Yet another last place finish for America- paid vacations

[EVT1]

lifeinc.today.com/_news/2013/05/28/18473813-no-paid-vacation-you-must-be-an-american?lite

" The United States is the only advanced economy in the world that does not guarantee its workers paid vacation....The researchers found that every country they examined, except the United States, had laws requiring employers to offer somewhere between 10 and 30 paid vacation days a year"

Nuff said- but no surprise considering we feel the same way about providing health care. Do we just collectively not give a shit about each other or what? Or I should say- collectively not give a shit about the low wage workers that do the things we would rather not do- since they are the ones getting hammered on things like this. When did we become this way? At one point workers had some power- and now it is worker against worker for the benefit of neither.

"'I don’t know of any compelling reason why the government has to decide for people in what way they want to get paid,'said Andrew Biggs, a resident scholar the the conservative-leaning American Enterprise Institute."

Way to spin that one- the big bad government interfering with one lowly employee trying to negotiate time off with some behemoth corporation. It isn't like those jobs are take it or leave it- oh wait- they are. Negotiation and employment contracts are for the C suite and a few unions. IMO any employer that doesn't allow vacation time is a scuzzball. Why not add a clause to the min. wage law requiring a min. time off allottment? We mandate holidays- can't we just give them a week? That too much to ask?

[whoisjohngalt]

Yep, let govt regulate one more thing, since they are doing so great regulating everything else.

Once again, we cry a river about all those rights - when was the last time we took on some responsibilities??

[djAdvocate]

when was the last time we took a vacation? 

[EVT1]

Come on- that would be such a minor regulation.  Something along the lines of-  'after one year of full time employment employers are required to provide 5 paid vacation days to be scheduled no later than the following anniversary'

Big deal right- but it sure as shit is a big deal to them- everyone needs a break.

So that costs a whopping $290 at minimum wage.  The horror- I suppose employers will naturally start firing their full time workers at 11 month/29 days to avoid the horrendous anti-business, draconian regulations- or switch to part time only.

This isn't even a pro-worker law, it is an anti-shitty employer law. 

Who are these people anyway- I have never worked a job that did not offer vacation time.  Has anyone here?  Maybe that's the problem- the assholes making the laws cannot fathom the work conditions some people endure here and feel it isn't a real issue. 

[Deleted]

do you know of someone who doesnt get a vacation at their current job?

it may not be in the law....but i know of no company that doesnt give them

[EVT1]

No- but the figure was 77% of employers offer paid vacation days or holidays- has to be somebody.

What I think is worse:

     John Schmitt, senior economist at CEPR and co-author of the report, notes that in the 1970s U.S. leave policies were roughly on a par with comparably rich European countries. Since then, other nations have left us in the dust, a trend he attributes in part to rising income inequality in the U.S.


"A key issue is that we're a more unequal society than all of the countries we looked at, and that creates a different work environment where people feel they may be penalized for taking time off," Schmitt said in an interview.

In the states, that fear at least partly reflects the widening gap between what top corporate managers earn and what rank-and-file workers bring home, Schmitt suggested. In the U.S., where corporate culture often seems to equate taking time off with slacking, many employees feel they are effectively penalized for going on vacation, as promotions and other rewards go to people more able and willing to work around the clock.


By contrast, there tends to be less reluctance to take a break in countries where mid- and even lower-level employees don't earn significantly less than higher ranking staff. In other words, even if your cubicle mate gets that plum position by burning the midnight oil, chances are you're stilling earning a decent wage.


"There's a fear factor around using vacation" in the U.S. said Schmitt, who traces the lack of progress on leave policies to a broader erosion in health care, retirement and other employees benefits over the last three decades. "We haven't internalized the idea that paid time off and paid holiday and sick days are what we think of as part of a job."


Now that I have seen- the corporate frown on vacation time- earned or not.

[fairlycrazy23]

Yes that is too much to ask. If you want paid vacation only work for companies that pay vacation.

