milee
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Post by milee on May 12, 2013 7:43:25 GMT -5
(As far as adoption goes, it is possible to terminate the rights of an unnamed birth father. If she doesn't want to wait around until he proves that he is unfit to parent, there are ways to work around it) Talk to an adoption lawyer that's an expert in your state laws about this. One of the last foster care to adoption cases I dealt with in Arizona involved a bio mother and father that were homeless meth addicts. She was turning tricks to support her habit and he had multiple arrests for violent crimes. In the first 5 years of the child's life, he was taken away from them twice for endangering him (and the first incident, when he was 1 1/2 was incredibly serious) and had been in foster care for a total of 3 1/2 of his 5 years. It was still very, very difficult to sever the parental rights of those two parents. The father didn't even dispute the severance proceedings and hadn't shown up for court for over 2 years and it still took over 3 years to get his rights severed, including a last minute scare when some distant cousins who were born-again evangelists types living in Montana appearing out of nowhere seeking to adopt a child they had never even met. Fun times. Adoption could be a good option, but don't discount the idea that the dad - or his family - could get full custody. Know your state laws. And pray the father doesn't have any Native American heritage.
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happyscooter
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Post by happyscooter on May 12, 2013 7:44:02 GMT -5
oped, I did not know that they were living together. I thought the daughter lived at home. I thought they were around 16 or 17 years old.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2013 7:46:51 GMT -5
Or the parents were abusive. Kid finally gets big enough to fight back at 16. He never learns good communication skills, only knows yelling at home. Certainly not ideal, but not worth writing him off for...
I suggest not making assumptions/ rushing to judgement. I would seek more information, talk to daughter, remain vigilant/ cautious.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2013 7:47:31 GMT -5
I think they are 18/19.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2013 7:48:27 GMT -5
I once had a young teen mother cry in my arms, after being ordered by the court to turn her baby over to her abusive ex, for unsupervised visits. I'm not advocating abortion, but I'm telling you Naggie... Your daughter and you do not want this. If he's the A-hole you say he is, he'll push it and he'll get those visitations, just to get even.
It is so awful when there is a child involved in an abusive situation. You can never just "get away". There's always that tie.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on May 12, 2013 7:50:52 GMT -5
Shooby, I agree with you, it could just be drama. However, I would let him know that I am watching him like a hawk and that my child means more to me than anything. And that he had better watch his actions and words.
If he has already been involved in an altercation with his mother, they are aware of his antics, tantrums, temper, etc... But this might make one of his parents jerk a knot in him. Can you tell I am a redneck? I just need a white wifebeater with a black bra. Strap hanging out is optional. Oh, absolutely. The best course of action would be for her to leave NOW and make it clear that this type of behavior is a deal breaker and completely unacceptable and she does not deserve to be treated this way nor will she tolerate it whatsoever towards her or their child.
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milee
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Post by milee on May 12, 2013 7:51:01 GMT -5
Or the parents were abusive. Kid finally gets big enough to fight back at 16. He never learns good communication skills, only knows yelling at home. Certainly not ideal, but not worth writing him off for... I suggest not making assumptions/ rushing to judgement. I would seek more information, talk to daughter, remain vigilant/ cautious. This. And keeping the drama level down by not adding to it. Be a calm voice of reason and you can stay in the process. Add to the excitement and you risk alienating either or both of them just when you're most needed.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on May 12, 2013 7:53:14 GMT -5
Yes. That is my point about her eating out alone. Dont' read anything into things like that. It most likely doesn't mean anything and dont' make an emotionally stressful situation more difficult by ascribing meaning to things like that. Stick with the facts which is him screaming and blaming and threatening and act from there.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2013 7:53:48 GMT -5
(As far as adoption goes, it is possible to terminate the rights of an unnamed birth father. If she doesn't want to wait around until he proves that he is unfit to parent, there are ways to work around it) Talk to an adoption lawyer that's an expert in your state laws about this. One of the last foster care to adoption cases I dealt with in Arizona involved a bio mother and father that were homeless meth addicts. She was turning tricks to support her habit and he had multiple arrests for violent crimes. In the first 5 years of the child's life, he was taken away from them twice for endangering him (and the first incident, when he was 1 1/2 was incredibly serious) and had been in foster care for a total of 3 1/2 of his 5 years. It was still very, very difficult to sever the parental rights of those two parents. The father didn't even dispute the severance proceedings and hadn't shown up for court for over 2 years and it still took over 3 years to get his rights severed, including a last minute scare when some distant cousins who were born-again evangelists types living in Montana appearing out of nowhere seeking to adopt a child they had never even met. Fun times. Adoption could be a good option, but don't discount the idea that the dad - or his family - could get full custody. Know your state laws. And pray the father doesn't have any Native American heritage. It sounds really unethical to suggest this, but a lot of adoption cases involve an unknown or unnamed birth father. If the birth mother is married, the husband is assumed to be the birth father. If she is unmarried, it isn't as cut and dry. There is always a procedure to terminate the parental rights of the birth father. If his identity is known, then they serve him papers. If it is unknown, they may have to put a notice in the newspaper or he may have to come forward and list his name on a registry as a potential birth father in order to have any rights.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on May 12, 2013 7:56:12 GMT -5
