Any keto/Atkins 20/very low carbers?

[ednkris]

Sept 19, 2018 2:07:28 GMT -5 debthaven said:

But you're thin Knee Deep in Water Chloe !

I have been drinking more, thanks for the guidelines.

ednkris that's fantastic about getting off those meds!

At 26 lbs lost now. I'm still doing under 20g of carbs. I do plan to go up to 50 eventually, but not yet. 

26 great....that 20 g is hard. We had a lunch in at work today they brouht in pizza oh that was hard, and brownies for dessert...pot roast for me ugggg

[debthaven]

I miss pizza SO MUCH!!! Good for you for sticking to it ednkris ! I'm sure that was tough! I HATED that keto pizza I made a couple of weeks ago, but it scratched the itch. I no longer crave pizza 24/7.

At what point does one stop keto? I have been researching this and I can't find any answers. There are a TON of militant people who feel that "keto is a lifestyle" and not a diet.

I would be fine with low-carb, I'll need to be low-carb for life. The good thing about this diet is it's a huge wake-up call and a lifestyle change. But there is a BIG difference between doing low-carb (50-100g net carbs) and doing keto (under 20g net carbs). I have trouble with doing without carrots if they're the only vegetable offered at Job 2 the day I'm there.

This week they had roasted fennel. I LOVE fennel! The alternative was carrots, which I know is a no-no. Later I looked it up, fennel is part of the carrot family, high(er) in carbs, so a no-no too. So I refuse the French fries, the rice, the carrots, and then I feel guilty for eating two bulbs of FENNEL?! I racked my brain, hmm, does fennel grow above ground or below? I had no clue, but it was (light) green, so I took it. I'm so sick of that!

First my "stop keto" goal was 10 kilos/22 pounds. Then I hit it and changed my "stop keto" goal to 11 kilos/24.2 pounds. Ditto at 12 kilos/26.4 lbs. (I'm not yet stable at that weight, ie I hit it the other day but have never gone under it.) So now my "stop keto" goal is 13 kilos/28.6 lbs), and frankly I'm considering 15 kilos (33 lbs), which is very disheartening to me, because it means another few months on it, since I'm losing much more slowly now (I'm short, 5 feet 2.)

I want to give myself a kilo or two "leeway", knowing that when I go off keto I am likely to gain a kilo or two. But every time I hit a new low, I decide to lose another 2 kilos in case I gain a kilo or two when I stop keto LOL.

Any advice (from people who have done this or another strict diet)?

[debthaven]

IOW, what I am basically asking is, what is "good enough"?

I've gone from 32 BMI to 27.4 BMI. I'm nearly 60, I doubt I will be asked to be a bikini model anytime soon LOL. My initial goal was to get into "overweight" territory. My STRETCH goal was to get on the lower half of "overweight". Now I'm there, and I still want to keep going.

But "normal" weight is another 6 kilos/13.2 pounds and that would take MONTHS, and I really don't think I can do this for months more. Also, I know I can get VERY obsessive, so I'm a little worried about that too.

I should probably see a nutritionist but I have an insanely crazy schedule so frankly that's not going to happen anytime soon.

I'm thinking of stopping keto at 13 kilos lost, going low-carb, and then hopefully continuing to lose weight more slowly, or if not, going back on keto again next spring or summer. Any thoughts?

I'm having a VERY hard time with my crazy teaching schedule, I just don't have enough energy and I'm getting older. It's too late to change this semester, I have to hang on for another 11 weeks. I can (and WILL) lighten my schedule for second semester (second semester is lighter because students go abroad.)

I am in an amateur English-speaking theater troupe. I went to an audition on Mon (despite my better judgement because I really am barely coping). My American friends got SO EXCITED about my weight loss!!! They all told me, you look amazing, you look great, you look fabulous, keep going!!! NOBODY told me to stop LOL.

