azphx1972
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Post by azphx1972 on Mar 30, 2011 16:40:18 GMT -5
Just don't take on any hot female roommies. ;D
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qofcc
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Post by qofcc on Mar 30, 2011 16:44:21 GMT -5
I would recommend selling the house and moving somewhere less expensive before taking in roommates. They're trying to establish a stable family life for a 14 year old girl who had some type of problem situation in her last home. Unless that roommate is a close family member, that's the last thing I would want to do.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Mar 30, 2011 16:48:55 GMT -5
What you want and what you get aren't always the same when you bring in $4500 a month and spend $7000.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 30, 2011 16:52:44 GMT -5
I would recommend selling the house and moving somewhere less expensive before taking in roommates. They're trying to establish a stable family life for a 14 year old girl who had some type of problem situation in her last home. Unless that roommate is a close family member, that's the last thing I would want to do.
This.
But geez Louise, this is a bad situation. It didn't sound so dire to begin with, I was picturing something more in the neighborhood of a $500 shortfall for basics.
Lena, I think she has every right to be angry with her husband over this. How dare he start a new business right now knowing it would leave them holding the bag for several thousand dollars a month when they have a new teenager to support?
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Mar 30, 2011 17:00:33 GMT -5
He did contribute when he was making money. He started the business with her blessing. She didn't say she didn't want him to. And now, 6 mo later, she is huffing and puffing that they don't have enough money and he is not moving fast enough. Well, they have money for a horse. They took in a child that SHE wanted. His business "season" hasn't even started yet. So, what is she huffing and puffing about??? Give him a chance.
Lena
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 30, 2011 17:05:05 GMT -5
She doesn't have time to give him a chance. They're more than $3,000 in the hole every month. Unless they've got a six-figure savings account, they're in deep trouble.
Point taken, though, about her responsibility in getting them to this situation. I'm shocked that they did this AND took on a kid at a time when they were so deeply dependent on such a significant income stream from him.
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qofcc
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Post by qofcc on Mar 30, 2011 17:08:13 GMT -5
How dare he start a new business right now knowing it would leave them holding the bag for several thousand dollars a month when they have a new teenager to support?
The way I read it was he already had a business, but whatever he was doing stopped making money (I read it that his service became obsolete somehow), so he went and got certified for this new related thing for the new business, but busy season is around the corner and he's screwing around with the fun little details like thinking up names for the business instead of working on a business plan and getting his certification finalized.
It sounds like the next couple of months are critical and if he doesn't hit the ground running, they're going to have to do something drastic.
And I agree she has every right to be pissed that he's not getting himself organized as fast as she thinks he ought to. He exceeded the time allowance they agreed on to get the new business up and running and she's picking up the slack on paying the bills. Seems like the least he could do would be to work on the checklist of things that she says needs to be done to get the business going and make her feel like things are getting closer to being OK. She has invested time and money in the business, he owes her that much.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Mar 30, 2011 17:09:48 GMT -5
How dare he start a new business right now knowing it would leave them holding the bag for several thousand dollars a month when they have a new teenager to support? What happened to all the team talk from the last page? They're partners right? They made the decision together. She chose to help him start a business. She chose to bring a teenager into their lives. It can't all be his fault. 90% of new businesses don't work. The number is probably even higher when the economy sucks. They both chose to try and buck those numbers. It's not fair to lay all the blame on him when the math hit back. If he doesn't go get a real job PDQ to help out with the household expenses once they decide to pull the plug on the business, fine, crucify him. At the moment though I think it's premature to blame only the guy for their situation.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Mar 30, 2011 17:10:13 GMT -5
You can't change rules half way through. Yes, she can say to him or he can say to himself - wow, we need cash now and see what he can do. But she doesn't have much right to get angry at him and make his life miserable with her nagging.
She needs to stop looking at HIM for solutions and look at BOTH of them for solutions. It should be "them", not "him" and "her"
Lena
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Mar 30, 2011 17:11:28 GMT -5
And btw, SHE doesn't think he is organized. May be he is. Again, he is not 5, he ran a business before. She didn't say it failed bc of HIM, but economy. So, what is her problem??
Lena
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 30, 2011 17:12:52 GMT -5
What happened to all the team talk from the last page? They're partners right? They made the decision together. She chose to help him start a business. She chose to bring a teenager into their lives. It can't all be his fault.
I know, I already conceded this point. They share the blame equally. My shock over how deep in it they are colored my post #95.
I still feel, though, that he had a responsibility to have a good exit plan in place. And I do think he needs to wake up and recognize the position that his business failure is putting them in.
