8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Apr 6, 2011 11:41:31 GMT -5
...:::"There is a good solution to the bathroom sink problem: call a plumber.":::...
As a man, I can tell you that if you want to really teach your man a lesson, then go this route. If you've heard "I'll get to it" for long enough, first say "if its not done by <x>, I'm calling a plumber" and then schedule the plumber to come the day after <x>. Your husbands will absolutely HATE that they got called out on their procrastination, and said procrastination means that they will have to pay probably 5 to 10 times the DIY cost, as well as the fact that the wife was justified in having no faith in her husband, and that another man got the job done.
I just wish that when the one need I want met isn't met, that I could call a "professional". Double standards... enjoy them ladies.
...:::"If the guy wasn't a procrastinator, then you wouldn't need to ask more than once, would you? Unless the problem is with you having unrealistic expectations.":::...
Again, you also need to realize that procrastination is NOT always the reason something doesn't get done.
Its garbage like this which makes me feel like I have to record conversations and have a union rep present when DF and I negotiate chores. Its like I have to explicitly say "now you understand that I am currently working on <A> and that if I stop <A> to do <B>, that <A> will become second priority. Is this correct? OK, I am hearing that you are saying that <B> is now a higher priority than <A> therefore I am interpreting that to mean that you understand that by working on <B>, <A> will not get done on the schedule it was originally intended, and you are forbidden from giving me crap for it.
...:::"but he made it happen that day...guess he didn't want to take a cold shower either":::...
I know that was kind of a joke, but you've highlighted one of the keys for influencing someone's behavior. Make sure that they themselves feel the swift, immediate, and severe consequences of their procrastination. I bet if DQ's favorite towelrack had fallen and ripped a chunk of drywall in the process, and he then had to deal with fixing that instead of just taking down a rack... not to mention the "I told ya so", he'd learn his lesson.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Apr 6, 2011 11:47:13 GMT -5
...:::"Sometimes I see things as vital and all important and he just doesn't.":::...
This definitely describes DF and I, and often also comes up in our discussions. I simply do not care if a few dishes have water spots on them. To her, they might as well be caked in urine.
...:::"He knows I am a list maker and that I don't let much get brushed under the rug.":::...
I have a rule about lists, even though I know it never gets respected: the list has to shrink faster than it grows. I'll do my best to work at a pace that allows that to happen, but if I finish 3 jobs, and the list grows by 5, then I'm going to give up. At that point, I get the same level of negativity if there are 20 outstanding tasks as 30 or 40, so why sweat it?
I think that also touches on what was discussed before. Some of you are complaining that they don't do the "little bits every day". But when the list grows so quickly as to be overwhelming, it might as well be gigantic.
...:::"I have to say that I'm not sure your marriage counselor gave you good advice about the "just ask once and don't nag". That's a bunch of BS.":::...
The advice that DQ's counselor gave was fine, as "level 1". If her DH had, in turn, followed through, the issue would have ended. The problem is that he did not. So then DQ was right (and I'm sure she was thrilled at being validated... I would be too) in coming back and saying "OK dude, I held up my end of the bargain and didn't nag, but YOU didn't hold up your end, so what do I do now?".
I've had this discussion with my DF, and that is usually when I bring out the "the reason it didn't get done is because I was doing 40 other things".
Thankfully, of late, its been much less of an issue. Many of the behaviors I'm describing haven't happened for a few weeks or months. Still though, that doesn't mean at any time they can't resurface...
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 6, 2011 11:47:34 GMT -5
Again, you also need to realize that procrastination is NOT always the reason something doesn't get doneI've been with DH long enough to know when it is procrastination vs something else. I've learned that I need to have a deadline in my head of how long I am willing to let him sit on it before I say something or do it myself. "say it once and don't nag" works if it is really is because you are riding his ass too hard. It's been over a year now since we bought paint for the house. He's been saying that entire year he will paint. .. I've said nothing. As of yesterday he just started moving furniture out of the bedroom to paint. I suppose you can argue better late than never and really it isn't a huge deal because we're just repainting over yucky colors. But when it is something BIG, how long are you supposed to "not nag?" That's the part that the counseler didn't address.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Apr 6, 2011 11:57:33 GMT -5
"I just wish that when the one need I want met isn't met, that I could call a "professional". Double standards... enjoy them ladies."
