Do you WANT to be a SAHS/P?

[whoisjohngalt]

OK, judging by all of your responses - I am not getting my point across very well, so, I am going to stop now

[swasat]

But...but....but... its so fuuuunnnnnnnn to be there FB

[Firebird]

OK, judging by all of your responses - I am not getting my point across very well, so, I am going to stop now

Lena, I think I understand what you're saying. You're suggesting that if your only objection to SAH with your kid is that you feel you wouldn't be good at it, you should try to do it anyway if you have reason to believe your kid wants it, right?

I wouldn't be against TRYING it in that situation, if all else was equal (i.e., no financial considerations). But if it wasn't working out, then yeah, I'd go back to work even if the "only" reason it wasn't working out was that it was making me unhappy. Because if I'm unhappy, I'm not going to be as effective as a parent. My kid would have no way of understanding that, but it wouldn't stop him or her from suffering from it if I carried on SAH.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I think I get where you are coming from Lena, but I don't think anyone on here is really so selfish that they would do ONLY what is best for them and never consider the kid.

Most of us are trying to find a balance between the two. I believe the scales tip more in my/DH's favor than Gwen's because we are the adults, but that doesn't mean I pull the majority vote on everything just because I can.

[Firebird]

May 16, 2012 14:40:44 GMT -5 swasat said:

But...but....but... its so fuuuunnnnnnnn to be there FB

As long as you're in there, want to help me declutter a bit? ;D

[swasat]

May 16, 2012 14:44:36 GMT -5 Firebird said:

May 16, 2012 14:40:44 GMT -5 swasat said:

But...but....but... its so fuuuunnnnnnnn to be there FB

As long as you're in there, want to help me declutter a bit? ;D

Umm... No! You do the grunt work, I'll just enjoy my stay and be an obnoxious guest ;D

[Firebird]

Fine, whatever. Don't eat all the good cereal.

[giramomma]

May 16, 2012 14:33:08 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Which interests though? There aren't many families that can afford to have a spouse stay home, and still save much for juniors future college costs. Which is the bigger disservice to the kid; daycare or the parents not helping with college? If the working spouse has to get a second job to let the non working spouse stay home, are they still doing what's in the best interest of the kid? Junior will have mommy around 24/7, but will hardly ever see daddy. Is that doing him a favor, or not?

But it doesn't have to be all black and white. We CAN afford to have the SAHP lifestyle. But, we planned for it. So while everyone else our age was getting car loans to have nice cars, and going out and other nice things, we were driving around our crappy cars (mine was 16 years old) and living in our crappy apartment so that we had money saved up.

We only lived craptacularly for a few years. We're in our mid 30's, and now we have a nice house, nice cars (less than a 5 years old for both), we go on vacations, do private school, etc. We don't make a sh*t ton of money either, sitting in the 15% tax bracket. We also live in a medium COLA.

Now, I don't begrudge someone who wants nice things. Hell, I wanted nice things too. But, they have to realize that there's a trade off for living nicely when you are just starting out.

You also assume that a second income means there's enough to save for college. In our case, that wouldn't be true. We'd actually lose money if our kids went to daycare. Our daycare bills would run 2400-2600/month for two school aged kids and an infant. If my DH worked full time, he'd net 2400. And that's without putting any money away for retirement.

I do work a second job. Only because it makes more sense. I earn 30-40/hour at my second job. My DH will never make that kind of money. And, yes, my DH has to tuck my kids into bed two nights a week, and yes, he supervises the homework. BUT, I'm still volunteering in the schools as much as a SAHP does. Last year, I was room mom for #1. Generally, I'm in the school a few times a month. I haven't missed a school concert, play, presentation, or mother's day tea. I'm also the one that does all the clothes shopping, party planning, and arranging for my kids' social calendar. And, I do most of the get kids ready for school in the morning duty, and I handle homework duty Fri-Sunday.

My kids and I have a pretty darn good relationship. It does mean that sometimes I'm working at 11pm. But, I don't mind.

As for college, we are fortunate that the grandparents help out. But, it was at our request, and they do that instead of giving our kids a ton of gifts. It's a win-win all around. Our kids are also spaced out so that we'll only have one in college at a time (hopefully). I'm planning to help cashflow some college costs as we get there. We also will be giving our kids some guidelines on where they can go to school-in terms of cost.

[giramomma]

Because if I'm unhappy, I'm not going to be as effective as a parent. My kid would have no way of understanding that, but it wouldn't stop him or her from suffering from it if I carried on SAH.

As a parent, I don't get that line, either. You can still be a good parent and be unhappy.


I also don't really care for my day job. I haven't for about 5 years now. But, I stay because of all the perks, the flexibility, good benefits. Etc. I still am a pretty darn good parent.

There have been other family things that have cause me unhappiness. My kids haven't suffered from that.

[Firebird]

As a parent, I don't get that line, either. You can still be a good parent and be unhappy.

Point taken, I said that a bit simplistically. Obviously no one is always totally and completely happy (nor should they be) and sometimes life can really suck. And of course you can still be a good parent while you're less than 100% thrilled with the way things are going.