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azphx1972
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Post by azphx1972 on Mar 30, 2011 17:17:16 GMT -5
There's no point in playing the blame game at this point; it's not going to help with anything. What they need are viable solutions, even if those are unappealing. The amount of savings they have will determine how quickly they have to act, but if they're already relying on 0% credit cards I'd say the situation sounds pretty dire. No option is going to be ideal, but some sacrifices will have to be made. Cut all expenses but the bare necessities, do whatever it takes to increase income, and consider ditching the house at some point soon if things don't improve. None of this is to be taken lightly of course, and without knowing them personally, I'm reluctant to say that my advice is absolutely correct.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 30, 2011 17:17:25 GMT -5
You can't change rules half way through. Yes, she can say to him or he can say to himself - wow, we need cash now and see what he can do. But she doesn't have much right to get angry at him and make his life miserable with her nagging.
That goes both ways, though. It sounds like they had an agreement that he would always work, and that he sold her on this business by promising that he could continue to contribute as he had in the past. If that turned out not to be the case because of a bad economy, he had a responsibility to pull out and get a job so he could continue contributing, as per the terms of their original agreement.
If I agreed to contribute $3,500 per month to my household budget, you better believe I would have a plan for contributing $3,500 per month to my household budget before I started a business that would take away my ability to earn $3,500 per month and that plan would be independent of the success or failure of the business.
Also, I'm reading the business problems as a function of both the economy and his lack of drive for running his own business. That's a lethal combination. If he's not cut out to be a business owner, he needs to pull out fast.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 30, 2011 17:19:39 GMT -5
There's no point in playing the blame game at this point; it's not going to help with anything. What they need are viable solutions, even if those are unappealing. The amount of savings they have will determine how quickly they have to act, but if they're already relying on 0% credit cards I'd say the situation sounds pretty dire. No option is going to be ideal, but some sacrifices will have to be made. Cut all expenses but the bare necessities, do whatever it takes to increase income, and consider ditching the house at some point soon if things don't improve. None of this is to be taken lightly of course, and without knowing them personally, I'm reluctant to say that my advice is absolutely correct. Gave you karma for this post. It's 100% true. I would only add that her DH needs to be on board with these nuclear options - which won't happen until he realizes the extent of the trouble his lack of income is causing. OP, does he actually realize how far in the hole you are and how quickly you are scheduled to drown?
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Mar 30, 2011 17:20:40 GMT -5
And I do think he needs to wake up and recognize the position that his business failure is putting them in. I agree, but you're still looking at it wrong in my opinion. They BOTH need to wake up. She's still on board with the business too at this point. It's important to keep in mind. She's not naggin him to get a job. She's nagging him to start the business faster. A business that might not even work out. They've already got stuff sitting on the credit cards. They're in the hole about 3 grand a month. And I'd bet hundred dollar bills to pennies that there's going to be more debt involved from start up expenses. From where I'm sitting, and the info we have, neither one of them seems to be operating fully in reality right now.
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qofcc
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Post by qofcc on Mar 30, 2011 17:20:42 GMT -5
I still feel, though, that he had a responsibility to have a good exit plan in place.
They probably do need an exit plan, but the problem is she doesn't think there's a good ENTRANCE plan yet. And maybe Lena is right and he knows what he's doing, but the fact is that she's investing money in the business and she works in a job in finance and says she understands about business plans and he doesn't seem to be able to articulate his plan to her. She says he's going to need more money soon to buy supplies and equipment and she's the only one with credit, so he really does owe it to her to PROVE that he's organized so she can feel comfortable giving him more money. She's already paid for the training and agreed to give it a try, so it seems that it would be foolish to back out now, but if she was any other investor or business partner, she could reasonably expect him to show her proof of progress and planning. Why should she not expect that just because they're married?
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azphx1972
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Post by azphx1972 on Mar 30, 2011 17:26:35 GMT -5
Gave you karma for this post. It's 100% true. I would only add that her DH needs to be on board with these nuclear options - which won't happen until he realizes the extent of the trouble his lack of income is causing. Thanks, and I agree that they both need to come to an agreement regarding the severity of the situation so that they can be on the same page in making the necessary hard decisions. I think their marriage can survive this if they work together, and I wish them the best of luck.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 30, 2011 17:27:24 GMT -5
From where I'm sitting, and the info we have, neither one of them seems to be operating fully in reality right now.
To put it mildly.
She says he's going to need more money soon to buy supplies and equipment and she's the only one with credit, so he really does owe it to her to PROVE that he's organized so she can feel comfortable giving him more money. She's already paid for the training and agreed to give it a try, so it seems that it would be foolish to back out now, but if she was any other investor or business partner, she could reasonably expect him to show her proof of progress and planning. Why should she not expect that just because they're married?
