susanb
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Post by susanb on Jul 11, 2012 22:34:30 GMT -5
Why would anyone encourage a boy to wear pink? Or allow him to do so? This is just fodder for the fire! You all know it. Freedom of expression? Give me a break! A child is not born with the knowledge of knowing what's wrong or right. What looks stupid or dumb. Come on parents!!!! Raise your children! Teach them morals and values! They are not an experiment for you to let run amok and 'see' what the end results will be! Like that old song says "You have to stand for something or you'll fall for anything!" No truer words have ever been spoken.... I am not a fan of baggy pants, but I don't know if rockin the judgy pants looks all that hot either. Maybe parents who are let their boys wear pink are teaching them values, they just have values that run deeper than the color of clothing.
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cranberry49
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Post by cranberry49 on Jul 11, 2012 22:43:16 GMT -5
Why would anyone encourage a boy to wear pink? Or allow him to do so? This is just fodder for the fire! You all know it. Freedom of expression? Give me a break! A child is not born with the knowledge of knowing what's wrong or right. What looks stupid or dumb. Come on parents!!!! Raise your children! Teach them morals and values! They are not an experiment for you to let run amok and 'see' what the end results will be! Like that old song says "You have to stand for something or you'll fall for anything!" No truer words have ever been spoken.... I am not a fan of baggy pants, but I don't know if rockin the judgy pants looks all that hot either. Maybe parents who are let their boys wear pink are teaching them values, they just have values that run deeper than the color of clothing. Possibly. However, don't you think you (generic you) need to be concerned about the consequences of this decision? AND to put a boy in girls clothing? PLUS it being pink? Well...that just screams wrong in so many ways!
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susanb
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Post by susanb on Jul 11, 2012 22:48:03 GMT -5
First of all, no one has mentioned putting a boy in girl's clothing. Male sportscasters on ESPN wear pink and purple ties all of the time. Boys can wear pink today without heading to the girls' department to buy it.
Second, of all please identify the moral value that is offended by wearing pink. In order for something to "scream wrong" to me I have to be able to identify the moral or value that is violated by the action. I can't do that in the case of pink vs. Cranberry.
Third, what are the consequences? I might be concerned about them if I had any idea what they might be. Note that I live in a city where a guy wearing pink is not worth noting. Perhaps it is different in the country? In other cities? I can't imagine anyone in LA or Las Vegas or Miami or New York caring about a kid in a pink shirt.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 11, 2012 22:53:17 GMT -5
I rock a pink shirt once in a while. Big frickin deal. If I had a son and he wanted one I don't give a flip. I've got much more important things to worry about with regards to raising him. If/when he got bullied about it at school that would be a great teachable moment about fitting in, self expression, the consequences of each, and self esteem in general.
You want to see some crazy judgmental looks; screw a little boy wearing a pink t-shirt to school, have a grown man wear one to a military unit picnic. I thought my commander was going to have a heart attack like on the spot. Every single person, officer and enlisted with over 10 years of service was either staring or made a comment directly to me about the shirt. The younger enlisted guys/gals (which I was at the time) didn't give a damn. It's a t-shirt, get over it. Granted most of the older guys didn't know about the rainbow pride tattoo down one girl's calf, and that all us younger guys knew that one of the guys was gay.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 11, 2012 22:53:56 GMT -5
Well...actually, the boy is wearing his sister's hand-me-downs. I suspect they were purchased from the girl department. I do know that there are men's clothing options in pink - but rarely are there pink puffy jackets in the men's department and pink rainboots made for men. This isn't a seemingly innocent pink polo shirt - these are girl clothes.
As cranberry noted - we aren't talking about adult rules here. Even in a city where adults are very open minded about fashion choices, elementary school can be a cruel place, with old-fashioned rules.
