sesfw
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DACA
Sept 1, 2017 10:47:08 GMT -5
Post by sesfw on Sept 1, 2017 10:47:08 GMT -5
I know these kids came into this country illegally with their parents and now want 'citizen rights and benefits'.
My question is ...... the parents have been in this country for years 'undocumented' if you want to be PC. In the ensuing years why have they NOT done anything about their legal status? Are these kids willing to send their illegal parents back to country of origin so they can stay in this country?
These kids had no choice coming here, the parents have had choices for years and not done anything about it.
Parents, go back home. You made your choices, these are your consequences.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Sept 1, 2017 11:07:57 GMT -5
... My question is ...... ... In the ensuing years why have they NOT done anything about their legal status? Are these kids willing to send their illegal parents back to country of origin so they can stay in this country? ... Potential answers: There was likely not a pathway to become legal. Children tend to be loyal to parents so only the most Machiavellian would be willing to toss their parents back over the border for their personal benefit.
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happyhoix
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DACA
Sept 1, 2017 11:11:50 GMT -5
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 1, 2017 11:11:50 GMT -5
You can't 'work on' becoming a citizen while you are in this country illegally.
If you announce to ICE that you are illegal and would like to apply for citizenship since you've been here ten years already, they will kick you out of the country and invite you to apply for a green card like everyone else who wants to immigrate here.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Sept 1, 2017 11:16:08 GMT -5
I would be good with a five year look back. If they have been here over five years, give the parents the green card with permanent status being allowed. That is assuming no MAJOR laws were broken, etc.....outside of being here illegally. Speeding tickets broken tail lights, etc, not an influence on the decision.
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mollyanna58
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Post by mollyanna58 on Sept 1, 2017 12:24:38 GMT -5
I would be good with a five year look back. If they have been here over five years, give the parents the green card with permanent status being allowed. That is assuming no MAJOR laws were broken, etc..... outside of being here illegally. Speeding tickets broken tail lights, etc, not an influence on the decision. I can't see rewarding illegal actions. The parents come here knowing they are in the country illegally. I feel sympathy for the children, but the only ones they can blame are their parents.
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Value Buy
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DACA
Sept 1, 2017 12:30:55 GMT -5
Post by Value Buy on Sept 1, 2017 12:30:55 GMT -5
I would be good with a five year look back. If they have been here over five years, give the parents the green card with permanent status being allowed. That is assuming no MAJOR laws were broken, etc..... outside of being here illegally. Speeding tickets broken tail lights, etc, not an influence on the decision. I can't see rewarding illegal actions. The parents come here knowing they are in the country illegally. I feel sympathy for the children, but the only ones they can blame are their parents. Like it or not, if the kids have been here for five years, and are 10 or 11 years old, they are Americans in their hearts. I have no desire to deport people who in their heart are Americans. Mexico is simply a foreign country they migrated from to them. I cannot in all honesty tell them since we have had five or six Presidents in a row who never enforced immigration laws, they must go.
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mollyanna58
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Post by mollyanna58 on Sept 1, 2017 12:35:52 GMT -5
So everyone who evades ICE for a certain length of time gets a free pass to stay?
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Sept 1, 2017 12:46:55 GMT -5
The "kids" you all are talking about were brought here as children... many of them are adults (they've been here over 20 years). I just wanted to say that because I can't imagine deporting someone who is a contributing member of our society (ie they may be educated, they may have a job, they may have a BUSINESS, they may have children of their own) back to someplace where they might have NOTHING.
I think the 800,000 (or so I've read) "kids" who have been here for most of their lives deserved to have the equivalent of a "kick to the kidneys" and told to leave.
I can't believe the Republicans DON"T see this as an opportunity at 800,000 VOTES (going forward and maybe generational). I can't believe the Republicans DON"T want their tax money. I think the Republicans can risk annoying their "loyalist" of supporters by coming up with some 'path to citizenship' for the Dreamers.