'Xactly. They can both take equal responsibility for the OUTCOME of the business, but he's the one who has to apply the seat of his pants to the seat of his chair and do the actual work involved in getting from Point A to Point B. If she's investing the money, she should certainly be able to expect him to invest the effort.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2011 17:32:34 GMT -5
I'm with Firebird on the shock and awe when seeing the budget. If it had been posted on the first page I think the responses would have been very different.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2011 17:33:32 GMT -5
Do you mind stating what the business is? What are the realistic projections on the income it can bring in? Small businesses usually take awhile to hit their earning potential - can you afford to wait that long? Does your DH have any other employable skills?
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Mar 30, 2011 17:54:58 GMT -5
I third (or fourth?) the electricity audit idea, that bill can't be right. How much are they charging per kwh? Unless it's $0.30+, or your house is 8,000sf, there is some major leakage going on.
You should also be able to trim your food bill - I've cut ours from $600 to $400 in just the last few months by following some of the couponing threads. Try to get that to $400-$450 if you can.
Of course, these are just plugs in the dam - in order to sustain yourselves long-term, either some major cuts (selling the house) or major increases in income are necessary. Does your DH realize how much shortfall you've been having? My husband is similar to yours and DQs, but I'd have to think being faced with a budget like that would be a wake-up call.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Mar 30, 2011 19:31:59 GMT -5
That's parent/child, bank/borrower relationship, not marriage relationship. I, personally, wouldn't tolerate it.
And yes, I get it that he agreed to contribute a certain amount, but even from her side, it doesn't sound like he just bluntly disregarded his responsibilities. Things happen. My whole point is that I don't think her blaming him is 1) justified and 2) is useful. She doesn't seem to be taking an approach of looking for solutions together and she should if she wants her marriage and her sanity to survive.
Lena
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Mar 30, 2011 19:38:35 GMT -5
Oh and on the point that she is in finance - that only puts more blame on her. Anyone who has any kind of basic accounting/finance knowledge should be able to estimate certain start-up and initial business costs. She knew what kind of business he wanted to have, she should have been able to have some kind of forecast of expenses for the near future and take that into consideration.
She also knew that he is not that good with money/finances, so she should have stepped up and make sure that their financial situation could support his ideas.
Lena
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2011 19:43:29 GMT -5
WOW... OP more power to you. I would not be able to sleep with that kind of short fall every month.
I suggest for now: - cut back on the 401K contributions - cut all expenses to the bones - adjust your withholdings.
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trytofindbalance
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Post by trytofindbalance on Mar 30, 2011 19:55:08 GMT -5
Whoa, whoa, whoa everybody hold your horses. You guys are making lots of assumptions that aren't true here.
DH has had his own contracting business for many years. It took a complete dive over the last 2 years. He went back to school this past September to get his home inspection license. We both have a lot of contacts in real estate and we figured he could continue to work both businesses as he grows the new one.
DH does earn money and he does contribute to the household. Some months he gets close to his goal, some months not so much. We have had a few rough months because the weather has been very bad this winter, so it has been difficult to get jobs and we have also had a tough year with many large, unexpected bills as I explained before.
We have a fairly decent savings account because of his irregular income; however, with the tough economy, bad weather, lack of work, additional expenses, we have had to use some of that money and haven't been able to replace it. I am aware that if things continue to go down that path, things could get bad quickly,
Our budget was actually very sensible for our incomes. We had an $8000 contribution and only $6250 worth of expenses and some of those were easily cut. I wanted to show you what my real budget looks like. We did not have the credit card payoff when the budget was first written. We decided to take advantage of two 0 percent offers to pay for school and truck repairs, because I wanted to make sure we had cash on hand when business was slow and for new business expenses.
Yes, DH had my blessing to start this business, but their were many discussions about bringing in income during this time and timeframes.
Lena---I'm a bit insulted by your assumptions. I'm not sure if you've read my posts. DH and I am not fighting all of the time and I am not nasty and bitchy with him all day long. We actually have a wonderful relationship but this situation is stressful on top of a very trying year with lots of emotional issues mixed in. I am not angry with him for the economy tanking and I am not angry with him because he is not contributing his full share of the money. I am concerned that we will get ourselves in a position that will be difficult to get out of and I am trying to stop that from happening before it gets out of control. My DH is a grown man, he lives in this house, uses the electricity and heat and eats the food here. He has a responsibility to contribute to those expenses. He knew that I felt that way before he chose to marry me...so nothing changed on my end. He knows what our budget and expenses are. He knows that we are a team and that I am supportive of his choices to start this business. I am just frustrated that it is taking so long and I think he should be more motivated to make it happen faster, especially because of the stress it is creating for me. And no I didn't make my husband take in a child at a bad time...that's quite a presumption on your part. It's difficult to explain every detail when writing responses, but DH was onboard with that decision and it was discussed at length before we made a final decision.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Mar 30, 2011 20:06:05 GMT -5
Nothing to be insulted by. I didn't say you do it all day long. YOU said you were angry, and I said you have no reason to be. Things don't always work out in the time frame that YOU or anyone else besides G-d think they might. I said - give him a chance. He knew how you felt and you knew who he was. Unless he drastically changed in the last year, my point still stands - you have nothing to complain or be angry about. And if you are, that only makes things worse. From any of your posts, I've yet to see what he did/does wrong.
