deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 15, 2011 12:00:02 GMT -5
dawood I have a few questions if your up for them,and still here .
Christians and Jews , some are very observant...the majority , in my experience, are not. They feel they are followers of , yet on certain dogma, where they don't agree, they basically just scroll by and still feel they are of their faith. I can give many examples , but I beleive all the readers here will agree and know this is true.
For some reason, ignorance on my part, just never have gotten into discussions on beliefs with one who is of the Muslim faith, is this the same with many Muslims.
I am friendly with Mohammand who owns a convenience store up the street and where I pick up things in a rush, and have discussed some things with him, he is Pakistanian, Shia I believe, we discussed the feelings of the feelings of Shia and Sunni here in the USA , if different for most , vs back in their country's.. but over all my ignorance is great.
If you are active in using a Mosque for prayer, when the leader speaks, if you were not comfortable with his ideas, his teaching, his thoughts on certain topics, are you able, after the sermon, if it's called that, see how ignorant I am, to discuss, disagree with him, and still be welcome in that Mosque, or is it better to remain silent if you want to continue to worship there, and just disregard the part of his ideas you find are not correct, or better, just find another place, Mosque , to worship at.
The Koran, is it interpreted literally, no deviation, or have scholars discussed, studied and come out with interpretations of, as I know Jewish scholars have thus the Talmud , the laws and what the commandments and laws of Moses really mean in to days world. I believe one of the Muslim sects is more into that of interpreting of where the other takes the approach more a literal reading of the religious writings.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on May 15, 2011 12:14:58 GMT -5
Isn't it great to have dawood here, Dezi? I do hope he continues to post, as he is uniquely qualified to answer so many questions that arise with regard to Islam, as practiced here in the US. There's a really good chance to learn being offered by dawood. I hope people will take advantage of that opportunity. Karma for you, dawood, for sharing with us.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 15, 2011 12:45:07 GMT -5
Agree mmhmm, realizing he is just one more voice , but speaking from a side that, lets face it we haven't a clue beyond the sound bytes of the media and preconceived ideas we have in out own minds, thus I too hope he continues to be a reguler poster here. I am even going out on the limb and suggest he has a good sense of humor and will be able to join in on the disses back and forth that seems to be one of the fun things that happen here. Hell, will join in and reward him for his posts here too. and a treat too, think it's allowed under his beliefs,
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 15, 2011 14:33:37 GMT -5
Swamp I am all for following the laws of this country, as are millions of Muslims who live here . Just dont hold me accountable for something that happens in Iran. I don't. You must have me mixed up with someone else.
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on May 15, 2011 14:49:45 GMT -5
I'd be a proponent of cutting off the genitals of child predators with a dull steak knife...and then let them bleed to death. Same for rapists. Not sure if anyone has been to one of those medieval torture museums. Some of that stuff would be useful for murderers. Here are some: www.medievality.com/torture.html
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 15, 2011 15:33:08 GMT -5
I wouldn't have a problem if some one wanted to wear a burqa as long as they were willing to expose their face in certain understandable situations if asked to by say law enforcement officials and if certain businesses were not comfortable with having a customer so covered in their establishments , a neatly lettered sign so informing the ones wearing the garment of their being not welcome , thinking any businesses that would be concerned, specifically banks, or actually any, just as signs saying those with no shoes and shirts not welcome are displayed.
If they are wearing the garment in public, walking the streets , it's none of my concern. I know that some one is going to bring up the vests worn by suicide bombers, but those can be concealed by any over covering, larger shirts, coats, and so far , thank the lord not a problem here.'
