safeharbor37
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Post by safeharbor37 on Feb 8, 2011 21:33:24 GMT -5
....democracy except governed by Sharia...... Care to explain how that would work? Like Iran maybe?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2011 22:07:44 GMT -5
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Feb 8, 2011 22:36:06 GMT -5
Pretty sure you do not want to be female under sharia law
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Feb 8, 2011 22:43:07 GMT -5
No, you probably don't. But I wouldn't have wanted to be a female 60 years ago in the US.. and I wouldn't want to be a female in the US if abortion rights are overturned. So it's all relative to your culture and time. Minds can be changed.
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Post by marjar on Feb 8, 2011 23:12:27 GMT -5
This is not in defense of Sharia law. I don't know enough about Sharia to debate it, however..........
In this country, women did not not have the right to vote until 1920. Women have had to fight and continue to fight for equality in the work place. It wasn't until the 1970's that marital rape laws were established. Democracy? Times change as do people and laws.
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Post by ed1066 on Feb 8, 2011 23:30:39 GMT -5
OK, good luck with that. Enjoy your nose while you still have it...
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 8, 2011 23:36:15 GMT -5
....democracy except governed by Sharia...... Care to explain how that would work? Like Iran maybe? That is where the "itjihad " comes in Safe.. I saw that word and definition in one of the threads I put up and read three long articles on that, so many more, google "translation of itjihad ", you'll see what I mean. One was a discourse on the Muslim, beliefs..but it is a way for one of the sects were they will , my words here so bear with me, modernize the beliefs..no stoning , hands cut off...my ideas...but still a nation under sharia.. But the extremes we in the West think of when we see that word , "sharia", ..this interpretation, change for the times, comes from the 10th century..not a spur of the moment change for the moment.. it's deeply ingrained in their, Muslims beliefs, differences between Shia and Sunni.. Lets face it most of us know squat about the two sects, Shia, Sunni and even less about the Muslim, religion, yet we are here posting our thoughts.. ;D Kinda ludicrous to me in a way, what do you think? You and I think the differences are who was the one to succeed the Prophit..the religious leaders at he time or his relative but there is so much more then that.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Feb 9, 2011 0:25:33 GMT -5
Most of us don't actually know the difference between baptist, protestant, etc, etc, etc. Yet even they will vehemently disagree with each other on a number of issues.
Thank goodness we don't live according to Baptist creed, btw. Then women wouldn't have rights either.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Feb 9, 2011 0:34:40 GMT -5
here's a woman from the United States that was beaten by her husband: i.ytimg.com/vi/aS18kD6pZhQ/0.jpgAnd here are some statistics on domestic violence: www.dvrc-or.org/domestic/violence/resources/C61/Up until 1976 women had no protection from their husbands... even with the right to vote they were still essentially defenseless. Don't you DARE cite a supposed lack of violence against women as a trump card of why America is better than everywhere else. Meanwhile, we still treat Gay Americans like second class citizens because of religious doctrine. So you seriously have nothing, ed. Your arguments ring quite false.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 9, 2011 1:01:44 GMT -5
ed dares but as far as most paying attention ...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2011 1:26:42 GMT -5
www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/01/24/honor-killings-buffalo-arizona-trials-prove-happening/Honor Killings In Buffalo and Arizona? Two Trials Prove This Is Happening Here. By Phyllis Chesler Published January 24, 2011 ..............Understandably, Muslim apologists point out that honor killings are a tribal custom that preceded Islam. This is true. However, both Judaism and Christianity have eliminated such tribal customs. Islam has not. Feminist anti-racists point out that domestic violence exists everywhere and that to focus on honor killings as a Muslim phenomenon will stigmatize a large group of otherwise innocent people. This might be true. However, as I have documented in two studies in Middle East Quarterly, western-style domestic violence is not the same as an honor killing. If we do not quickly understand what the differences are, we will not understand how to protect or shelter those immigrants and asylum seekers who wish to live like Americans in America; nor will we be able to prosecute their murderers effectively. The blood of girls and women like Noor Almaleki, Aasiya Zubair Hassan, and Sarah and Amina Said, will be on American hands. MORE
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Feb 9, 2011 1:52:30 GMT -5
There's a difference between western-style domestic violence and honor killings? Someone is blatantly bigoted. Both are about power. Both are evil. But if we are "better" than they are it is only due to a very long struggle to get that way.. and meanwhile, womens' rights are constantly at risk of being removed in the US.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2011 1:59:47 GMT -5
Yes, there is a HUGE difference. Honor killings are condoned by Sharia law and an accepted part of Islam. Domestic violence most certainly is not.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Feb 9, 2011 3:16:04 GMT -5
Actually, from what I read honor killings are denounced by most of islam. It's only the hardliners that are ok with it. There are extremists in every religion.
