safeharbor37
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Post by safeharbor37 on Mar 10, 2011 12:57:10 GMT -5
Burns,
"Freedom's moments have been infrequent and exceptional. We must appreciate that we live in one of history's most exceptional moments--in a nation and a time of unprecedented freedom." "Rights are either God-given as part of the divine plan, or they are granted by government as part of the political plan. If we accept the premise that human rights are granted by government, then we must be willing to accept the corollary that they can be denied by government." “Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
....The government we get is the government we deserve. If we destroy the legacy we've inherited, what makes you think that a group of community organizers and union thugs can come up with a better plan? The same people who selected our current Administration and created the massive bureaucracies which constitute the government are the people who'd presume to second guess the wisdom of our founding fathers [old dead white men]. That would appear to me to be an exercise in the arrogance of ignorance.
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burnsattornincan
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Post by burnsattornincan on Mar 10, 2011 13:14:22 GMT -5
The same people who selected our current Administration and created the massive bureaucracies which constitute the government are the people who'd presume to second guess the wisdom of our founding fathers
They were wise men and had seen it all before the inception of the very idea of the new great frontier, the United States of America. The final remedy for an oppressive government is what the 2nd Amendment guaranteed (what now is being eroded as much as possible).
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workpublic
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Catch and release please
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Post by workpublic on Mar 10, 2011 13:40:17 GMT -5
parasite litigators or folks who are concerned that all citizens are protected by our constitutional rights..how do you differentiate and still protect those rights for all. Rep
by making the attorneys of frivolous lawsuits pay all the costs involved after they lose. would be a start
that would also curtail rich and powerful entities and people who know they are wrong from "outspending" the litigant who is in the right, but doesn't have the funds to ride out the court costs.
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safeharbor37
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Post by safeharbor37 on Mar 10, 2011 17:41:57 GMT -5
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Mar 10, 2011 19:36:43 GMT -5
Safe I usually look forward to your posts but on this one, honest I shut it off after 3/4 through it. This commentator from the UK was just yadda, yadding about what we all know. It is to soon to see what the final act will play out here in Egypt. It is insinuated by many of the experts that the Military will be important in the new government, more so then is the military in our country. That there has to be some time to get all the ducks in a row, and while the military has said that they would like to see elections in six months, now there are people, one in particuler who said he would be running for President that he fears the Brother Hood would be more organized then other groups , that has been known, thus more time would be needed before the elections. Then he goes off on the POTUS, so what is new here. Sorry my friend, this post of yours was not up to the standards I expect from you, no disrespect meant at all.
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Post by privateinvestor on Mar 11, 2011 12:02:50 GMT -5
Good Stuff Safeharbor. Harvard's Niall Ferguson makes some good point..and he is a preeminent scholar on this subject.
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Post by ed1066 on Mar 11, 2011 14:46:39 GMT -5
That's ok, right? The liberals keep telling us that the Muslim Brotherhood is no threat, despite their ties to terrorist organizations, radical Islamofascists and documented acts of terrorist violence going back decades. Plus, Obama really likes the Muslim Brotherhood, so what's the problem?
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Post by jarhead1976 on Mar 11, 2011 15:31:37 GMT -5
Good post safeharbor37, One of the key parts, toward the end of the video, Mr Ferguson says "that 80% of the population is poor and uneducated." Not a good combination when you add in MB. The destruction of Israel and western civilization is their only goal.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Mar 11, 2011 15:40:07 GMT -5
That's ok, right? The liberals keep telling us that the Muslim Brotherhood is no threat, despite their ties to terrorist organizations, radical Islamofascists and documented acts of terrorist violence going back decades. Plus, Obama really likes the Muslim Brotherhood, so what's the problem? I could ask for a link but why bother, as a sane man he is very concerned about them as we all are. Even though the espouse a different agenda today, peaceful participation in the electoral processes, whether they would stick to that once they were in power, politically, if they ever get to that point, is a question, I would wonder, and be worried, though I don't know what we could do about it if the populace decided to go that route, we are running out of money and troops, that option seems to be fading from the screen. {unless you have a solution and sorry, "Nuc em " is also off the table, much to messy.}
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Post by privateinvestor on Mar 11, 2011 15:50:15 GMT -5
That's ok, right? The liberals keep telling us that the Muslim Brotherhood is no threat, despite their ties to terrorist organizations, radical Islamofascists and documented acts of terrorist violence going back decades. Plus, Obama really likes the Muslim Brotherhood, so what's the problem? Sheila Jackson Lee said yesterday in the Congressional Hearings that she is more concerned about all the violence and crime in her district than she is about Muslims....and singling out Muslims is against our Constitution according to her as she waved her copy of the US Constitution during her 5 minutes speech but never asked any questions..