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Value Buy
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DACA
Sept 1, 2017 12:51:33 GMT -5
Post by Value Buy on Sept 1, 2017 12:51:33 GMT -5
So everyone who evades ICE for a certain length of time gets a free pass to stay? I am not saying that. I say the kids, if they have been here five years get to stay. Since I would not want to put them all in foster care making the government paying their costs for 15 years, let the parents raise them. I assigned a five year time frame assuming that would be long enough time for the kids to feel more like an American than from Central American country. If they have been here less than five years, chances are good they can relocate without feeling like a foreigner. I am not against asking Daca college graduates be encouraged to return to Mexico, Central America, etc, for a five year tour trying to improve the home country's infrastructure and learning systems. Sort of a new Peace corp type of operation.
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Tiny
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DACA
Sept 1, 2017 12:51:38 GMT -5
Post by Tiny on Sept 1, 2017 12:51:38 GMT -5
So everyone who evades ICE for a certain length of time gets a free pass to stay? Everyone? no. But, if you can prove that you were brought here as a child and you've been here some number of years - there should be a way for YOU (or that child) to achieve citizenship.
Of course, this kicks the can further down the road - because ONCE the kid (who will probably be an adult or atleast adult-ish) get's their citizenship once they are an ADULT - they can sponser their family members (who aren't citizens) so they too can become citizens.
(That's one of the reason "illegal" immigrants (and their kids) don't apply for citizenship - there's NO path for them to follow - they most likely do not have family who are citizens who can sponsor them.
My vote for what to do - is give them a clear path to citizenship. Just think of it as an opportunity for Republicans to turn 800,000 potential Democrats INTO Republicans. The Republicans need the votes - they NEED to be able to out vote the Big City Democrats and those awful moderate Republicans. I assume Republicans don't care what color their voters are? Right?
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Sept 1, 2017 12:53:58 GMT -5
The "kids" you all are talking about were brought here as children... many of them are adults (they've been here over 20 years). I just wanted to say that because I can't imagine deporting someone who is a contributing member of our society (ie they may be educated, they may have a job, they may have a BUSINESS, they may have children of their own) back to someplace where they might have NOTHING.
I think the 800,000 (or so I've read) "kids" who have been here for most of their lives deserved to have the equivalent of a "kick to the kidneys" and told to leave.
I can't believe the Republicans DON"T see this as an opportunity at 800,000 VOTES (going forward and maybe generational). I can't believe the Republicans DON"T want their tax money. I think the Republicans can risk annoying their "loyalist" of supporters by coming up with some 'path to citizenship' for the Dreamers.
I would prefer neither party made it a decision based on getting political votes from a voting group. The decision should be strictly on what is best for U.S. citizens and secondly for the Daca students.
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Tiny
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DACA
Sept 1, 2017 13:02:03 GMT -5
Post by Tiny on Sept 1, 2017 13:02:03 GMT -5
The "kids" you all are talking about were brought here as children... many of them are adults (they've been here over 20 years). I just wanted to say that because I can't imagine deporting someone who is a contributing member of our society (ie they may be educated, they may have a job, they may have a BUSINESS, they may have children of their own) back to someplace where they might have NOTHING.
I think the 800,000 (or so I've read) "kids" who have been here for most of their lives deserved to have the equivalent of a "kick to the kidneys" and told to leave.
I can't believe the Republicans DON"T see this as an opportunity at 800,000 VOTES (going forward and maybe generational). I can't believe the Republicans DON"T want their tax money. I think the Republicans can risk annoying their "loyalist" of supporters by coming up with some 'path to citizenship' for the Dreamers.
I would prefer neither party made it a decision based on getting political votes from a voting group. The decision should be strictly on what is best for U.S. citizens and secondly for the Daca students. I totally agree you. I think it would be best for everyone involved to give everyone covered by the DACA an achievable and timely path to citizenship. Do it and be done with it.
I was just trying to go the amoral route - the right thing to do would be what best for the ruling party...
