azphx1972
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Post by azphx1972 on Mar 31, 2011 10:31:42 GMT -5
"he has a tendency to wait until the last minute, instead of planning his week out carefully, which results in missed opportunities for work and inspections."
That's unfortunate, but that's just how some people are. I'm that way often times. I find that I have better focus and produce better quality work when I wait until a task deadline is close. Sometimes the task is no longer even necessary by the time the deadline comes around, so I've saved myself a lot of work by waiting. Since you're the planner in the relationship, why don't you find him the work and schedule it for him, so all he has to do is show up?
"DH did plow snow this winter and he has been taking on little jobs (had a property clean up job yesterday). He has not had much substantial work since before he started school (with the exception of a decent remodeling job in November). "
It sounds like he's trying, so you can't be too mad. At least he's doing something.
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qofcc
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Post by qofcc on Mar 31, 2011 10:32:43 GMT -5
So if they still want to plunge ahead with the business (which would not be my advice, but IF they do)
Firebird, I'm with you that it doesn't seem like he has the right personality to be successful as an entrepreneur, but are you really advising that she pull the plug on the business when it's this close to happening? If he screws it up and doesn't get the inspections done in time or if he tries it for a few months and isn't able to make it profitable, then she has an opportunity to pull the plug, but I don't see how she could possibly tell him that she's changing her mind right now before he even gives it a try.
OP - how confident are you that you and your SIL can handle the business management while your DH performs the work?
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 31, 2011 10:33:21 GMT -5
I love my DH and for 90% of things he can go at his own pace and face the consequenecs of dwaddling, but if it were to come to a business and our finances I know my DH well enough to know that just sitting back and letting him handle it isn't going to end well.
This. So much this. The day will come when I'm ready to start my own business, and it's not going to be one single second before I'm ready, financially, to support my family even if it doesn't work out. It's going to be awhile, and that's okay. I'm not going to play roulette with family finances - there are risks I am willing to take and risks I'm not, and those risks do change based on my financial situation and my life situation (i.e., married, kids, dependent parents).
I say this not to preach but just to underscore what DQ is saying. You say your husband has managed a business all this time. But his new one hasn't gotten off the ground yet. Is that because it never will, or is it something you believe, deep down, WILL actually happen sooner or later? That answer is important. Perhaps this is a risk you were willing to take before you had a child to consider - is it still?
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 31, 2011 10:35:51 GMT -5
Firebird, I'm with you that it doesn't seem like he has the right personality to be successful as an entrepreneur, but are you really advising that she pull the plug on the business when it's this close to happening? If he screws it up and doesn't get the inspections done in time or if he tries it for a few months and isn't able to make it profitable, then she has an opportunity to pull the plug, but I don't see how she could possibly tell him that she's changing her mind right now before he even gives it a try.
Fair point. They've come this far and they might as well give it a shot, but there is something to be said for failing fast if she takes off her rose-colored goggles and decides that she doesn't see it happening.
Before, for example, they put another $15k on their credit cards for startup expenses, only to find out that he doesn't have the ability to manage his cash flow well enough to pay them off before interest starts accruing. If they ultimately decide to cut their losses, the sooner they do that the better.
I get what you're saying and it wouldn't be an easy call. But I think if they want to move forward at this time, they need to (at a MINIMUM) talk to someone who has done it successfully so that he can help her DH map out a realistic plan with realistic dates that he can agree to follow to the letter.
Surely there are other careers he can pursue with an inspection license rather than starting his own business.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 31, 2011 10:41:02 GMT -5
I have a friend who's husband owns a successful home inspection business. DH was finally able to get him approved as a mentor. DH had to be very persistent to make this happen and he went out of his comfort zone and it finally happened. I had to keep after him to make it happen. I think their match-up is really going to be great for both of them. DH is competent and thorough when it comes to his work and customers really like him, my friend's hubby is established and has been helping us with good solid business advice. They will be able to recommend each other as well, so I am hoping that this helps DH get established.