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susanb
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Post by susanb on Jul 11, 2012 22:56:14 GMT -5
I rock a pink shirt once in a while. Big frickin deal. If I had a son and he wanted one I don't give a flip. I've got much more important things to worry about with regards to raising him. If/when he got bullied about it at school that would be a great teachable moment about fitting in, self expression, the consequences of each, and self esteem in general. Really well expressed.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Jul 11, 2012 22:56:50 GMT -5
I think that's illegal. But I'm not sure about duct tape. That may be allowed. And it will hurt less.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 11, 2012 23:01:02 GMT -5
OK, I've been shopping for boys' clothing for 4 yrs now and I haven't seen ANY pink anything. Or purple. Or even yellow. Once I got passed the onesis, it's all pretty much blue, green, gray, etc. Some red and orange, some "team" colors, but no pink. And it doesn't have anything to do with morals or values, etc, but if I think for a second that kids will laugh at my kid and he has no clue that it might happen, you better believe it I won't let him wear it.
Lena
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susanb
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Post by susanb on Jul 11, 2012 23:02:16 GMT -5
Well...actually, the boy is wearing his sister's hand-me-downs. I suspect they were purchased from the girl department. I do know that there are men's clothing options in pink - but rarely are there pink puffy jackets in the men's department and pink rainboots made for men. This isn't a seemingly innocent pink polo shirt - these are girl clothes. As cranberry noted - we aren't talking about adult rules here. Even in a city where adults are very open minded about fashion choices, elementary school can be a cruel place, with old-fashioned rules. I am talking about Milee's son. I have no reason to think he is wearing girl's clothing. The whole world is a cruel place. I personally think the world is less cruel to people who have the confidence to do death defying acts like wear a pink shirt.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 11, 2012 23:02:24 GMT -5
LMAO!!!
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cranberry49
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Post by cranberry49 on Jul 11, 2012 23:02:53 GMT -5
[quote author="@susanb" timestamp="1342064883" source="/post/1137218/thread"]First of all, no one has mentioned putting a boy in girl's clothing.
Um...yes, they have..
A lot of his favorite pink clothes formerly belonged to his big sister. Since he happens to like the color, he's been inheriting her stuff for awhile now. But also, the family in general is very open and accepting and all about free expression. I can't imagine them refusing to buy him pink clothes because boys shouldn't wear pink even if he didn't have an older sister.
It's not so much the color, pink. It's the wearing of girls clothes and the puffy style.
It has to start somewhere?...
[/quote]
Bullying?
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 11, 2012 23:04:11 GMT -5
Except when that bullying becomes THE important thing you might have to worry about, bc, of course, all bullying has been nothing but super teachable moments.
Lena
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susanb
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Post by susanb on Jul 11, 2012 23:06:15 GMT -5
[quote author="@susanb" timestamp="1342064883" source="/post/1137218/thread"]
It has to start somewhere?...
[/quote]
Cranberry, this is not a value or a moral. Values are things like integrity, respect and honesty. Again, what is the specific value or moral offended by wearing a pink shirt?
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cranberry49
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Post by cranberry49 on Jul 11, 2012 23:08:56 GMT -5
[quote author="@susanb" timestamp="1342064883" source="/post/1137218/thread"]
It has to start somewhere?...
[/quote]
Cranberry, this is not a value or a moral. Values are things like integrity, respect and honesty. Again, what is the specific value or moral offended by wearing a pink shirt?[/quote]
I wasn't saying that letting a boy wear pink was not teaching them morals. I was stating that in general parents don't much do it anymore. The subject about wearing a pink shirt was another subject altogether. Guess I didn't do a good job in expressing myself. Sorry about that...
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jul 11, 2012 23:10:05 GMT -5
Except when that bullying becomes THE important thing you might have to worry about, bc, of course, all bullying has been nothing but super teachable moments. Unless youngish kids have drastically changed since I was one, the kids who get completely ostracized and bullied are the ones who "act weird". Ostracizing and bullying people based on their looks doesn't really happen until middle school when they get flooded with hormones and can't go ten seconds without thinking about how the opposite sex looks, whether they look attractive to them, etc., etc. I'm not saying bullying couldn't be a serious problem earlier, but it usually happens to the kid who wets his pants in class, not the kid who wears a funky t-shirt once in a while.