*Snort*--If my needs in that area aren't met I'm not allowed to outsource either, WWBG. Where's the double standard?
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trytofindbalance
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Post by trytofindbalance on Apr 6, 2011 12:22:02 GMT -5
WWBG "This definitely describes DF and I, and often also comes up in our discussions. I simply do not care if a few dishes have water spots on them. To her, they might as well be caked in urine" Funny that you mention this. This is DH not me. He almost had a stroke this morning when I was making a sandwich with lunch meat and I didn't wash my hands before I closed the package or put it back in the fridge. He was convinced that my hands were covered in "lunch meat slime" (which they weren't) and now it was all over the place. He really had a meltdown. He got an earful from me and ended up apologizing and admitting that I wasn't quite the slob he was saying I was and that he was clearly over reacting. I did assure him that if I had to perform surgery on him right after I made a sandwich I would be glad to wash my hands. So you see, some men are really anal about the house too. Don't get me wrong, I like the house clean, but I don't usually cross over to OCD insanity about it.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Apr 6, 2011 12:31:17 GMT -5
...:::"He almost had a stroke this morning when I was making a sandwich with lunch meat and I didn't wash my hands before I closed the package or put it back in the fridge.":::...
This is akin to parents dousing their kids in hand sanitizer, and then wondering why Jr. is always getting sick. DF very much creates her own fears about cleanliness. Sometimes she is justified, but other times it just seems like needless worry. It gets to the point where its like I need to wash my hands constantly. If I really want to be a jerk, I'll make a joke about the "dirty air" and "I'm existing in the same time continuum as germs".
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trytofindbalance
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Post by trytofindbalance on Apr 6, 2011 12:40:12 GMT -5
Drama - I really think that some of these so called counselors are living on another planet. I do think that sometimes they have valuable advise and that they can assist in helping people see both sides to an issue more easily, because we tend to get very emotional over disagreements with our spouses and we most likely don't always "hear" them or express ourselves properly. That being said, some of their advise is just not going to work in some situations. They don't live in our houses and deal with our issues day in and day out. Communication is key and they should be able to assist in that way, but I think that sometimes we all need to do what works in our little corner of the world. The bottom line is that you truly can't change anyone else's behavior period. They may choose to modify it themselves if they know that something is a causing a conflict, but they may not. I have learned to adjust to some of my DH's personality traits, but I also know that there are some issues that I am never going to accept, because that is my personality. He is also learning that he has to meet me halfway on things as well. We've only been married for 2 years (living together for 3 1/2) and our life has drastically changed during that time. Things have been much better lately. I am working really hard on not letting myself get so riled up when he doesn't act exactly as I expect or want him to. It doesn't mean we don't discuss the issue at hand and that I don't let him know how I feel about it, I'm just listening better and trying not to jump directly to anger. It also doesn't mean that I don't get angry sometimes. He seems to be learning that there are also things about me that are never going to change and if he wants harmony in the house, he's going to have to adjust his behavior too. It's a long process and we're just breaking the surface. I'm sure we'll have plenty of future disagreements as we learn to navigate through this marriage together.
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trytofindbalance
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Post by trytofindbalance on Apr 6, 2011 12:51:04 GMT -5
WWBG - he wasn't worried about the germs, he was worried about the "slime" getting on surfaces and making them sticky and messy. It was all about the house being dirty. My DH never goes to the Dr. and he never takes medicine. He hates antibiotics and he thinks they make your body's immune system weak. The only exception to that, since I've known him, was when he had to take antibiotics for Lyme's disease - no way he was going to risk that. He actually almost never gets sick, so he might be on to something.
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qofcc
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Post by qofcc on Apr 6, 2011 12:57:45 GMT -5
Again, you also need to realize that procrastination is NOT always the reason something doesn't get done.
Its garbage like this which makes me feel like I have to record conversations and have a union rep present when DF and I negotiate chores. Its like I have to explicitly say "now you understand that I am currently working on <A> and that if I stop <A> to do <B>, that <A> will become second priority. Is this correct? OK, I am hearing that you are saying that <B> is now a higher priority than <A> therefore I am interpreting that to mean that you understand that by working on <B>, <A> will not get done on the schedule it was originally intended, and you are forbidden from giving me crap for it.
