Big wedding when you're already married

[Deleted]

Apr 26, 2012 5:26:33 GMT -5 Cookies Galore said:

Apr 25, 2012 18:04:29 GMT -5 Firebird said:

But does that mean as women that we can't have opinions? Or rather, that we can collect as many as we want for our own personal use?

more inclusive: opinions are like assholes. Everybody has one. ;D

[zibazinski]

The first one was born in Germany. I doubt she had one there.

[zibazinski]

[reader79]

Shanendoah, I wouldn't have the shower until the baby is actually in your possession. Papers signed, done deal, no backsies. My coworker had two different birth mothers change their minds. One a few weeks before birth, the second a few days after. He was in the delivery room for the second child. She kept dragging her feet on signing the papers, and then told him that she couldn't. It was heartbreaking for all of us. But on a brighter note, she changed her mind again a few weeks later and he now has a daughter.

And he kept my gift card from the first shower. I told him that he would eventually need it, so he might as well save it.

[Firebird]

If I had a friend adopting a child, I'd happily attend a shower (or whatever they called it), to celebrate the addition to the family. That's what friends do, share our joy and celebrate the good things in life.

Me too (in case this wasn't already clear). In fact, if we're living in Seattle when you get your kiddo, I will happily throw you one! I'm excited for you and DH too

[formerroomate99]

Back to the OP, no matter how you slice it, the lying is being done for selfish reasons, whether it be to get a free party and gifts or to not have to deal with disappointed or judgmental family members. Of course, there are also good intentions involved too--wanting to please the people you love.

Personally, I'd rather have my family say I'm eccentric than say I have no integrity. Being a little odd doesn't make you untrustworthy, being a liar does. And if I found out that my family or friends were in the habit of lying every time they suspected there might be any type of unpleasant consequences, that person would either be cut loose or kept at arms length. It's not that I'm so greatly offended by the dishonesty that I can't be friends with such a person. My friends have all kinds of faults, quirks and foibles. I've been let down and stabbed in the back too many times by people like that to think it is worth it.

[telephus44]

If I ever get married again, I'm sending out a survey before the invitations. It's going to read something like this:

Will you or your guest (who I may never have met) take offense at any of the following:
_ Bride or Groom has been married before
_Wedding will not be held in a church
_Legal marraige paperwork is filed on a different day than the wedding ceremony
_Wedding is taking place because one party is being deployed on leave
_Wedding is taking place because one party needs a green card/health insurance/other legal benefits
_Bride is already pregnant
_Wedding ceremony is taking place but no legal paperwork will be filed
_Your presence is requested at the ceremony but not the document signing
_Your presence is requested at the ceremony but not the consumation
_Your presence is requested at the reception but not the ceremony
_Bride or groom's parents are paying for the wedding
_Bride and groom are taking out a loan for the wedding



And anyone who checks ANY box will automatically be taken off the guest list.

[shanendoah]

There is no shower or anything planned at the moment. And chances are, there won't be time to plan anything before the child is in our home. Our agency places 8-10 babies through infant relinquishment a year. They generally have about 30 families on that list at a time. It is much more likely we will have an infant or toddler placed with us through the foster to adopt program. Our time frame from match to in our home could be as little as 48 hours.
Since we will have no idea about age, gender, etc., until a match is made, there is no plan for a celebration at this point.
I would hope that we have a child in our home before Firebird and her family move up to Seattle, (since that's at least a year away), but it is very possible that we won't.

I was just responding to hoops's comment that if he gets invited to my baby shower, I'd better be pregnant. There is so much discrimination built in to our system against adoptive parents already that I couldn't not say anything.

[CarolinaKat]

Apr 26, 2012 11:02:30 GMT -5 shanendoah said:

There is no shower or anything planned at the moment. And chances are, there won't be time to plan anything before the child is in our home. Our agency places 8-10 babies through infant relinquishment a year. They generally have about 30 families on that list at a time. It is much more likely we will have an infant or toddler placed with us through the foster to adopt program. Our time frame from match to in our home could be as little as 48 hours.
Since we will have no idea about age, gender, etc., until a match is made, there is no plan for a celebration at this point.
I would hope that we have a child in our home before Firebird and her family move up to Seattle, (since that's at least a year away), but it is very possible that we won't.

I was just responding to hoops's comment that if he gets invited to my baby shower, I'd better be pregnant. There is so much discrimination built in to our system against adoptive parents already that I couldn't not say anything.

