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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2011 21:36:42 GMT -5
Gee, burns, I never knew you are mixed up, nonsensical, and offensive. Learn something new every day from the resident judge of character.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 29, 2011 21:42:56 GMT -5
Gee, burns, I never knew you are mixed up, nonsensical, and offensive. Learn something new every day from the resident judge of character.
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Post by lakhota on May 29, 2011 21:50:52 GMT -5
By the way Lakhota, any particular reason why you resurrected this thread? Yeah, burns, because I wanted to! BTW, how's Sharia Law working out in your country - Canada? I've been doing a little research...
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on May 29, 2011 21:56:07 GMT -5
Burns and offensive are often synonymous, imo....
however, in regards to recent posts.. when comments such as this - "How about every other religion (I use that term loosely with Islam) "- are used, it does definitely give off an air of..hmmm.. hatred may be too strong... so we'll settle for intense dislike and/or disdain for that group of people.. and THAT, depending on just how far it's taken, is against proboards CoC..
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burnsattornincan
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Post by burnsattornincan on May 29, 2011 22:12:22 GMT -5
so we'll settle for intense dislike and/or disdain for that group of people.. and THAT, depending on just how far it's taken, is against proboards CoC..
Oh really now? I have seen at least a few times someone posting that they do not believe Islam is a religion at all but a political movement instead. I agree with that statement somewhat, that is why I used the word "loosely". So is this now considered against CoC?
And if you don't mind me asking Ms. moonbeam, how did you happen upon this thread just so conveniently?
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Post by moon/Laura on May 29, 2011 22:24:25 GMT -5
believe it or not, i DO skim through things here and there.. usually the last page...
and all i'm saying is that we all need to be respectful of the fact that we have a wide variety of posters here, including one muslim. if comments are being made that makes someone feel threatened, or otherwise unwelcome, that's a problem.
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burnsattornincan
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Post by burnsattornincan on May 29, 2011 22:25:21 GMT -5
BTW, how's Sharia Law working out in your country - Canada?
Not so good now that we have a solid Conservative majority.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 29, 2011 22:34:41 GMT -5
BTW, how's Sharia Law working out in your country - Canada?Not so good now that we have a solid Conservative majority. Meaning they don't see the problem as you do? In other words it isn't a problem in their eyes.
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Post by lakhota on May 30, 2011 0:36:24 GMT -5
Ailes' Reported "Personal Paranoia" About Muslims, Gays Mirrored On FoxIn a May 25 Rolling Stone article on the "Fox News Fear Factory," Tim Dickinson reported that Fox News chairman Roger Ailes "has a personal paranoia about people who are Muslim -- which is consistent with the ideology of his network" and that Ailes "lived in fear that gay activists would try to attack him in retaliation over his hostility to gay rights." Indeed, Ailes' reported "personal paranoia" has been mirrored on Fox, which has a long history of smearing and attacking Muslims and the LGBT community. mediamatters.org/research/201105270028
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 30, 2011 1:28:06 GMT -5
Ailes' Reported "Personal Paranoia" About Muslims, Gays Mirrored On FoxIn a May 25 Rolling Stone article on the "Fox News Fear Factory," Tim Dickinson reported that Fox News chairman Roger Ailes "has a personal paranoia about people who are Muslim -- which is consistent with the ideology of his network" and that Ailes "lived in fear that gay activists would try to attack him in retaliation over his hostility to gay rights." Indeed, Ailes' reported "personal paranoia" has been mirrored on Fox, which has a long history of smearing and attacking Muslims and the LGBT community. mediamatters.org/research/201105270028 mmm, I wonder if he grew up in Canada, what do you think, possible google mmmm?
