Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on May 12, 2013 11:24:09 GMT -5
Talk to her and lie - say a friend of yours witnessed the fight at the store. Say you don't know many details because details may give away that it was her friend. She may have exaggerated to her friend so you don't want to out her with details. Say you are here to listen if she wants to talk, but don't pressure her to talk. I think that is a great idea! My friend so-and-so saw you at Walgreen's and BF was screaming at you. Friend so-and-so was very upset and concerned, and called me to report this. Then ask DD what was going on. Tell her NO ONE has the right to treat her that way, for any reason. He is young, and it could very well be that he simply does not know how to have a healthy relationship. Tell him too, friend so-and-so saw you screaming at DD, and it is unacceptable.
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Queen of Interesting Nuts
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Post by Queen of Interesting Nuts on May 12, 2013 13:01:11 GMT -5
She doesn't want to move home, I have no problem with it but it will be up to her in the end. She is going to do part time work and go to school full time, that is going to be her main agenda for now. She is getting grants and a small student loan to make up the difference in living expenses. She has no credit cards or other loans so in reality her outgo at this point is quite low, half the rent and half the utilities and obviously gas and food etc. I told her that I would get her books. I won't be giving her money to pay any of her living expensives in that way but I am sure I will buy her clothes etc when I want to for her birthday and others. I won't be paying her living stuff.
As she has only been with him a year and she had already moved out when they met I don't know him too well so I am still trying to figure him out. I want to believe his outbursts are teenage/maturity issues, but I am also aware that it could be much deeper than that. So I don't know, it is a difficult road to travel I think.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2013 13:10:42 GMT -5
As she has only been with him a year and she had already moved out when they met I don't know him too well so I am still trying to figure him out. I want to believe his outbursts are teenage/maturity issues, but I am also aware that it could be much deeper than that. So I don't know, it is a difficult road to travel I think. Not your job to figure it out. I say this as someone who spent too much of my life putting up with crap from people and trying to keep the peace, trying to be nice, avoiding confrontations, etc. DD needs to set boundaries and know what behavior is unacceptable from ANYONE- Baby Daddy, family member, boss at work, even her own kid when it gets old enough to misbehave. Otherwise she's walking around with a giant "Kick Me" sign on her back and there are people who will kick her. Focus on helping her. If he cleans up his act (I'm not holding my breath), fine, but whatever the cause, if he continues to act like a spoiled child she needs to learn to put on her big girl panties and tell him she won't put up with his crap.
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on May 12, 2013 13:13:18 GMT -5
Well I am sure it was a figure of speech but still knowing what I know from before what she said at that time really made me think. But you don't know it was just a figure of speech. He could be dead-serious - you should be getting her away from him (at least for now) til they both can calm down and discuss what's really going on.
If this is an ongoing behavior for him, it's not safe for her - especially now that she's pregnant - there's 2 lives at stake here.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2013 13:18:11 GMT -5
It's too bad the families have gotten so involved this early in the pregnancy. I didn't realize that she might want to terminate, which would have been a lot easier if no one knew about it. Now she has to deal with everyone's reactions if she does. You might speak with her, on her own, and see if she would like to do that and move back home. Or keep the kid and move back home. If she keeps the kid then she will have to deal with him, and his family, for a very long time. Leaving aside the issue of whether yelling is appropriate I would have zero desire to raise a child with someone who can't find his way to an OB's office without screaming and having shitfit. Whether or not they stay together they need some communication and anger management training. I think people can change if the pattern of behavior is interrupted early. Naggie - you don't have to answer but how did this pregnancy come about? Accident? Planned? Not preventing no man's land? It just seems like there's a lot of immaturity here.
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on May 12, 2013 13:23:37 GMT -5
Whether or not they stay together they need some communication and anger management training.
It's possible - but also in a lot of cases, the person with the anger issues gets even MORE hostile and defensive due to outside interference - and then the behavior escalates.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 12, 2013 14:43:44 GMT -5
Whether or not they stay together they need some communication and anger management training. It's possible - but also in a lot of cases, the person with the anger issues gets even MORE hostile and defensive due to outside interference - and then the behavior escalates.I wonder if some of the escalation recently seen is more due to the stress of pregnancy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2013 15:19:54 GMT -5
Or all the parental input from all sides....
