midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 14, 2013 12:41:57 GMT -5
I don't think it matters whether the person is "genuine" or not, as several posters have indicated that no matter what the outward appearance may be, penises go in the mens room and vaginas go in the women's room, and anything deviating from that is "illegal" and shouldn't be tolerated.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Jun 14, 2013 12:44:18 GMT -5
I would actually feel safer in a completely unisex bathroom that probably had more traffic than designated bathrooms. Especially if we were out somewhere, DH could go in there with DD and I. And for goodness sake, it's a bathroom. Everyone goes in there to do the same business. Have a lot of stalls (with the privacy guards over the gaps so no one can peek in) and call it good. I am normally a pretty conservative person but I find this to be really petty. And nursing/pumping areas don't need to be in the women's restrooms anyway. Put those somewhere else. Again, if it is no big deal then the genetically male person should use the men's room. You can't say it is "no big deal" for everyone BUT the one causing the commotion. I've used the men's room before. Once on accident - we were at the zoo and I took DD in for a diaper change. Didn't even notice until we were leaving and some guy was walking in, but there had been others in the stalls at the time. No big deal. I've done it on purpose when the line for the ladies room was too long. No one said anything to me then either. And I don't mind if guys come into the ladies room - I've seen that on several occasions as well. Guess I figure if I am going to use the guys room when it is beneficial to me I can't complain if a guy uses the ladies room when it's beneficial to him.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Jun 14, 2013 12:46:07 GMT -5
So we're going to do genital checks to make sure people are in the right bathroom. Got it. Rae, you may be too close to this situation to see another side. You are accepting this person as a bona fide transgendered person. Based on the information in the OP - they may not be. In 3 years they have only grown their hair and using the ladies room. It is possible that they are pulling some kind of stunt here and are not transgendered. OP states that this person appears as a man with long hair that is what I am basing this on. I can see some weirdo doing this just to use the ladies room for some fetish. The OP may be incorrect and that this person is taking many steps to be the female gender, but the coworkers don't see it/don't want to see it. It could be either/or situations, but you are reacting only as if the person is genuine. I don't think we have nearly enough information for that determination. I think I posted my interpretation of the trans persons dilemma from the op last night. Could I be wrong and this be some wack job and not actually transgendered , of course. But we haven't been discussing is *this* person really trans, but what bathroom trans people should use.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jun 14, 2013 12:52:29 GMT -5
I guess, what I don't get about the OP is that if the person is attempting to change genders from male to female, why would they not endorse ALL female mannerisms.....including sitting down to pee?
I do realize that this is not only a female trait, but women can't stand up to pee (or pee neatly, anyway) but males can choose to either sit down or stand. In this case, one would assume that if they were really intent on becoming a woman, it would make a hell of a lot more sense to adopt more female ways of doing things?
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Jun 14, 2013 13:02:58 GMT -5
I've seen this sentiment several times in the thread as well. Come on, people, everyone poops. Sometimes you do what you need to do at the time. It's probably just as embarassing for the person that made the place all stinky. Can't we grow up & realize it's a normal bodily function and get past that? Get better air circulation in the bathroom and keep it clean to keep the smells at bay. But let's not act like little kids and make fun of the person that has to poop. Sheesh.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Jun 14, 2013 13:20:49 GMT -5
The problem with this statement is that if you substitute any other minority group for transgender, it sounds pretty damn bad. 50 years ago many whites didn't want to share restrooms (or drinking fountains, or swimming pools) with black people. They weren't comfortable with it. And at the time they were backed up by the law. Should black people - out of respect - have refrained from doing things that would've made these whites uncomfortable, like riding the bus, or using their restrooms? That is completely different. Without being offensive, not everyone agrees that just because someone identifies as male it means they are a male. A black person is black, regardless of what they think (except Michael Jackson!lol)....completely different thing. I'm as white as white can get. I can't decide to suddenly become black and think that everyone around me should just accept that I'm black. People might humor me but at the end of the day, my ass is lilly white and there ain't no changing that. Here is the thing, if pervy Pete wanted to use the women's bathroom he would be arrested or at least fired. If it is no big deal, tehn why can't Pervy Pete use the women's restroom? Why, because he is a MAN. I also don't understand lesbians (I have gay family so I do not mean that in a negative way...I don't understand being attracted to teh same sex) but I have absolutely no problem with the butchiest of lesbians using a female bathroom. Why? Because they are FEMALE! Sorry, wanting to be something different than what we are doesn't make it so. I don't think it is different. You don't believe that there is a medical condition that causes this. That doesn't mean there isn't one. I think the only difference is time and perspective.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2013 13:49:56 GMT -5
I'm sorry but I have a huge problem with the "I say, therefore I am" approach to all facets of identity. So what would happen if tomorrow I decided that I was a horse trapped in a human female body? Could I request to have a patch of grass to poop on while I'm at work? And would my random neighing be acceptable?