And domestic violence was legal in the US up until 35 years ago. Some american religious groups claim women belong in the home and shouldn't have leadership roles TO THIS DAY! I think all doctine is sick.
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workpublic
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Post by workpublic on Feb 9, 2011 7:48:18 GMT -5
They are fighting to be able to do so. Why do you think you have a say?aren't we all brothers and sisters in a rich diverse global society? don't the illegals in the US deserve a voice in our democracy? i don't think i have a say. i'm trying to educate the naive who support the MB and think they are a possible solution. would you say that the german people are responsible for hitler's atrocities, since they democratically elected him?
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Post by privateinvestor on Feb 9, 2011 8:59:49 GMT -5
The Obama Administration has to be worried that if the Muslim Brotherhood gains more power in Egypt that there influence could spread to other Middle East countries. And they could align themselves with al Qaeda, Hamas, or Hezbullah...since they all have similar goals but different methods to attain their goals
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Feb 9, 2011 11:43:38 GMT -5
Muslim Brotherhood text reveals scope of radical creed By OREN KESSLER 02/09/2011 02:09 Marcus spoke to the Post about what he views as the danger of downplaying the Brotherhood’s ideology, or expecting it to moderate its objectives after being allowed into the political process. The movement differs from international terror groups like Al-Qaida, he said, only in tactics, not in its goals. Marcus cited passages in the text that urge Muslims to wage jihad only when circumstances are ripe. “The Brotherhood is not rushed by youth’s enthusiasm into immature and unplanned action which will not alter the bad reality and may even harm the Islamic activity, and will benefit the people of falsehood,” Mashhur wrote. “One should know that it is not necessary that the Muslims repel every attack or damage caused by the enemies of Allah immediately, but [only] when ability and the circumstances are fit to it.” Jihad is the Way explicitly endorses the reinstatement of a worldwide Islamic regime. www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=207415Documentary on Iran's nuclear goals. www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iraniumthemovie.com%2F&ei=U8NSTYvZMJDUtQPHz9XPBg&usg=AFQjCNG6kecSla2OeBC--fMK5zW4tKWGnQ
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2011 12:30:52 GMT -5
biggovernment.com/pgeller/2011/01/26/why-cair-is-going-after-peter-king/You might get the idea from this that King’s hearings are actually going to do some good. After all, if the Hamas group CAIR is angry, King must be doing something right. Yet last week I called King’s hearings a “show trial” after King told Politico that he was “not planning to call as witnesses such Muslim community critics as the Investigative Project on Terrorism’s Steve Emerson and Jihad Watch’s Robert Spencer.” I wrote that “for King not to avail himself of Emerson’s knowledge and Spencer’s scholarship is an astounding case of willful blindness.” Even worse, King (R-NY) said he was going to call Muslim Brotherhood-linked Congressman Keith Ellison (D-MN). I support increasing awareness of the jihadist threat in our midst. Who more than I? But when Politico reported that King, who is the new chairman of the Homeland Security Committee, plans to take “testimony primarily from Muslims” during his upcoming hearings, I thought, why? The media considers it its mission to take its spin primarily from Muslims. The cultural elites are constantly haranguing us with the Islamic supremacist narrative of calling any candor or criticism of jihad “Islamophobia.” MORE
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Post by ed1066 on Feb 9, 2011 12:34:03 GMT -5
You're making the assumption that they don't want that to happen. I think they do. Obama has a cabinet member with close ties to the Muslim Brotherhood. He has come out publicly in support of them being part of the new Egyptian government. What else do you need to see? Obama with a sign saying "I heart the Muslim Brotherhood"?