[djAdvocate]

May 28, 2013 21:59:44 GMT -5 fairlycrazy23 said:

Yes that is too much to ask. If you want paid vacation only work for companies that pay vacation.

it would be cool if there were lists of companies that didn't offer PV so i could boycott them. 

[whoisjohngalt]

May 28, 2013 20:43:09 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Come on- that would be such a minor regulation.  Something along the lines of-  'after one year of full time employment employers are required to provide 5 paid vacation days to be scheduled no later than the following anniversary'

Big deal right- but it sure as shit is a big deal to them- everyone needs a break.

So that costs a whopping $290 at minimum wage.  The horror- I suppose employers will naturally start firing their full time workers at 11 month/29 days to avoid the horrendous anti-business, draconian regulations- or switch to part time only.

This isn't even a pro-worker law, it is an anti-shitty employer law. 

Who are these people anyway- I have never worked a job that did not offer vacation time.  Has anyone here?  Maybe that's the problem- the assholes making the laws cannot fathom the work conditions some people endure here and feel it isn't a real issue. 

First of all, minor regulations never stay minor.  they become major.  Second,   there are always people complaining about all kinds of job-related things.  pretty soon companies won't be able to sneeze without having some govt regulation regulating it all. 

Don't we already have one million and one all kinds of labor laws to protect everyone under the sun?

[EVT1]

May 28, 2013 22:17:10 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

May 28, 2013 21:59:44 GMT -5 fairlycrazy23 said:

Yes that is too much to ask. If you want paid vacation only work for companies that pay vacation.

it would be cool if there were lists of companies that didn't offer PV so i could boycott them. 

No kidding.  As I said on another post- it is up to the people to define the rules of business.  The basic floor- the basic package.  It is a shame we are so against regulation here- which as a byproduct it comes as no surprise companies regularly cause the death of citizens wihout consequences.

Please anyone- explain the changes to the Clean Water Act by Bush.  Show me how he did not suck the dick of the mining industry.


(Not to mention the other dicks)

But as far as voting with your money- shop at Publix (employee owned- a totally foreign concept to hardcore wingers), Costco (on the stock exchange and does very well considering they have pretty much the highest paid employees for their positions.)  Boycot Wally.

The first real job I had- there was a profit sharing plan- you want to see dedicated people? Same idea.

[tallguy]

The city of Seattle last year enacted a mandatory sick-leave law for companies in the city.  Republicans in the state Senate are trying to repeal it.  What a surprise.  

[Deleted]

Way to spin that one-

Yes, as usual, you did do a great job spinning a great story.

Speaking of, we were also just voted the 6th happiest country in the industrialized world.  Considering there's not a huge difference from one country to the next, I guess we're not doing all that bad.

Now if you would like, we could discuss how paid vacations are considered part of a person's pay.  In other words, getting paid vacations simply means less pay per hour.  So in the end, a paid day off vs an upaid day off doesn't necessarily mean more money.  Contrary, no paid days off could mean more money for someone who would rather work than take vacation.

[The Captain]

Here's a different view...

Instead of demanding companies give more to those who have a low skill set, consider demanding that those with a low skill set improve their skills so they are more desirable to companies who are willing to give more for valuable skills...

Of course it's easier to blame the big evil corporations rather than the individual who is unwilling to invest in themselves.

[workpublic]

do you know of someone who doesnt get a vacation at their current job?

yes, me(and mostly all the other contractors in corporate America)
also illegal immigrant day laborers

it may not be in the law....but i know of no company that doesnt give them.

every IT recruiter i've ever worked for.

some offer PTO. where you bank money and pay yourself for time off(holidays, sick,vacation)

wake up folks. it's coming your way. And if not to you, your kids.


Of course it's easier to blame the big evil corporations rather than the individual who is unwilling to invest in themselves

i "invested in myself" i have a high skill job. they just don't want to pay or provide perks. and they don't have to in this job climate

[workpublic]

Don't we already have one million and one all kinds of labor laws to protect everyone under the sun?

except white males.