Okay, just have a "Come meet the Newest Family Member" or "Look Who's Home Now" or "HEY! We have a kid" party

[Firebird]

Of course, there are also good intentions involved too--wanting to please the people you love.

This may sound weird but I hope my kids don't go too far in wanting to please me and DH (or anyone else really). The most important thing I've ever learned is that my life works best when I live it for ME, not for anyone else.

Pleasing other people sounds like a nice premise - for some people, maybe it even justifies telling a little "white lie" here and there - but in my experience, it's so much better to just be upfront with your choices and take the consequences. Not even because lying is the ultimate offense against mankind - it isn't, at all - but because if you have to hide the truth of who you are from the people who are supposed to love you, then they're not worth having around anyway.

[Firebird]

Our agency places 8-10 babies through infant relinquishment a year.

What a terrible term

Random question - what happens to infants that are dropped off at safe havens? Do they go straight into foster homes or is there someplace that takes care of them for a given period of time before they can be considered abandoned?

Also, what about the other parent? Theoretically, DH or I could take our new baby to another state and anonymously drop it off without the other one knowing, right? But if either of us did that, the other would never stop looking for the baby. How can you establish to a reasonable certainty that no one wants the baby anymore? Is there some kind of database you can check if your baby disappears to make sure no one dropped it off without your knowledge or permission?

[hoops902]

"I was just responding to hoops's comment that if he gets invited to my baby shower, I'd better be pregnant. There is so much discrimination built in to our system against adoptive parents already that I couldn't not say anything. "

I also said that if everyone knows what's going on, you can call it whatever you want. But I better not show up to a baby shower for your 7 year old biological child that you never had a shower for and just decided you really wanted the experience of having a baby shower.

It had nothing really to do with adoption, it had to do with deciding to hold the "party" many years after the event while pretending the event was actually taking place. But even with adoption, yeah, you'd better be pregnant if you're just going to invite me to a baby shower. Or alternatively you need to let me know what the heck is going on and that you're adopting. Like I said, call it whatever you want if everyone knows what's actually happening, just don't call it something which specifically implies I'm being invited to one thing, when I'm really being invited to something else. Baby shower is easier for close friends and family, because they probably know if you're pregnant or not. But I don't particularly wanna show up to your "baby shower" with newborn toys/clothes only to find out that your "baby" is really 10 months old and adopted. Calling it a baby shower is fine, calling it a baby shower when it's not a baby shower, and nobody has any idea it's not really a baby shower kind of isn't.

[Firebird]

I was just responding to hoops's comment that if he gets invited to my baby shower, I'd better be pregnant. There is so much discrimination built in to our system against adoptive parents already that I couldn't not say anything.

Also, I don't think hoops was necessarily saying that adoptive parents aren't really parents - just that a baby shower implies a pregnant mom (and people sometimes bring specifically post-partum gifts that have to do with nursing, post-maternity outfits, what have you), so he would want it made clear if you were adopting versus having a baby.

I wouldn't care that much because I always make a baby blanket or a little hat but actually, to the extent that you might be getting an older child it would be helpful to know if we should bring baby presents or not.

ETA: I posted before seeing what hoops wrote above. I can also see why it would be a little annoying if you hadn't seen your friend in eight years and they invited you to their baby shower on Facebook and it turned out to be a random party for her two-year-old.

[formerroomate99]

My cousin had a baby shower when she adopted, but she was very upfront about the fact that it was an adoption, and you could tell from the registry what the age of the child was. Personally, I find the practice of inviting someone you aren't close to to a shower to be rather tacky, and I no longer participate in such events, because they are so obviously a shakedown.

[Firebird]

Personally, I find the practice of inviting someone you aren't close to to a shower to be rather tacky, and I no longer participate in such events, because they are so obviously a shakedown.

Do you actually throw yourself baby showers? I always assumed that, like wedding showers, it was tacky to plan your own no matter who you invited.

I didn't care if I didn't get a wedding shower and I don't care if I get a baby shower, but I ain't planning shit It would feel and seem like a gift grab if I tried to manufacture a party with the three or four friends and dozen or so friendly acquaintances I have in this area.

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"...elfish reasons, whether it be to get a free party and gifts or to not have to deal with disappointed or judgmental family members. Of course, there are also good intentions involved too--wanting to please the people you love.":::...

If I were in that position, my rationale might be "because my family chooses not to be OK with the fact that we married earlier". It all depends on whose lens you look through.

[formerroomate99]

Do you actually throw yourself baby showers? I always assumed that, like wedding showers, it was tacky to plan your own no matter who you invited.