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Post by ssdawood on May 30, 2011 6:46:17 GMT -5
Cool, I have been singled out. You know-- I don't KNOW any Muslims. WHY?? The Muslims in my neighborhood do NOT mix with other people, nor do their kids. They don't talk to anyone, use the community center amenities, mingle at school events, nothing. I have never even SEEN any of the Dads at events, just the Moms and kids. Why is this? Why do they not speak to others, or get involved in community and school events? Perhaps our resident Muslim could answer that for me. How, exactly, is one supposed to get to know someone that shuns involvement with the rest of the community? The kids seem exactly like all the other kids, but you will NEVER see them carpooling or anything even resembling that. THIS is FACT in my community, whether or not you believe me. Hello Krickett I find it really hard to believe that you feel that Muslims dont want to interact with you. But still I agree that maybe the Muslims that live there are hesitant to get involved. I do try to be fair as much as possible to interact but sometimes its not that I dont want to but I cant. I cant attend parties where Liquor or pork is served. Thats rules out majority of the parties. However I do have some very good friends back from my college days. they totally understand this and not bothered by it. I didnt want to be rude so it took me time to explain this to them. I do however make exceptions and will attend Funerals, I also attend Birthdays, Baby shower , weddings etc but I generally dont eat or drink at those parties. I will go , hand the gift, congratulate everyone and before everyone gets drunk and rowdy lol I leave. My friends understand this and have no problem. If I was in Arizona I would surely like to meet you, but dont forget some of the things I do will seem like I am rude. I cant touch you not even shake hands, I cant eat at your place because of pork. As long as I know you will understand this I have no problem but not a lot of people understand this. So yes a lot of Muslims are hesitant but in no way anyone of them means harm. Also just to let the board know I am not that strict, I will shake your hand, my wife does go out without covering herself, she dresses modestly but still she goes out without a Hijab. We do got to Parents teacher meetings, volunteer in schools, go on field trips etc. Its hard to say that you have kids going to school and then they dont assimilate . I know my English is not that great and I am finding it hard to express my opninion as to why they dont want assimilate but believe me the town I live in I am the only Muslim family and my nearest Mosque is 30 minutes away, but everybody knows me and I know everybody.
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on May 30, 2011 7:51:27 GMT -5
ssdawood- i really enjoyed your post. I don't really know any Muslims either. maybe i should rephrase that. I work with a large percentage of people who are Indian, and therefore, perhaps Muslim. but our interaction is limited to work - not social. only one did i get to know well enough that i knew for sure he was muslim. i would have liked to meet him - but he lives in another state. So, it was informative to read of your customs and limitations. personally, none of what you have said would offend me in any way. and your english is just fine, too
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Post by privateinvestor on May 30, 2011 7:52:07 GMT -5
ssdawood are you Muslims having any ceremonies today to honor our Nation's Veterans???
If so I would be interested to see what they are ??
Thanx P.I.
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Post by privateinvestor on May 30, 2011 7:54:24 GMT -5
I agree Moon and thanx again ssdawood....your comments have been interesting and very informative and I admire you for that..
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Post by ssdawood on May 30, 2011 8:13:28 GMT -5
Just curious dawood, did you see my questions regarding Muslims, possible you missed them, but if not , was wondering if you could answer them, unless, hard to believe but this AM one never knows, by what I thought was apparent but for some was not, my being Jewish, you possible might not be comfortable answering any questions of mine posed to you. Sorry to bring it up, but stranger things have happened, hope not the case but if so, would like to clear the air. -------------------------------------------------- In case you missed the post: ---------------------------------------------------- dawood I have a few questions if your up for them,and still here . Christians and Jews , some are very observant...the majority , in my experience, are not. They feel they are followers of , yet on certain dogma, where they don't agree, they basically just scroll by and still feel they are of their faith. I can give many examples , but I beleive all the readers here will agree and know this is true. For some reason, ignorance on my part, just never have gotten into discussions on beliefs with one who is of the Muslim faith, is this the same with many Muslims. I am friendly with Mohammand who owns a convenience store up the street and where I pick up things in a rush, and have discussed