Yet another last place finish for America- paid vacations

[Angel!]

Sallie Mae may have changed their policies, that was 9 years ago.  Or maybe it was because I wasn't there long enough to qualify, I didn't work there very long (2-4 months?) before they let me go for my 2 sick days.  I just know during the time I was there I didn't get vacation or sick time & they seriously did not like it if you took an unpaid sick day. 

@gdgyva - what are you trying to prove here?  First you insist they must have been all mom & pop stores & then when that wasn't the case at all you pull up data to somehow prove they are sucky companies or I am lying?  You've seen the stats on the thread that only 77% of employers off vacation & only 50% of low wage workers get vacation.  So I don't see why you are surprised when someone on here has experienced this. 

I wasn't even trying to make the case they should offer vacation, just showing that a lot of employers, and not just the mom & pop employers, don't offer vacation days - which is what the stats say.  Why does this bother you?

[workpublic]

i think it is really funny that the former USSR has half the debt load we do.  i would be surprised if China didn't.  they are about as "socialist" as you get.

not much in the way of social services in those countries these days.

Despite China's Communist government, health care remains largely the responsibility of individuals. Out-of-pocket expenses are extremely high in comparison to average earnings. A single hospital visit nearly matches China's annual income per capita.

abcnews.go.com/International/China/health-care-china-trails-developed-countries-world-news/story?id=12171915

[workpublic]

do you get a w2 or a 1099?

w2 i'm an "employee" of the recruiting firm. they don't offer benefits.

really?

you want me to feel sad for an illegal who isnt getting a vacation?

of course not. i wanted to point out that many workers who are part time or contractors are in the same league as illegals.  we're basically day laborers, except we pay taxes, drive ourselves to work and buy our own lunch.

i'm level 2/3 desktop support. my skills are not a dime a dozen. in fact according to corporate america there is a shortage of skilled IT talent, that's why they need govt subsidies and H1B visas.

[formerroomate99]

I disagree. Since we are biologically programmed to want children (in general) & have the natural ability, then I think it is a birth right.

Most of us are biologically programmed with a desire to repeatedly strike someone who hurts or annoys us, and are perfectly capable of doing so, but society doesn't consider that a birthright, nor do we expect society to pick up the tab if we decide to behave that way. 

[Deleted]

angel


because what you said made no sense to me....

i wanted to verify what i thought to be true

part time workers for the most part do not get benefits

and i did not insist it had to be mom and pop stores...but that was my best guess....

i can also understand why mom and pop operations would not provide benefits

but large companies...especially ones connected to the federal government (sallie mae)

i found that very hard to believe

so i posted what i found....


work....would you say you are compensated at the high, low, or middle tier for your skills?
a friend of mine worked a contract job....firewall security for a top tier governemnt building/agency
he was offered two options when they hired him...contract at a higher rate, or employee at a lower rate but with benefits
he was single....so took the much higher pay...almost a 40k difference in salary
now....he is trying to get them to change him to regular employee since he just got married....

he is having trouble getting them to change that status

[Angel!]

May 29, 2013 14:58:45 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

I disagree. Since we are biologically programmed to want children (in general) & have the natural ability, then I think it is a birth right.

Most of us are biologically programmed with a desire to repeatedly strike someone who hurts or annoys us, and are perfectly capable of doing so, but society doesn't consider that a birthright, nor do we expect society to pick up the tab if we decide to behave that way. 

Interesting....I don't think I have ever had the desire to repeatedly strike someone who annoys me.  I guess different people are different, but it never would have occurred to me to think of that as a birth right since I don't desire it.  I guess some of us are more biologically programmed to be violent than others.

Someone who hurts me or my kids, yes I will hurt them back to protect us, but the law is ok with that.  Reasonable self defense is perfectly acceptable in the eyes of the law & society, so if you want to call that a birth right, then I would agree.

[Angel!]

May 29, 2013 15:01:27 GMT -5 @gdgyva said:

angel


but large companies...especially ones connected to the federal government (sallie mae)

i found that very hard to believe

so i posted what i found....

Fair enough & they may have changed, I don't know.  I would have no interest in ever working there again.  Horrible, mind-numbing job.

