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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2013 14:51:55 GMT -5
My wife told her mother that she miscarried, rather than tell her she had an abortion. It was easier on everyone that way.
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Queen of Interesting Nuts
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Post by Queen of Interesting Nuts on May 13, 2013 15:12:04 GMT -5
OMG Archie I am so sorry.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on May 13, 2013 15:20:46 GMT -5
So don't start weaving a whole web of lies. Most of time you don't need to keep piling lies on top of each other. You need one lie, that you stick to forever.
What kind of 18 year old guy actually wants a kid? If Naggie's daughter had a "miscarriage" he's probably going to breathe the biggest sigh of relief ever. She might actually have a shot at going to school full time and working part time, no idea how she was going to do both with a new baby. I know people do it, but they're the exception not the norm.
This kid sounds like a loser. Maybe I'm wrong on that and he just needs time to mature. So get an abortion, stay with the knucklehead, and if he shapes up over the next 3-5 years, you have a kid then. They're 18 and 19, it's statistically pretty unlikely that this is their only shot at parenthood.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on May 13, 2013 15:28:25 GMT -5
The world is built on lies. Most of them are the "little white ones", but falling back on that old saying is avoiding a real debate on why you think it is wrong. Stretch yourself a little and explain what the consequences could be in this case from lying. Sorry, i don't believe in living my life by lying. Just face the truth of your own reality. If she gets an abortion, then it is what it is. Nothing is served and nobody ever moves ahead on lies. When you live in and accept what is real, then you can heal your life. Not so with lies. So what would be the potentially negative consequences of the lie? The fact that you wouldn't do it is fine - that's your choice - but as the topic of this thread isn't "what should Shooby do," it's not that relevant.
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Queen of Interesting Nuts
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Post by Queen of Interesting Nuts on May 13, 2013 15:41:08 GMT -5
My DD is 19 and he is 21 but yeah Dark your point is the same, I agree.
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justme
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Post by justme on May 13, 2013 15:51:49 GMT -5
Sorry, i don't believe in living my life by lying. Just face the truth of your own reality. If she gets an abortion, then it is what it is. Nothing is served and nobody ever moves ahead on lies. When you live in and accept what is real, then you can heal your life. Not so with lies. So what would be the potentially negative consequences of the lie? The fact that you wouldn't do it is fine - that's your choice - but as the topic of this thread isn't "what should Shooby do," it's not that relevant. And what are the negative consequences of the truth? He's known to be violent, verbally berates/abuses her already, and has said he'd kill her if she had an abortion. While only the daughter knows the full context of the comment and whether it should be taken as the threat it sounds like - if the statement is the threat it sounds like I don't see his response to her telling him she had an abortion being sunshine and roses and how she did what she thought was best. And he will ask. To me it's a lot easier to heal from one lie about "miscarrying" than it is to heal from bruises, broken bones, cuts, or death. Again, I don't know if this situation is at that magnitude.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 13, 2013 15:58:07 GMT -5
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 13, 2013 16:00:02 GMT -5
Fact is, Naggies DD got pregnant for her own reasons so I'm assuming she has no intention of getting an abortion. Even though the smart thing would be to do so. It is what it is. I feel sorry for the baby and someday we will all feel sorry for Naggies DD.
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Queen of Interesting Nuts
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Post by Queen of Interesting Nuts on May 13, 2013 16:05:42 GMT -5
No we won't. No one should feel sorry for her, I don't.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on May 13, 2013 16:06:15 GMT -5
My wife told her mother that she miscarried, rather than tell her she had an abortion. It was easier on everyone that way. Sometimes, Archie, that's the right thing to do, IMO. Nobody can know, for sure, except those directly involved.
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Queen of Interesting Nuts
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Post by Queen of Interesting Nuts on May 13, 2013 16:10:42 GMT -5
Sorry sorry sorry there is a mistake about a post... We were talking about the time limit on abortions last week and DD said "*C wouldn't let her and he'll kill her if she does" HE DID NOT SAY THAT....DD said that. HE DID NOT SAY THAT. I don't think (well I fuxxxxing hope not) that he said that to her. It was HER response to me while talking about abortion.
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justme
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Post by justme on May 13, 2013 16:17:34 GMT -5
Well that's good that he didn't say that. Though still slightly concerning your daughter THINKS that about him though.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on May 13, 2013 16:21:53 GMT -5
2 things:
1. I can't believe how much discussion eating by herself has gotten. How is this a big deal? She wanted to go get some food, he didn't, so she went there and ate alone. This is how normally functioning human beings operate. If he DID go, it would have been about how he is super controlling so that she can't even go out to eat by herself. This is one of those situations where prior judgement of someone means any action becomes the wrong one. Unhealthy behavior is him not letting her go out because he doesn't feel like it and won't let her go alone. I say all that to say this: The inability to distinguish troubling behavior from normal behavior is going to make any conversation about how he treats her problematic. Bringing in normal behavior as "examples" of him not treating her right is going to dramatically weaken that argument. In pointing out how out of control someone is, you need to stick to the most extreme examples to make the point clear.