Definitely NOT like most of my French friends who have been raised to think that if you mention that someone lost weight, you are implying that they were fat, because they never realized that until you mentioned it LOL.

[raeoflyte]

Debt--I didn't end up doing keto for various reasons but something I talked about with my doc and the nutritionist when I was looking into it was the "what comes after" and their answer was carb cycling or just a more relaxed low-ish carb diet.  From reading various sites it seems that many transition to the "clean eating" trend.  

[ednkris]

Sept 20, 2018 16:26:09 GMT -5 debthaven said:

IOW, what I am basically asking is, what is "good enough"?

I've gone from 32 BMI to 27.4 BMI. I'm nearly 60, I doubt I will be asked to be a bikini model anytime soon LOL. My initial goal was to get into "overweight" territory. My STRETCH goal was to get on the lower half of "overweight". Now I'm there, and I still want to keep going.

But "normal" weight is another 6 kilos/13.2 pounds and that would take MONTHS, and I really don't think I can do this for months more. Also, I know I can get VERY obsessive, so I'm a little worried about that too.

I should probably see a nutritionist but I have an insanely crazy schedule so frankly that's not going to happen anytime soon.

I'm thinking of stopping keto at 13 kilos lost, going low-carb, and then hopefully continuing to lose weight more slowly, or if not, going back on keto again next spring or summer. Any thoughts?

I'm having a VERY hard time with my crazy teaching schedule, I just don't have enough energy and I'm getting older. It's too late to change this semester, I have to hang on for another 11 weeks. I can (and WILL) lighten my schedule for second semester (second semester is lighter because students go abroad.)

I am in an amateur English-speaking theater troupe. I went to an audition on Mon (despite my better judgement because I really am barely coping). My American friends got SO EXCITED about my weight loss!!! They all told me, you look amazing, you look great, you look fabulous, keep going!!! NOBODY told me to stop LOL.

Definitely NOT like most of my French friends who have been raised to think that if you mention that someone lost weight, you are implying that they were fat, because they never realized that until you mentioned it LOL.

When we started I read Dr. Atkins book it's old but the science is there. 20 grams until you get to where you are comfort where you want to be. Then add 5 grams per week until you gain a pound or 2 then go back to the previous week. That will be your maintenance carb intake. He also has the 20 grams for 2 weeks then 40 grams I didn't have much success with that. 

It is a lifestyle change I made pot roast the other day in the crock pot we had carrots  3oz and a bag of g beans added no potatoes the who dish was 35 grams it fed my wife and I 2 meals so approx 9 grams per meal. I plan on loosing 30 lb then add 5 grams per week and try to still loose 1 or 2 lbs per month, it it's too slow I will go back to 20 grams.

[debthaven]

That makes sense ... thank you!

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

Regarding what's enough for the full keto as opposed to the low-carb lifestyle: it seems to my un-medically-educated mind that you should find out how your cholesterol, blood sugar, and blood pressure are doing. If those are at healthy points, then learning to manage a low-carb without regaining the weight (thus impacting the aforementioned levels) would be a good place to go. 

FWIW, my BMI is 25.4. That's in the overweight range. My blood pressure has gone up also--which has never happened before. 

[ednkris]

Sept 22, 2018 12:39:00 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

Regarding what's enough for the full keto as opposed to the low-carb lifestyle: it seems to my un-medically-educated mind that you should find out how your cholesterol, blood sugar, and blood pressure are doing. If those are at healthy points, then learning to manage a low-carb without regaining the weight (thus impacting the aforementioned levels) would be a good place to go. 

FWIW, my BMI is 25.4. That's in the overweight range. My blood pressure has gone up also--which has never happened before. 

Absolutely I had a full exam and talked with my dr. Had 3 blood tests last year to monitor everything. I'm do to go back in Oct for another full exam. I couldn't grasp a fat enhanced diet would be good for lowering your cholesterol and tryglycerides, but they did lower as well as my A1C. 

