Yet another last place finish for America- paid vacations

[Deleted]

LOL.  They are also probably not dumb enough to argue with people who have made up their minds regardless of the facts.  That probably goes a long way to promoting personal happiness....

This place is nowhere near as fun as it used to be.  I think I need to take a hiatus.

[Deleted]

bob are you always this insulting to people that disagree with you? It's very unattractive. I know exactly what independant auditors are and I know that when it comes to the stock market they aren't so independant.

Even if I accept your figures on who own what percentages of shares of oil stock, then accept your contention that exectutives don't really make that much (   it is still a small percentage of the American people that get the profits. Considering only about 50% of Americans own stock, I'll be generous and say that 60% of them own oil stock, that is a maximum of 30% of the general population that own oil stock. Then take out those brainless masses you talked about that don't know what they are doing and you are looking at a maximum of 15% making money off of the oil. In contrast Norway shares the profits with all citizens whether or not they can afford to buy in or know what they are doing on the market.

Now I really, really am not hanging around here anymore to read your obnoxious insults and oil company talking point.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

47% of wage earners have no federal income tax liability. I consider that a paid vacation. They should enjoy it while it lasts.

[EVT1]

Jun 3, 2013 20:13:53 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

47% of wage earners have no federal income tax liability. I consider that a paid vacation. They should enjoy it while it lasts.

Never mind the 47% crap- but I am sure people not making enough to pay income taxes thank God everyday for their easy lives as the working poor.  We should all shit on them as much as possible.

[djAdvocate]

Jun 3, 2013 20:13:53 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

47% of wage earners have no federal income tax liability. I consider that a paid vacation.

They should enjoy it while it lasts.

in a plurality of cases it won't last long.  they are over 65.  so, you are cheerfully awaiting their demise?

[mmhmm]

Brunei has kept themselves their own little secret for many years.

[Deleted]

oooooh the poor people

what so many of you fail to freaking see, is that a LOT of them caused their own misery

where is their accountability....

where is their part of the solution?

that is what we dont see.....you all talk about us "shitting" on all the poor people

why are they in their sad state of affairs?

forget the mentally challenged or physically challenged? we know we will have to help take care of these....

But the others......

who decided to get pregnant at 16 and not finish high school?

who decided to rob the corner grocer instead of learning to change oil in vehicles?

who made the choice to become a drug addict? gambler? 

so many bad decisions.....so much laziness.....so many unwilling to work through the tough times

yes....there are good, hard working poor people...lots of them.....

but we cant afford to keep throwing money at those that really dont want to help themselves

and making sure "everyone" gets a vacation is the least of my concerns at this point

[chiver78]

Jun 4, 2013 8:13:57 GMT -5 @gdgyva said:

oooooh the poor people

what so many of you fail to freaking see, is that a LOT of them caused their own misery

where is their accountability....

where is their part of the solution?

that is what we dont see.....you all talk about us "shitting" on all the poor people

why are they in their sad state of affairs?

forget the mentally challenged or physically challenged? we know we will have to help take care of these....

But the others......

who decided to get pregnant at 16 and not finish high school?

who decided to rob the corner grocer instead of learning to change oil in vehicles?

who made the choice to become a drug addict? gambler? 

so many bad decisions.....so much laziness.....so many unwilling to work through the tough times

yes....there are good, hard working poor people...lots of them.....

but we cant afford to keep throwing money at those that really dont want to help themselves

and making sure "everyone" gets a vacation is the least of my concerns at this point

what about all the people that work multiple jobs and can't get ahead, because every time they start to get somewhere, they get laid off again. or Murphy strikes and wipes out that EF....and does it again before they can rebuild? you seem to gloss over them pretty glibly here, and that's what the safety nets are for.

[Angel!]

Jun 4, 2013 8:25:29 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Furthermore, not everybody is born smart and good looking, and if one is neither life is just going to be harder, most likely. That is just the way it is. I'm not going to piss on the guy that makes $8.00/ hour because he wants a beer after work too.