[Deleted]

wake up folks. it's coming your way. And if not to you, your kids.

Banking PTO and "paying yourself" for vacation is no different in practice than simple paid vacation.  But what it does is make the economics of vacation time clearer to the employee.  Plus if it's "banked", that generally means at some point there is the option to take the pay instead of the vacation.

[Deleted]

May 28, 2013 19:44:33 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

when was the last time we took a vacation? 

I took one in February. I've taken a couple days here and there. I still have a solid 3+ weeks of PAID vacation left to take.

Paid vacation is out there and other than my part time jobs when I was a teenager...I've never had a job that didn't have paid vacation....but I get what you're saying.

[Deleted]

May 29, 2013 8:46:33 GMT -5 workpublic said:

do you know of someone who doesnt get a vacation at their current job?

yes, me(and mostly all the other contractors in corporate America)
also illegal immigrant day laborers

it may not be in the law....but i know of no company that doesnt give them.

every IT recruiter i've ever worked for.

some offer PTO. where you bank money and pay yourself for time off(holidays, sick,vacation)

wake up folks. it's coming your way. And if not to you, your kids.


Of course it's easier to blame the big evil corporations rather than the individual who is unwilling to invest in themselves

i "invested in myself" i have a high skill job. they just don't want to pay or provide perks. and they don't have to in this job climate

you said it

you are a "contract" employee

you work for yourself....

do you get a w2 or a 1099?

contract employees by law "work for themselves" 

why wouldnt you give yourself a vacation?

[Deleted]

yes, me(and mostly all the other contractors in corporate America)
also illegal immigrant day laborers


really?

you want me to feel sad for an illegal who isnt getting a vacation?

how about he/she get in line with the rest who come to this country the legal way

he/she get a job as a w2 wage worker, and then they can "earn" their vacation just like the rest of us

as far as all the contract employees....maybe it is time you all got together and decide that you need the "protection of the corporation"

i would guesstimate that 99% of w2 earners in this country are offered vacation days

[djAdvocate]

May 29, 2013 6:58:33 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Here's a different view...

Instead of demanding companies give more to those who have a low skill set.

who said anything about a low skill set?

[djAdvocate]

May 29, 2013 9:15:38 GMT -5 @financialtexan said:

May 28, 2013 19:44:33 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

when was the last time we took a vacation? 

I took one in February. I've taken a couple days here and there. I still have a solid 3+ weeks of PAID vacation left to take.

Paid vacation is out there and other than my part time jobs when I was a teenager...I've never had a job that didn't have paid vacation....but I get what you're saying.

i meant this collectively, as in "why don't we all just go away".....

[busymom]

Even if your company offers paid vacation days, good luck getting them. 


DH "technically" gets vacation time, but he always needs prior approval.  It amazes me how often corporate says no.  It's not like he asks for time off over, for example, a holiday weekend.  And, his company has the "use it or lose it" policy.  Sooo, guess who gets cheated out of at least some of his days each year. 

[djAdvocate]

May 29, 2013 9:31:48 GMT -5 @gdgyva said:

yes, me(and mostly all the other contractors in corporate America)
also illegal immigrant day laborers


really?

you want me to feel sad for an illegal who isnt getting a vacation?

no, i want you to feel sad for a working mother who has zero days of PAID maternity leave.

[Deleted]

dj

sorry....

i will hold her job for 6 weeks and fill in as best i can manage it

she can use her 1-2 weeks of vacation time as PAID if she has any left/unused

rest is up to her and her family to cover

nfw i am giving someone 6 weeks paid time off so they can have a child.....

that again is their CHOICE....

i have given employees a few months on the fmla act to deal with whatever....i will try to accommodate as best as i can

[whoisjohngalt]

May 29, 2013 9:54:18 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

May 29, 2013 9:31:48 GMT -5 @gdgyva said:

yes, me(and mostly all the other contractors in corporate America)
also illegal immigrant day laborers


really?

you want me to feel sad for an illegal who isnt getting a vacation?

no, i want you to feel sad for a working mother who has zero days of PAID maternity leave.