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 9, 2011 12:51:57 GMT -5
biggovernment.com/pgeller/2011/01/26/why-cair-is-going-after-peter-king/You might get the idea from this that King’s hearings are actually going to do some good. After all, if the Hamas group CAIR is angry, King must be doing something right. Yet last week I called King’s hearings a “show trial” after King told Politico that he was “not planning to call as witnesses such Muslim community critics as the Investigative Project on Terrorism’s Steve Emerson and Jihad Watch’s Robert Spencer.” I wrote that “for King not to avail himself of Emerson’s knowledge and Spencer’s scholarship is an astounding case of willful blindness.” Even worse, King (R-NY) said he was going to call Muslim Brotherhood-linked Congressman Keith Ellison (D-MN). I support increasing awareness of the jihadist threat in our midst. Who more than I? But when Politico reported that King, who is the new chairman of the Homeland Security Committee, plans to take “testimony primarily from Muslims” during his upcoming hearings, I thought, why? The media considers it its mission to take its spin primarily from Muslims. The cultural elites are constantly haranguing us with the Islamic supremacist narrative of calling any candor or criticism of jihad “Islamophobia.” MORE Are you suggesting that because they are followers of Islam their testimony would be false, biased? Possible a better understanding of the situation by those who have the information based on their background and culture might be the result. Your use of the word "spin " is suggesting that all we get out of these hearings is false and not use ful. If so why have them, hearings? There was a suggestion by some that Obama's appointment of people who work with the Palastinians and Israeli's in trying to mediate their dispute should consist of more of the followers of Islam and muslims in general, The reasion is to get a more even minded , less one side oriented team then has been the way of the past, which was the problems of other presidents committees too, not confined to just the Obama team. Suggested the teams today and in the past were/are to one sided in their views thus not getting anywhere , being less effective then they could be because of pre conceived ideas as to who is right and wrong in the conflict, not understanding all parties equally. Why would I feel that testimony by western oriented, non islamic testifyers would give me a better insite of the problems and ideas of the people involved , when the people involved are almost 100% followers of Islam. Doesn't make sense Krickett. I don't want to hear what I want to hear..I would wwant to know what the real scoop is. The feelings of the people involved , and their back ground and culture are part of that and to expect one not of that background to know better what they are feeling, as I said, makes no sense.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2011 12:52:20 GMT -5
townhall.com/columnists/DougGiles/2011/02/06/o,_muslim_brotherhood,_who_art_thou ...Followers of the Religion of Peace are currently going nuts in Egypt, aren’t they? Isn’t it weird that when Muslims start burning crap down that the Blame Stream Media (BSM) calls them “revolutionaries, lovers of freedom, peace, kitty cats and cotton candy,” and an “oppressed people” who “yearn for democracy”? ... ....The ironic thing is that the selfsame media mooks who wink and nod at this “democratic revolt” get apoplectic when a patriotic Betty White opposes our oppressive government at a Tea Party by singing “God Bless America” while holding a sign that says, “Hope & Change This.” Yep, according to the media’s spinmeisters, granny is gonzo, her actions are inexcusable, and she’s to be feared and watched. ... ....Another thing that’s strange to moi is how the media and Obama’s Administration didn’t seem so supportive of the secular revolutionaries who also longed for freedom from Iran’s mucked-up mullahs during their last “election.” Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe you cats stood idly by and didn’t say diddly as students got beheaded, shot and tossed off bridges in their quest for liberty from Islamic oppression. I don’t remember Obama telling Ahmadinejad to bow out. Why the silence on Iran and the giddiness over Egypt, eh Lefties?.... MORE.. Wasn't sure if I should put this here or the Egypt thread, but this one was on top.. This is all so interesting if viewed in abstract, like it is just a debate on what if.. But-- not so fun since it really is happening.
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Post by jarhead1976 on Feb 9, 2011 12:53:10 GMT -5
Hey Dez, I could not show you videos of Americans being killed by Muslims . Besides them cutting heads off and the world trade center! In all fairness I can produce a link where you can watch innocent children being brought into the crossfire by their fathers who are carrying rpg and ak47! After all Its picture that you want right? If you can stomach it! we should open our arms and welcome them into the fold. MB all the way
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2011 12:55:10 GMT -5
(Dez) Are you suggesting that because they are followers of Islam their testimony would be false, biased? Dez-- I am suggesting that they would not like to have their heads cut off by committing blasphemy against Islam-- which is punishable by death. We are researching here, right?