  Or into a good family with decent role models. 

It is really easy to say they just need to work harder or do X, Y, Z.  But, the truth is I am smarter than most people, I had decent, hardworking middle class parents that are still married today, we lived in a great neighborhood & I went to a fantastic school, my parents were both were college graduates & pushed me/supported me in school, they helped pay my way through college.  A lot of my success is due to influences and factors outside of my control when I was growing up. 

If I had been born to a uneducated single mom that wasn't around much, didn't care if I did well in school or even attended, we lived in a poor neighborhood, I went to a poor school, I was not as smart so school was a struggle, well then I certainly would not be where I am today. Many people are born a few steps further down the ladder, so they have to work two or three times as hard to get where I got with ease.

As someone else said, There for the grace of God... It makes me sad that some people so lack in empathy that they feel the need to shit on people, who just like the rest of us, are just doing the best they can.

[EVT1]

Jun 4, 2013 8:13:57 GMT -5 @gdgyva said:

oooooh the poor people

what so many of you fail to freaking see, is that a LOT of them caused their own misery

where is their accountability....

where is their part of the solution?

that is what we dont see.....you all talk about us "shitting" on all the poor people

why are they in their sad state of affairs?

forget the mentally challenged or physically challenged? we know we will have to help take care of these....

But the others......

who decided to get pregnant at 16 and not finish high school?

who decided to rob the corner grocer instead of learning to change oil in vehicles?

who made the choice to become a drug addict? gambler? 

so many bad decisions.....so much laziness.....so many unwilling to work through the tough times

yes....there are good, hard working poor people...lots of them.....

but we cant afford to keep throwing money at those that really dont want to help themselves

and making sure "everyone" gets a vacation is the least of my concerns at this point

What does any of that have to do with it?  We are talking about a mandatory vacation period be allowed for a full time worker- and it doesn't even have to be paid.  I swear so many people are hung up on these mysterious welfare rats and 'bad choices' folks they fail to distinguish the difference between the working poor and those that abuse the system.  Get over yourself.  You are shitting on all of them because you despise what a few of them do.  All you see is the famous right-wing sterotypical welfare queen- the myth that will never die.  You have no idea how hard some of these people have it- maybe by some bad choices, maybe just brought up by shitty parents, but you can be sure a lot of them work as hard or harder that you or I do.  You don't ever notice them- they serve you coffee or clean up after you.  They are the ones waiting on the bus early in the AM and in the afternoons because they can't afford a vehicle- and they can't call in sick either because they will get fired.  But a week off, that's just too much- that's the line in the sand I guess.  Only in the USA.

[djAdvocate]

Jun 3, 2013 18:40:47 GMT -5 @investorbob said:

LOL.  They are also probably not dumb enough to argue with people who have made up their minds regardless of the facts.  That probably goes a long way to promoting personal happiness....

This place is nowhere near as fun as it used to be.  I think I need to take a hiatus.

if you are in one of the states that recently legalized pot, might i offer you a suggestion? 

[djAdvocate]

Jun 4, 2013 6:21:55 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Jun 3, 2013 20:13:53 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

47% of wage earners have no federal income tax liability. I consider that a paid vacation. They should enjoy it while it lasts.

I've been part of the 47%.  I couldn't wait to get the hell out of it.  Let me see, shall I buy soap or shampoo this week?  Prolly shampoo, cause I can also warsh with that, but soap doesn't do well with hair.  Yeah, that was a heck of a "paid" vacation.

And by the way, just because people pay no income tax because they don't make enough to do so, does NOT mean they pay no tax!  Percentage wise they could well pay more taxes than you do.

Finally, I just don't get this crapping on the poor.  There but for the grace of god.....  It really is most unseemly.

it really is.  and i could not have put my sentiments better than this, dem.  and it is 100% true.

[Deleted]

Jun 4, 2013 15:14:45 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jun 3, 2013 18:40:47 GMT -5 @investorbob said:

LOL.  They are also probably not dumb enough to argue with people who have made up their minds regardless of the facts.  That probably goes a long way to promoting personal happiness....