But in this specific context, if staying home with my kid is going to create unhappiness and resentment, you can definitely make a case that it's not ideal for my kid for me to be unhappy for THAT reason. Other reasons, sure. Things that are out of our control, that's life. However, I think that staying home with a kid "for the good of that kid" against my better judgment and against my will would lead to serious resentment toward the kid itself, which would eventually take its toll on how effectively I parented.

[Firebird]

To put it a different way, I don't think that martyring yourself for the sake of your kids is a good way to parent. And doing something you don't want to do (that won't hurt the kid if you don't do it) for no other reason than because you believe the kid's desires are more important than yours, that's kind of being a martyr.

[quince]

May 16, 2012 14:35:05 GMT -5 Firebird said:

Generally, I fall much more on the side of "your kid is an independent person with thoughts and feelings that should be respected, no matter how young s/he is" than the side of "suck it up buttercup" when it comes to parenting, so I get where you're coming from here.

I agree with this (And many other things said by FB!) SO much. Being a separate person with priorities that should be respected, and not ignored, doesn't mean the same as being a person who always gets their way.

Personally, I hope that our children will be members of our family- not the REASON for our family. Their needs and wants will get as much attention as any other family member's needs and wants. Sometimes they will get their way, sometimes they won't.

What if someone is a SAHP and their 8 year old tells them to go get a job because they want the family to be able to afford designer clothes or annual trips to Disneyland? Or tells their parents that they want a pony. Maybe the parents COULD afford the pony if they drop their iPhone or cable, or hobbies, or foods they like. Just because something is financially possible doesn't mean you have to give it to your children because they want it.

[Mardi Gras Audrey]

Lena,

I understand what you are saying. I think that people need to remember that there is a reason that we are the adults and children are children. They don't always get what they want and sometimes what they want isn't what's best for them (Dark's candy example). The adults in families override children's wishes to make sure they are healthy (Eating vegetables! Going to school! Doing homework!) and adults in society override children's wishes (Neglected/abused kid wants to live with crackhead mom. CPS/DCFS steps in because it isn't good for the child no matter how much they want it) all the time.

I think a child's perspective and opinion is very important but I also think that we as parents/adults have to consider the longterm picture. If I know that staying home all day would make me depressed and a lesser parent, I need to override my child's desire to stay home with them all day. Would I try to accomodate all of their wishes? Absolutely. But if it is going to cause problems (I would imagine that a child whose mom got depressed and was miserable because she was staying at home is going to end up with a lot of guilt and other issues. Kids are smart and know what's going on around them. If they notice that Mama because "mean" and stopped getting out of bed once she stayed home with me, that is a huge burden to put on a child.).

This is another example of why I think people who recognize that they cannot be good parents and give their children up for adoption should be commended. The issues that come along with being raised by bad parents are well known and those are burdens that we should avoid giving to our children, if possible.

[whoisjohngalt]

Audrely, I understand and actually agree with you - in theory. I wonder though, how it works it practice. May be I am just bringing my own baggage to this. Like I said - I HATED daycare and could have stayed home, but my mom thought she knew better what was good for me. Well, she was wrong, she was wrong the whole 3 yrs. I am very close with my parents and really don't hold any resentment about that, but I always think back to that when I am "deciding" for my boys. Yes, vegetables vs candy is an easy one. But I do wonder how to find that balance between doing what YOU think is best for your child and family as a whole vs listening and doing what HE wants.

Lena

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

But I do wonder how to find that balance between doing what YOU think is best for your child and family as a whole vs listening and doing what HE wants

When you find the magical solution please share with the rest of the class.

I don't think that martyring yourself for the sake of your kids is a good way to parent. And



I hate to keep harping on Kinetic Kid but she's a perfect example of just that and when I read her posts it makes me really sad for her.

I don't want to end up like that.

[telephus44]

I understand where you're coming from Lena. I think for most people, parenting decisions are largely influenced by how they were raised, whether they liked it or not.

My DH's parents put him in daycare for 3 or 4 months when he was 3. At the time, he had an eye patch on and was teased by the other kids mercilessly. He had a really rough time and cried every day, so eventually they decided to work opposite shifts so that they wouldn't have to use daycare. To this day, she thinks all daycare places are evil. DH recognizes that he had an eye patch, and that bullying wasn't taken seriously in the 70's.

I do agree that kids should have a voice in these kinds of decisions, but that as a parent, we need to prioritize the good of the entire family, not just the children. For example, this week my son has been complaining that he doesn't want to go to school because he knows all his letters. Sure, we could afford for me to quit my job and homeschool him. But I don't want to homeschool him. Does that automatically make me a bad parent because we could afford it and I just don't want to? I don't think so. (FTR, we are addressing this, not just letting him be bored).

[Sum Dum Gai]

But I do wonder how to find that balance between doing what YOU think is best for your child and family as a whole vs listening and doing what HE wants.