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 9, 2011 13:08:59 GMT -5
Hey Dez, I could not show you videos of Americans being killed by Muslims . Besides them cutting heads off and the world trade center! In all fairness I can produce a link where you can watch innocent children being brought into the crossfire by their fathers who are carrying rpg and ak47! After all Its picture that you want right? If you can stomach it! we should open our arms and welcome them into the fold. MB all the way I don't understand your posts actually...first you ask if I have been under fire or returned it, then the smell of those who have fallen as if your the only one has been there...now this about atrocities by some sick people as if the billions of followers of Islam are all guilty of these events..what are you trying to say? Many of us have been where your suggesting you have been and experienced the same and more..just to revisit 40 years ago experiences are not what we are / myself all about. This thread is about trying to discover what the Brother Hood is about today, and your posts of bravado and atrocities of some sickos doesn't answer / address any of those questions.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 9, 2011 13:17:01 GMT -5
(Dez) Are you suggesting that because they are followers of Islam their testimony would be false, biased? Dez-- I am suggesting that they would not like to have their heads cut off by committing blasphemy against Islam-- which is punishable by death. We are researching here, right? Possible I mis understood your post, will go back and reread it..I did a quick skim, phone was reading, tough for me to do two things same time , I thought you were suggesting their testimony wouldn't be on the up and up. I think that they would have no problem adhering to their religious teachings by testifying to actual events and their ideas of thoughts that the parties involved, leadership, might be thinking and with their back ground , would be able to interpret the espoused ideas presented by those leaders of the different faction in a more accurate way, nothing to do with their personal faith and the teachings of Islam.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2011 13:32:25 GMT -5
Look what happened to the women recently that dared to defy their religion, Dez. They were murdered by their loved ones. These people are in real danger if they defy Islam. I have always wondered why we do not hear Muslims screaming loudly about terrorism, 9-11, etc. The answer must be that either they condone it-- hope not-- or they are scared to death to speak out. I'm hoping it is the latter. THINK-- when someone that claims to be Christian does something bad-- Christians on this board and all over the US denounce the violence. Muslims don't seem to have that freedom. You could actually say that the people perceived to be anti- Muslim are the PRO Muslims, because they want these people to be as free as we are in our country. But-- like in the UK-- they are living OUTSIDE of the mainstream of American life. Who knows how much of that is choice and how much fear?? I'm sure these honor killings do not encourage WOMEN to take a shot at the American way of freedom.
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Post by jarhead1976 on Feb 9, 2011 13:33:28 GMT -5
The brave are gone! Pictures and proof is that not, what you wanted on the other thread. Fairness and equal time to both American and Islamic believes? To support a group like MB or even give them the face of moderation is a disgrace to the brave that are gone.
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Post by ed1066 on Feb 9, 2011 13:38:29 GMT -5
True, but the liberals on the board will tell you that Christianity does the same thing, even if the only examples they can provide are 100+ years old, the liberal capacity for moral relevancy makes it impossible for them to see the problem...you can show them examples of hundreds of thousands if not millions of Muslim women being treated as slaves today, and they will remind you that white, Christian men kept slaves 150 years ago. To them, the two are the same...it's pretty hopeless, but I admire you for trying anyway...
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 9, 2011 13:39:00 GMT -5
The brave are gone! Pictures and proof is that not, what you wanted on the other thread. Fairness and equal time to both American and Islamic believes? To support a group like MB or even give them the face of moderation is a disgrace to the brave that are gone. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Your belief which is your right..for me and many others, knowledge is what we are looking for , not yadda , yadda.stereotype verbal comments. The disgrace is bringing up the memory of those who are gone in a quest for facts...IMHO.
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Post by jarhead1976 on Feb 9, 2011 13:42:25 GMT -5
Remember least we forget. Hey everybody forget about the Holocaust. According to Deziiloooo.. it never happened.
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