Ummm, OK, taking care of an infant is not exactly a vacation.  Two very different things and arguments

[Deleted]

I've always considered paid vacation as part of the compensation package.  There is only X amount of dollars available for any position in any company.  The more dedicated the employee, the closer you should be paid (in any form) to that upper limit.  If any one thinks that paid vacation isn't part of an employees yearly cost to a company and some money magic is going to happen, it's not.  That person is just naive.

[Virgil Showlion]

Not guaranteeing paid vacation either results in higher productivity--in which case it gives America an edge in productivity per worker--or it contributes to worker stress sufficiently to lower productivity--in which case businesses that don't offer their employees paid vacation are putting themselves at a disadvantage, both competitively and from a public relations standpoint.

If the former is true, the government would be stepping in to eliminate an American competitive edge. If the latter is true, government action is redundant since survival of the fittest will slowly but surely eliminate companies that don't offer their workers paid vacation.

Either way, the government isn't needed. Given the fearful speed at which Europe is presently melting down, I would think the last thing Americans want is government policies that make America more like Europe.

[formerroomate99]

May 29, 2013 8:46:33 GMT -5 workpublic said:

do you know of someone who doesnt get a vacation at their current job?

yes, me(and mostly all the other contractors in corporate America)
also illegal immigrant day laborers

it may not be in the law....but i know of no company that doesnt give them.

every IT recruiter i've ever worked for.

some offer PTO. where you bank money and pay yourself for time off(holidays, sick,vacation)

wake up folks. it's coming your way. And if not to you, your kids.


Of course it's easier to blame the big evil corporations rather than the individual who is unwilling to invest in themselves

i "invested in myself" i have a high skill job. they just don't want to pay or provide perks. and they don't have to in this job climate

I also work in IT, but every job I've had has been temp to perm, where I was a contractor for a few months before being converted to a 9-5 regular employee with paid vacation and am kept around even when things get a little slow.  Now, if I were willing to play the contractor schuffle, I could come close to doubling my salary, but with three preschool aged children and a stay at home dad at home, I value the security and shorter hours over the extra money. 

I'm not sure what your skillset is, but if you're smart enough to do any kind of IT, then even if your particular skillset is a dime a dozen, you should be able to train for something that will prompt employers to hire you on as a real employee and give you the security and benefits you want.  But you might have to take lower pay to get it.  At any rate, I wish you all the best. 

[The Captain]

May 29, 2013 9:52:24 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

May 29, 2013 6:58:33 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Here's a different view...

Instead of demanding companies give more to those who have a low skill set.

who said anything about a low skill set?

A majority of the time low wage workers have limited skill sets.  The very study cited by the article states:

"According to the same government survey data, only half of low-wage workers (bottom fourth of earners) have any paid vacation (49 percent), compared to 90 percent of high-wage workers (top fourth of earners). The same is true for part-timers, who are far less likely to have paid vacations (35 percent) than are full-timers (91 percent)."

www.cepr.net/documents/publications/no-vacation-update-2013-05.pdf

Now if you know of any industry where a majority of the workers have a highly developed skill set but low wages then I'll admit my assumption may be wrong, but in my experience low skills and low wages often go hand in hand.  There may be outliers of course, but I don't think that's the case a majority of the time.

[djAdvocate]

May 29, 2013 11:26:09 GMT -5 The Captain said:

May 29, 2013 9:52:24 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

who said anything about a low skill set?

A majority of the time low wage workers have limited skill sets.  The very study cited by the article states:

"According to the same government survey data, only half of low-wage workers (bottom fourth of earners) have any paid vacation (49 percent), compared to 90 percent of high-wage workers (top fourth of earners). The same is true for part-timers, who are far less likely to have paid vacations (35 percent) than are full-timers (91 percent)."

www.cepr.net/documents/publications/no-vacation-update-2013-05.pdf

ok, thanks.