some things with him, he is Pakistanian, Shia I believe, we discussed the feelings of the feelings of Shia and Sunni here in the USA , if different for most , vs back in their country's.. but over all my ignorance is great. If you are active in using a Mosque for prayer, when the leader speaks, if you were not comfortable with his ideas, his teaching, his thoughts on certain topics, are you able, after the sermon, if it's called that, see how ignorant I am, to discuss, disagree with him, and still be welcome in that Mosque, or is it better to remain silent if you want to continue to worship there, and just disregard the part of his ideas you find are not correct, or better, just find another place, Mosque , to worship at. The Koran, is it interpreted literally, no deviation, or have scholars discussed, studied and come out with interpretations of, as I know Jewish scholars have thus the Talmud , the laws and what the commandments and laws of Moses really mean in to days world. I believe one of the Muslim sects is more into that of interpreting of where the other takes the approach more a literal reading of the religious writings. Here is the Question you asked Mr Deziloo. I apologize I did dodged the question as I thought you were getting into Shia and Sunni conflict among the Muslims. I dont want to get into it as it is my personal belief that all Muslims are Muslims. But Muslims are supposed to follow the Quran word to word. yes there are interpretation and explanation and one person explanation can be totally different from the other. Therefore it is encouraged for all Muslims to learn Arabic and then interpret the Quran itself. For 1400 years not one word of the Quran has been changed and the book has been preserved to its original writing. There are no versions of Quran, explanation and interpretation are there. As for the Imam , let me explain you what an Imam is . Imam is nothing more than a person who leads the prayer. Mostly mosques have an Imam who has learned Quran all his life and looks after day to day working of the Mosques like a live in priest. When there are smaller groups of people praying sometimes I have myself acted as an Imam. Does that make smarter or more knowledgeable than the rest No, but I am only leading the prayers. Sunni Muslims goto Sunni mosque and Shia Muslims goto Shia mosque just like Catholic and Protestant churches. Friday afternoon prayers are considered big and all Muslims are supposed to attend it. It is compulsory, so after the prayers yes there is a sermon in which the Imam recites a passage from the Quran and then discusses it. Yes you can disagree with the Imam but is hardly the case. Now yes I will agree there will be lot of difference between the sermon of Imam in USA and a Imam in Iran , I think this is what you are asking. I will disagree with an extremist Imam sermon when he says kill the infidels and will question his authority. But if I am in Iran hearing a sermon like that then for sure they will chop my head too for disagreeing with the Imam. When Islam clearly teaches that read the Quran yourself and draw its own interpretation, sadly today some Muslims dont follow this advice.
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Post by ssdawood on May 30, 2011 8:21:23 GMT -5
ssdawood are you Muslims having any ceremonies today to honor our Nation's Veterans??? If so I would be interested to see what they are ?? Thanx P.I. PI I didnt know there were any ceremonies for memorial day. Barbeque with family and friends, evening there will be a parade and then after fireworks. Pardon my ignorance
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Post by privateinvestor on May 30, 2011 8:24:51 GMT -5
ssdawood are you Muslims having any ceremonies today to honor our Nation's Veterans??? If so I would be interested to see what they are ?? Thanx P.I. PI I didnt know there were any ceremonies for memorial day. Barbeque with family and friends, evening there will be a parade and then after fireworks. Pardon my ignorance Ok I was curious to find out how Muslims celebrate Memorial Day or pay special homage to Muslim Veterans or Muslims serving in the military.... I am retired military so that is the reason for my question. Thanx, P.I.
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Post by ssdawood on May 30, 2011 8:31:47 GMT -5
India has a lot of Muslims and you are right you will never know a person next to you is a Muslim unless you talk to them. A lot of my friends dont even know I am a Muslim till I tell them , maybe cause I am not sporting a beard yet lol.
I totally understand why people say we are primitive and stuck in the old ages cause we are a new religion. We are behind 600 years from Christianity and the Western world. But Muslims all over the world are getting educated which is evident by the revolutions taking place right now in the Arab world.
You can be Doctor, engineer, physicist , lawyers and still be a good Muslim and follow Islam. You dont have to choose between being educated or following Islam.
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Post by ssdawood on May 30, 2011 8:33:48 GMT -5
I am a first generation immigrant therefore nobody has served in the military yet, hopefully that will change with my kids.