Okay, I hadn't read this yet. This is very, very good news and I agree that you need to praise him copiously for this. If he can get out of his "bothering people" roadblock, that will help a lot (it's an important skill for an entrepreneur).
At this point, I would echo axphx12's question - why do you think your husband is procrastinating? Is he afraid to fail? Is he overwhelmed by the initial meetings with his mentor? is he realizing that there's a lot more to this than he thought?
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azphx1972
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Post by azphx1972 on Mar 31, 2011 10:42:13 GMT -5
I have been "defending" my DH, because there are several posters who have accused him of being a terrible guy and it's just not the case. I think people are doing that because your posts make him out to be the root of your problems. While I've only been on this board for a little while, I have rarely seen people attack others without good cause. I generally try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, but some people do rush to conclusions--especially if you do not provide sufficient information about the situation. That's just the nature of anonymous forums; we don't know enough about your circumstances to be able to fully understand all the nuances of your relationship. You just have to be very careful about what you say if you want others to comprehend a situation in the way that you intended and avoid any misunderstandings.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 31, 2011 10:45:09 GMT -5
The issue is that DH has a business that started to fail, we decided he would go back to school to get his home inspection license, we decided that he was going to have to suck it up and work while all of this was going on, in order to keep the house going and put some money aside to start the business. We knew that his income would not be the same and we knew that we would have to make some sacrifices for the time being. We also agreed on a timeframe for these events to happen. I projected our financial situation and we sat down and come up with some realistic goals. Somewhere along the way DH lost his momentum. He wasn't bringing in much income and he wasn't working on the business. It became very frustrating to me. There was money in savings, but there wasn't enough to last forever. DH had missed his deadlines and still nothing was moving forward. I became more and more stressed under the circumstance. Time was flying by, money was flying out of the savings account and we were nowhere fast. DH was not holding up his end of the bargain and I resented it because I was working really hard to keep all the balls in the air. We also got hit was some huge, unexpected bills during this time, so that created more stress. I have been trying to communicate my feelings to DH and I have been trying to motivate him to act NOW before the train runs off the track !!! We aren't there yet, but we will be if he doesn't get his act together soon.
I don't envy you trying to address all these points at once. This is a lot of information to communicate and hear in return.
But this - what you just wrote - this changes the picture a lot.
A lot of posters told you to do exactly this at the beginning of the thread. Work out a plan, make sure DH knows the numbers, agree on a schedule, and so forth. You DID all that, and the plan didn't happen. Now things are falling further and further behind.
So the question I have to ask is, what will be different when you redo the projections of time and money with him this time? Is he going to follow the schedule this time? Why or why not? How long are you willing to wait? How low are you willing to let the savings go?
And I admit, I know nothing about this line of work but it sounds like he can freelance (?) as a home inspector WHILE he's starting the business, building contacts and experience in the meantime. Am I missing something? Is there a reason he's not doing that?
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qofcc
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Post by qofcc on Mar 31, 2011 10:47:18 GMT -5
Surely there are other careers he can pursue with an inspection license rather than starting his own business.
Actually, not so much. I looked into this for my DH before he got his license as a home energy auditor. Most home inspection companies are self employed people doing the work themselves. They sometimes contract out the overflow to other licensed inspectors, but they rarely hire employees. There is also the opportunity to look for work as a building inspector for the town/county government, but they usually want you to have some experience first, it doesn't pay as well as an independent inspector and there are very few of those government jobs around.
It sounds like her DH would be well qualified for a construction management job with a corporation and the pay scale would be in line with the income she expects him to contribute, but it sounds like he wants the self employment lifestyle. If it came down to the business failing, I think that's the direction I'd push him in with the carrot of taking the overflow work from his friend's inspection business to keep his hand in the game and trying again when they build the savings back up, but she really doesn't have much leverage unless he fails.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 31, 2011 10:55:14 GMT -5
projected our financial situation and we sat down and come up with some realistic goals. Somewhere along the way DH lost his momentum. He wasn't bringing in much income and he wasn't working on the business. It became very frustrating to me. There was money in savings, but there wasn't enough to last forever. DH had missed his deadlines and still nothing was moving forward.