2. I think judging a particular incident based on how you interpret what a friend said to you about how she interpreted text messages sent during a fight is probably one of the least accurate ways you could ever judge an interaction. This is probably one of those things to ignore. Go with what you've seen or what she's told you.
It took a bit into the thread before I saw ages, but I don't get why "should I go tell his mom" is a viable option. They're both adults. If you want to address something with him, address it with him. It sounds like you'd be best off addressing it with your daughter though. There's no reason he needs to listen to you. Anything you say to him is likely going to be completely ignored. You presumably still have at least some influence over your own child though. Realistically, you're probably in the realm of "be supportive and make it clear you love her and will help her as she needs it". Kids her age aren't exactly known for following mom's advice. But you can make it clear that if she makes a decision which destroys their relationship at least she won't be all alone dealing with the fallout.
::You need one lie, that you stick to forever. ::
This particular lie is a lot easier though if you know you're breaking up. I'm going to guess that "I ended our child's life and then pretended that I didn't", isn't one of those little white lies that it's easy to keep up forever. And it's probably not even one she'd be able to keep up in the short term. I have to think it's an emotional thing, and the more emotional you are about something the harder it is to keep the lie going I think.
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Queen of Interesting Nuts
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Post by Queen of Interesting Nuts on May 13, 2013 16:23:06 GMT -5
Yes I agree justme, that is one of the facets of why this is difficult for me. It is not overt to me but things I have seen, things I have heard and things I know just seems .... odd .... if you know what I mean. All the things I have heard, seen and know didn't come I didn't find out all at once, they are spread out over months but still make me think.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on May 13, 2013 16:25:11 GMT -5
Well that's good that he didn't say that. Though still slightly concerning your daughter THINKS that about him though. Meh, I think it's a LOT less concerning though. When I say "My wife will kill me if I'm late", I don't REALLY mean she's going ot murder me. I think that phrasing is thrown around a lot more by the person supposedly going to be killed...it's more troubling if he actually says "if you do that I'll murder you"...assuming he's being serious and not screwing around.
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Robert not Bobby
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Post by Robert not Bobby on May 13, 2013 16:28:21 GMT -5
Naggie 72, in no way do I want to make light of this, but you strike me as a very ''''''DRAMATIC'''''' person...that is not always a bad thing.
Tell your daughter to associate with a more refined type of guy...but she won't listen to you.
The heart is a strange and bizzare thing.
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Queen of Interesting Nuts
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Post by Queen of Interesting Nuts on May 13, 2013 16:30:32 GMT -5
Again, even though you are picking up on one and two things hoops there is a whole lot more that I know of. These two you picked out though you can't/won't understand they mean something to me in the whole scheme of a relationship. I replied why I mentioned about the eating out, it is indicative of another behaviour pattern that is of concern to me as well, not just this one we are posting about. I also replied in a post regarding that.
If you had read all my responses then to the second question is that it is not just simply a friend of a friend of a friend said that. That conversation was the icing on the cake as far as posting this thread was concerned.
Telling his mom was one of the options, I have done nothing at this point...I could well have said tell his manager and at this point it would be very nearly the same.
So you DON'T think I should have a frank conversation with his mother gently asking if this is him being normal or whether she HAS seen some abarrent (sp) from him lately.
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Queen of Interesting Nuts
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Post by Queen of Interesting Nuts on May 13, 2013 16:33:26 GMT -5
I am the antithesis of DRAMATIC in my real life, here I let it all out. I am consistently known as the cool, calm and collected one. Consistently by many, as far as to people to try to ruffle my feathers. Doesn't work, never will in real life.
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Robert not Bobby
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Post by Robert not Bobby on May 13, 2013 16:45:07 GMT -5
I like that you know and use the word antithesis in context...good. You know that people often use throw away lines that have no bearing on reality or intentions.
When I was coming of age one of the slang expressions here was "cut me up". Now that didn't mean literally cutting someone up, it was tween speak for someone making fun of you.
You are English, when they take the mickey out of you, what does that mean?
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on May 13, 2013 16:46:40 GMT -5
::These two you picked out though you can't/won't understand they mean something to me in the whole scheme of a relationship.::
I understand they mean something to YOU. What I'm saying is that once you have a picture of who someone is, every action they take only serves to confirm your feelings, even if you could find fault with all options they could have taken. It's ok that they mean something to YOU, what I'm saying is that in conversations with others, using these as examples is not going to strengthen your case for someone who's treating your daughter poorly. Regardless of who that's with.
And yes, I'm picking up on one or two things, but they're the one or two things you've given as examples. It's really easy to say "well you just don't know the whole story". I'm not even doubting your conclusion about him being a bad guy, but the examples that you've relayed don't do much to support that position.
::I replied why I mentioned about the eating out, it is indicative of another behaviour pattern that is of concern to me as well, not just this one we are posting about.::
What behavior pattern that is of concern to you does allowing another human being who is hungry to go out and eat dinner by themselves indicate? This is such an utter and complete non-issue. Just because a guy is a potentially terrible person, doesn't mean that every situation they are in they do something terrible.