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Post by jarhead1976 on Mar 12, 2011 13:03:07 GMT -5
"Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29
This is the very foundation On what the MB stands for!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2011 13:16:54 GMT -5
I can find stuff like that in the bible too jarhead... and stuff in the Quran that is pro Christianity and forgiveness/peace...
Interesting how poverty and a lack of education can lead to sheeple... yet people don't seem to get that when they are talking about anti-poverty and educational policies in the United States
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Post by privateinvestor on Mar 12, 2011 17:29:56 GMT -5
I can find stuff like that in the bible too jarhead... and stuff in the Quran that is pro Christianity and forgiveness/peace... Interesting how poverty and a lack of education can lead to sheeple... yet people don't seem to get that when they are talking about anti-poverty and educational policies in the United States Then why do so many Muslims hate Jews and Christians if the Quran is pro Christianity and forgiveness/peace?? Aren't they supposed to follow the teachings in the Quran ?? One thing that came out of the Congressman King hearings on Thursday was that the Muslims leaders in the United States do want a dialog about their religeous beliefs...and any attempts to do so will be met with strong opposition by them ...
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safeharbor37
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Post by safeharbor37 on Mar 12, 2011 19:33:17 GMT -5
I understand this thread to be about the "Muslim Brotherhood" rather than Muslims in general or even other Muslim factions. It is off the subject to attack or defend the Muslim Religion as such. The Muslim Brotherhood is a specific group and our attention was drawn to them in the aftermath of the Egyptian crisis as the strongest political faction [even though outlawed as a political party] in Egypt. They seem to have connections worldwide with extremist groups [at least groups that the US considers extremist]. They deny association with most of those groups, but is that a denial of convenience or a reality? That is, "Who are they?" and what effect does that have on us?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2011 19:39:15 GMT -5
Aren't Christians supposed to follow the bible? Do all of them do it? ... Wasn't David Koresh a christian? Aren't those stupid people who try to ruin the funerals of soldiers and children calling themselves Christians? Do you want all Christians to be judged by the members of hutaree?
So why must all muslims answer for their radical factions, which distort the words of their religion (which by the way, also believes in the words of Jesus)... but the Christians don't have to answer for the radicalization of their factions which distort the words of their religion?
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Post by ed1066 on Mar 12, 2011 19:48:20 GMT -5
It is, but those on the left have a little problem. It's a problem with distinguishing the more subtle aspects of language.
For example:
Liberals cannot tell the difference between immigrants and ILLEGAL immigrants.
They cannot tell the difference between Muslims and RADICAL Muslims.
They cannot tell the difference between a newscaster and an entertainer.
They cannot tell the difference between legal gun owners and ILLEGAL gun owners.
You get the idea...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2011 19:56:18 GMT -5
This hearing is not about radical muslims... its about the radicalization of AMERICAN MUSLIMS...