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Jun 14, 2013 13:53:46 GMT -5
There isn't anyway to respond to that Jenny, and if that is how you feel my guess is that no amount of medical information will change your mind.
Personally I don't believe anyone would ever go through transition just because they can.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 14, 2013 13:57:31 GMT -5
I'm sorry but I have a huge problem with the "I say, therefore I am" approach to all facets of identity. So what would happen if tomorrow I decided that I was a horse trapped in a human female body? Could I request to have a patch of grass to poop on while I'm at work? And would my random neighing be acceptable? Wait...I'm not supposed to poop on the grass at work?? God damn CL, shredding another memo
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2013 14:03:29 GMT -5
Also, sex is not the same as gender. Gender is a social construct; sex is a biological concept. This person in the OP may say their gender is female, but their sex is male.
XX = female XY = male
Can't get more straightforward than that. We have to draw the line somewhere.
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Bob Ross
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Post by Bob Ross on Jun 14, 2013 14:09:57 GMT -5
I've seen this sentiment several times in the thread as well. Come on, people, everyone poops. Sometimes you do what you need to do at the time. It's probably just as embarassing for the person that made the place all stinky. Can't we grow up & realize it's a normal bodily function and get past that? Get better air circulation in the bathroom and keep it clean to keep the smells at bay. But let's not act like little kids and make fun of the person that has to poop. Sheesh. well - you meat eaters have real stinkers compared to us vegans. Just saying. LOL! Proof that vegans think their sh*t smells better.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 14, 2013 14:28:22 GMT -5
What about being gay? Is that a choice? Or is it biological? If you do think sexual attraction is biological, why can't sexual identity also be biological?
I don't think most of us would choose to do something that goes against our inner desires. I identify as heterosexual, so I'm not going to divorce DH to shack up with a woman. Why would I want to? My sister-in-law is gay, and I highly doubt she's going to her gf so she can start sleeping with men, even though that would be more acceptable to society.
Someone who was born male but identifies as a woman (or vice versa) is no different, IMO. And forcing them to live as a gender with which they don't identify is (again IMO) no different from telling a gay person they should just marry someone of the opposite sex because that's the "normal" thing to do.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 14, 2013 14:32:32 GMT -5
I do not want to smell anyone elses business, even my own family, certianly not a coworker or stranger. I don't think it is "acting like little kids" to not want to smell another person's excrement.
I also don't want to see it perched on a wad of toilet paper so high/big it touches the rim of the bowl. This happened repeately for a week and it clogged up the only female toilet on the floor. I don't want to walk into the stall and see your business hanging out in the bowl. That's happened multiple times too without clogging. I'm fine with poop, but I'm not fine with people being rude. Flushing is just good manners. If transgender guy flushes and doesn't clog the toilet, he's more than welcome. Definetly more so than that inconsiderate female pooper.
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Bob Ross
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Post by Bob Ross on Jun 14, 2013 14:33:46 GMT -5
I think that the global qualifier should be "if you pee standing up, then you use the men's room". No fuss, no muss.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jun 14, 2013 14:36:37 GMT -5
Sorry but when it comes to what parts you have and don't have I don't agree with that thinking. No one is forcing them to live that way they simply have one set of parts and not the other. Why should every other person who uses that restroom based on their gender have to accomdate that one individual? I have no problem with someone's sexual orientation or identifying as the opposite sex but that doesn't change what's under the hood and it's overly PC expecting everyone else to accomdate them.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 14, 2013 14:42:20 GMT -5
I think that the global qualifier should be "if you pee standing up, then you use the men's room". No fuss, no muss. When I'm out I do the female hover...where should I pee?
