't necessarily agree with "well I identify as this so therefore I am"? Once you have had the surgery and are legally a different sex tehn I have to accept that. Much like the a woman staying in an abusive relationship, I guess there are some things I will never understand (not comparing the two for anyone not following that thread). Again, in real life I would never be rude to a transgender....but I do draw the line when they decide they have the right to use the stall next to me (and am backed by law in my state, btw). How someone lives their life is up to them (unless it costs me money or harms someone else) but don't infringe on the rest of us in doing so. If you want respect you have to give respect...if the majority of females at this workplace are not comfortable with their transgender co-worker in their bathroom then I think out of respect he ought not to use it. And if the men aren't comfortable with her using their bathroom what should she do? Then the men are wrong...she is for all intents and purposes a male, with male parts. That is not different than the transvestite that someone posted about earlier...they both have man parts and should use the mens room.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jun 14, 2013 12:24:17 GMT -5
It might bother me a little, at least at first. But I could live with it. It's not like I strip naked in the bathrooms at work, and I'm not even in there that long anyway.
I think the women at your workplace should do the same. Learn to live with it.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Jun 14, 2013 12:24:40 GMT -5
So we're going to do genital checks to make sure people are in the right bathroom. Got it.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 14, 2013 12:26:45 GMT -5
No no, you only look for size 12 feet pointing the wrong direction.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jun 14, 2013 12:33:21 GMT -5
As for all bathrooms becoming Unisex, sure, why not? Unless it's a specific locker room or changing room, what's the big deal? If you really need privacy to adjust yourself or change, they've got stalls.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Jun 14, 2013 12:36:05 GMT -5
I think having a unisex bathroom added would be great! When I have to pee I don't care who's in there with me - I gots to go!! But just that. Everything else I don't want anybody in there at all. I hate public bathrooms in general.
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greeniis10
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Post by greeniis10 on Jun 14, 2013 12:41:02 GMT -5
I can see how it would be difficult to agree with someone who identifies as the opposite gender if you've never had the experience first hand. I know someone whose "son" was born with all the male body parts but he has never been nor will he ever feel male. "She" truly was born in the wrong body. I've watched her grow up and go through so many things quite successfully and I'm very proud of her and her family for their understanding and acceptance. I don't know that she'll ever go through actual surgery, but it doesn't matter to me. She is a she and she is a wonderful person. And that is wonderful that the child is doing so well. Me, I would have freaked the F out if my dd thought she was a boy...seriously, not enough alcohol out there for me to handle that one! Oh, growing up that way certainly wasn't easy, but I guess that's what I mean by having personal experience with it. She was born into a fairly conservative family but there was just no question from anyone that although proclaimed a boy at birth that "B" was a girl. No one doubted or questioned it. Unfortunately, it was a mistake of nature (or whatever you'd call it). It was never a conscious choice on her part. She's now in her early 20's and doing well.
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