[debthaven]

I had blood work done in June before I started dieting, everything was good.

[Opti]

Sept 22, 2018 12:39:00 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

Regarding what's enough for the full keto as opposed to the low-carb lifestyle: it seems to my un-medically-educated mind that you should find out how your cholesterol, blood sugar, and blood pressure are doing. If those are at healthy points, then learning to manage a low-carb without regaining the weight (thus impacting the aforementioned levels) would be a good place to go. 

FWIW, my BMI is 25.4. That's in the overweight range. My blood pressure has gone up also--which has never happened before. 

My blood pressure has gone up as I got older. It used to be low normal. The doctor told me blood vessels get less elastic as we age. It was normal, but has gotten to the point I take a low dose water pill to keep it in range. I have a feeling if I lost weight and went to a normal stress job, I'd be back in normal range.

My friend reminded me that at 58, that extra weight is a bigger impact and we really do not want to die from heart issues. Keto is not for me, as the rebound when I went off is a big reason I am as heavy as I am now. Plus I think some of us need more carbs than others to function at our best. My goal is to go to a low sugar added lifestyle and consume only the calories I need, or slightly less.

[debthaven]

Keto is not for me, as the rebound when I went off is a big reason I am as heavy as I am now.

It seems inevitable that if someone (not you specifically Opti ) does keto to lose weight, then stops keto and goes back to their old eating habits, they're going to gain it back, more or less quickly. To me the goal is to have learned different eating habits. Giving up sugar would be number one, IMO. Lowering carbs a close second.

Stop trying to find sugar substitutes (IMO) unless it's for a VERY RARE treat. I have a Stevia in my one or two cups of coffee at home, then DONE. I have one square of 70% chocolate, sometimes, and a half or whole low-carb fruit per day. (I'm going to have a problem with that as summer fruits become less available and more expensive.)

You need to change your old eating habits if you want to lose weight, not just find ways to replace things. JMO of course.

My sister just went off (her unique version of) keto and started a plant-based diet. She is the biggest carnivore I know, so to me that's just dumb, she'll never stick to it. (Obviously I did not tell her that. I did ask her if she knew the new diet doctor was plant-based, she said yes, so I shut up.) The best diet is the one you can stick to. When she was here two years ago, she would buy not one, not two, but THREE roast chickens at a time. So a plant-based diet doesn't seem like a great fit for her.

Although I haven't yet gone on the "maintenance" diet my doctor recommended, she told me to start eating one slice of whole grain bread in the morning, and then add starch to 3 other meals a week. THREE. That's 10 meals total, assuming I eat breakfast every day (and I don't.) And one slice of bread isn't much.

Most Westerners eat starch with EVERY meal, so 21 meals a week. Plus snacks. Even if they only eat starch twice a day, that's still 14 meals a week, plus the snacks. Even my DH (who is a HUGE potato/rice/pasta eater) has seen the light: not every meal needs to contain starch. DH bicycles a LOT so he's never had weight issues. But before I started this diet, he'd get angry if I tried to cut down on starches.

I've stalled again. I have a REALLY hard time drinking water. After 4 kids I pee all the time anyway. Between that and teaching long days, it's really hard for me to keep drinking. I try to make up for it on weekends but it's hard for me. I'm also just super super fed up.

[debthaven]

I'm no expert, I'm not a scientist and I don't play one on TV LOL. But the western world puts sugar in EVERYTHING, and portions (compared to when I was younger) are INSANE.

I remember when we were on the west coast a few years ago doing a road trip, there was a sign up in a diner outside SF, if you ask us for half-portions, we'll charge you double. Point taken.

[debthaven]

raeoflyte so sorry, just reread this page and saw your post! I will definitely look into the "clean eating" trend you mention ... I'm guessing it's no processed foods?

Thank you!

One of the friends who rented us the vacation house this summer just got his US cert as a personal trainer (he's 60, just retired). When I asked him for advice, he told me the same thing ... what comes after? And I told him I didn't know LOL.