This place is nowhere near as fun as it used to be.  I think I need to take a hiatus.

if you are in one of the states that recently legalized pot, might i offer you a suggestion? 

How about short stay at "Brunei".

[djAdvocate]

Jun 4, 2013 8:13:57 GMT -5 @gdgyva said:

oooooh the poor people

what so many of you fail to freaking see, is that a LOT of them caused their own misery

where is their accountability....

the ones that fail of their own accord are of no interest to me.  but i refuse to throw the rest under the bus because of them.

[djAdvocate]

Jun 4, 2013 9:19:03 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Jun 4, 2013 8:25:29 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Furthermore, not everybody is born smart and good looking, and if one is neither life is just going to be harder, most likely. That is just the way it is. I'm not going to piss on the guy that makes $8.00/ hour because he wants a beer after work too.

  Or into a good family with decent role models. 

It is really easy to say they just need to work harder or do X, Y, Z.  But, the truth is I am smarter than most people, I had decent, hardworking middle class parents that are still married today, we lived in a great neighborhood & I went to a fantastic school, my parents were both were college graduates & pushed me/supported me in school, they helped pay my way through college.  A lot of my success is due to influences and factors outside of my control when I was growing up. 

If I had been born to a uneducated single mom that wasn't around much, didn't care if I did well in school or even attended, we lived in a poor neighborhood, I went to a poor school, I was not as smart so school was a struggle, well then I certainly would not be where I am today. Many people are born a few steps further down the ladder, so they have to work two or three times as hard to get where I got with ease.

As someone else said, There for the grace of God... It makes me sad that some people so lack in empathy that they feel the need to shit on people, who just like the rest of us, are just doing the best they can.

i remember when a good friend of mine lived in the Tenderloin (SF).  we went to get some cheap junk food somewhere down there, and saw homeless people everywhere.  my friend turned to me and said "you are a change of clothes and a shower away from homelessness".  he was exaggerating, but not by much.  if you don't have access to basic things- like a PHYSICAL ADDRESS, for example- how do you fill out a job app?  if you show up smelling like urine, and looking like shit, it is not going to matter if you are PhD.  people don't really understand how fragile our circumstances are, and how much we are at the mercy of forces beyond our control.

i expect a lot of blowback for that last comment, but it is a fact.  it is a fact that most of us never have to experience, fortunately.

[Deleted]

Jun 4, 2013 15:28:41 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jun 4, 2013 9:19:03 GMT -5 Angel! said:

  Or into a good family with decent role models. 

It is really easy to say they just need to work harder or do X, Y, Z.  But, the truth is I am smarter than most people, I had decent, hardworking middle class parents that are still married today, we lived in a great neighborhood & I went to a fantastic school, my parents were both were college graduates & pushed me/supported me in school, they helped pay my way through college.  A lot of my success is due to influences and factors outside of my control when I was growing up. 

If I had been born to a uneducated single mom that wasn't around much, didn't care if I did well in school or even attended, we lived in a poor neighborhood, I went to a poor school, I was not as smart so school was a struggle, well then I certainly would not be where I am today. Many people are born a few steps further down the ladder, so they have to work two or three times as hard to get where I got with ease.

As someone else said, There for the grace of God... It makes me sad that some people so lack in empathy that they feel the need to shit on people, who just like the rest of us, are just doing the best they can.

i remember when a good friend of mine lived in the Tenderloin (SF).  we went to get some cheap junk food somewhere down there, and saw homeless people everywhere.  my friend turned to me and said "you are a change of clothes and a shower away from homelessness".  he was exaggerating, but not by much.  if you don't have access to basic things- like a PHYSICAL ADDRESS, for example- how do you fill out a job app?  if you show up smelling like urine, and looking like shit, it is not going to matter if you are PhD.  people don't really understand how fragile our circumstances are, and how much we are at the mercy of forces beyond our control.

i expect a lot of blowback for that last comment, but it is a fact.  it is a fact that most of us never have to experience, fortunately.