And Family Dollar was a crappy company.  If you actually looked at my salary in terms of hours worked, then I barely made above minimum wage.  My assistant managers actually made a better hourly salary than I did.

[The Captain]

May 29, 2013 15:01:27 GMT -5 @gdgyva said:

angel


because what you said made no sense to me....

i wanted to verify what i thought to be true

part time workers for the most part do not get benefits

and i did not insist it had to be mom and pop stores...but that was my best guess....

i can also understand why mom and pop operations would not provide benefits

but large companies...especially ones connected to the federal government (sallie mae)

i found that very hard to believe

so i posted what i found....


work....would you say you are compensated at the high, low, or middle tier for your skills?
a friend of mine worked a contract job....firewall security for a top tier governemnt building/agency
he was offered two options when they hired him...contract at a higher rate, or employee at a lower rate but with benefits
he was single....so took the much higher pay...almost a 40k difference in salary
now....he is trying to get them to change him to regular employee since he just got married....

he is having trouble getting them to change that status

The company your friend is working for is playing games.  Either he is considered an employee (and covered under FICA) or he is not.  The circumstances of employment determine that (and it's not an easy task) not what the employer/employee desires.

"An "employee" must be distinguished from an "independent contractor," as an employer does not generally have employment tax obligations with respect to independent contractors. The IRS for many years relied on a 20-factor test to determine whether individuals are employees or independent contractors ( Rev. Rul. 87-41). 6 However, it has shifted its analysis to focus on a three-part behavioral analysis—behavioral control, financial control, and relationship of the parties ( IRS Pub. 15-A). A worker that may be an independent contractor under this analysis may nevertheless be treated as an employee for FICA and FUTA tax purposes if the worker is classified as a statutory employee ( ¶941B). Either an employer or employee, with or without the other's knowledge or assent, may request that the IRS make a determination as to whether or not a particular worker is an employee. The request is made using Form SS-8."

[workpublic]

work....would you say you are compensated at the high, low, or middle tier for your skills?

the tier is lowering. was $25/$30(w2 contractor) now as low as $11(offered, no takers). I'm making $17.00, no benefits currently. Going on interviews for full time jobs(as they have started to come back) but my age is hurting me. I'm now 53. The impression(incorrect) HR and companies have is that IT is a young person's field.

large corps are firing middle aged and older workers and dumping the workload on whoever is left.
they are blaming "the economy". 

[djAdvocate]

May 29, 2013 12:56:59 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

May 29, 2013 12:42:33 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i think it is really funny that the former USSR has half the debt load we do.  i would be surprised if China didn't.  they are about as "socialist" as you get.

See, that 1 yr maternity leave did them wonders

i am sure the bankruptsy helped too. 

[Deleted]

captain

i thought the same thing

but what he told me is that as a 1099 employee, he has to set his own schedule

he cannot supervise/manage any employees

basically they set the parameters for what needs to be done, and then he does it...but on his timetable

if he would have chosen the employee status at the beginning, his salary would have been much lower, but he would have gotten all the regular things (vacation, 401k, health ins, etc)

he gets none of those....and he has to pay self employed taxes....

he loves what he does....and he is almost guaranteed the job will continue....but now he wants the benefits

[workpublic]

the number one reason in the grand scheme of things called nature or God(whatever you believe in, I believe they are one and the same) any human is born is to procreate. it is the strongest "instinct"
all the rest is superfluous.

[Phoenix84]

Well, last I recall the United States rated first or second on worker productivity, so I guess it's which ranking you'd rather be the top of.  The laziest country or the country with the most vacation. 

Personally I'd rather be known as the country that gets shit done instead of vacationing. 

[Virgil Showlion]

May 29, 2013 15:52:14 GMT -5 workpublic said:

the number one reason in the grand scheme of things called nature or God(whatever you believe in, I believe they are one and the same) any human is born is to procreate. it is the strongest "instinct"
all the rest is superfluous.

Actually, medical science ranks physical needs as follows (from most critical to least critical):

- respiration
- urination
- sleep
- hunger
- thirst
- everything else (including procreation)

Which is to say that if you push a person to a limit on any subset of the above (suppose a man is famished, totally exhausted, and has to go really badly), his brain will first insist that he relieve himself, then it will insist he go to sleep, and then it will insist he eat something, in that order of priority.