If the objection is just because some of the populace are not happy seeing some one dressed that way, get over it, or turn around and go the other way so you don't have to see it.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 15, 2011 15:43:39 GMT -5
I wouldn't have a problem if some one wanted to wear a burqa as long as they were willing to expose their face in certain understandable situations if asked to by say law enforcement officials and if certain businesses were not comfortable with having a customer so covered in their establishments , a neatly lettered sign so informing the ones wearing the garment of their being not welcome , thinking any businesses that would be concerned, specifically banks, or actually any, just as signs saying those with no shoes and shirts not welcome are displayed. If they are wearing the garment in public, walking the streets , it's none of my concern. I know that some one is going to bring up the vests worn by suicide bombers, but those can be concealed by any over covering, larger shirts, coats, and so far , thank the lord not a problem here.' If the objection is just because some of the populace are not happy seeing some one dressed that way, get over it, or turn around and go the other way so you don't have to see it. So based on the above, if businesses stated if full covering ie, hajib or Burka, are worn you will not be allowed into this establishment, before people like the ACLU, C.A.I.R or the like bring costly lawsuits to the establishments because of religious discrimination?
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 15, 2011 16:03:24 GMT -5
I wouldn't have a problem if some one wanted to wear a burqa as long as they were willing to expose their face in certain understandable situations if asked to by say law enforcement officials and if certain businesses were not comfortable with having a customer so covered in their establishments , a neatly lettered sign so informing the ones wearing the garment of their being not welcome , thinking any businesses that would be concerned, specifically banks, or actually any, just as signs saying those with no shoes and shirts not welcome are displayed. If they are wearing the garment in public, walking the streets , it's none of my concern. I know that some one is going to bring up the vests worn by suicide bombers, but those can be concealed by any over covering, larger shirts, coats, and so far , thank the lord not a problem here.' If the objection is just because some of the populace are not happy seeing some one dressed that way, get over it, or turn around and go the other way so you don't have to see it. So based on the above, if businesses stated if full covering ie, hajib or Burka, are worn you will not be allowed into this establishment, before people like the ACLU, C.A.I.R or the like bring costly lawsuits to the establishments because of religious discrimination? Any one can bring a law suit and possible it might be won. I just mentioned my feelings on the subject. I think the no shoes, shirt are a health department regulation, though I think some stores, ice cream and such on beaches, possible not upheld, though maybe I am thinking where people are out side buying through a window, not actually in the store. Same as liquor stores, no weapons can be brought in, or big fine , same if crime committed in a bar with a fire arm, automatically a 10 year sentence, see posted in some states, also all statutes. If legislatures felt it was a legitimate threat to some retail establishments , possible pass legislation allowing a retailer, business legally keep those people in the garment out, still might be a law suit, but as I said, one can sue, then they have to win it. For me to be concerned if some one is in public though, walking a mall, a street, in a movie or theater, not bothering me. Bothering you?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2011 16:09:51 GMT -5
Unfortunately, we ARE at war with radical Islam globally. If I was a law abiding Muslim I would be mad as hell, screaming my lungs out AGAINST radical Islam, NOT protesting Israel as I see the Muslim ladies doing often in MY city. Sorry, not feeling the love for USA OR the hate for radical Islam, not where I live.
Of course, to protest could cost them their heads............
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Post by lakhota on May 15, 2011 16:32:21 GMT -5
Israel sucks!