You're right, sometimes it's not a question of procrastination, but priorities. Sometimes during the 2nd or third reminder I have to point out that yes I know you're working on 40 other things, but I need this one to go to the top of the list. I've been waiting 5 years for him to make doors for the utility openings in the basement and we periodically discuss it when we update our punch list. I'm not giving up on it, but I understand that it's not a high priority. On the other hand, when I ask him to bring in the tube of silicone caulk that I gave him to store in the garage so I can glue something that broke, I expect it to happen the next time he takes a break from what he's working on. It should not be something I have to nag him about for 4 days.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Apr 6, 2011 14:58:45 GMT -5
...:::"On the other hand, when I ask him to bring in the tube of silicone caulk that I gave him to store in the garage so I can glue something that broke, I expect it to happen the next time he takes a break from what he's working on. It should not be something I have to nag him about for 4 days.":::...
I'm very glad you used this example.
One thing the counselors need to tell the nagging spouses... Asking your spouse to do something tiny like "can you get the caulk from the garage" makes you look lazy and demanding, and is a REAL waste of political capital. Its one thing if he is on his way out to the garage already, or will be soon. But when you essentially send him to "fetch" something that you could go get yourself, then you are wasting your goodwill.
Seriously, these kinds of requests just make me want to roll my eyes, and make nasty comments. I'll usually fulfill the request, but it makes me feel like a dog or a butler. It just really makes me think less and less of her, because these are the types of things that I would NEVER ask anyone else to do. I would just do it myself. These are also the things I might practice "spousal deafness" on.
I think that most people can only handle a certain amount of requests in a time period. Do you really want to waste your allotment on 5 things you can do yourself, only to then have him yell at you when the 6th request is something you actually really need?
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qofcc
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Post by qofcc on Apr 6, 2011 15:16:05 GMT -5
But when you essentially send him to "fetch" something that you could go get yourself, then you are wasting your goodwill.
Sorry, I should have made that more clear. I gave him the tube of expensive silicone caulk to store in the garage for me. This garage is a combination of two separate indoor buildings with 8' high shelving units and contains more stuff than the local hardware store. I went to look for it myself and I couldn't find it. He told me several times that he knew exactly where it was and he would bring it in. Then he kept saying he forgot and would get it next time he went outdoors, then he forgot again for the next 3 days. I limited my requests to one per day. After the 3rd day, I finally told him that if he didn't go get me the caulk I was going to drive to the store and spend $5 on a new tube. He got all pissed off, but he brought it back to me 30 seconds later. I didn't expect him to roll out from under the car and grab it for me that second, but I expected a reasonable amount of action within 24 hours.
We had similar conversations about turning in revised W4 forms to the bookkeeper at his work. It took a month (4 paychecks - 4 reminders) to get him to do it. It was a request that should take less than 2 minutes - take this form, hand it to the person in the office next to yours. I suppose I could have filled one out and faxed it to the bookkeeper myself, but I didn't think that would go over well.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Apr 6, 2011 15:58:18 GMT -5
OK fine, your caulk situation had deeper levels of complexity. Nevertheless, the fact still remains that people will only tolerate a certain number of requests in a day, so make them count.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Apr 6, 2011 16:11:26 GMT -5
OK fine, your caulk situation had deeper levels of complexity. Nevertheless, the fact still remains that people will only tolerate a certain number of requests in a day, so make them count. And try not to make your requests when all h3ll's trying to break loose. DH consistently tries to talk/ask me stuff about 30 seconds after I walk in the back door - with 2 toddlers who are demanding help with getting their winter gear off; their dinner and DD's favorite tv show. And wanting our attention. Give me 10-15 minutes to get them settled first, ok? Please?
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Apr 6, 2011 16:18:56 GMT -5
...:::"DH consistently tries to talk/ask me stuff about 30 seconds after I walk in the back door":::...