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on May 12, 2013 15:31:29 GMT -5
Naggie-
Can you put together a list of all the resources in town for your daughter-hotlines, women's shelters, catholic charities, the united way, pregnancy crisis centers-and just give that list to her WITHOUT discussing it?
Honestly, I think that's the most useful information she can have right now.
It will be up to your daughter to make the call, but at least if she wants to get out or get some input from someone other than family-she's got a place to start.
At 18, I wouldn't have thought to start calling around to all these places. I used the college I was going to as a starting point to get me the help I needed. Right now, though, your daughter doesn't have that option...
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Queen of Interesting Nuts
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Post by Queen of Interesting Nuts on May 12, 2013 15:38:31 GMT -5
There is parental involvement but there is no parental INPUT from my side. I have no idea what his side has done or said to him or what they are doing apart from what they have said to me.
Right now I am being a very supportive mother and letting her lead the way of conversations. I know for a fact that she knows what having a baby is like, maybe not quite as much as now it will her own but I don't have any concerns at the moment of her ability.
I have not lead her in any way to do anything she doesn't want, we have quiet and calm conversations. I don't think everything we talk about has to be negative in fact I try to keep everything in a positive manner even though the subject matter might be serious at the time.
As I said I can't possibly remember and post everything but something is in the back of my mind about him that I can't quite put my finger on. I will continue to be as positive with them both unless something occurs otherwise.
She is being very mature in our conversations. I am proud of her for that.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on May 12, 2013 15:56:13 GMT -5
In your situation I actually would ask them both to move in, but that's me. I wouldn't. the BF already knows he's being watched, if he IS an abuser as opposed to someone who grew up watching abuse and considering it to be normal, I see him pushing naggie to test her reaction and then turning on her. just my two cents. ETA: besides this, where's the immediate escape path if he's already living there? naggie, I'm sorry you have to deal with this. you've gotten some good advice in here so far, I hope everything works out okay and your relationship with your daughter remains intact.
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Queen of Interesting Nuts
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Post by Queen of Interesting Nuts on May 12, 2013 16:02:06 GMT -5
Thanks Chiver, that is my main concern that DD and I can continue with our relationship intact. I really don't think DH wants him living here, if push came to shove DD can move back but he is not real excited about wanting him and her to live here. I had a great mother's day lunch with DS, DD and DH, it was great and not one time didn't anyone's phone come out (harking back to another post heheheh). It was great and relaxing. I will see her tomorrow.
Thank you everyone from the bottom of my heart. It feels good to be able to talk about it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2013 16:20:22 GMT -5
Naggie I have no advice, but I am so sorry you are going through this. You may remember my DH is a Brit so I have always had a soft spot for you.
I am pro-choice. I have to be honest here and say that I probably would have encouraged my DD to terminate the pregnancy, ASAP. No education, little prospects for evolution at her job, very "iffy" dad, and a relatively short-term relationship. I know she's at 12 weeks now and that is indeed different. But, as others have said, it is still an option.
I DO know that being pro-choice is not anodyne. But I still think sometimes it's a better option than not pursuing an education and / or having to deal with that "young dad" for the rest of their lives. I know you want to help your DD pursue her education, and that's great. But, in reality, you don't know if that's feasible or not.
Also, guess what, it doesn't even stop when the kid turns 18. The parents are linked FOR LIFE, on some level. I know this because I am divorced from the bio-dad of my three older kids. Sometimes, like it or not, we STILL need to deal with each other, and those kids are 20, 24 and 26 now.
Naggie I wish you and your family the best in these difficult times.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2013 16:37:40 GMT -5
Naggie, know I'm not trying to be mean/ sarcastic/ whatever other negative word is out there.... I do want to challenge you to think broadly in the matter, so I'm throwing out viewpoints/ issues you may not have considered.
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Queen of Interesting Nuts
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Post by Queen of Interesting Nuts on May 12, 2013 16:45:21 GMT -5
Thanks Debt for your support....tears are flowing but I know we can get through this. I am pro choice and we have had lots of discussions before this and during this time. I will still try to bring it up gently, but in the end she is going to do what she wants to do. We have discussed ad nauseam the pro and cons of everything. I will impress on her that time is running out for an abortion.
I am trying to be very sensitive to others on here that are pro life, I understand we all don't think the same so please this is OUR REALITY so I hope we can forgo a discussion on the topic of abortion on this thread.