Most people refuse to believe that hunger and thirst are so far down on the list, but apparently it's just how we're wired.

[formerroomate99]

Personally, I have no reason to not believe Angel's description of her work history. 
Call center employees are often contractors, and everyone knows that working retail is hell. 

Not wanting to be treated like Angel was motivated me to get a better skillset. 

[Angel!]

May 29, 2013 16:58:16 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

Personally, I have no reason to not believe Angel's description of her work history. 
Call center employees are often contractors, and everyone knows that working retail is hell. 

Not wanting to be treated like Angel was motivated me to get a better skillset. 

Ironically, I believe you and I have the same skillset - civil engineer.  I took all those jobs because my husband was military & I left a good engineering job to follow him to a podunk town with no opportunities.  After spending months looking & applying for jobs in my field, even those that required a large commute, I finally gave up & decided any job was better than no job, which led me down the paths to all these jobs.  I had no interest in being the SAHS of a military guy.  We had no plans of kids in the near future & I was bored & lonely & wanted to earn money.  I even applied at a small company that did taxes thinking maybe it would be a career change & interesting & was told I was too well educated for the job. 

The reason I got hired on at Sallie Mae & WIS is because those two run through employees so fast they will literally hire anyone, so they didn't care I was "too educated". 

I still remember the HR person at Sallie Mae who was in charge of hiring would "axe" people questions  And yet I got let go for have 2 sick days  

[EVT1]

May 29, 2013 16:25:09 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

Well, last I recall the United States rated first or second on worker productivity, so I guess it's which ranking you'd rather be the top of.  The laziest country or the country with the most vacation. 

Personally I'd rather be known as the country that gets shit done instead of vacationing. 

So work 7 days a week- you will get a lot of shit done.

You can put me somewhere in the middle- I value time off.  We will be dead and gone and there will still be plenty of work to do so why waste any extra time on the job?  It is not like we get rewarded for the extra effort in this country- all of the productivity gains turn into $ for not you.

[Deleted]

May 29, 2013 12:36:22 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

May 29, 2013 12:10:22 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Sooo

The other thing I have to point out is that on the list of so called "rich" countries three have already been bailed-out by the IMF and at least 7 others are on the red hot "watch" list.

How's those socialist policies working out for them?

you are cherry picking.  Norway is running a budget surplus, and it is about as "socialist" as you can get.  there are other factors at play that "socialism" doesn't account for.

Yeah, a gov't doesn't have to try hard to have a surplus when it's a major energy exporter. Same goes for Russia. The rest of the world has to pinch a few more pennies.

[djAdvocate]

May 29, 2013 16:25:09 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

Well, last I recall the United States rated first or second on worker productivity, so I guess it's which ranking you'd rather be the top of.  The laziest country or the country with the most vacation. 

Personally I'd rather be known as the country that gets shit done instead of vacationing. 

there is more to life than work.  and that is coming from a guy who has been putting in 60+/week for 20 years, so take it with a grain.  i took my first real vacation EVER last year, and i loved it.  but it was hard to NOT WORK.

[Phoenix84]

Come on DJ, you own three businesses .  Aren't you proud of all you've accomplished? 

I'm not saying vacation or taking time off is a bad thing, but there are worse things to be #1 for than being the hardest working country.  Why should we be ashamed of a strong work ethic among Americans.

[djAdvocate]

May 29, 2013 19:35:28 GMT -5 @investorbob said:

May 29, 2013 12:36:22 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

you are cherry picking.  Norway is running a budget surplus, and it is about as "socialist" as you can get.  there are other factors at play that "socialism" doesn't account for.

Yeah, a gov't doesn't have to try hard to have a surplus when it's a major energy exporter. Same goes for Russia. The rest of the world has to pinch a few more pennies.

Korea has also consistently had surpluses.  they are a net importer of oil, just like us.

and mind you, Norway doesn't just have a surplus- they have a 15.3% surplus.  you know- like 1.5x the worst our deficits ever got?

ib- didn't you recently say that you were projecting we would become a net exporter of oil?  or was that someone else?

i really want us to stop making excuses for our deficits.  there is no excuse.  we need to raise taxes and cut spending.  period.