I think most of us in here is decent people and I don't think anybody's saying threw all of them under the bus because they are not capable of taking care of themselves.

Just little difference in opinion how to fix the broken system and empower people for better outcome. That's the way I see it.

[Deleted]

i expect a lot of blowback for that last comment, 

Least not from me dj.

[EVT1]

I'd add that a lot of homeless people have mental problems- and a lot of them are left untreated.

But the other comment is true- everyone is close to the edge- so listen up those sitting in judgment denouncing the welfare people- it might be you on it in a year.  I saw many cases of very high income people about to crash- all it takes is one accident or medical condition to happen.

 

[Politically_Incorrect12]

Jun 4, 2013 17:43:49 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

I'd add that a lot of homeless people have mental problems- and a lot of them are left untreated.

But the other comment is true- everyone is close to the edge- so listen up those sitting in judgment denouncing the welfare people- it might be you on it in a year.  I saw many cases of very high income people about to crash- all it takes is one accident or medical condition to happen.

 

I don't know anybody who is completely against the idea of social safety nets.  The issue is more how many are set up to promote a level of dependency in many cases....and yes, there are politicians that depend on that level of dependency in order to shout about any changes being because a person (or party) doesn't care about the poor.  They do this by not actually addressing the reason a person is using the social safety net program.  Since they do not address this issue, when the person is no longer eligible for the program, they are often living lives just above the eligibility level.  If you live that close to the edge, it does take much to fall back into the net.  I don't have an issue with giving a man a fish to eat for the day, as long as you are also teaching him to fish so that he doesn't stay dependent on you to eat for the rest of his life.

Personally I would like to see more programs with more long term solutions, even if they cost more initially.  There is a difference between a person with skills who is going through a rough patch vs. a person who does not have the skills to move much beyond that rough patch.  If a lack of education and job training is part of the problem, it seems like we should look at investing in some sort of job training programs so that when they are no longer on the program, at least there is some sort of skill to give them a fighting chance.  I'm not saying to train people to become doctors, but there are reasonable paying jobs that require a limited amount of training.  For example, nursing assistants aren't usually going to get rich, but it can get you a job and if you desire a lot of places will pay for RN training after you have been there for a certain amount of time.  There are other similar types jobs that require minimal training to get into, with the opportunity to move up to other things if desired.  Even if something required up to a year of training, it would seem preferable to offering the training to those who qualify in order to hopefully prevent what can become a lifelong issue.

I also think we should consider having relocation funds available in these types of programs.  Maybe a person has a skill that may not be in high demand in one area, but is desired in another area.  It would make sense to attempt to find that person a job in an area where they can find a job.  If the person doesn't want to move, then they will have to get some sort of other training to stay in the program.  If we did relocate a person, I'd want to make sure the person actually had a job before paying for relocation, as we are not wanting to just move people from one area to another only to end up in the same situation.  If somebody keeps needing to be moved around, maybe at that point it's time to consider some sort of additional training. It is basically short term investment to prevent possible long term dependency.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 6, 2013 8:36:20 GMT -5 Politically_Incorrect12 said:

Jun 4, 2013 17:43:49 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

I'd add that a lot of homeless people have mental problems- and a lot of them are left untreated.

But the other comment is true- everyone is close to the edge- so listen up those sitting in judgment denouncing the welfare people- it might be you on it in a year.  I saw many cases of very high income people about to crash- all it takes is one accident or medical condition to happen.

 

I don't know anybody who is completely against the idea of social safety nets.  .

Rand Paul?

[Politically_Incorrect12]

Jul 6, 2013 12:54:21 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jul 6, 2013 8:36:20 GMT -5 Politically_Incorrect12 said:

I don't know anybody who is completely against the idea of social safety nets.  .

Rand Paul?

Honestly don't know enough about any of the man's stances to say one way or another.