I don't say it to be mean but it sounds like your DH has the impression that being self employed is his ticket to easy working.
There is no one to be accountable to but himself and you and in his mind he IS meeting his end of the bargin.
It isn't like when you have a boss that could hand you a pink slip if you dwaddle. You're too close to the situation personally so while a boss might say the same thing, coming from his wife it is "nagging".
He isn't getting how much drive it takes to get a business up off the ground. It takes a lot of self motivation and commitment, something it really doesn't sound like your husband has.
My DH doesn't have it either, which is why I put my foot down on his idea of becoming a landlord. I know I will be the one to have to push and do all the work and I will resent the crap out of him for it.
Until *I* am willing to be a landlord it isn't happening.
I think you might have to decide OP if YOU are ready to take on a home business because your DH doesn't seem to be able to motivate himself towards handling the actual business side of his work (getting set up, organzing appointments etc).
My DH will have fits and bursts of motivation, but then will go months sitting on his butt. That is NOT a viable work ethic for running his own business.
I also agree with qofcc. My DH doesn't admit defeat till the consequences are too big to ignore.
If he is going to fail I'd let him do it NOW before you get even further into investing in the business. The more you invest and the less he steps forth the more problems you will have maritally and finanically.
I am not saying self sabotage him, but now might be a good time to stop pushing and let him sink or swim himself.
Sometimes I have to step back and admit that letting DH sink NOW is a lot better than holding us up longer because the consequnces now vs later are more mangable and we can speed up the process of getting back on track.
You may end up having to be the one to run the show, push your DH and basically be the woman behind the scenes if you want this to be successful. Being the "boss" when you are married doesn't always work out very well. Are you ready and willing to do that?
Again does not mean your Dh is a bad person, but to make his business succeed he may need someone who will light fires under his butt and that gets to be extremely exhausting after awhile.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Mar 31, 2011 10:57:35 GMT -5
OP, Have you honestly asked yourself whether your husband has the drive and motivation necessary to succeed with his own business? Or are you going to have to be the driving force behind him - always? This is the question I'd be asking myself.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 31, 2011 10:57:41 GMT -5
Actually, not so much. I looked into this for my DH before he got his license as a home energy auditor. Most home inspection companies are self employed people doing the work themselves. They sometimes contract out the overflow to other licensed inspectors, but they rarely hire employees. There is also the opportunity to look for work as a building inspector for the town/county government, but they usually want you to have some experience first, it doesn't pay as well as an independent inspector and there are very few of those government jobs around.
Got it. Thanks for clarifying that. As I said, I know nothing of this so I'm pretty much spitballing here.
But that last sentence in your post - that's what I'm worried about. What if he doesn't "fail" per se, but the business just isn't cranking out the money that they need long term? I can understand getting by on, for example, $1,000 per month from him (they could cut expenses to the bone and stop saving) but what if that's still the case in a year? Eventually she will want to build their savings back up and think about other goals, like college for their young charge and retirement.
Sooo... I guess it still comes down to how long she's willing to wait, and what's supposed to change when they do the time / money projections this time.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 31, 2011 11:00:02 GMT -5
If he is going to fail I'd let him do it NOW before you get even further into investing in the business. The more you invest and the less he steps forth the more problems you will have maritally and finanically.
That is my feeling too.
Something else comes to mind as I read the posts of the women who have been there. What if the business works out ONLY because you are pushing your DH every single day to get things done? What if it works because YOU are the driving force behind his business success?
Are you prepared to live that life? Are you prepared to constantly be the one pushing him, or are you expecting him at some point to gain the ability to push himself?
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Mar 31, 2011 11:03:18 GMT -5
Something else comes to mind as I read the posts of the women who have been there. What if the business works out ONLY because you are pushing your DH every single day to get things done? What if it works because YOU are the driving force behind his business success?