::So you DON'T think I should have a frank conversation with his mother gently asking if this is him being normal or whether she HAS seen some abarrent (sp) from him lately.::
No, I don't think you shoudl run to your daughter's boyfriend's mother to have a conversation about his behavior. He's an adult. If he was 15 and she was his legal guardian then yeah. Doing so is pretty clearly trying to stir up some more drama. What good can possibly come of going and talking to his mother?
Maybe I'm missing something. When you say if "this is him being normal"...what are you referring to? What specific actions that you've witnessed would you ask if it's him being normal? Because this isn't the kind of conversation where you say "well my daughter says this". Going and speaking to an adult's parents about their behavior is pretty much limited to "my daughter's been kidnapped by your son, do you have any idea where they are?".
::Telling his mom was one of the options::
What I'm saying is that I don't understand how this is even an option you ponder for more than half a second before laughing it off as bizarre and ridiculous.
::I could well have said tell his manager and at this point it would be very nearly the same. ::
Yes, you coudl have. I would equate those 2 as being equally poor options.
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Queen of Interesting Nuts
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Post by Queen of Interesting Nuts on May 13, 2013 16:46:51 GMT -5
Anyone that has family has some drama, my specific family is very disfunctional. I will say I am PASSIONATE about protecting myself, DH, DS and DD. I have a HEALTHY respect for all our wellbeing but I am not IMMUNE to what others say and do, that could damage my immediate family. I sometimes forgive but I never FORGET. Others' start things I FINISH them. I WILL NOT let anyone take down my immediate family, they will NOT forget my wrath should they say or do anything against the wellbeing of my immediate family. THEY LOSE ALWAYS.
I can cut you with my just my eyes.
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Queen of Interesting Nuts
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Post by Queen of Interesting Nuts on May 13, 2013 16:48:09 GMT -5
Being sarcastic Bobby. I hope you weren't taking the mickey out of my use of the word antithesis because I really want 10 points for slithering.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on May 13, 2013 16:50:03 GMT -5
::Anyone that has family has some drama, my specific family is very disfunctional. I will say I am PASSIONATE about protecting myself, DH, DS and DD. I have a HEALTHY respect for all our wellbeing but I am not IMMUNE to what others say and do, that could damage my immediate family. I sometimes forgive but I never FORGET. Others' start things I FINISH them. I WILL NOT let anyone take down my immediate family, they will NOT forget my wrath should they say or do anything against the wellbeing of my immediate family. THEY LOSE ALWAYS.::
I can't believe anyone would call you dramatic.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on May 13, 2013 16:51:40 GMT -5
Sorry, i don't believe in living my life by lying. Just face the truth of your own reality. If she gets an abortion, then it is what it is. Nothing is served and nobody ever moves ahead on lies. When you live in and accept what is real, then you can heal your life. Not so with lies. So what would be the potentially negative consequences of the lie? The fact that you wouldn't do it is fine - that's your choice - but as the topic of this thread isn't "what should Shooby do," it's not that relevant. And, neither is the topic of the thread "what should MIDJD or MMC do" either.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on May 13, 2013 16:52:29 GMT -5
Fact is, Naggies DD got pregnant for her own reasons so I'm assuming she has no intention of getting an abortion. Even though the smart thing would be to do so. It is what it is. I feel sorry for the baby and someday we will all feel sorry for Naggies DD. The "smart thing to do" according to whom? Maybe to you. Doesn't mean it is for her.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 13, 2013 16:55:03 GMT -5
Certainly it is. They are both immature children with no job skills. McJobs, for Pete's sake. He's 21 and a loser. She's 19 and basically trying to figure out her life as well.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on May 13, 2013 16:56:19 GMT -5
My wife told her mother that she miscarried, rather than tell her she had an abortion. It was easier on everyone that way. /nosy Why did she tell her mother she was pregnant at all? I've been pregnant many times (unfortunately) and I only finally told my mom when I was 20 weeks pregnant with my baby. \nosy
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Queen of Interesting Nuts
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Post by Queen of Interesting Nuts on May 13, 2013 17:00:07 GMT -5
Hey now Zib she is a manager ..
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Queen of Interesting Nuts
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Post by Queen of Interesting Nuts on May 13, 2013 17:02:05 GMT -5
Oh I am certainly dramatic in regards to protecting my family if needs be. I do not court drama though. It happens from time to time but in general I don't really have that much faith or interest in people to really care in the end.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on May 13, 2013 17:11:16 GMT -5
So what would be the potentially negative consequences of the lie? The fact that you wouldn't do it is fine I - that's your choice - but as the topic of this thread isn't "what should Shooby do," it's not that relevant. And, neither is the topic of the thread "what should MIDJD or MMC do" either. True, which is why most posters are trying to give advice based on facts (what we know of them) rather than "I wouldn't do that because I think it's wrong."
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