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on May 30, 2011 8:42:09 GMT -5
I totally agree ssdawood. i am in a tech industry, so there are lots of highly educated people. there are many indians that i work with onsite as well, but our facility is large, and the system administrators are in a different building from me. it's only a 10 minute walk away but it's hard for me to spare the time to leave, as i'm currently the only one fully trained to run certain accounts. i don't like to leave my team for too long, in case something comes up that they aren't sure how to handle. i do have a list of people i'd like to meet when i can though!
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2011 11:37:43 GMT -5
Thank you, ssda, for explaining. Does not sound that different than when I was a Mormon. They do not drink or smoke, and while not BARRED from being where there is alcohol, etc, it won't be found in their homes or gatherings. They do hug a lot, though, and can eat what they want, although there are suggestions about some things for health reasons. You sound more moderate than Muslims I have seen in Tucson that wear the head thing, protest Israel quite vocally and publicly. Now-- another question for you. You say the Koran is to be strictly followed. You say that in Iran it would be off with your head to disagree with an Imam talking about killing infidels. Can you expand on that? As far as American Muslims--- do they believe the infidel thing, openly or secretly, and are they at risk HERE if they say things that could reflect they support the USA in the war on terror? Tucson, where I live, actually busted up 2 or 3 terrorist cells after 9/11. Would those be regular Muslims that the people here go to mosque with and support? We have quite a few Mosques here, and lots of Muslims, and I do not have the slightest clue what they think about ANYTHING except for when I see them protesting. AND-- your wife does not wear the burkha thing, you say. Would you say the Muslims I see here in my neighborhood that really ARE standoffish are a different type from you, and wear the burkha to distance themselves from us on purpose? Sorry for spelling and maybe misnaming things. Do YOU think people like me that are from a traditional Christian background are infidels? What about Jewish people? I DO have some fear. Actually I am afraid to even ask these questions, because I am afraid to hear the answers. Please explain as much and as honestly as you can-- if you feel like it. Thx.
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Post by commentator on May 30, 2011 12:22:32 GMT -5
ssdawood- i really enjoyed your post. I don't really know any Muslims either. maybe i should rephrase that. I work with a large percentage of people who are Indian, and therefore, perhaps Muslim. but our interaction is limited to work - not social. only one did i get to know well enough that i knew for sure he was muslim. i would have liked to meet him - but he lives in another state. So, it was informative to read of your customs and limitations. personally, none of what you have said would offend me in any way. and your english is just fine, too The overwhelming majority of Indians are not Muslim. Most people cannot tell Indians from Pakistanis (which are majority Muslim). As a result, Indians are often targeted by anti-Islamic bigots who already don't care about stuff like facts.
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on May 30, 2011 12:33:37 GMT -5
The overwhelming majority of Indians are not Muslim.
well the fact that i wouldn't know unless they said is why i said PERHAPS.. in any case, i do not judge based on exterior.. if (generic) you treat me nicely/ with respect, and i feel you are a good person on the inside, you're alright with me.. and i will treat you in the same manner, until such point you show me you do not deserve it.