Are you prepared to live that life? Are you prepared to constantly be the one pushing him, or are you expecting him at some point to gain the ability to push himself?
That's the point I was trying to make. Firebird asked the question better.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 31, 2011 11:03:29 GMT -5
I see this with my GF. Her hubby plays a lot of tennis and how he cuts costs is moving to a less expensive office rental place, not by working and getting more business.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Mar 31, 2011 11:14:15 GMT -5
...:::"Its okay to be angry about it, but not okay to be angry with him.":::...
I agree with this point, but you need to be very careful how you express that anger. As a man, if you are always mad and grumpy, the cause ceases to matter, if the result is the same.
...:::"It needs to stop being "you vs him" and become "us against the world".":::...
Well sure, but if he isn't contributing financially, it can be very hard to think this way. She seems to feel like she has upheld her end of the bargain, and he hasn't... even if there are valid external dependencies that are preventing him earning money.
...:::"I'm not paying for him to do something, we are investing in our future.":::...
I'd imagine there is the expectation that the schooling result in a better or different career for him though, right? You aren't just paying for him to go to school so he can have personal fulfillment. You would probably be very resentful if after he got the degree, he decided not to use it for the household benefit.
...:::"He is waiting for her to die to inherit.":::...
Shouldn't you be inheriting her stuff?
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rileyoday
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Post by rileyoday on Mar 31, 2011 11:16:54 GMT -5
OP, I hope this new venture works for you. But 8 -16 inspections a week sounds very high.
I bet he gets alot of repair work from it though. Best hope for all of you.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 31, 2011 11:18:38 GMT -5
I'll never see it, I am sure. Her will does state that I am to inherit what she had with my Dad before she re-married. My Dad's will says the same thing but what a will says and what happens can be very different in reality. Things my Grandparents left certain family members "went missing." Her husband has a thieving son and other relatives that are a bit sketchy. I am trying to get my Mom to give me the stuff ahead of time to avoid this very problem.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 31, 2011 11:19:31 GMT -5
No good inspector should be doing 16 inspections per week. Those inspections should take a minimum of 4 hours each.
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qofcc
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Post by qofcc on Mar 31, 2011 11:21:12 GMT -5
It is definitely a personality trait of his that he never wants to feel like he is annoying/bothering someone.
This is a huge red flag. Between that and procrastination, that's the reason why my DH failed in the home energy auditor business. There is a technical side that your DH is good at and mine was too, but there's also a sales side and people with that personality trait do not make good sales people. They need someone else to do the cold calling and that business model can work, lots of independent technicians hire commissioned sales people to promote their business, but they need to be aware of it. My DH stuck his head in the sand and said that people knew what he did and that he was available and he shouldn't have to push and go after business. He had a somewhat successful business before (lawnmower repair), but he was successful despite his poor business skills because he was listed first in the phone book and he didn't need to promote himself much. I could have stepped in and taken over the sales/marketing and business management at that point and tried to find a way to make him successful, but we had already been down that path with another business and I wasn't willing to do that on top of my regular job again.
Your DH may have been successful in construction despite poor business skills because at the height of the housing boom, contractors were in such high demand that it was hard not to be successful at it. Maybe I'm reading your DH wrong, but if not, I hope sharing my experience helps you.
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trytofindbalance
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Post by trytofindbalance on Mar 31, 2011 11:23:03 GMT -5
I just wrote a reply and it ended up somewhere in cyberspace. So I'll repost it.
JUST GOT SOME GOOD NEWS...DH just called me after one of his mentored inspections and it went very, very well.
Firebird..I think the issue is that DH got very distressed with the process of getting his license and he lost all momentum. One of issues he brought up was that that the least favorite aspect of his job is having the customers follow him around the whole time. He actually doesn't realize what a wonderful teacher he is and how much he enjoys helping people out. We have talked about it and he knows that it is part of the job, he will have inspections where people will follow him around. Like any business, we don't enjoy every aspect of it and we just have to suck it up. I think he's going to find that he's going to enjoy that more than he thinks. He knows that this is a good fit for him as he already is an expert in the field and this is a good way to make good money, fairly quickly. I think when things get rolling, he's going to become more and more excited about it.
