deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 8, 2011 15:27:43 GMT -5
There has been so much talk about the "Muslem Brother Hood" on the news, the talking heads..I found this article from a Lecanese web site, newspaper..found interesting that gives a look into who they and their leaders are in Egypt, the way they look at things..also their thoughts of shirer in the modern world and fears of some Arabs about them. Some here might also find interesting. ------------------------------------------------------------ www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=2&article_id=124675#axzz1DOnlXzvY-------------------------------------------------------------- "CAIRO: The first time Essam al-Erian went to jail, he was 27. On January 30 he left prison for the eighth time at the age of 57. The medical doctor’s crime for each incarceration was belonging to the Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt’s most influential and best-organized Islamist opposition movement and long feared by President Hosni Mubarak, Israel and the United States. Egypt’s courts have repeatedly rebuffed the Brotherhood’s requests for recognition as a party on the grounds that the Constitution bans parties based on religion. Now the world could not look more different to the past three decades when Brotherhood members were repressed, arrested, tried in military courts and shunned by the Egyptian government. After the last tumultuous days of popular revolt against Mubarak, it is now the government that is seeking out the Muslim Brotherhood to discuss Egypt’s future. The once outlawed group is finally well-placed to play a prominent role as Mubarak’s government struggles to survive after 30 years in power" ------------------------------------------------------------------- { To read complete article click on link}
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2011 17:40:03 GMT -5
I'm in a hurry, Dez, but ran in to this. Links and links and links. I'll check it out later, read a little, really need time.. www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=6386The Muslim Brotherhood's "General Strategic Goal" for North America The Muslim Brotherhood "Project" for Israel and America Hasan al-Banna Sayyid Qutb Yusuf al-Qaradawi much more.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 8, 2011 17:49:13 GMT -5
I'm in a hurry, Dez, but ran in to this. Links and links and links. I'll check it out later, read a little, really need time.. www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=6386The Muslim Brotherhood's "General Strategic Goal" for North America The Muslim Brotherhood "Project" for Israel and America Hasan al-Banna Sayyid Qutb Yusuf al-Qaradawi much more. Thanks, will check them out..more we really know about them , not just from the stuff some post here , personals and the talking heads on TV , written word from reputable sources, the better..seems they will be a important part of the equation in the future.
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Post by ed1066 on Feb 8, 2011 17:49:40 GMT -5
Good luck Krickett! If there's one thing I've found on this board, it's that getting the liberals to view a terrorist organization that advocates genocide and repressive sharia law as a bad thing is going to be a challenge (see the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, Fatah, etc)...you'll notice nowhere on this board, in any thread, is a liberal willing to step off the plantation and denounce the Muslim Brotherhood. They just can't do it...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2011 18:15:35 GMT -5
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Feb 8, 2011 18:26:37 GMT -5
This last statement clarifies that the concept of settlement is not intended solely to allow the Ikhwan-led Muslims in North America to live peacefully, but is, in fact, part of jihad or holy war for the conquest of the land by Islam. Adlouni is clear when he writes about the role of the Muslim Brother in North America, built on his previous statements, and is also clear that the Brothers must understand both the gravity and importance of their undertaking in the process of settlement: “The process of settlement is a “Civilization-Jihadist Process” with all the word means. The Ikhwan must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and “sabotaging” its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God’s religion is made victorious over all other religions. Without this level of understanding, we are not up to this challenge and have not prepared ourselves for Jihad yet. It is a Muslim’s destiny to perform Jihad and work wherever he is and wherever he lands until the final hour comes, and there is no escape from that destiny except for those who chose to slack. But, would the slackers and the Mujahedeen be equal.”www1.nefafoundation.org/miscellaneous/nefaikhwan1007.pdfBottom of pg. 11 into 12
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2011 18:26:48 GMT -5
pg. 21- 4- Understanding the role of the Muslim Brother in North America: The process of settlement is a "Civilization-Jihadist Process" with all the word means. The Ikhwan must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and "sabotaging" its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God's religion is made victorious over all other religions. Without this level of understanding, we are not up to this challenge and have not prepared ourselves for Jihad yet. It is a Muslim's destiny to perform Jihad and work wherever he is and wherever he lands until the final hour comes, and there is no escape from that destiny except for those who chose to slack. But, would the slackers and the Mujahedeen be equal.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 8, 2011 18:27:44 GMT -5