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 15, 2011 16:35:13 GMT -5
Unfortunately, we ARE at war with radical Islam globally. If I was a law abiding Muslim I would be mad as hell, screaming my lungs out AGAINST radical Islam, NOT protesting Israel as I see the Muslim ladies doing often in MY city. Sorry, not feeling the love for USA OR the hate for radical Islam, not where I live. Of course, to protest could cost them their heads............ Those Muslim ladies protesting Israels existence, it's policies regarding Palestinians, feel the state should not be there and definitely are not happy with the States treatment of Palestinians in their minds, and as long as they aren't doing any more then protesting, they have that right , don't you agree. You and I might not agree, there is so much more to the story, but their right to protest say in organized demonstrations, to just go up and down the street ad hoc in their protest, just not done, I don't think, but to demonstrate in mass , appropriate times, some thing your familiar with, "Freedom Of Speech ". One of our amendments I think. Regarding the Muslim form of dress, while not proscribed as a religious obligation, except for the wearing of fringes on a garment, the covering of the head, the curls of the males and long hair in back on males, there are by custom certain looks by some orthodox Jews, Hasidim, a sect of Jewish society, folks who are very orthodox and who usually follow particular religious leaders and teachers, called Rebe's. Interesting article for those who are not familiar, especially if you live in the areas were you wouldn't come across them, usually in certain major urban areas, New York for example. They have been the group pictured in certain Movies over the years, one was "The Chosen, another a cop movie where a woman detective went under cover in a Hasidim home to try and catch a bad guy, forgot the name of that one, very good movie , done well, and they got the bad guy. Another feature of some of these woman, Hasidim, is the wearing of wigs all the time, there is a word for it in Yiddish, but can't remember it. There is no religious significance to it, just a custom from the time of the Pogroms and slaughtering of Czarist Russia, the Cossacks , when Jewish woman shaved their heads and donned the wigs to hopefully stave off, be unattractive to the marauders, the raping of and abuse at the hands of those people. Some still today in these communities still continue the custom. {Doubt it would be a detriment but I wasn't there, before my time, thank the lord, but true, a historic period and the custom kept} histclo.com/style/ethnic/ethnicjew.htmlI believe Indian woman also may wear in public, outfits that definitely are part of their culture, silk, colorful, not the face covering but body covering and a particular draping style.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 15, 2011 16:37:18 GMT -5
Your opinion, short sided , ignorant in it's posting but you feel that way, why waste time discussing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2011 16:39:23 GMT -5
Your opinion, short sided , ignorant in it's posting but you feel that way, why waste time discussing. karma for that, dezi's comment that is.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 15, 2011 16:40:51 GMT -5
As does, China, India, Pakistan, Russia, Egypt, England, Cambodia, Columbia, Zimbabwe, Zaire and the USA. Every country has it's issues so what's our point?
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 15, 2011 16:46:05 GMT -5
MeBAD, so sorry...had a thought and did a google and I am afraid I gave my opinion , that I had picked up some where in my youth, a explanation given by some one, before the time of the internet and my good friend Mr. Google, so am posting a apology , a me bad and embarressment, and a . On what you ask ? Ok will tell you. My post, see below. ---------------------------------------------------------- "Another feature of some of these woman, Hasidim, is the wearing of wigs all the time, there is a word for it in Yiddish, but can't remember it. There is no religious significance to it, just a custom from the time of the Pogroms and slaughtering of Czarist Russia, the Cossacks , when Jewish woman shaved their heads and donned the wigs to hopefully stave off, be unattractive to the marauders, the raping of and abuse at the hands of those people. Some still today in these communities still continue the custom. {Doubt it would be a detriment but I wasn't there, before my time, thank the lord, but true, a historic period and the custom kept} ---------------------------------------------------------------- A great story...NOT TRUE, basically , in the vernaculer, complete BS. -------------------------------------------------- True fact, it is a commandement , for those interested, just click on link, quick read, even the Yiddish name of the wig... ----------------------------------------------------------------- askville.amazon.com/Jewish-women-shave-heads-wear-wigs/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=7695263
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Post by ty on May 15, 2011 16:49:52 GMT -5
We are in America. Sharia law should not ever become part of our country, and most of these muslims need to be sent back to their countries, especially if they are waving their own country flag in America. You come to America, you live by our laws, our culture and our ways. If you want to live by Sharia law, go back to your own effed up country and stop invading ours.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 15, 2011 17:24:44 GMT -5
We are in America. Sharia law should not ever become part of our country, and most of these Muslims need to be sent back to their countries, especially if they are waving their own country flag in America. You come to America, you live by our laws, our culture and our ways. If you want to live by Sharia law, go back to your own effed up country and stop invading ours. I see Irish flags, UK flags, Puerto Rican flags, {I know, a territory of } flags in fact of many countries being displayed in the windows of homes, on car bumpers and windows. You do know that many of color, who's ancestors were here long , long before your and my families even knew of this place, are members of that faith, so where are they to go. I see no great out pouring for a change in our society. Possible as discussed before, some in civil litigation, jointly might opt to settle disputes privately , with the verdict and facts presented not to our civil justice system but to learned Judges of their faith and they had agreed to accept what ever verdict that is given, and nothing wrong with that either, almost as if they privately decided to settle what ever dispute they had. None of our business really.