Last night we talked about making a new goal to have the mentored inspections done by April 15th. He will have completed 4 by this afternoon (5 total- he did one before). We know it can be done, he just needs to commit to getting them done and not getting sidetracked. Like I said in a previous post, I am going to be supportive, but I am not going to try to micromanage his schedule and we'll see what happens.
I do think that he will need help with the "business" and organizational aspects of the business. I think between myself and my SIL we can keep things on track. I also think that DH is very intelligent and capable.
Qofcc and Firebird...I do think this business could be very successful. We have had the job discussion many times. As you are probably aware, it's not a great time to find a constuction management job. Lots of people have lost those very same types of jobs and lots of contractors have lost their personal businesses. I'm not saying it couldn't be done, it's just difficult timing. That is one of the reasons we decided to go for the Home Inspection Business. We thought he could work on the business and do contracting on the side. The contracting has been slow and the business has been slow to start...which has created the stress.
azphx1972 - yes I have been reading these boards for a long time. I know that people don't just attack people; however, I think I have tried to make my posts very clear. DH has a lot of great qualities, he just has been having a difficult time getting his business together and he hasn't had much work. I am very stressed over having to juggle all of the household finances and I don't feel like DH has acted appropriately under the circumstances.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 31, 2011 11:23:04 GMT -5
I should really stop posting for a minute and let the OP catch her breath, but something else occurs to me - I think the only way I would be able to get out of this situation without resenting my partner is if I saw him putting his nose to the grindstone day in and day out, doing everything he could possibly do to salvage the situation and get things moving.
What I mean is that when you start a business, you're nuts not to expect ups and downs. You have to plan for the economy and the seasons going up and down, and you have to be okay with that. So the part of this that's due to the economy, she has no grounds to be angry at her DH for that.
But what she does have the right to resent him for, I think, is not doing everything in his power to move things forward. Every day. Good economy or bad. Being an entrepreneur is just so much bloody WORK. And I think I would start feeling it, whether we were doing well or not, if I didn't see my partner doing that work. Because that is the freaking reality - you can't get complacent.
If you're putting in your best effort, then the results are out of your control. But if you're not putting in your best effort, then you'll never know if the results could have been better. So if it is in fact the case that DH is sticking his head in the sand and not wanting to deal with things, that's probably the biggest single issue in play here.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 31, 2011 11:24:20 GMT -5
JUST GOT SOME GOOD NEWS...DH just called me after one of his mentored inspections and it went very, very well.
That is awesome ;D So he is moving things forward, albeit slowly? Can he maybe gain some momentum now that he has a mentor?
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qofcc
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Post by qofcc on Mar 31, 2011 11:26:59 GMT -5
But 8 -16 inspections a week sounds very high.
16 sounds about right for the busy season - 2-3 per day 4 hours each. 10 sounds high for the slow season, 5-8 seems more usual, but I guess it would depend on how good your real estate contacts were and how many houses were being sold.
I bet he gets alot of repair work from it though. Best hope for all of you.
A licensed home inspector can't inspect a house then offer to do the repair work himself, that's a conflict of interest and against the licensing rules (at least it was when I looked into it a few years ago)
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 31, 2011 11:30:59 GMT -5
Last night we talked about making a new goal to have the mentored inspections done by April 15th. He will have completed 4 by this afternoon (5 total- he did one before). We know it can be done, he just needs to commit to getting them done and not getting sidetracked. Like I said in a previous post, I am going to be supportive, but I am not going to try to micromanage his schedule and we'll see what happens
You need to ask yourself though what happens if he DOESN'T step up to the plate after you stop micromanaging?
The advice is great and all, but our therapist didn't take into account just exactly how much DH can procrastinate. I asked exactly HOW LONG do I back off and see what happens?
Mine was minor but I did the "ask him once and back off" over a towel rack that had broken and was hanging on by a screw.