I am not sure yelling at your girlfriend is going to be enough to terminate a father's parental rights. And, at this point, trying to eliminate him completely from his child's life seems premature. And, if she doesn't name him, then she is potentially going to lose any possible support as well. I really think this is an issue for the back burner for now and to focus on the imminent which is making sure DD is safe.
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happyscooter
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Post by happyscooter on May 12, 2013 7:57:39 GMT -5
And you can remind the daughter that if she delivers the baby & they don't end up married, he will have to provide support. $$ for diapers, clothing, a car seat for his car. $100 a month from a McDonalds paycheck is a lot more than $100 from a HVAC job, auto mechanic job, teacher job, etc...
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happyscooter
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Post by happyscooter on May 12, 2013 7:59:47 GMT -5
I agree with Shooby. If your daughter is keeping the baby, the focus needs to be on her/baby's health care. Get her to an Ob/GYN, health clinic or somewhere. And let her know that your door is always open.
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milee
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Post by milee on May 12, 2013 8:12:30 GMT -5
Talk to an adoption lawyer that's an expert in your state laws about this. One of the last foster care to adoption cases I dealt with in Arizona involved a bio mother and father that were homeless meth addicts. She was turning tricks to support her habit and he had multiple arrests for violent crimes. In the first 5 years of the child's life, he was taken away from them twice for endangering him (and the first incident, when he was 1 1/2 was incredibly serious) and had been in foster care for a total of 3 1/2 of his 5 years. It was still very, very difficult to sever the parental rights of those two parents. The father didn't even dispute the severance proceedings and hadn't shown up for court for over 2 years and it still took over 3 years to get his rights severed, including a last minute scare when some distant cousins who were born-again evangelists types living in Montana appearing out of nowhere seeking to adopt a child they had never even met. Fun times. Adoption could be a good option, but don't discount the idea that the dad - or his family - could get full custody. Know your state laws. And pray the father doesn't have any Native American heritage. It sounds really unethical to suggest this, but a lot of adoption cases involve an unknown or unnamed birth father. If the birth mother is married, the husband is assumed to be the birth father. If she is unmarried, it isn't as cut and dry. There is always a procedure to terminate the parental rights of the birth father. If his identity is known, then they serve him papers. If it is unknown, they may have to put a notice in the newspaper or he may have to come forward and list his name on a registry as a potential birth father in order to have any rights. True. In this case, though, with both families being so involved, the chances of being able to keep the father and his involved, extended family in the dark and pull this off are slim to none IMHO. And this is one of those "if you shoot the King, you better make darn sure he's dead" scenarios. In that if you try something like this out and the father+extended family discover it and fight for rights, you've lost all credibility in future court proceedings so are at a huge disadvantage from that point forward.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 12, 2013 8:49:20 GMT -5
Not to mention it involves filing false statements to the court, which is a felony.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on May 12, 2013 8:56:27 GMT -5
I just think it is very premature to try to cut out the entire parternal side and extended family of this child. That may be necessary or not. There may be relatives on the paternal side who embrace and love the child as well. Who knows? And, i am sure he could request a paternity test anyway and establish that he is the father.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2013 9:08:45 GMT -5
Not to mention it involves filing false statements to the court, which is a felony. What's a little perjury among friends? (kidding... mostly) I 100% agree that none of this is ideal, but I'm saying that the first order of business is to make sure she is safe. And if she isn't safe, then get her the hell out of town. Seriously. Pregnancy is basically the single most dangerous time for women in abusive relationships. If that is what this is, then my vote is to run, and make the rest up as you go along. Pregnant women have 3 options: abortion, adoption, and parenting. I wouldn't want her to take one of her options off the table just because she wouldn't want to expose her location to her abuser or put her child at risk. Once she has made the best choice for her, she can figure out a way to make it work. Step 1 is to get safe. Step 2 is to decide what she wants for her pregnancy. Step 3 is to figure out how to implement that plan without jeopardizing step 1.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2013 9:27:12 GMT -5
Talk to her and lie - say a friend of yours witnessed the fight at the store. Say you don't know many details because details may give away that it was her friend. She may have exaggerated to her friend so you don't want to out her with details. Say you are here to listen if she wants to talk, but don't pressure her to talk.