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Post by lakhota on May 15, 2011 17:25:51 GMT -5
Yes, Israel sucks, and here's why I say that: If Israel truly wants peace with its Arab neighbors, why does it continue to inflame them by building/expanding settlements in occupied Palestinian territory? Illegal Israeli actions in Occupied East Jerusalem and the rest of the Occupied Palestinian TerritoryIdentical letters dated 28 January 2011 from the Permanent Observer of Palestine to the United Nations addressed to the Secretary-General and the President of the Security Council. The situation in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, continues to deteriorate, with deepening unrest and instability on the ground. This deterioration is clearly linked to the illegal, destructive and provocative policies and practices of Israel, the occupying Power, and its provocations and incitement against the Palestinian people. This includes ongoing acts of violence against the Palestinian civilian population by Israeli settlers, illegally transferred to the Occupied Territory and clearly constituting part of the occupying forces. Settler terror, harassment and destruction continue unabated, on a daily basis, without fear of punishment or being brought to justice for their crimes against the Palestinian people. In this regard, I must draw your attention to the following illegal, brutal actions committed by Israeli settlers against Palestinian civilians and their properties in the current period. Yesterday, 27 January 2011, an Israeli settler from the illegal settlement of “Bracha” shot and killed a Palestinian teenager in the village of Iraq Burin near Nablus in the Occupied West Bank. Uday Maher Qadous, aged 18, was fired upon by a settler as he worked on his family’s orchard and was killed instantly by a bullet to the left side of his chest. Qadous’s lifeless body was left in the field for over an hour and a half before medical crews were able to take him to a nearby hospital. Tragically, Qadous is the third civilian from the village of Iraq Burin to be killed by terrorist settlers over the past year. Also yesterday, settlers from the illegal settlement of “Sousia” attacked two Palestinian shepherds from the town of Yatta, south of Al-Khalil (Hebron), with iron bars, leaving one in serious condition. Israeli occupying forces looked on and did nothing to stop the settlers from attacking the Palestinian shepherds. Instead, the occupying forces arrested two Palestinians who were in the vicinity, including a photographer who was documenting the attack. Also yesterday, another Palestinian farmer was beaten severely by an Israeli settler from the illegal settlement of “Betar Eilit”. In the Palestinian village of Ainabus, in the Nablus area, Israeli settlers from the illegal settlement of “Yitzhar” entered the village, breaking the fence of a home and setting a car ablaze. More Israeli Occupation/Violence Against Palestinians: unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/F42AB33A1D1B94D98525782C005139C1
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2011 17:56:17 GMT -5
If you see no problem with other country flags in the USA you sure don't live in TX, AZ, or CA. Just saying.... Viva La Raza!!!