Heh, yeah its not fun feeling ambushed... like they were just sitting their storing up their requests and the second they see you, they assume you are available to obey their whims. Sheesh.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Apr 7, 2011 11:09:08 GMT -5
...:::"DH consistently tries to talk/ask me stuff about 30 seconds after I walk in the back door":::... Heh, yeah its not fun feeling ambushed... like they were just sitting their storing up their requests and the second they see you, they assume you are available to obey their whims. Sheesh. lol. Karma for that.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Apr 7, 2011 13:06:54 GMT -5
Thank you.
Our house is a bit of a disaster at the moment, and I'll probably spend most of my weekend cleaning, but DF has been very accommodating on other fronts so I'm willing to do that.
But if every night all I heard was "this place is a disaster" and "woe is me" or "when are you going to get to this", I'd probably reply that I'd get to it when I felt like it because it didn't bother me in the slightest.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Apr 7, 2011 13:50:39 GMT -5
I'll be spending this weekend trying to find the manual for the crib for DS. DH says it's in the office which is kinda an entire room devoted to junk...
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 7, 2011 13:52:14 GMT -5
If you know the brand you might be able to find the manual online.
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greatone54us
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Post by greatone54us on Apr 7, 2011 14:38:54 GMT -5
trytofindbalance
How many more inspection does your husband have left before he complete the 16 mentor inspection?
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greatone54us
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Post by greatone54us on Apr 7, 2011 14:39:10 GMT -5
trytofindbalance
How many more inspection does your husband have left before he complete the 16 mentor inspection?
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Apr 7, 2011 16:07:41 GMT -5
If you know the brand you might be able to find the manual online. I have no clue. I'd have to look at the bottom of the crib. DH actually thinks he knows where in the office the manual is - which brings us back to having your partner find the stuff you need in a timely manner... We need to swap DD's old crib and DS's crib because DS is off the charts in height and in danger of doing the lean over/fall out of the crib thing. He's only 17 months and I want him in a crib still. DD's old crib drops the mattress a good 6 inches lower so we're trading cribs, now that DD is sleeping in her twin bed. We only pulled her crib last weekend but we've known for a while we were going to need to find the manual (or look it up online) but it sort of seemed unreal until after DD was out of her crib. Anyway, I'm babbling now so it's definitely time to stop.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 8, 2011 7:41:07 GMT -5
But when there are ZERO consequences, then there is no incentive for someone to change. Do we reward our children for bad grades, behavior? I sure hope not because that then sends the signal that although I complain, I am not willing to back up my complaints with actions that speak louder than my words. If you are married to a child then they need to be treated like a child and if they don't like being told what to do and when to do it, then they grow up, put on their big girl or boy pants and be an adult. My Mom's husband likes being taken care of but there's a hell of a price to pay for that "privilege," most of all, any self respect he may have once had. He's a joke to everyone he meets. Even she disrespects him but when called on it, says he deserves it. Well, you married him so it was your choice. No one has to be married anymore to someone they don't like or respect but if you choose to be unequally yoked, then you can't complain about it because people then feel free to tell you to do something about it other than complain. Not what these complainers want to hear. My Mom's husband just got his life insurance cancelled because of smoking. She's furious because he lied about it and was caught AGAIN. Told her that she knew he was a liar when she married him so what's the big deal now? If he died even with no insurance, she'd be ahead financially anyway. She didn't like hearing that but it was the truth.
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trytofindbalance
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Post by trytofindbalance on Apr 8, 2011 11:13:41 GMT -5
Greatone54us - DH has completed 6 inspections, he has 10 more to go (5 have been completed in the last 10 days). He may have 2 more this weekend (he is waiting for confirmation from his mentor). It looks like he will also be able to complete some more this week (again he is waiting for dates/times to be confirmed). He also had 2 jobs this week, which was great, because we really needed to get some income coming into the house. I know that he has a good job scheduled for Monday as well. He is trying to work as well as complete the inspections. Obviously it's a bit of a balancing act with his schedule, but it's important that he take on jobs when they are available as they have been few and far between over the last few months. He has really been putting his nose to the grindstone and he seems to have gotten his motivation back. He's also been busy selling items on Craig's List and Ebay, so he's trying to add as much as he can to the bottom line.