[debthaven]

I lost another kilo on Wed, so I was down 12.5 kilos/27.5 lbs. 

One of my bestest friends from college was here from NY yesterday (Wed). By miracle I was off yesterday afternoon so we all had lunch out together, spent all afternoon together, had dinner together, then DH and I dropped them off at their hotel. M is my brother from another mother, we were 16 and 17 when we first met at college and now we're 58 (almost 59) and 59 (almost 60). I adore his DW, he adores my DH and we all get along so well. It's always such a fantastic treat to see them!!!

M is vegetarian, and a HUGE foodie. He made both reservations. So I decided, on this exceptional occasion, I would cheat on my diet. Amazingly, I DIDN'T cheat, except for (seriously) 1/2 square inch of sourdough bread. The bread was AMAZING!!! I also clocked up nearly 13000 steps that day. And had the most amazing ceviche I've ever eaten, WITHOUT BREAD! I had actually planned to bring two slices of my low-carb bread with me, but I woke up at 6 that day and forgot to pack it.

I still woke up 1k/2.2 lbs heavier on Thursday. :-(

Except for that 1/2 square inch of bread, I did not eat ANYTHING I wasn't allowed to eat, except a few carrot shavings, maybe 1/10 of a carrot. But I did eat more than I usually do.

SO depressing!!!

I finally hit 27 BMI Wed morning (before our Grand Day Out LOL). I know BMI is just a measure but I'd rather be at 27 BMI than 32 LOL.

How are the rest of you doing?

[debthaven]

To clarify, I didn't have the blood work done in order to go on this diet, I had it done for a colonoscopy. That's done under general here so you have to get all the blood work done beforehand.

[Opti]

"It seems inevitable that if someone (not you specifically Opti ) does keto to lose weight, then stops keto and goes back to their old eating habits, they're going to gain it back, more or less quickly."

I know you didn't reference me specifically, but I chose to do it at a bad time years ago. It was right before my on call week which ended up being the on call week from hell. So I didn't intentionally go off of it, it happened because I was sleep deprived by being woken up every hour during the night to help fix things coupled with I had a 15 minute tether of returning & acting on calls, so I ended up eating some things at home simply not to starve. I figured not sleeping was bad enough, starving too, would have made me stupid enough to possibly be useless when called. Where I needed to grocery shop unfortunately was way out from my 15 minute tether.

Its not right for me though, although I do want to control sugar. I need something where needing to change quickly won't be so disastrous. I also think low carb may be less good for me personally as in how I feel and how I think, than many others. You need to adapt your diet to how your body works. Speaking of which, I don't think I can do Paleo in the short term. I may need to return to my tried and true breakfast which tends to make me eat and desire less sugar later in the day. For some reason oatmeal and grapefruit juice work for me.

[debthaven]

Opti oatmeal is a great breakfast if you're not on keto! I LOVE oatmeal but have always eaten it with brown sugar. I haven't had it since last winter, well before I started this diet.

However, know that there's a LOT of sugar in fruit juice. A glass of fruit juice is actually the juice of several fruits, and fruits have (natural) sugar. It makes sense when you think about it. Some people cut fruit juice with water. I don't drink juice anymore.

I also try to keep low carb/low sugar snacks at home, things like eggs, cheese, sausage, bacon and my low-carb bread. I keep low-carb/low-sugar breakfast bars at both schools because I can't eat breakfast before I leave the house at 6.45 or 7. And I live in the land of amazing cheese, but amazing cheese goes on good bread, so I eat a lot of mini Babybels LOL.

I wish you the best on whatever weight-loss path you choose.

[Opti]

Yes I am taking more care on the fruit juice. I avoid dairy and I was taught young to eat cereal dry, so I usually eat oatmeal dry and uncooked. The old-fashioned rolled oats, just plain. Sometimes I have moistened it with almond milk or juice, but that's not common. I have dropped my juice servings to 4oz. now.