[djAdvocate]

May 29, 2013 23:33:24 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

Come on DJ, you own three businesses .  Aren't you proud of all you've accomplished? 

i did very well running company #1 from 1992 to 1999.  i did very well running company #2 from 2010 to today.
i have not done very well at running either company during the rest of the time they were in business.
but i DID have a son to raise, and i enjoyed that.  i could have done better, but i gave it my best shot.

I'm not saying vacation or taking time off is a bad thing, but there are worse things to be #1 for than being the hardest working country.  Why should we be ashamed of a strong work ethic among Americans.

oh, i agree.  i just think there are better things to do than work.  doubly true if you are not an owner. 

[Phoenix84]

I think one of these days DJ will look upon all his mighty works and despair

[djAdvocate]

May 29, 2013 23:50:29 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

I think one of these days DJ will look upon all his mighty works and despair

ok, that did it.  i have to watch Citizen Kane again. 

[Virgil Showlion]

May 29, 2013 23:51:24 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

May 29, 2013 23:50:29 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

I think one of these days DJ will look upon all his mighty works and despair

ok, that did it.  i have to watch Citizen Kane again. 

Is there really such a thing as watching that movie "again"?

I've never met anybody who didn't learn their lesson the first time.

[Deleted]

I've heard such predictions, but I doubt the will ever come true unless our oil use drops a lot. Net exporter of energy doesn't sound quite as far fetched.

I wasn't making excuses for deficits so much as pointing out that being awash in oil royalties and taxes makes it a heck of a lot easier to pay for lots of social services withou going into debt. Of course, when that dries up, you're in trouble.

[Deleted]

May 29, 2013 18:24:18 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

May 29, 2013 16:25:09 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

Well, last I recall the United States rated first or second on worker productivity, so I guess it's which ranking you'd rather be the top of.  The laziest country or the country with the most vacation. 

Personally I'd rather be known as the country that gets shit done instead of vacationing. 

So work 7 days a week- you will get a lot of shit done.

You can put me somewhere in the middle- I value time off.  We will be dead and gone and there will still be plenty of work to do so why waste any extra time on the job?  It is not like we get rewarded for the extra effort in this country- all of the productivity gains turn into $ for not you.

i couldnt disagree more

my employees get semi annual reviews....and know where they are doing well, and where they need to improve

and those that produce are recognized...and given more responsibility...and yes, more money

not sure what kind of company you work for....but it works that way in MOST places

is hard work ALWAYS recognized....no

but does that hard work payoff in the long run.....my experience tells me almost always

it is the american way...work hard and succeed....you must have been absent that day in school

i think most here call it "paying your dues"

[Miss Tequila]

May 29, 2013 12:36:22 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

May 29, 2013 12:10:22 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Sooo

The other thing I have to point out is that on the list of so called "rich" countries three have already been bailed-out by the IMF and at least 7 others are on the red hot "watch" list.

How's those socialist policies working out for them?

you are cherry picking.  Norway is running a budget surplus, and it is about as "socialist" as you can get.  there are other factors at play that "socialism" doesn't account for.

Norway is sitting on a shitload of oil so no matter how fucked up their business practices are, they are still rolling in the money.  That won't work in america

[djAdvocate]

May 30, 2013 5:13:38 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

May 29, 2013 23:51:24 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

ok, that did it.  i have to watch Citizen Kane again. 

Is there really such a thing as watching that movie "again"?

I've never met anybody who didn't learn their lesson the first time.

you have GOT to be kidding. 

[djAdvocate]

May 30, 2013 10:05:30 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

May 29, 2013 12:36:22 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

you are cherry picking.  Norway is running a budget surplus, and it is about as "socialist" as you can get.  there are other factors at play that "socialism" doesn't account for.

Norway is sitting on a shitload of oil so no matter how fucked up their business practices are, they are still rolling in the money.  That won't work in america

Korea also has a balanced budget and is and IMPORTER of oil.  how does that square up with your thinking?