So why aren't all Christians responsible for stopping the radicalization of Christian extremists? Why was the report on home grown conservative fundamentalists not too long ago ignored and panned... even though it has been shown to be a legitimate threat?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 12, 2011 19:57:32 GMT -5
It is, but those on the left have a little problem. It's a problem with distinguishing the more subtle aspects of language. For example: Liberals cannot tell the difference between immigrants and ILLEGAL immigrants. They cannot tell the difference between Muslims and RADICAL Muslims. They cannot tell the difference between a newscaster and an entertainer. They cannot tell the difference between legal gun owners and ILLEGAL gun owners. You get the idea... Ed-I think it is you who could use some rest and relaxation-not oped.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 12, 2011 20:02:20 GMT -5
This hearing is not about radical muslims... its about the radicalization of AMERICAN MUSLIMS... So why aren't all Christians responsible for stopping the radicalization of Christian extremists? Why was the report on home grown conservative fundamentalists not too long ago ignored and panned... even though it has been shown to be a legitimate threat? Maybe I need to start a new thread: March 11, 2011 Five 'Sovereign Citizens' plot to kidnap and kill Alaskan cops Members of the domestic terrorism group also plotted to kill a judge, claiming courts should have no authority over them By Sam Friedman Fairbanks Daily News-Miner FAIRBANKS, Alaska — Five people, including militia activist Schaeffer Cox, were arrested Thursday in the Fairbanks area for allegedly conspiring to kill multiple Alaska State Troopers and a federal judge. The group had stockpiled weapons and conducted surveillance on the homes of two troopers, according to Alaska State Troopers. Some of the weapons known to be in the cache are prohibited by state or federal law, according to troopers. In addition to Cox, those taken into custody are Lonnie and Karen Vernon of Salcha, Coleman Barney of North Pole and Michael Anderson, whose hometown was unclear. All were taken into custody without incident. The arrests were made by the Alaska State Troopers’ Special Emergency Reaction Team, along with Fairbanks troopers, the FBI, U.S. Marshal’s Service and the Fairbanks Police Department. U.S. District Court Judge Ralph Beistline was the judge targeted, U.S. Attorney Karen Loeffler said. Lonnie Vernon was recently indicted on the charge of threatening to kill Beistline, the chief judge for the U.S. District Court in Alaska, “in the fulfillment of his duties” and is the only member of the group facing federal charges, Loeffler said. Beistline is presiding over a tax-evasion case involving the Vernons. The five arrested Thursday face several state charges, including conspiracy to commit murder, conspiracy to commit kidnapping, conspiracy to commit arson, and tampering with evidence, according to troopers. More: www.policeone.com/homeland-security/articles/3421024-Five-Sovereign-Citizens-plot-to-kidnap-and-kill-Alaskan-cops/
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Post by ed1066 on Mar 12, 2011 20:35:14 GMT -5
I think it's you actually, you've definitely been overdoing it...
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vonnie6200
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Adopt a Shelter Pet
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Post by vonnie6200 on Mar 12, 2011 20:36:32 GMT -5
This hearing is not about radical muslims... its about the radicalization of AMERICAN MUSLIMS... So why aren't all Christians responsible for stopping the radicalization of Christian extremists? Why was the report on home grown conservative fundamentalists not too long ago ignored and panned... even though it has been shown to be a legitimate threat? Maybe I need to start a new thread: March 11, 2011 Five 'Sovereign Citizens' plot to kidnap and kill Alaskan cops Members of the domestic terrorism group also plotted to kill a judge, claiming courts should have no authority over them By Sam Friedman Fairbanks Daily News-Miner FAIRBANKS, Alaska — Five people, including militia activist Schaeffer Cox, were arrested Thursday in the Fairbanks area for allegedly conspiring to kill multiple Alaska State Troopers and a federal judge. The group had stockpiled weapons and conducted surveillance on the homes of two troopers, according to Alaska State Troopers. Some of the weapons known to be in the cache are prohibited by state or federal law, according to troopers. In addition to Cox, those taken into custody are Lonnie and Karen Vernon of Salcha, Coleman Barney of North Pole and Michael Anderson, whose hometown was unclear. All were taken into custody without incident. The arrests were made by the Alaska State Troopers’ Special Emergency Reaction Team, along with Fairbanks troopers, the FBI, U.S. Marshal’s Service and the Fairbanks Police Department. U.S. District Court Judge Ralph Beistline was the judge targeted, U.S. Attorney Karen Loeffler said. Lonnie Vernon was recently indicted on the charge of threatening to kill Beistline, the chief judge for the U.S. District Court in Alaska, “in the fulfillment of his duties” and is the only member of the group facing federal charges, Loeffler said. Beistline is presiding over a tax-evasion case involving the Vernons. The five arrested Thursday face several state charges, including conspiracy to commit murder, conspiracy to commit kidnapping, conspiracy to commit arson, and tampering with evidence, according to troopers. More: www.policeone.com/homeland-security/articles/3421024-Five-Sovereign-Citizens-plot-to-kidnap-and-kill-Alaskan-cops/And how do we know they are Christians?