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Jun 14, 2013 14:45:21 GMT -5
I've seen this sentiment several times in the thread as well. Come on, people, everyone poops. Sometimes you do what you need to do at the time. It's probably just as embarassing for the person that made the place all stinky. Can't we grow up & realize it's a normal bodily function and get past that? Get better air circulation in the bathroom and keep it clean to keep the smells at bay. But let's not act like little kids and make fun of the person that has to poop. Sheesh. One coworker of mine complained about the lack of courtesy flushing. I made the point that half the toilets spray up so much water that they cover the toilet seat with water, and you can't really expect someone to allow her lady parts to be splashed with water from a public toilet just so that someone doesn't have to endure a bad smell.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 14, 2013 14:45:27 GMT -5
I guess I'm just not understanding the need to know what other people are carrying around in their pants in order to decide whether I'm OK sharing a restroom with them.
I have never seen any of my coworkers' genitals (which I would hope is the case for everyone) and so I really have no idea what's down there. For all I know, I'm already sharing a restroom with someone who was born male (I work on a floor with 100+ employees and 2 male/2 female restrooms). Who knows? Who cares?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 14, 2013 14:46:22 GMT -5
When I'm out I do the female hover...where should I pee
So YOU are the one peeing on the seat! In Malayasia they have squat toilets. Work exactly how it sounds. No need for bottom to touch seat.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 14, 2013 14:49:14 GMT -5
I think that the global qualifier should be "if you pee standing up, then you use the men's room". No fuss, no muss. As I've said before my BIL pees sitting down as that's the way he was raised. His brother and my nephew all pee sitting down. So by your logic he should be using the women's restroom.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2013 14:52:53 GMT -5
What about being gay? Is that a choice? Or is it biological? If you do think sexual attraction is biological, why can't sexual identity also be biological? I don't think most of us would choose to do something that goes against our inner desires. I identify as heterosexual, so I'm not going to divorce DH to shack up with a woman. Why would I want to? My sister-in-law is gay, and I highly doubt she's going to her gf so she can start sleeping with men, even though that would be more acceptable to society. Someone who was born male but identifies as a woman (or vice versa) is no different, IMO. And forcing them to live as a gender with which they don't identify is (again IMO) no different from telling a gay person they should just marry someone of the opposite sex because that's the "normal" thing to do. I didn't say that being gay is a choice or even being unable to identify as your born sex is a choice. I am saying that we are physically born as something and no amount of us not identifying with it will change that. A man can get tucked/have a vagina made for him, get breast implants, take hormones - the whole nine yards..... If he has a Y chromosome, he is a male. We cannot change our genetic makeup.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Jun 14, 2013 14:59:08 GMT -5
So what are hermaphrodites supposed to use? I know they are rare but seriously - what are they supposed to do? Hold it? And how would anybody know what somebody is without checking? People look so different these days and some I can't tell at all whether they are male or female. I think "don't ask don't tell" works for me.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 14, 2013 15:01:10 GMT -5
OK, now I'm confused.
Are we supposed to choose the appropriate restroom based on our genitals, or our chromosomes?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2013 15:02:34 GMT -5
I'd normally say honor system, but.....
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Jun 14, 2013 15:02:46 GMT -5
OK, now I'm confused. Are we supposed to choose the appropriate restroom based on our genitals, or our chromosomes? My vote goes to the one that is available and cleanest at this point.
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Bob Ross
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Post by Bob Ross on Jun 14, 2013 15:04:35 GMT -5
I think that the global qualifier should be "if you pee standing up, then you use the men's room". No fuss, no muss. As I've said before my BIL pees sitting down as that's the way he was raised. His brother and my nephew all pee sitting down. So by your logic he should be using the women's restroom. No, your BIL should be using the Weird restroom.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2013 15:05:22 GMT -5
Well if we can't go by the exterior to determine gender, how would checking genitals be helpful?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 14, 2013 15:08:02 GMT -5
So what are hermaphrodites supposed to use? I know they are rare but seriously - what are they supposed to do? Hold it? And how would anybody know what somebody is without checking? People look so different these days and some I can't tell at all whether they are male or female. I think "don't ask don't tell" works for me. In this case the women work with this person so they know he was a man who now identifies as a woman.
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Bob Ross
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Post by Bob Ross on Jun 14, 2013 15:08:36 GMT -5
The answer to this problem is simple. Just add a transgendered bathroom to every single building that has men and women's bathrooms. Think of the jobs created. It will singlehandedly save the economy.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 14, 2013 15:08:54 GMT -5
I can see it now, genetic screening before you can be let into the bathroom. If you have a Y chromosome you go in this line. . two Xs you go in another.
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