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cranberry49
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Post by cranberry49 on Jul 11, 2012 23:12:13 GMT -5
Letting a boy wear a pink shirt can lead to bullying. Parents that say they let the child decide what to do (wear, etc) in order to 'express' themselves can be putting their child in harms way. This was my point about this particular subject.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 11, 2012 23:16:39 GMT -5
Well - since the OP said this kid was being bullied for wearing a pink shirt, then maybe he was bullied for wearing a pink shirt. In reality, I suspect that this kid thinks outside the box on many more things than just thinking wearing his sister's clothes is awesome.
The problem with bullying - is that it starts for one reason, and continues and continues. So, yes, wet the pants, become the target - and now every single thing you do is a bullying offense. Eating a hot dog, kicking a soccer ball with your left foot, having your mom pick you up from school, etc. It's game over. I'm hoping to warn my kids before they get to that first offense, whatever it will be.
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cranberry49
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Post by cranberry49 on Jul 11, 2012 23:19:31 GMT -5
Well - since the OP said this kid was being bullied for wearing a pink shirt, then maybe he was bullied for wearing a pink shirt. In reality, I suspect that this kid thinks outside the box on many more things than just thinking wearing his sister's clothes is awesome. The problem with bullying - is that it starts for one reason, and continues and continues. So, yes, wet the pants, become the target - and now every single thing you do is a bullying offense. Eating a hot dog, kicking a soccer ball with your left foot, having your mom pick you up from school, etc. It's game over. I'm hoping to warn my kids before they get to that first offense, whatever it will be. Exactly my point! Someone has to be the parent and make the decisions for their child!
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 11, 2012 23:22:22 GMT -5
OK, since Thyme is saying what I would say, I am going to bed. Thank you, Thyme
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susanb
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Post by susanb on Jul 11, 2012 23:24:58 GMT -5
Good night, Lena. I have been inspired to go to my lawn and hope that kids come by so that I can yell at them to get off of it.
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susanb
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Post by susanb on Jul 11, 2012 23:36:02 GMT -5
Well - since the OP said this kid was being bullied for wearing a pink shirt, then maybe he was bullied for wearing a pink shirt. In reality, I suspect that this kid thinks outside the box on many more things than just thinking wearing his sister's clothes is awesome. The problem with bullying - is that it starts for one reason, and continues and continues. So, yes, wet the pants, become the target - and now every single thing you do is a bullying offense. Eating a hot dog, kicking a soccer ball with your left foot, having your mom pick you up from school, etc. It's game over. I'm hoping to warn my kids before they get to that first offense, whatever it will be. The OP said that the kid who was getting bullied because he likes to wear girls clothing has parents who do not let him wear pink clothes to school. The parent who lets their boy wear pink clothing to school is Milee who said her kid got teased a little, but has lots of friends and is happy. From what I can see of Milee, I bet her kid has a great personality. Yours too for that matter, Thyme. You are both super smart ladies with a lot of common sense.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 12, 2012 0:12:41 GMT -5
Firebird said in post 4 that she knows the boy - are we talking about two different kids - both wearing pink? I'm confused.
ROFL!
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jul 12, 2012 0:18:18 GMT -5
Well - since the OP said this kid was being bullied for wearing a pink shirt, then maybe he was bullied for wearing a pink shirt. In reality, I suspect that this kid thinks outside the box on many more things than just thinking wearing his sister's clothes is awesome. The problem with bullying - is that it starts for one reason, and continues and continues. So, yes, wet the pants, become the target - and now every single thing you do is a bullying offense. Eating a hot dog, kicking a soccer ball with your left foot, having your mom pick you up from school, etc. It's game over. I'm hoping to warn my kids before they get to that first offense, whatever it will be. The OP said that the kid who was getting bullied because he likes to wear girls clothing has parents who do not let him wear pink clothes to school. The conversation actually started in another thread "future wag" so some of the details are missing in this thread, but the boy in the op was allowed to wear his sis' pink hand-me-downs to school & was picked on enough that the parents actually transferred him to a different school. I like what FB said about explaining to a kid about potentially being picked on because of the clothes, but letting the kid make the decision. But I think that responsibility can't be given too young. For me, DS is super-sensitive & I would much rather be the bad guy & make a "no pink at school rule" than see him hurt because other kids picked on him. Seeing him cry because kids called him names would break my heart. Having him disagree with one of my many rules, well I'm the mom so it is going to happen .