Generally, the guest of honor has some control over the guest list. Other than work showers, I don't think I've ever been to a shower where I knew the person throwing it, so there is no way I would have gotten an invitation had the guest of honor not given the shower thrower my name and addresss.

[shanendoah]

Someone else throws the baby shower, but the guest of honor is usually asked to create the guest list. At least, that's how I worked it when I threw a pantry party for friends getting married. I asked the bride and groom to provide me with a list of who they wanted invited. I met lots of people I only ever saw again at the wedding.
Trust me, no one on my guest list would be surprised by the adoption.
If people at my work wanted to throw me a shower, I would make sure that everyone invited knew the circumstances so that no one showed up with an inappropriate gift (to save them the embarrasement- I would be gracious, regardless). Because while you can generally tell the age of the child from the registry, some people just don't have time to get to the store(s) you registered at, and will pick something up off registry.
Of course, because I'm not on a big team, it's unlikely I'd get a baby shower at work. Which is fine.
I had no bridal showers/bachelorette parties. And I'd be fine without a shower/welcome to the family party, too. But I have friends now who would be super excited to throw me one, so I expect it will happen.

hoops: It's one of those things I'm extra sensitive about at the moment because of the issues I'm facing here. There are a lot of situations where I feel I am being penalized for not giving birth, and it's bugging me. And so, I'm taking casual comments perhaps a little too seriously, or more literally than they were meant.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

It's one of those things I'm extra sensitive about at the moment because of the issues I'm facing here. There are a lot of situations where I feel I am being penalized for not giving birth, and it's bugging me. And so, I'm taking casual comments perhaps a little too seriously, or more literally than they were meant

I believe a poster named Miss Margarita over on EE has two adopted boys. You might want to PM her.

[Firebird]

hoops: It's one of those things I'm extra sensitive about at the moment because of the issues I'm facing here. There are a lot of situations where I feel I am being penalized for not giving birth, and it's bugging me. And so, I'm taking casual comments perhaps a little too seriously, or more literally than they were meant.



I think what you're doing is awesome! To be honest, when I contemplate what you and your DH are going through I almost feel selfish for wanting to procreate. If every set of prospective adoptive/foster parents was like you and we had a ton more of them, the system wouldn't be fucked up like it is.

I don't think I have it in me to do what you're doing. If one choice IS more "virtuous" than the other, I think it's adoption over giving birth. If people are making you feel bad about it, then screw them. Seriously. I know it's not always that easy but adopting a child, even as an infant, is amazing. AND you're willing to take an older child, which not everyone else is willing to do.

[reader79]

If you do get an older child, let me know. I can send a ton of books out from the office.

[midjd]

I don't think I have it in me to do what you're doing. If one choice IS more "virtuous" than the other, I think it's adoption over giving birth. If people are making you feel bad about it, then screw them. Seriously. I know it's not always that easy but adopting a child, even as an infant, is amazing. AND you're willing to take an older child, which not everyone else is willing to do.

to every word of that.

[thyme4change]

I've been to several showers for adopted babies, but none that were older. However, I wouldn't look down on you for it. The other thing you can do is throw a big birthday party and ask people to bring a wide variety of things - toys, clothes, etc.

[swamp]

Apr 26, 2012 12:52:35 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

It's one of those things I'm extra sensitive about at the moment because of the issues I'm facing here. There are a lot of situations where I feel I am being penalized for not giving birth, and it's bugging me. And so, I'm taking casual comments perhaps a little too seriously, or more literally than they were meant

I believe a poster named Miss Margarita over on EE has two adopted boys. You might want to PM her.

Miss Margarita got to drink at her baby shower.

[swamp]

Apr 26, 2012 13:19:52 GMT -5 midjd said:

I don't think I have it in me to do what you're doing. If one choice IS more "virtuous" than the other, I think it's adoption over giving birth. If people are making you feel bad about it, then screw them. Seriously. I know it's not always that easy but adopting a child, even as an infant, is amazing. AND you're willing to take an older child, which not everyone else is willing to do.

to every word of that.

If someone is giving you attitude for adopting a child, they need to be punched. Seriously.

[shanendoah]

I did not realize Miss Margarita had two adopted kids. I may PM her.
No one is giving us grief. Let me start with that.
All the paperwork and medical tests and trainings are frustrating- I mean, no one requires that you read three parenting books (and write book reports), watch DVDs, and attend trainings before you get pregnant. I'm not saying most people don't do some of those things (or even all of them), but the fact that I have to do it before they'll even think about giving me a kid.
And I have to provide 3 years of tax returns and a financial statement to prove we have the money to care for the kid.
Plus, all the hoops we have to jump through to become foster care certified.