I don't know how other people do it, and I sure as hell don't know if I'm doing it "right", but in our house my wife and I make the final call. Always. Our kids aren't even teenagers yet. They don't really understand long term consequences, or have the ability to think through them. It's not that we never get their input, but they're our kids and it's our duty to watch out for their best interests. They aren't like equal partners.

[Deleted]

Everyone has choices to make. Do what works for you and your family. It isn't anyone else's business.

[raeoflyte]

And here I am having mommy guilt that my kid isn't in daycare or preschool. I worry that he's missing out on all kinds of social and learning things that we just didn't think to do.

I knew going into it that being a mom was about worry and guilt, so I guess I'm doing okay since I've got a lot of both.

[Firebird]

Personally, I hope that our children will be members of our family- not the REASON for our family. Their needs and wants will get as much attention as any other family member's needs and wants. Sometimes they will get their way, sometimes they won't.

Well put.

[Firebird]

Like I said - I HATED daycare and could have stayed home, but my mom thought she knew better what was good for me. Well, she was wrong, she was wrong the whole 3 yrs.

Why did you hate it so much? I think that's a really key question.

[Firebird]

I knew going into it that being a mom was about worry and guilt, so I guess I'm doing okay since I've got a lot of both.

Aww raeoflyte

I think being a mom or a dad is about doing your best for your kid. I think you're doing just fine.

[happyhoix]

May 16, 2012 16:05:12 GMT -5 Firebird said:

To put it a different way, I don't think that martyring yourself for the sake of your kids is a good way to parent. And doing something you don't want to do (that won't hurt the kid if you don't do it) for no other reason than because you believe the kid's desires are more important than yours, that's kind of being a martyr.

Yes this is a terrible way to grow up. Mom was a martyr, she hated cleaning, hated cooking, hated having to do the grocery shopping and driving the kids around to various after school activities. She did not EVER let us forget how unhappy she was. Her rage and frustration at being responsible for running the household often boiled over into screaming tantrums or physical violence.

It would have been so much better if she worked. She would have been happier, we would have been happier, Dad wouldn't have come home every day to a furious wife and crying kids.

I know she probably intended to be a kind of Leave it to Beaver perfect wife and mother, but she just wasn't cut out for it. Unfortunately she was a mom at the time when most middle class women didn't work.

[Firebird]

That's exactly the kind of situation I'd want to avoid. Even if I didn't ever get to the point of physical rage, if I felt resentful about my (lack of) work situation I could easily see that resentment punishing my kids unduly.

[Deleted]

Resentment can work both ways. A mom that has to work a lot who wants to be home may feel resentment and take it out on her family as well. Or the kids could feel resentment about not having parents who were around enough either. It can cut either way, it isn't just "if i stay home i will resent it".

[Firebird]

It can cut either way, it isn't just "if i stay home i will resent it".

I didn't say it was, but in the context of the discussion this would be a case of a mom staying home when she didn't want to but felt she "should" and resenting it.

If the mom wanted to stay home, no problem.

[Deleted]

Agree. Everyone just needs to find their own thing. Sometimes people think they have to somehow justify their decisions or make their case. They don't. If someone wants to be a SAHM, be one. If someone wants to have a high powered career, do it. It doesn't have to be some battle of "my way is better than yours or vice versa". I really hate the whole undertone of Wahms and Sahms.

[Firebird]

Sometimes people think they have to somehow justify their decisions or make their case. They don't. If someone wants to be a SAHM, be one. If someone wants to have a high powered career, do it. It doesn't have to be some battle of "my way is better than yours or vice versa". I really hate the whole undertone of Wahms and Sahms.

Wow, a shooby statement I can completely agree with and support. I think I need to go lie down

[Deleted]

;D Listen carefully Firebird. We might have more in common than you think.

[Deleted]

May 17, 2012 15:32:51 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

May 16, 2012 16:05:12 GMT -5 Firebird said:

To put it a different way, I don't think that martyring yourself for the sake of your kids is a good way to parent. And doing something you don't want to do (that won't hurt the kid if you don't do it) for no other reason than because you believe the kid's desires are more important than yours, that's kind of being a martyr.

Yes this is a terrible way to grow up. Mom was a martyr, she hated cleaning, hated cooking, hated having to do the grocery shopping and driving the kids around to various after school activities. She did not EVER let us forget how unhappy she was. Her rage and frustration at being responsible for running the household often boiled over into screaming tantrums or physical violence.

It would have been so much better if she worked. She would have been happier, we would have been happier, Dad wouldn't have come home every day to a furious wife and crying kids.

I know she probably intended to be a kind of Leave it to Beaver perfect wife and mother, but she just wasn't cut out for it. Unfortunately she was a mom at the time when most middle class women didn't work.

I harbored some resentment toward DH when I was home with DS. It wasn't fair that he got to "get away" and go to work and I was stuck at home with the baby. Not to mention I still had to do all the cooking and cleaning. I often BEGGED him to let me do the grocery shopping because it was the only way that I could have some time away from the house. I'd love to be with DS more, but I can't be home 24/7 or I will go ape-shit crazy.