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susanb
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Post by susanb on Jul 12, 2012 0:20:52 GMT -5
Firebird said in post 4 that she knows the boy - are we talking about two different kids - both wearing pink? I'm confused. ROFL! Yup. Post 76 Milee talks about her son wearing pink. Much of this page susanb talks about Milees kid to people talking about other kid wearing pink. So confusing. I am not even drunk, but maybe I should be.
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susanb
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Post by susanb on Jul 12, 2012 0:28:29 GMT -5
Angel, no one knows your kids like you do. I can completely understand protecting your child from harm.
My point is that wearing pink or even stronger gender bending isn't harmful for all kids.
I talked about the gender bending kid I knew. He was a bad little mo' fo'. His parents knew him well enough to know that he wasn't going to give a crap about being teased about wearing a necklace. Pictures he took took to school of his tent in 18 inches of snow had built his street cred.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 12, 2012 6:03:30 GMT -5
I think we are all guilty of judging. Even though some of you think I'm harsh <<eyes WWBG >> in real life, I judge silently...but I still judge. If I see a group of black kids that look like gang bangers (you know the look) I immediately cross the street, get my cell out and call my husband. If I saw the group of black kids dressed normally, I wouldn't give it a second thought. If I saw a group of white kids that looked like gang bangers I do the same thing. I work with an extremely obese woman (morbidly obese is an udnertatement). She struggles just walking from her desk to the copier...by struggles I mean it looks like it takes effort. When I see her scarfing down McD's at her desk, I judge her. She has a 9 year old son and I can't help but the of him...what is she teaching him? Doesn't she care about her health and living long for her son? If I am out and see a poster child for People of Wal-Mart, I judge them. I assume they are poor, on drugs, etc. I also judge teh other way...if someone is well dressed and put together, I assume they are successful. For all I know they could be buying drugs from the gang bangers I run from, but when I see them I don't think that.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jul 12, 2012 6:29:12 GMT -5
I think the fact that I let my kid wear pink to school makes a very clear statement about how much I value public opinion.
Most really successful people I know are aware of what the societal rules are but do not always choose to follow them.
BTW - a kid wearing pink doesn't cause bullying any more than a woman wearing a skirt causes rape. Bullying is a result of nasty, rude kids whose parents haven't done a good job of teaching them morals and values. Maybe we should be putting a little more focus on those little monsters than we should berating the kid and parents of the kid who is a good, kind, enjoyable human being who happens to have strange taste. I'm doing my job. Now if the other parents would just do theirs...
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marvholly
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Post by marvholly on Jul 12, 2012 6:45:30 GMT -5
In my mid teens I came to the realization:
90% of the people in this world don't give a rats behind about you in any way, shape or form.
O f the remaining 10% 5% are your friends & family and will like/love you no matter what (although they may lecture or tease you)
The final 5% just hate you no matter if, what, where, when or how.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jul 12, 2012 7:20:05 GMT -5
In my mid teens I came to the realization: 90% of the people in this world don't give a rats behind about you in any way, shape or form. O f the remaining 10% 5% are your friends & family and will like/love you no matter what (although they may lecture or tease you) The final 5% just hate you no matter if, what, where, when or how. I agree. I would say none of my coworkers could tell you what I wore yesterday. Most people just don't pay much attention to that kind of stuff.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jul 12, 2012 7:26:03 GMT -5
On the topic of boys wearing girls' clothes, Bill Bryson wrote a wonderful book about growing up in the 50's. His mom was a working mom and fairly scatterbrained. She often neglected to do the laundry and more than once Bill was sent to school in one of his sister's shirts because none of his were clean. The worst was when he didn't have any pants and his mom talked him into wearing a pair of his sister's pedal pushers - she told them they were superhero pants. He said he found out pretty quickly they weren't.
He was remembering the episode with humor, not anger - apparently the teasing he got for the peddlepushers didn't scar him for life, it just became another funny story about his mom.
It's called The Life and Times of the Thunderbolt Kid - very funny book.
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