I'm in a hurry, Dez, but ran in to this. Links and links and links. I'll check it out later, read a little, really need time.. www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=6386The Muslim Brotherhood's "General Strategic Goal" for North America The Muslim Brotherhood "Project" for Israel and America Hasan al-Banna Sayyid Qutb Yusuf al-Qaradawi much more. It is my understanding David Horowitz, the founder of discoverthenetworks.org (a program of the David Horowitz Freedom Center) was a supporter of Huey P. Newton, and he held fundraisers for the Black Panther Party. His parents were avowed communists. I also read David Horowitz was a member of the Bertrand Russell Peace Foundation and he studied under Ralph Miliband (a British Marxist) and Isaac Deutscher (a Polish Marxist). Quite a resume of Horowitz' younger years.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Feb 8, 2011 18:28:56 GMT -5
Here Ed - I denounce terrorism and organizations that engage in terrorist acts or support terrorism. I also have a moral issue with sharia law, but if it is decided upon democratically then that is their business. That good enough for you?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2011 18:30:49 GMT -5
pg. 22 7- The conviction that the success of the settlement of Islam and its Movement in this country is a success to the global Islamic Movement and a true support for the sought-after state, God willing: There is a conviction - with which this memorandum disagrees - that our focus in attempting to settle Islam in this country will lead to negligence in our duty towards the global Islamic Movement in supporting its project to establish the state. We believe that the reply is in two segments: One - The success of the Movement in America in establishing an observant Islamic base with power and effectiveness will be the best support and aid to the global Movement project. And the second - is the global Movement has not succeeded yet in "distributing roles" to its branches, stating what is the needed from them as one of the participants or contributors to the project to establish the global Islamic state. The day this happens, the children of the American Lkhwani branch will have far-reaching impact and positions that make the ancestors proud.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 8, 2011 18:31:06 GMT -5
Good luck Krickett! If there's one thing I've found on this board, it's that getting the liberals to view a terrorist organization that advocates genocide and repressive sharia law as a bad thing is going to be a challenge (see the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, Fatah, etc)...you'll notice nowhere on this board, in any thread, is a liberal willing to step off the plantation and denounce the Muslim Brotherhood. They just can't do it... Ed-what exactly do you mean by "step off the plantation"? That is a rather unusual word (plantation) to use.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 8, 2011 18:35:28 GMT -5
Here Ed - I denounce terrorism and organizations that engage in terrorist acts or support terrorism. I also have a moral issue with sharia law, but if it is decided upon democratically then that is their business. That good enough for you? I think I could live with that too
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Post by ed1066 on Feb 8, 2011 18:37:41 GMT -5
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Feb 8, 2011 18:40:38 GMT -5
He's calling us racists. Just like Clinton called the GOP racists, I assume. Incredibly poor taste on both counts.
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Post by ed1066 on Feb 8, 2011 18:45:39 GMT -5
That's interesting. Proposition 8 was decided upon democratically by the voters of California. So you don't support efforts to overturn it without a vote?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2011 18:56:13 GMT -5
Interesting document, that PDF. Sounds just like the mission statment of any church, except the first several pages that explain how they want to take over our country with their jihad crap. I've found lots of other things, but most quote things from that PDF, so that is probably a good place to start.
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workpublic
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Post by workpublic on Feb 8, 2011 19:04:20 GMT -5
I also have a moral issue with sharia law, but if it is decided upon democratically then that is their business.
you don't see any fallacy with that logic?
democratically? really. will women have a say in the "democratic" process that chooses their oppression?
what "democratic" society would vote for totalitarian, religious persecution, backward thinking, misogynist rule?
which sharia law country voted in that system? we're gonna use our democracy to vote for oppression and in doing so replace our democracy with it.
democracy is an enlightened concept that didn't exist when sharia law was formed. it needs an enlightened populace to work.
imho there is no moral argument for shria law.