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Queen of Interesting Nuts
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Post by Queen of Interesting Nuts on May 12, 2013 16:48:02 GMT -5
Thanks Oped, of course I don't think that of you. I really am trying to get the whole picture and other opinions. There are a few posters that will get my back up but you have been nothing but kind and I thank you. There have been other life changing events for me, this is a big one. I am overwhelmed, I want to support my daughter, that is my biggest goal. All the other stuff I am trying to get through the way I know how. It may mean I make a mistake or two but I am doing the best I can.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2013 19:34:50 GMT -5
Making mistakes is just part of being human naggie. None of us are perfect. Doing the best you can is all you can do. Don't get so overwhelmed that you neglect yourself. You won't be able to help your daughter or anyone else if you don't take care of yourself. Be kind and loving to naggie too!
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 12, 2013 20:43:03 GMT -5
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Queen of Interesting Nuts
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Post by Queen of Interesting Nuts on May 12, 2013 20:56:19 GMT -5
Thanks Zib back at ya hon.
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justme
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Post by justme on May 12, 2013 21:49:30 GMT -5
It's too bad the families have gotten so involved this early in the pregnancy. I didn't realize that she might want to terminate, which would have been a lot easier if no one knew about it. Now she has to deal with everyone's reactions if she does. You might speak with her, on her own, and see if she would like to do that and move back home. Or keep the kid and move back home. If she keeps the kid then she will have to deal with him, and his family, for a very long time. Leaving aside the issue of whether yelling is appropriate I would have zero desire to raise a child with someone who can't find his way to an OB's office without screaming and having shitfit. Whether or not they stay together they need some communication and anger management training. I think people can change if the pattern of behavior is interrupted early. Naggie - you don't have to answer but how did this pregnancy come about? Accident? Planned? Not preventing no man's land? It just seems like there's a lot of immaturity here. Miscarriages still happen after 12 weeks - and there's not a damn way someone can prove otherwise unless the daughter allowed them too. The only loophole is someone seeing her go into a clinic - and realistically if her being threatened is a problem you'd go out of town to take care of that. I think this would be one case where I would tell my daughter to lie her ass off if an abortion is what she really wants. ETA I would also help her find a clinic that did other services so if someone saw her she could just say she had spotting/cramps and went there because it was closer to where she was than a hospital.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2013 21:51:16 GMT -5
You need to give her complete support for leaving the emotionally abusive BF. It is only time before the outbursts become physical. You don't have to tell her you know anything, but that you are concerned about the outbursts he exhibits. Tell her that you also know that she will make excuses for BF, but that you know better. She needs to get out and NOT get married. That won't make anything better, it will just make her "his property" in his eyes.
Get in the way. Be unpopular, evil mom. It is worth it. I waited too long & my DD and her kids were a wreck as a result. It has taken almost 3 years to get them back to "normal" and it is just a functioning normal, not regular normal. She was married, so it took a ton of money to get her out of it & a ton of abuse before the court would intervene. DO NOT let her go that far.
Show her the Violence Wheel, Domestic Abuse (google it).
Good Luck. You will have to be very strong to do this & have your husband on board.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on May 12, 2013 21:58:47 GMT -5
rockit,
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lurkyloo
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Post by lurkyloo on May 12, 2013 22:42:49 GMT -5
(psst debt: I think you must be talking about RU-486, not the morning-after pill if your daughter knew she was pregnant. The morning-after pill is only effective within 72 hours; if she had a positive pregnancy test and an appointment for the next week it was already too late for that. either way, I'm glad she knew her own mind and had the option available to her.)
naggie: I'm sorry for all you're going through. It's tough to accept that sometimes you have to step back and let your child make her own decisions, especially when you have to position yourself to be there for her depending on the consequences of her decisions. It sounds like she could really use some space from the BF to consider things and make up her own mind. Any chance you could take her away for a girls' weekend or something of the sort to give her some breathing room and time to think?