THREE MONTHS went by before I finally broke down and did it myself.
Is that really an acceptable time frame to have to wait for someone to do something so minor?
Not only does your DH need a deadline but YOU need a deadline for yourself on how long you are going to try letting go and hoping he self motivates.
Cause I've found there are some people that NEVER self motivate. That is fine if you can live with the consequences of it, but in this case there is a lot more at stake than an ugly bathroom.
It's good to have faith in your husband and want things to work out, but you also have to be brutually honest about the situation and your husband.
Start with the goal of April 15th and then reevaluate from there. But do get an idea of exactly how long you are willing to ride it out and see if he can get this going before you start committing any more time (and especially money) past April 15th.
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azphx1972
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Post by azphx1972 on Mar 31, 2011 11:31:43 GMT -5
DH has a lot of great qualities, he just has been having a difficult time getting his business together and he hasn't had much work. This makes it sound like things were beyond his control. I am very stressed over having to juggle all of the household finances and I don't feel like DH has acted appropriately under the circumstances. This makes it sound like it is his fault. The truth is probably a combination of those things, but my point remains that we're getting mixed messages. I know you're in a difficult bind, and I don't know enough about the situation to be able to give specific advice with any degree of certainty, but I do wish you the best luck.
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trytofindbalance
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Post by trytofindbalance on Mar 31, 2011 11:32:53 GMT -5
Zib...the inspection average about 2 hrs (less if it's a condo/townhouse more if it's a large house). The paperwork takes about an hour. Yes during extremely busy times he does do 16 inspections a week (he works very hard), he also has someone that picks up some of his overflow. I have owned 5 homes and had 5 different inspectors do the inspections, they all took around 2 hours.
We figured that DH could do very nicely on about 7 inspections a week. He probably would max out at around 10. 10 seems to be the average that most of these guys do.
qofcc---I do agree with you on the sales aspect. Remember DH has a ton of connections in real estate, so that will help him get clients. He also has an excellent way with people and is extremely likable. He may have to come out of his shell a little bit, but I have confidence that he will. His clients are very loyal to him and does get referrals that way. We also hope to have SIL answering the phones, she will be excellent with clients as well.
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qofcc
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Post by qofcc on Mar 31, 2011 11:36:05 GMT -5
Qofcc and Firebird...I do think this business could be very successful. We have had the job discussion many times. As you are probably aware, it's not a great time to find a construction management job. Lots of people have lost those very same types of jobs and lots of contractors have lost their personal businesses. I'm not saying it couldn't be done, it's just difficult timing. That is one of the reasons we decided to go for the Home Inspection Business. We thought he could work on the business and do contracting on the side. The contracting has been slow and the business has been slow to start...which has created the stress.
I understand exactly what you're doing supporting his business goals and why you're doing it and I would have done the same thing given the same situation. I also totally understand why you're frustrated and worried but not ready to call it quits and I think you're doing the right thing. And while I think everyone is right that he doesn't have the traditional entrepreneurial traits, that doesn't mean he can't succeed at this, but he's going to need someone else to make sure he stays on track.
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zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,866
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 31, 2011 11:37:46 GMT -5
Wow!!! That is one very short inspection. I can understand if the dumb buyer doesn't tag along (we actually have a thread on that where someone got taken on their "new to them" house) that an inspector can cut corners but how does an inspector get on the roof, in the attic, check for water, plumbing, and all the other stuff in 2 hours? No way and do a creditable job.
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Firebird
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 12:55:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,448
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Post by Firebird on Mar 31, 2011 11:37:52 GMT -5
And while I think everyone is right that he doesn't have the traditional entrepreneurial traits, that doesn't mean he can't succeed at this, but he's going to need someone else to make sure he stays on track.
Are you willing to be that person? Full time and indefinitely?
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zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,866
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 31, 2011 11:38:59 GMT -5
DF's inspection took 4+ hours and the inspector was not happy that DF was there and that he had to go in attic and go on roof. Plus, their liability is the amount of their inspection fee. That's a nice perk, huh?
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