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Post by marjar on Feb 8, 2011 19:13:07 GMT -5
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Feb 8, 2011 19:21:10 GMT -5
I also have a moral issue with sharia law, but if it is decided upon democratically then that is their business. you don't see any fallacy with that logic? democratically? really. will women have a say in the "democratic" process that chooses their oppression? what "democratic" society would vote for totalitarian, religious persecution, backward thinking, misogynist rule? which sharia law country voted in that system? we're gonna use our democracy to vote for oppression and in doing so replace our democracy with it. democracy is an enlightened concept that didn't exist when sharia law was formed. it needs an enlightened populace to work. imho there is no moral argument for shria law. I agree 100% - and do not understand why any American would not get it
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 8, 2011 19:38:17 GMT -5
So your rationale is if Hillary Clinton can say it so can you. But you remembering Clinton used the word, IMHO, sounds like you found the word offensive yet you now believe it is okay to use the word. Interesting.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Feb 8, 2011 20:00:50 GMT -5
I don't oppose the democratic process under any circumstances. Sometimes it votes in a law or a government that I do oppose morally and ethically. And occasionally it results in a law that is unconstitutional which is when I then support our court system in dtermining. If said law is not found unconstitutional I will then have to use another democratic process and amend the constitution. Pretty simple really. *we* do not get to decide who the egyptian people vote for, we can only do our best to promote a fair process. What part of that is so hard for you to understand?
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workpublic
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Post by workpublic on Feb 8, 2011 20:32:36 GMT -5
*we* do not get to decide who the egyptian people vote for, neither do the people of eygpt. or mubarak wouldn't have won so many times by such a large margin. are women allowed to vote in eygpt yet? i'll check.
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workpublic
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Post by workpublic on Feb 8, 2011 20:39:56 GMT -5
yes they are. but it looks like they almost always have to choose men, except for quotas and a few countries that don't have quotas. i believe eygpt is the highest non quota country for women elected. good for them! i doubt the female eygptian politicians want to deal with a muslim brotherhood dominated society and they might not even know they are voting for it www.aolnews.com/2010/11/07/egypt-vote-saves-some-seats-for-women/
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Feb 8, 2011 20:40:21 GMT -5
They are fighting to be able to do so. Why do you think you have a say?
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 8, 2011 20:40:47 GMT -5
According to the posted article the Brother hood is proposing something along the lines of what many conservative groups have done here and else where..modernized their original beliefs to the times. Latter day saints..once poligimy was a important part of their beliefs, no longer.
Catholic Church has made hugh changes over the centuries..the inquisition, once all powerful, today gone. Hebrew sacrifice of animals at the temple, n temple, no sacrifices, bravches of the olf orthodoc while orthodox still tremaining , today reform and conservative branches very strong and larger.
Possible in Islam to , also changes. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Brotherhood, founded in 1928, wants democracy, except governed by the main principles of the Sharia. It had for long demanded greater political freedom, freedom of expression, free and fair elections where people of all trends are represented.
Supporters also dominate most of Egypt’s main professional syndicates, have strong a presence at universities and run thousands of charities providing health care and education.
But perhaps the most novel element in its manifesto is that it advocates “ijtihad,” or innovative interpretation of the Koran to bring Islamic law in tune with the demands of changing times.
The Brotherhood, founded in 1928, wants democracy, except governed by the main principles of the Sharia. It had for long demanded greater political freedom, freedom of expression, free and fair elections where people of all trends are represented.
Supporters also dominate most of Egypt’s main professional syndicates, have strong a presence at universities and run thousands of charities providing health care and education.
But perhaps the most novel element in its manifesto is that it advocates “ijtihad,” or innovative interpretation of the Koran to bring Islamic law in tune with the demands of changing times.