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on May 12, 2013 23:20:25 GMT -5
It's too bad the families have gotten so involved this early in the pregnancy. I didn't realize that she might want to terminate, which would have been a lot easier if no one knew about it. Now she has to deal with everyone's reactions if she does. You might speak with her, on her own, and see if she would like to do that and move back home. Or keep the kid and move back home. If she keeps the kid then she will have to deal with him, and his family, for a very long time. Leaving aside the issue of whether yelling is appropriate I would have zero desire to raise a child with someone who can't find his way to an OB's office without screaming and having shitfit. Whether or not they stay together they need some communication and anger management training. I think people can change if the pattern of behavior is interrupted early. Naggie - you don't have to answer but how did this pregnancy come about? Accident? Planned? Not preventing no man's land? It just seems like there's a lot of immaturity here. Miscarriages still happen after 12 weeks - and there's not a damn way someone can prove otherwise unless the daughter allowed them too. The only loophole is someone seeing her go into a clinic - and realistically if her being threatened is a problem you'd go out of town to take care of that. I think this would be one case where I would tell my daughter to lie her ass off if an abortion is what she really wants. ETA I would also help her find a clinic that did other services so if someone saw her she could just say she had spotting/cramps and went there because it was closer to where she was than a hospital. Nothing good ever comes from lying.
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justme
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Post by justme on May 12, 2013 23:34:03 GMT -5
Miscarriages still happen after 12 weeks - and there's not a damn way someone can prove otherwise unless the daughter allowed them too. The only loophole is someone seeing her go into a clinic - and realistically if her being threatened is a problem you'd go out of town to take care of that. I think this would be one case where I would tell my daughter to lie her ass off if an abortion is what she really wants. ETA I would also help her find a clinic that did other services so if someone saw her she could just say she had spotting/cramps and went there because it was closer to where she was than a hospital. Nothing good ever comes from lying. Sorry, I disagree. If lying gets you out of having a kid you don't want with a guy that's abusive then lying is 100% good in that case. Hell, even if it's a kid you would want except it's with an abusive guy than it's good. Assuming that's her choice of course. But if a guy threatened to kill me if I aborted his kid the first thing I would do is have the abortion and the second I would do is lie my ass off to him and blame it on a miscarriage - probably followed closely by moving or a restraining order.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on May 12, 2013 23:43:33 GMT -5
Sorry, i think that is a very poor approach. She can do whatever she pleases but there is no need to start weaving a web of lies.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 13, 2013 6:37:29 GMT -5
Years ago my youngest aunt married very young. Right after high school. To a man who increasingly became abusive. This was when women"stuck it out" including a very religious upbringing into the mix. I'm not sure my mom and dad were married, yet, but they were together and my dad flew my aunt out and arranged for her to have an abortion. When they were still illegal. Found a desperately poor intern and paid big bucks for it. Had to be done in the apartment, either my moms or theirs, not sure which. He also paid for her divorce. Had she not gotten the abortion, she could have never been free to go on with her life free of an abuser. My aunt went on to get a college degree and then her masters and taught for many years and had children. But sadly enough, married another abuser, just an emotional one, to serve "penance" for her crime. So if your DD is smart enough to see the writing on the wall and get out and get this situation taken care of, she may need counseling not only for having an abortion but why she feels the need to pick losers and abusers or she will continue the process.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2013 7:44:22 GMT -5
Miscarriages still happen after 12 weeks - and there's not a damn way someone can prove otherwise unless the daughter allowed them too. The only loophole is someone seeing her go into a clinic - and realistically if her being threatened is a problem you'd go out of town to take care of that. I think this would be one case where I would tell my daughter to lie her ass off if an abortion is what she really wants. ETA I would also help her find a clinic that did other services so if someone saw her she could just say she had spotting/cramps and went there because it was closer to where she was than a hospital. Nothing good ever comes from lying. The world is built on lies. Most of them are the "little white ones", but falling back on that old saying is avoiding a real debate on why you think it is wrong. Stretch yourself a little and explain what the consequences could be in this case from lying.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 13, 2013 8:47:23 GMT -5
None at all that I can see. His parents see someone supporting their loser of a son. Win-win for them.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on May 13, 2013 14:38:15 GMT -5
Nothing good ever comes from lying. The world is built on lies. Most of them are the "little white ones", but falling back on that old saying is avoiding a real debate on why you think it is wrong. Stretch yourself a little and explain what the consequences could be in this case from lying. Sorry, i don't believe in living my life by lying. Just face the truth of your own reality. If she gets an abortion, then it is what it is. Nothing is served and nobody ever moves ahead on lies. When you live in and accept what is real, then you can heal your life. Not so with lies.
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