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 15, 2011 18:00:05 GMT -5
You bring up isolated incidents , no one says there are no questions that can be asked regarding certain aspects of the Government actions, hell Israeli's are doing that on a daily basis, it is a Democracy , with many , to many, seems every Tom , Dick and Samuel is represented by one, and the currant Government is not secure in it's position of power by any means. The main problem is the security of the country as a Jewish State. There are plenty of articles and thoughts that it shouldn't be, I can post one right now that is long and involved and in the authors eyes a perfect answerewhy it shouldn't be , possible you would agree, but it is and for Israeli's and I , it has to remain so. Because of it's enlightened place in the world? Well OK but the real reason, they, I, Israeli's don't trust their safety as a people to any one but themselves. History, which is a way of saying how things will be has proven that, and not just since the end of 1945 and all that came out of that time period, but the reality of what has transpired since the last destruction of the Temple by the Romans and the wanderings of the few survivors, how treated. England, Spain, Portugal, Italy, France, the large powers, all threw them completely out if they didn't convert, or killed them if found after they were to be gone. Those are just a few of the country's, can fill the pages. You think the American Indians had it bad, and they did, but were allowed some space, not great space but space. I bring it up, it's a big thing, as it should be , with you. When they say the phrase, Israeli's, Jews and friends of, "Never Again " , they mean it and they, Israeli's, have put themselves in a position where if it is ever to be their defeat, with over 250 or more Nick's they will not go quietly...that is what it is , that is the way it will be. You mention settlements, in most cases it's apartments in a area of Israel, Eastern Jerusalem that both parties know will be Israeli if they ever settle this thing. I grant you, by building there ahead of the final agreement , that is one less item the Palestinians have to bargain with to give up to get something else, but there are also politics to consider and the current Government , any Government there in fact, is also under pressure from the extreme right who feel the whole West Bank belongs to them, move out the Palestinians, their land as given by the lord. Not going to happen but to appease, so the apartments are built. Reality of the situation. Now the middle east is in a uproar, who knows what is going to come out of it. They have had a peace with the Egyptians for 30 years but now it seems that may be unraveling, the two Palestinian parties are no longer apart, one party is influenced heavily by Iran, sworn enemy of Israel , who also is influential in Syria and Lebanon, Hezbalalh is there, and the Muslim Brother Hood also has a sort of meeting of the mind with Iran, and this is what the Israeli's have to deal with. What ever peace they signed , this was always a concern. They can not be evenly matched with their enemies, if so they are finished, and if they are, I believe the WORLD will also pay a price, they will not go like sheep to the slaughter as the Jews did in the 30's through 1945...you may feel they will, they will NOT. You picked a sound byte or two when there is so much more to this problem, this story, and from the sound byte, you have it all figured out, which is such BS , you should be ashamed of yourself. In a way surprised, you really are not that aware and as smart as you like some to think. To think simple answers are the reason for and thus a two word response. So your post, "Israel Sucks " simple dumb ignorant post, you don't know crap about the situation, just a dumb post that one shouldn't even respond to, as you haven't a clue, but I guess I did, respond to.[Me bad } In answer to your posts of bad things done to Palastinians by some settlers, agree, not right, but I didn't bring up the stabbing to death of a family of five in the deep of night , all slautered by knives by two Palastinians including three young ones, two , infant and one just starting to walk and only by hiding two others and a missing sister were spared, and that is what the Israeli's know will happen if they ever become weak , evenly matched with these people , whatr there history has taught them happens if they leave their well being to others, so as I said , "Never Again".
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on May 15, 2011 18:01:49 GMT -5
Heh. If I wished, I could cover the back of my car with flags denoting my ancestry, Dezi. I'm a mutt! As long as the flags aren't flown at equal height to our national flag, there's not problem, as far as I know, with individuals exhibiting the flag of their country of ancestry.
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Post by lakhota on May 15, 2011 18:09:10 GMT -5
"Israeli settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, are illegal and an obstacle to peace and to economic and social development [... and] have been established in breach of international law."
International Court of Justice Ruling, July 9, 2004Settlements: The Facts There are currently 121 Israeli colonies, often referred to as "settlements", and approximately 102 Israeli outposts built illegally on Palestinian land occupied militarily by Israel since 1967 (West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights). All of these settlements and outposts are illegal under international law and have been condemned by numerous United Nations Security Council resolutions. Israeli outposts are considered illegal under Israeli law. These settlements and outposts are inhabited by a population of some 462,000 Israeli settlers. 191,000 Israelis are living in settlements around Jerusalem and a further 271,400 are further spread throughout the West Bank. The settler population has grown consistently between 4-6% per year over the last two decades, a much higher rate of growth than Israeli society as a whole (1.5%). Approximately 385,000 settlers in 80 settlements will be located between the Separation Wall and the Green Line if Israel holds to projected plans. In 2008, amidst the ‘settlement freeze’ agreed upon in the Annapolis framework, tenders for new settle-ment building increased by 550% from 2007. Actual settlement construction has increased by 30% since the launching of the new round of peace talks. Settlement building around Jerusalem has increased by a factor of 38. A total of 9,000 further housing units have been approved in East Jerusalem, and approximately 2,600 new housing units are being built east of the Separation Wall, comprising 55% of all settlement construc-tion activity. Settlements are built on less than 3 percent of the area of the West Bank. However, due to the extensive network of settler roads and restrictions on Palestinians accessing their own land, Israeli settlements domi-nate more than 40 percent of the West Bank. More (with maps): www.palestinemonitor.org/spip/spip.php?article7Israel sucks up Palestinian land
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Post by lakhota on May 15, 2011 18:12:10 GMT -5
So, you're attacking me personally for having an opinion, which I backed up with facts? Okay...