I'm trying to find a path that works as unfortunately I am a stress eater, so I need to not buy certain things sometimes. Non dairy cheese is pricey and nowhere as healthy as regular cheese IMO. Years ago I used to buy jerky sticks from the health food store, but I think I need to stick with more reasonable things like nuts, preferably in those 100 calorie pkgs.

[debthaven]

Today was fun. Tuesdays are my day from hell (with a 6 am alarm on Wednesdays). My two closest friends at work both cornered me (individually) to tell me to please stop keto because it can't be helping with the fact that I'm REALLY struggling with this crazy overloaded semester. Another friend did the exact same thing on Sat.

Frankly it's a struggle, to acknowledge that they mean well, they're certainly not wrong, and to politely tell them to F off.  

I do acknowledge that they're surely not wrong. I'm doing keto because it is making me lose weight. Personally I do not agree with all the "I have never felt better in my life" and "I finally have mental clarity" and "I have so much energy now" posts I see on Reddit.

To me it's not a lifestyle, it's just a way to shed unwanted pounds. (Obviously I realize I can't go back to my former carb consumption or I'll just gain everything back, but I do NOT aspire to be on Keto for the rest of my life.)

I've also stalled again. The weight loss is REALLY slow at this point.

[debthaven]

So just curious, what are your goals? I have another 5 kilos to lose if I don't want to be overweight anymore. At best, that's another 10 weeks.

I went from slightly obese to the lower end of overweight (32 to 27 BMI).

Frankly, at this point, I REALLY don't care if I'm a bit overweight.

My friends are all telling me to go on "maintenance". I'm like, um, you go on maintenance when you've hit your goal weight, or slightly under! But not when you're still trying to lose weight! 

Any thoughts? What are YOUR goals?

[ednkris]

I have stalled actually went off last week. Travelled dd2 gave birth to our dgs2. While travelling Dw and I were weak. Travelling again this week hopefully starting back up on next Monday 

[debthaven]

Congrats on the new Grandbaby ednkris !

The great thing about this diet is even if you go off, you can just get right back on! Good luck!

[debthaven]

This was the first week since I started this diet in late June that I didn't lose ANY weight. 

I was very discouraged, and I cheated today. I had about 40 g of carbs: 5 pieces of macaroni (the first pasta I've had!), and 4 breaded shrimp. There's a salad place I really like and I was craving one of their shrimp salads. They stopped doing the one without the pasta, so I bought the one with the pasta and took out all but 5 pieces of macaroni.

I think I may be done with 20 carbs per day. I'm so burnt out. The worst thing is, I feel like those extra carbs gave me a TON of energy today! But I know it may well all be in my head, ie the fact that it's my weekend. (I don't teach on Fridays.)

[raeoflyte]

Oct 2, 2018 15:46:57 GMT -5 debthaven said:

So just curious, what are your goals? I have another 5 kilos to lose if I don't want to be overweight anymore. At best, that's another 10 weeks.

I went from slightly obese to the lower end of overweight (32 to 27 BMI).

Frankly, at this point, I REALLY don't care if I'm a bit overweight.

My friends are all telling me to go on "maintenance". I'm like, um, you go on maintenance when you've hit your goal weight, or slightly under! But not when you're still trying to lose weight! 

Any thoughts? What are YOUR goals?

I don't think there is a problem with taking a break from actively trying to lose weight and just focusing on maintaining for a while.  My doc talks a lot about how maintaining is definitely harder than losing.  If you have a holiday break you could start it up again then, or wait till next summer (or just until you feel the time is right).  

[debthaven]

raeoflyte to me maintaining was something you do AFTER you hit your goal weight (and ideally a little more). But I think you are probably right.

I definitely need a break from the rigidity of keto. I know that I know enough now to not to put it all back on. 

Thank you.