Lena
ETA: I didn't say that YOU made him take the child. I said that YOU wanted it and he supported you.
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trytofindbalance
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Post by trytofindbalance on Mar 30, 2011 20:06:08 GMT -5
I am aware that our electric bill seems outrageous. We have oil heat, so everything in the house uses electricity...stove, hot water heater, clothes dryer etc. I have already called the electric company and they haven't been much help. The previous owner paid about $300 a month on the equal payment plan and that was before energy prices went up here. We keep the heat low and the air conditioning high. Our house is only 1900 square feet. Yes folks, where I live a 1900 square foot, 3 bed/2 bath home that needed tons of work cost ove $400k and that was a great deal. When the market was high this little house was appraised at over $800K. My friend bought a townhouse right down the road from me, shortly before we bought this house. She paid THE SAME for her townhouse and pays almost as much in taxes, plus she pays a monthly maintenance fee.
Yes, I deal with my company's finances for a living. That is why I am acutely sensative to financial matters. That is why when we agreed to do the business I was adamant about timeframes. I knew that my DH was going to be bringing in much less income and I knew that we were going to have to tighten the belt...which we did. We decided that DH would have the new business ready to go January 2011. It's almost April people and there is still a lot to be done. That is why I am disappointed and upset. I know how important it is to hit these marks, so we can start having income coming in again. And yes, I did plan for down time and start up costs. I figured it all in and gave some leeway too, but now time is of the essence.
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lurkyloo
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Post by lurkyloo on Mar 30, 2011 20:33:46 GMT -5
OP,
First off, thank you so much for posting the numbers. I know it's scary and opens you up to a lot of criticism, but it also gives us a much clearer picture and will help us give much better advice.
Second, you are absolutely right to be stressed and worried. Regardless of how it came about, that is a huge shortfall, and I honestly think it's borderline unforgivable for your husband to stick his head in the sand like he is. You can't continue as you are.
My suggestion would be that it's time to cut back, hard. Part of this is for sheer survival; but a nearly-as-important part is, as dramaq keeps mentioning, for him to see the result of his inaction. Maybe he can live on a bare minimalist shoestring, but how is he going to feel when his wife and adopted daughter have to give things up? You can't afford the horse. You can't afford your car. Whatever you're spending $700 on in terms of food, you're going to have to cut back--ditto with the $700 slush. You really can't afford your house on just your salary.
I would take your 4500 salary, subtract the mortgage and utilities that can't be cut back. You're left with about $800 by my calculations--and that has to cover groceries, car expenses, and everything else. You can't afford both groceries and your car costs. But if he'd pick up any kind of job--delivering pizzas, working for someone else as a subordinate in his chosen field--life would be a hell of a lot easier. He can still pursue his training/certification/whatever in his spare time, but starting a business can't be his only focus anymore. It can't even really be his main one. Because the result of his following his dream is that he's actively hurting his wife and daughter. And, all gender stereotypes aside, it takes a very small person to be okay with actively hurting one's child and spouse.
Lena: we appreciate different viewpoints here, but I really don't see how trying to assign more blame to the OP is going to help very much. Maybe they were both wrong. So what? They need more money now than they have coming in, by a lot. Venting on an anonymous message board may help the OP get some frustration out so that she can talk to her husband with less blame behind it. And it's for sure that they both have to work (in the employment sense and as a team as well) to get things under control here.
Couple last questions: what's the balance vs KBB value on your car? Is there any possibility of reducing that liability?
Finally, I'm sorry for your loss--both the lost baby and the lost dream of having biological children. I hope your adopted daughter brings you a great deal of joy.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 30, 2011 20:40:52 GMT -5
I don't understand why you aren't receiving money for your foster child?
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Mar 30, 2011 21:58:41 GMT -5
OK, my last post on this topic, bc it's pretty obvious I can't get my point across clearly enough.
I am not blaming her for anything. She is blaming him. And MY opinion is that she doesn't have anything to blame him for.
He had has ran his own business FOR YEARS, so he knows that it takes to run one He didn't do anything wrong to loose that business He is trying to start a new business to improve the situation and contribute He IS bringing money home. He said he knows what's going and what needs to be done.
And yet, she is angry that he is not doing what SHE thinks he needs to be doing. Does she not trust him at all???
So, my suggestion to her was (after all, she did ask for suggestions) was to look at her expectations a bit more objectively. He doesn't sound like he is lazy or a moron. Things don't always go as planned. Get angry, vent, but get over it and move on. Would be much more productive.
Lena
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