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Post by commentator on May 30, 2011 12:36:27 GMT -5
The overwhelming majority of Indians are not Muslim.well the fact that i wouldn't know unless they said is why i said PERHAPS.. in any case, i do not judge based on exterior.. if (generic) you treat me nicely/ with respect, and i feel you are a good person on the inside, you're alright with me.. and i will treat you in the same manner, until such point you show me you do not deserve it. My personal policy as well which explains why I have such a low opinion of almost all the individuals I've encountered who worked or were otherwise associated with M$N. They seem to go out of the way to demonstrate they are worthy of neither respect nor trust.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 30, 2011 13:19:19 GMT -5
I am a first generation immigrant therefore nobody has served in the military yet, hopefully that will change with my kids. Lets say leave it to them to choose, if they so choose, honor them, if not , just to be a good Citizen and person is enough in my book. Thanks for the response, glad it was just a misunderstanding. Your response informative and I am better informed because of it as are many of our readers here I believe. If in future, a question poised , not wanting to get into it, just say so, there is no obligation to answer all questions poised here by others. As weird as it is, we , Americans are very uninformed as to who , what , how they think , on those of your faith even though I believe that I read that there are 1.2 Billion around the globe and they are not a rarity in our midst. Especially in the more populated areas of the country, also many conversions too. I believe many of color have turned to that faith as well as those with out color, but our ignorance is a fact, IMHO. Interesting comment as to when you attend or not, functions. I know I have had relatives who kept Kosher and when invited for family functions, , and back in the day, one home had a nice pool, so it seemed during the summer, many functions, gladly by the way, were held at my abode, and for them, there were some Aunts, Uncles..friends occasionally, I would make sure we had food set aside, a can of salmon and salad, other such prepared , paper plates , plastic utensils, even at times they would say ahead , don't worry about it, would bring their on, they had no problem being around the rest of us and surrounded by the "Tr eff " as they would call our gluttony.
Again, thanks for the comments...hope you hang with us at times..got lots of questions and if I hit you with another one you would rather not discuss, just tell me to bug off or stifle it..or a , your call.
[ Just had a thought, you might not understand my suggestion, it is just my sick kind of humor, actually a simple "rather not get into it " would suffice]
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b2r
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Post by b2r on May 30, 2011 13:37:14 GMT -5
‘Let not the believers take the disbelievers as ‘Awliyaa' (supporters, helpers) instead of the believers, and whoever does that, will never be helped by Allaah in any way, except if you indeed fear a danger from them" [Q. 3:28]. The reason why I begin with a verse warning Muslims to refrain from taking non-Muslims as friends is to illustrate the mandate that Muslims are under which demands from them to associate with non-Muslims only for a very specific purpose, which is to lead the ‘infidel’ into the ‘House of Islam’, chattel slavery2, or death. Lying is not only permitted to achieve this goal, but encouraged3. The Muslim is in fact required to lie in order to change the host society into an Islamic nation and merge the old culture into one in which there is no religion but Allah’s [Q. 3:19]4. Doing this effectively demands the patience, cold heart and skill of an experienced agent of espionage5. Nor are Muslims permitted to feel any love towards the enemies of Allah. Actually, Muslims are obliged to hate the enemies of Allah6. Frequently, the Islamic response is that Muslims are only allowed to lie if their life is in mortal danger, and lying is the only way in which to stay alive. Many of us would agree with the principle7, but is that the whole truth? While Muslims insist that lying is generally prohibited, there are so many exceptions and ‘loopholes’ that any perceived prohibition is meaningless. Furthermore, the prophet of Islam tells his followers that oaths may be broken arbitrarily, and it is only the heart of the Muslim which is ‘taken to task by Allah’ so that unintentional promises [i.e. promises of peace made while on expedition or jihad] are expiated by acts of charity which include the freeing a believing slave, fasting or other acts, so long as they are affordable8 [Q. 5:89]. Muslims are also free from any obligation to any sect of Christianity that does not accept the prophethood of Muhammad and the Islamic god [Q. 9:3; 66:2] and all Muslims are to follow Muhammad’s example and not ask questions while actively leading skeptics astray [Q. 5:101; 40:32; cf. Bukhari Vol 1 Book 2 Num 54; Bukhari Vol 2 Book 24 Num 555]9 Is Lying a Sin, or Just a Good Strategy?www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&sqi=2&ved=0CCAQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.answering-islam.org%2Fauthors%2Ftoler%2Flying_sin.html&ei=p-PjTe32LIvQiALArPHMBg&usg=AFQjCNFuDdHxp-aV4_9r9xZPPAhYrT5X6g
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2011 13:41:39 GMT -5
I have read these things, also, b2r, and hope these questions can be answered here.
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Post by commentator on May 30, 2011 13:50:32 GMT -5
If the Koran is any more consistent than the Bible in its teachings, I will be surprised.
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