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trytofindbalance
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Post by trytofindbalance on Apr 8, 2011 11:36:59 GMT -5
Zib- I can appreciate your position and I understand that you are frustrated with your Mother's choice in a mate; however, I don't feel like you've read most of my posts. Although finances are very important in a marriage, they are not the only issues. My DH is a great guy, he has a lot of great characteristics. He knows and understands that he must earn a living. I didn't marry some poor, lazy slob that refused to earn a living, because I was in some desperate position to get married. Far from it. I fell in love with a wonderful guy and decided to marry him for many, many reasons. His business took a nose dive over the last two years. He netted over $60,000 the first year we were married (more than enough to support our household and have plenty left over to save for the future), which was a feat, considering the economy had really started to tank at that time. He did go back to school when he realized that he needed to do something, to bring income in. He got very frustrated during the process of trying to get his mentored inspections, because none of the mentors would call him back. He is a procrastinator by nature and he doesn't like to feel like he is bothering people, so it snowballed into him losing momentum. I started getting very upset and anxious over the situation and I really was having a difficult time discussing the issues with him, without it turning into an argument. I had reached my boiling point.
I don't believe that my DH is in the same category as your Mother's DH (although I only know about him by what you post). I don't think that my DH is a child nor am I a complainer. I had a real life issue that I was trying to get through and I asked for and received some great advice on this board. I am working on listening and changing my attitude and my DH is moving forward with his plans. It may never be as quick as I would like it, but that doesn't necessarily mean I am right and he is wrong. We are individuals and we do see things differently, which is ok. I don't believe that there are "zero consequences" to my DH not earning a living. He is very well aware that we have substantial monthly bills to pay. I think the idea in any marriage is to work together to find solutions to the problems. My DH isn't some deadbeat that has no respect for me or our marriage. He has a very different outlook on finances then I do, which does cause some disagreements, but ultimately he understands my viewpoint. I don't think that I married the wrong guy and I don't think that divorcing someone I love is the answer. I think all marriages have hurdles to overcome and throwing in the towel the minute you don't like something is ridiculous. I do agree that there are some very good reasons for divorce and if my DH was sitting back and refusing to be a contributing partner an any level, including finances, that would be a different story.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 8, 2011 13:30:16 GMT -5
Absolutely, you are right.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Apr 20, 2011 9:09:28 GMT -5
bumped for EG for the starting a business part.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Apr 20, 2011 11:50:16 GMT -5
...:::"If you are married to a child then they need to be treated like a child and if they don't like being told what to do and when to do it, then they grow up, put on their big girl or boy pants and be an adult.":::...
Grrrrrrr.... this statement sets the progress this thread made right back to the beginning. One of the initial problems is that the woman extrapolated "he is not moving at the pace I would move at" as equal to "he is incapable of doing anything right". So long as she treated him like a child, when in reality she just wanted him to do it her way, she was guaranteed to achieve the opposite of what she wanted.
When she backed the hell off and stopped being chicken little, and focused on his strengths, things got DONE!
A lot of women constantly fail at understanding the difference between "him doing it her way" and "him being able to do it". As a man, I need to remind you that if you make me feel like I am going to be treated like a child no matter what, then I am at LEAST going to have the fun of ACTING like a child.
...:::"Our house is a bit of a disaster at the moment, and I'll probably spend most of my weekend cleaning, but DF has been very accommodating on other fronts so I'm willing to do that. But if every night all I heard was "this place is a disaster" and "woe is me" or "when are you going to get to this", I'd probably reply that I'd get to it when I felt like it because it didn't bother me in the slightest. ":::...
I'm quoting myself here to reiterate a point I made earlier. I don't care about the mess as much as DF does. But she was NICE about asking me to clean beyond what I am willing to, and she was accommodating on requests I had made, so she got her cleaning out of me without having to press for it.
But if she had acted like it was the end of the world if things weren't clean immediately, then I have no reason to help. Its better for me if she does it herself because then she is out of my hair, and at least it will get done "right" (where right means "her way" as opposed to "correctly").
Of course for those of you who clearly enjoy getting nowhere with your spouses, keep nagging, pointing out faults, and expecting them to be you. Let me know how that keeps working.
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