But actually, my biggest problem is in dealing with paid leave. FMLA protects the exact same 12 weeks regardless. But paid parental leave is 100% focused on women giving birth. (For the record, men face the same issues I am, and I don't think that's right, either.) In WA, maternity leave is considered disability for 6-8 weeks, with disability paying at 67%. For those women, taking 6 weeks off only takes up 2 weeks of PTO, if they want to be paid at 100%. Taking all 12 weeks off costs them 8 weeks of PTO. If I want to take 6 weeks off (the minimum it is assumed new moms will be off), I need to have 6 weeks of PTO saved up. It is not possible for me to get 12 weeks worth of PTO. (I'm capped at a little under 8, and that's only if I have enough time to save up 150% of what I can earn in a year.) Since I am the sole earner in our family, me taking unpaid time off isn't really an option, especially since we would then need to pay out of pocket for all medical benefits, including what is usually the employer contribution.
My company used to have an Extended Illness benefit that it has since gotten rid of. However, those of us who were hired when it was available still have our hours sitting in it. Guess what? I can't use that either. I'm actually fighting with my company about that, as they would force me to use it before disability kicked in if I were pregnant.
My company does give a $2,000 reimbursement for adoption costs, which is nice, but, considering my company is my health insurance and health care provider, is a drop in the bucket compared to what they'd pay if I were actually pregnant.

I am not, in any way, trying to diminish the toll giving birth places on a woman's body. However, most new mom's do not spend that six weeks lying around recovering, they spend it taking care of their new baby. If we adopt a newborn (which is DH's preference), guess what- it needs just as much care and bonding time as one living with it's birth mom. If we adopt an older child, bonding will likely take even longer, and while there may not be 3am feedings, there's a huge importance in simply being there.

And if this is frustrating and annoying to someone like me, where adoption is my first choice route to starting a family, just think how emotionally draining and discriminatory it must feel to someone who desperately tried to get pregnant and couldn't.

And I don't feel like what I'm doing is virtuous. It actually feels pretty selfish. I am choosing this route because I have a <0 desire to be pregnant, but still want to be a mom. It would be a much easier process for everyone involved if I was willing to gestate.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I thought FMLA covered adoption? You might want to look further into that.

I was right, this is from the policy code thru my workplace:

Maternal/paternal concerns related to the birth and first year care of a child or adoption of a child, or the placement of a child with the employee for foster care

[shanendoah]

Drama-
FMLA does cover adoption. But FMLA doesn't pay you. It only protects your job.
If I were to take time off without pay, my job (or an equivalent position) would still be available when I came back, but we'd have to have the savings to cover all of our bills for that time without income and cover the full insurance payments, since my company doesn't pay on insurance if they aren't paying me (or if somebody isn't paying me). A person on disability can choose not to use any PTO and get paid at the lesser 67% rate, but because they are still getting paid by someone, the company still pays their portion of medical benefits.

[Angel!]

Apr 26, 2012 15:12:20 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I thought FMLA covered adoption? You might want to look further into that.

I was right, this is from the policy code thru my workplace:

Maternal/paternal concerns related to the birth and first year care of a child or adoption of a child, or the placement of a child with the employee for foster care

It does, Shanendoah is upset she doesn't qualify for any of the disibility paid leave.

I understand it is upsetting, but the idea of disability is because the mom is recovering from delivery & generally a doctor won't authorize to work for 6 wks standard delivery/ 8 wks c-section. And depending on how your delivery goes, you very well might actually need that much time before you could even consider going back full-time. Your body is very run down & needs time to heal.

Your state or company has a much better disability policy than most. I got 8 days paid at 60%. Whoop-dee-do.

[shanendoah]

Angel: Again, I don't want to diminish the toll giving birth places on a woman's body. I am not upset I don't qualify for disability. I don't want to use disability pay to cover my time off. I do want to be able to access all the paid time off I have earned, though, and not have my company tell me that some of it is off limits to me except when they say so, especially since the reason the separate bucket it is placed in no longer has a reason to exist.
I am upset that the US uses the disability safety net as our excuse for not putting into place an actual parental leave system. Using the state disability systems protects women whose employers otherwise wouldn't give them time off, which I fully support, but it's led a to a rather sexist and antiquated parental leave system considering the myriad of ways families are formed currently. Fathers in all families face the kinds of issues I'm dealing with right now, and I don't believe that is right, either.