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burnsattornincan
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Post by burnsattornincan on May 15, 2011 18:15:40 GMT -5
I dont want any non-Muslim to be allowed because I dont want them to feel like I am shoving my religion down their throat.
So you're saying you are doing us a favor by excluding us from your little private swim session at a public venue because we might be offended? Well I don't get offended too easily so go ahead and preach your Islam in the locker room as long as you don't get in my way. If that isn't good enough then take your Islam preaching out to the back parking lot. I will not be denied entry into a public place my taxes paid for because a certain group of people want to have a private session. Rent a hall somewhere if privacy is a requirement.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2011 18:24:50 GMT -5
Speaking common sense, Burns? Not sure that is PC in the USA, at least not as it applies to anything Muslim. Protected group. But talking trash about Jews seems to be PC. Go figure.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 15, 2011 18:27:41 GMT -5
So, you're attacking me personally for having an opinion, which I backed up with facts? Okay... There is 63 years of stuff here, actually more if you want to go back to the 30's and the Arab riots and murders of old religiouse Jews , there just to study till they died, didn't even agree with the idea of a home land, felt it couldn't be till the messia had come, they don't accept the one who many feel is, thus the big problem with thse people by others. Your over simplification of the problem and statement of "Israel sucks ", you bet ..your thoughts and statement..my response, "simple dumb ignorant post, you don't know crap about the situation, just a dumb post ' not sure about a personal attack, your ideas expressed in your post? Oh yeah, in spades.
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Post by ssdawood on May 16, 2011 5:39:10 GMT -5
I dont want any non-Muslim to be allowed because I dont want them to feel like I am shoving my religion down their throat.So you're saying you are doing us a favor by excluding us from your little private swim session at a public venue because we might be offended? Well I don't get offended too easily so go ahead and preach your Islam in the locker room as long as you don't get in my way. If that isn't good enough then take your Islam preaching out to the back parking lot. I will not be denied entry into a public place my taxes paid for because a certain group of people want to have a private session. Rent a hall somewhere if privacy is a requirement. If I am paying rent how is it on the taxpayers dime. I am renting the place for the event. Its not on your dime. Grow some sense Mr. Dalton Mcguinty Burns.
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Post by ssdawood on May 16, 2011 5:48:41 GMT -5
Mr. Burns just come out clean and accept the fact that you just hate Muslims and Islam. It has nothing to do with terrorism. And I dont want to waste my energy arguing with you, You can ramble all you want on an anonymous board about Muslims and Islam but the fact is you cant do anything.
People like you are still a minority in this country and therefore I am free to practice my religion.
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Post by jarhead1976 on May 16, 2011 6:04:14 GMT -5
ssdawood, Many good men and women defend your right to practice your freedom of religion. Practice in peace. Do not expect others to give up their own spirituality because it doesn't conforms to yours at the same time.
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Post by ssdawood on May 16, 2011 7:07:18 GMT -5
Jarhead I respect all the good men and women who defend my right, hence my post referring Mr. burns in a minority. I dont expect others to give up their own spirituality. I never said that. Mr. Burns is upset becuase somebody had a Muslim only event.
My reply was there is no harm if someone wants to rent a venue for a Muslim only event.
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