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Post by privateinvestor on Feb 8, 2011 20:42:06 GMT -5
In a few words the Muslim Brotherhood is not like al Qaeda but more like Hamas since they are anti-Israel and anti-American. However they do support Islamic terrorism and that is what has the Obama Administration very worried if they gain power in Egypt. And they have chapters here in the USA and hopefully being watched by other Moderate Muslims which is what the National Security Secretary Janet Napolitano has asked them to do. But don't bet on it..IMHO
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2011 20:46:09 GMT -5
I don't think this thread is about Egypt, guys. Dez has another one about Egypt. What we are doing here is trying to figure out the MB. My interest is in what they are up to right here in the USA. From what I have been able to read so far, and there is a lot out there-- anyone read the PDF I posted??-- they DO have a mission here, and it involves uniting all Muslims here through the activities listed in the PDF, with the specific goal of turning the USA in to an Islamic nation. That is just part of their plan, a big part, which is a global Islamic rule. That was written in 1991, and if you read it you will easily recognize how far they have come. They've gotten much further in the UK than they have here-- so far. Did anyone read the article I posted the other day about the UK Prime Minister that said they need to stop being so PC, letting people operate outside the mainstream of their society to HURT their society?? He said what they have been doing is a failure. Maybe since the jihad is further along there than here we should listen to him. I'll see if I can find that thread and repost that article here. No one liked that thread.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2011 20:52:35 GMT -5
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 8, 2011 20:59:19 GMT -5
I am not here to make apoligies of the Muslim Brotherhood..I am suggsting that while they may have started as a extremist group pushing their extremist dictrine , as time changed , and as seen done by other religiouse organizations , making changing over time , possible the brother hood has to.
The most novel and interesting part of their manefesto is their belief of "itjuhad"..a right to change interpetation of he tholy writings because of the times..of the two islamic faiths shia and sunnu that split in the 10th century and we in the west have become aware of , this is one of the main differences of the two, the right to interpet the writings the faith is based on because of the times. ijtihad
"In Islamic law, the analysis of problems not covered precisely in the Qur'an, the Hadith, or the scholarly consensus called the ijma'. In the early Muslim scholarly community, every jurist had the right to exercise such original thinking, but the growth of legal schools prompted Sunnite Muslim authorities to declare that the principal legal issues had been settled by the 10th century. Shi'ite Muslims have always recognized ijtihad, and jurists considered learned enough for this kind of analysis have great authority. In the 20th century an attempt was made to restore ijtihad among Sunnites to help Islam adapt to the modern world."
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 8, 2011 21:16:31 GMT -5
I am not here to make apoligies of the Muslim Brotherhood..I am suggsting that while they may have started as a extremist group pushing their extremist dictrine , as time changed , and as seen done by other religiouse organizations , making changing over time , possible the brother hood has to. The most novel and interesting part of their manefesto is their belief of "itjuhad"..a right to change interpetation of he tholy writings because of the times..of the two islamic faiths shia and sunnu that split in the 10th century and we in the west have become aware of , this is one of the main differences of the two, the right to interpet the writings the faith is based on because of the times. ijtihad "In Islamic law, the analysis of problems not covered precisely in the Qur'an, the Hadith, or the scholarly consensus called the ijma'. In the early Muslim scholarly community, every jurist had the right to exercise such original thinking, but the growth of legal schools prompted Sunnite Muslim authorities to declare that the principal legal issues had been settled by the 10th century. Shi'ite Muslims have always recognized ijtihad, and jurists considered learned enough for this kind of analysis have great authority. In the 20th century an attempt was made to restore ijtihad among Sunnites to help Islam adapt to the modern world." To expect to understand the difference tenents of Islam on a zone such as this is just a bit much. There are members here who really don't understand their own faith that they adhere to, just the basics , mostly having been exposed to by parents and thus stayed with, not all , but I would say most. Islam is the same , simple but complex, There is one side who says no interpertation of and another that says interperation due to the times is accepable. To listen to some who want to put all in one box as some are suggesting here is wrong and incorrect and if one wants to really understand what is going on , some study has to be done. Enough to say, there is a sect that the brotherhood subscribes to that does subscribe to "itjuhad "and that means due to the times interpetation are permitted of the holy writings to reflect the times."
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