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Queen of Interesting Nuts
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Post by Queen of Interesting Nuts on May 12, 2013 9:31:16 GMT -5
I know it is difficult to say everything on a message board. But there are nuances in someone's behaviour that you pick up on. For example the two arguments over the phone, one day when it was early on in the relationship he was in the living room and I was in the kitchen and they were talking and he raised his arm to her, I saw it and reacted and shouted that he better not do that again. I am sure it was messing around but it is not something I would do t mess around. Not funny to me. He doesn't like any of her friends. I see a tiny bit of something but can't put my finger on it.
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Queen of Interesting Nuts
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Post by Queen of Interesting Nuts on May 12, 2013 9:33:14 GMT -5
Didn't sleep at all last night. It's like he wants to assert himself as a man but is doing it in all the wrong way.
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Queen of Interesting Nuts
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Post by Queen of Interesting Nuts on May 12, 2013 9:34:44 GMT -5
However, I would let him know that I am watching him like a hawk and that my child means more to me than anything. And that he had better watch his actions and words.
This is what I am doing right now.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2013 9:51:47 GMT -5
Since your daughter is going to be supported by you when she goes back to school why don't you let her move in?
- without the boyfriend that is.
Why are you shelling our money that will go to support another roof and adult?
And if your daughter is not with the douchebag 24/7 she is more likely to the douchebag.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on May 12, 2013 10:33:28 GMT -5
Didn't sleep at all last night. It's like he wants to assert himself as a man but is doing it in all the wrong way. Naggie this is a bad rationalization and needs to be dropped ASAP. People who scream and blame others when something goes wrong are doing it because they don't know how to control themselves. It has nothing to do with being a man or being masculine. Your daughter might be ripe for this abuse possibly because your family seems to be all about making nice and calming down the family drama. That will not work with a person who externalizes their frustration on others. She needs to learn to remind him its his issue and disengage quickly. Hang up the phone, walk away, live at Mom's for a week - whatever it takes. Listening just encourages people like that to continue dumping.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2013 10:34:51 GMT -5
In your situation I actually would ask them both to move in, but that's me.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on May 12, 2013 10:46:59 GMT -5
Talk to her and lie - say a friend of yours witnessed the fight at the store. Say you don't know many details because details may give away that it was her friend. She may have exaggerated to her friend so you don't want to out her with details. Say you are here to listen if she wants to talk, but don't pressure her to talk. I'm on the fence about this, but the approach does have its merits. IMHO I think the thing you need to focus on is how bad is it really and perhaps counseling for DD so she can deal with it and walk away if she needs to. I hope she isn't making the typical mistake assuming his strong emotions mean he cares for her more than guy's with less drama. less strong in your face emotions. Hopefully he's just a immature guy who needs to learn control. If not, she needs to figure that out ASAP, because Crafty is correct. Pregnancy is the most likely time men will hurt the women in their lives physically. Try to ignore not so important things like her eating alone. I would think that would be preferable to someone yelling at you but that's me. One thing you might want to consider is offering to pick her up wherever if he gets in the yelling/screaming mood while out in public. I'd tell her to walk away if her request for him to get himself under control didn't work. Call you and have him leave her there. On the direction thing. I hope she told him he needs to do that for himself. If he's unwilling or unable to verify the directions by driving there before the day and time of the interview then leave enough time if it isn't easy to find. I have this issue semi-regularly. I don't have the funds for the recommended pre-interview drive so I pad in some time hoping it will be sufficient if the location and/or office is difficult to find. Mapquest and Google sometimes both have the wrong information so its best to leave yourself some time just in case.