[debthaven]

I've made my decision ... I'm going to stay on keto for 2.5 more weeks, but being less strict when we go out (which is very rare anyway).

In one week I'll be on a reduced schedule for a week, with a TON of marking. I'm scared that if I go off keto that week, I'll eat a ton of crap while I mark.

But AFTER that week, when I go back to school, I'm going up to 50g of carbs per day. That's not keto, but it's low carb.

Thank you raeoflyte , that was so helpful! Especially mentioning breaks, because it made me realize that I do probably do NOT want to be at home when I go off keto.

 

[debthaven]

After having stalled for 2 weeks, I finally lost another kilo today.

My friends/colleagues at work tried another intervention today LOL. They said first you said 10K, then 12K, now you're at 13.5K and still going.

And I said yes LOL. I told them I will go on maintenance at 15K. I'm guessing that will be in about 2 weeks. PLEASE FRIENDS, HOLD ME ACCOUNTABLE TO THAT. I will still be overweight but I don't care.

I actually HAVE started eating differently. Last weekend I traveled 7h (round trip) to a department meeting on the main campus. ONLY mini sandwiches and one TINY platter of veggies and one TINY platter of fruits. For 100 people!!!

I discreetly ate the insides of several sandwiches, but did have a couple of very small slices of bread. And I ate two mini-eclairs too.

Sun VERY strict.

Monday I had a tablespoon of carrots and a tablespoon of lentils at lunch. Both are forbidden on keto, first time I've eaten either in 4 months!

Today I bought a small salad, 5g of carbs for 2/3 of the salad. Didn't realize it included apple (very high carb). Ate half, tossed the rest.

How are YOU guys doing?!

[Artemis Windsong]

I'm not on LC right now.  I was cooking for 2 households while friend recuperated from surgery.  It was too hard to do LC also.  Exercise is sporadic instead of on schedule.  Does not look promising the next few weeks.

A friend said it's not a slip up but a pattern now.  Wrong pattern.  

[raeoflyte]

Oct 9, 2018 16:06:56 GMT -5 debthaven said:

After having stalled for 2 weeks, I finally lost another kilo today.

My friends/colleagues at work tried another intervention today LOL. They said first you said 10K, then 12K, now you're at 13.5K and still going.

And I said yes LOL. I told them I will go on maintenance at 15K. I'm guessing that will be in about 2 weeks. PLEASE FRIENDS, HOLD ME ACCOUNTABLE TO THAT. I will still be overweight but I don't care.

This is one of the big reasons I don't talk about my weight with people I know irl, outside of dh and my doctor.  I don't associate value to food like good or bad.   I just eat what I want and leave others in peace to eat.  Everyone has an opinion and it's usually wrong.  If someone is super pushy I tell them if I didn't discuss my weight gain with you, I'm not going to discuss any weight loss either.  There is always someone thrilled to talk about their diet, weight loss etc. so those people can go talk to them.  

And....congrats on the kilo!  

[debthaven]

raeoflyte I have a HORRIFIC schedule at work this semester. So to be honest I know these people all mean well. They think if I eat more carbs I'll be less tired, and not cry every Tues (my day from HELL) like I do now. I cry every Tuesday, either leaving school (thankfully not recently) or on the train or when I get home. But the real issue there is my schedule, not my diet. 

These people all know I'm doing "a very strict diet", but they don't know the details. The VERY rare times someone asked me what diet I was doing, and I respond "keto", they don't know what I'm talking about. They just see that I am REALLY struggling with work this semester.  

I totally agree with your comment, but it's not coming from me giving them details of the dieting, it's coming from the fact that they realize I'm barely coping these days, and they know that there's a lot of things I won't eat (because I do tell them I try to avoid carbs). So they think telling me to eat more carbs is the solution.

 

Hope this makes sense.

PS Also, raeoflyte , frankly I can become VERY obsessive. So I know my close friends/colleagues are worried about that too.