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Post by ed1066 on Mar 12, 2011 20:42:12 GMT -5
Tennesseer racially profiled them and made some assumptions...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2011 20:43:21 GMT -5
conservative fundamentalists... or right wing extremism as it was discussed in the report suggesting the threat from such groups is on the rise... www.fas.org/irp/eprint/rightwing.pdf
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2011 20:45:06 GMT -5
All radicalization should be addressed... this should be a hearing on radical extremism, and as an extention... muslim extremists would be a part of that... as would Christian extremists, and right wing extremists, and animal rights extremists... etc...
That would be a legitimate concern and function...
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Mar 12, 2011 20:58:05 GMT -5
I think it's you actually, you've definitely been overdoing it... Easy all , lets take a deep breath, calm down, deep breath now, another, one more. The ya go. All better. Ok for being good boys and girls , here, this should give you a laugh, ok ed..for you a smirk. A little silver-haired lady calls her neighbor and says, "Please come over here and help me. I have a killer jigsaw puzzle, and I can't figure out how to get started." Her neighbor asks, "What is it supposed to be when it's finished?" The little silver haired lady says, "According to the picture on the box, it's a rooster." Her neighbor decides to go over and help with the puzzle. She lets him in and shows him where she has the puzzle spread all over the table. He studies the pieces for a moment, then looks at the box, then turns to her and says, "First of all, no matter what we do, we're not going to be able to assemble these pieces into anything resembling a rooster." He takes her hand and says, "Secondly, I want you to relax. Let's have a nice cup of tea, and then," he said with a deep sigh ............ (scroll down) If it posted You would see a box of Corn Flakes with a Rooster on the front "Let's put all the Corn Flakes back in the box."
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Mar 12, 2011 21:03:55 GMT -5
"........All radicalization should be addressed... this should be a hearing on radical extremism, and as an extention... muslim extremists would be a part of that... as would Christian extremists, and right wing extremists, and animal rights extremists... etc........"I believe just about all those groups have already been addressed, and incorporated into the watch lists of police forces everywhere. However I don't think the "Radicalization of muslims in America" has had such an inspection. After all these years, isn't it time one was conducted? With regard to the "Soverign Citizen" group, they are not new, and they do NOT espouse any religious tenets. They are plain anti government, and anti any societal structure that the US calls its foundation. Here is an excerpt of one write-up on "Soverign Citizens". Members of the sovereign citizen movement engage in a variety of seemingly bizarre activities. [Terry] Nichols, for instance, several times repudiated his allegiance to federal and state governments. He tried to pay a credit card debt with a fictitious financial instrument called a "certified fractional reserve check." Brought into court in Michigan in 1993, he refused to walk to the front of the courtroom and denied the court's jurisdiction over him. Even when he wrote addresses on letters, Nichols made sure to use the abbreviation "TDC" to indicate that he was using the federal zip code under "threat, duress and coercion." These exhibitions of behavior might seem odd or even humorous, but the same ideology that led to those activities also helped lead Terry Nichols to assist Timothy McVeigh in building a bomb that would kill 168 people and injure hundreds more. By then the sovereign citizen movement to which Nichols subscribed had embarked upon a nationwide resurgence that would last into the 21st century; its anti-government activities would cause problems in every region of the country.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2011 21:45:14 GMT -5
lol... there are reports on homegrown terrorism and radical muslims as well and they are on the watch lists as well... However, I see no hearing on Radicalization of Christian Americans or the Radicalization of Right Wing Extremists... in fact the latest report on increased right wing extremism was pretty much pooh poohed by certain representatives... ignored and passed over... I say fair play... if we have hearing on this... we should have hearings on all radicalized extremists... including abortion bombers and animal rights bombers as well...
I never said they were all religious groups... some are purely political... as i stated they were...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2011 22:13:26 GMT -5
"I bet when christians fly a couple of planes into the twin towers you'll see a hearing about how radical they are. "
I'm sorry... were you under the impression that it was AMERICANS who did that? This hearing is regarding AMERICANS...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2011 22:52:36 GMT -5
Sure about what exactly?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2011 23:03:37 GMT -5
Again... i'm not sure what you are talking about... This hearing is regarding AMERICANS...
From your link: "The overwhelming majority of Muslims are outstanding Americans. But the reality is that the threat is coming from within that community."
King said that if he thought members of the Irish, Jewish or any other ethnic community were exhibiting threatening signs he would launch an investigation into them as well. But he said al Qaeda is actively trying to radicalize American Muslims, with some success."
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