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Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on May 12, 2013 10:59:10 GMT -5
The other day we were talking about abortion and what I thought were the different limits (12 weeks versus 24 weeks for medical issues) and DD said that that can't happen because *C would not let her and kill her if she did. Keeping the baby or not is your daughter's decision, and no one else's. Please make certain she understands this point.
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Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on May 12, 2013 11:05:28 GMT -5
I don't know what kind of relationship you have with your DD, so it's hard to say how you should talk to her and what you should say. But I will say this - if you think that his behaviour is bad now, wait until she is more pregnant and not able to do certain things or not able to work. I don't care what he says about how much he wants that baby, he is going to get more and more stressed out about the whole thing and guess who is going to be there for all that? Also, no normal person says even jokingly "I am going to kill you if you have an abortion". That's not "matter of speech" kind of talk. So, the bottom line is - while yes, it is a hard topic to talk about, you better decide what you are going to do NOW before it gets too far and becomes too late. And if not you, may be your daughter's friend can do something ITA. Also, how will he cope when money is tight and an infant is crying at all hours interrupting his sleep? If he is taking it out on her when he can't find an address now, it doesn't bode well for the future. Naggie, I hope your daughter knows that he has NO RIGHT to scream at her, even if something is 100% her fault.
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Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on May 12, 2013 11:07:40 GMT -5
She told me that she was hungry and that he didn't want to go. DH would never let me leave the house late at night to go eat. ? You're an adult. Why would DH "let" you do anything?
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 12, 2013 11:09:19 GMT -5
Didn't you mention that your daughter was going to stop working full time and go back to school while she is pregnant? It seems to me that you were planning on paying her half of the rent on their apartment.
This might be an opportunity for you to renege on doing this and request that she move back home. If she wants to go back to school, you will support her (and the baby) in your home. This is going to be more of a pain in the ass for you, but will likely cost less and will keep your daughter from being isolated during her pregnancy.
The yelling alone really doesn't alarm me too much, but the fact that he has already been arrested for attempting to assault his mother. He has anger control issues (which may be why he has problems being successfully employed?) and all the signs are there for potential abuse.
Whatever you do, you need to make sure that the lines of communication remain open with your daughter.
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Plain Old Petunia
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on May 12, 2013 11:11:10 GMT -5
Well don't read into like that. What I mean is that not that he would forbid me or restrain me from going we would just go together. When we were that age and no kids yet we liked to go to dunkin donots late at night. One of us would say I fancy donots and even if I didn't feel like it I would go with him to be with him or if he didn't feel like it he would go with me to keep my company. He wasn't physically restraining me or telling me no I couldn't go just that we would go together, or one of us really didn't want to go we would just compromise and say we will go the next night. Oh, OK, gotcha. He wouldn't let you go alone, meaning he would go with you if you wanted to go.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on May 12, 2013 11:16:31 GMT -5
On the direction thing. I hope she told him he needs to do that for himself. If he's unwilling or unable to verify the directions by driving there before the day and time of the interview then leave enough time if it isn't easy to find. I have this issue semi-regularly. I don't have the funds for the recommended pre-interview drive so I pad in some time hoping it will be sufficient if the location and/or office is difficult to find. Mapquest and Google sometimes both have the wrong information so its best to leave yourself some time just in case. IMO, it is not the fact that the GPS or Mapquest directions are incorrect, but the fact that the anger he displays is waaaay out of proportion to the problem. If he gets this pissed at wrong directions, what happens with a crying baby while he is trying to watch TV? More than once our GPS has been waaaay off the bat. Neither of us get pissed off and start yelling at the other person. We just figure it out and correct ourselves to get where we need to be. Wrong directions is not a reason to get so pissed off.
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