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Sept 1, 2017 13:14:49 GMT -5
Because it costs a lot of money and they are too busy working for extremely low wages. Also, it is risky to start the process because you basically have to announce to authorities that you are illegal. Also, there are a lot of shysters who tell people they can help and just take their money. So, although they may have tried, a lack of understanding of the process coupled with trusting the wrong person to educate you can drain the few resources they have.
I have a friend who was brought here illegally as a baby. When she turned 18, she was accepted to UCLA and one of the programs became available - Maybe dreamers? Her parents spent 15k to help her become legal and risked getting deported with her 4 siblings. 15k is a fuck ton of money to the average honest hard working undocumented worker.
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emma1420
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DACA
Sept 1, 2017 14:32:56 GMT -5
Post by emma1420 on Sept 1, 2017 14:32:56 GMT -5
I would prefer neither party made it a decision based on getting political votes from a voting group. The decision should be strictly on what is best for U.S. citizens and secondly for the Daca students. I totally agree you. I think it would be best for everyone involved to give everyone covered by the DACA an achievable and timely path to citizenship. Do it and be done with it.
I was just trying to go the amoral route - the right thing to do would be what best for the ruling party...
My thing with DACA is, if Trump opts to close the program, the people already enrolled should have that program honored. Granted, I'd like to see DACA continue via legislation, because those kid's didn't have a choice to come to the US and if deported they would be going back to a country where too often they don't know anyone and they don't even speak the language. I don't think that is right. What I think is even more wrong is for the government to tell 800,000 undocumented young people that they can get legal status by signing up for a program the government creates and then end that program and then have them lose their legal status.
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garion2003
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Post by garion2003 on Sept 1, 2017 15:04:26 GMT -5
I worked at a college and have talked with some DACA kids. They were literally brought here as children, sometimes as infants. They had no choice about that, any more than any of us did as a child. Most of the ones I talked with had no idea they were undocumented until it came time to fill out the FAFSA. They grew up in a city, went to high school, and just figured they were citizens like anyone else. Their 'home country' is no more "home" to them then wherever your/our ancestors came from.
Imagine graduating high school with your classmates/friends (maybe you've been together since third grade) and then as people start the college search your parents have "the talk" with you and you find out you won't get any financial aid because - surprise! - you aren't really a citizen after all.
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steff
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DACA
Sept 1, 2017 15:34:54 GMT -5
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Post by steff on Sept 1, 2017 15:34:54 GMT -5
It cost my brother & sis in law between $8-9,000 to get her citizenship. She was brought here by her parents when she was an infant.
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sesfw
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DACA
Sept 1, 2017 17:07:27 GMT -5
Post by sesfw on Sept 1, 2017 17:07:27 GMT -5
I'm not talking about the kids being sent 'home', I'm talking about their parents. How many of the kids would be willing to sent their parents home so the kids can stay in the US. How many parents would be willing to leave so their kids could stay.
The parents made the choices, now they need to face the consequences.
I know several people that have come as children and met with an immigration attorney to get legal status. I don't know all the details, but I do know it can happen.
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Tiny
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DACA
Sept 1, 2017 18:57:12 GMT -5
Post by Tiny on Sept 1, 2017 18:57:12 GMT -5
I'm not talking about the kids being sent 'home', I'm talking about their parents. How many of the kids would be willing to sent their parents home so the kids can stay in the US. How many parents would be willing to leave so their kids could stay. The parents made the choices, now they need to face the consequences. I know several people that have come as children and met with an immigration attorney to get legal status. I don't know all the details, but I do know it can happen. Unfortunately, if the 'kids' already signed up for DACA - then it's pretty obvious their parents aren't legal immigrants... That's the whole thing with the 'families being torn apart' when ICE comes to the door - mom and dad aren't here legally - but their 'kids' might be protected under DACA (cause they filled out the paper work). This isn't all that difficult. Give the Dreamers a doable and reasonable amount of time path to citizenship. Give their parents a "pass" to stay in the countryf. Once the 'kids' are citizens - they can then figure out the best route for their parents - let the parents keep renewing their 'pass' or jump thru the hoops to citizenship. It's not like the people covered by DACA snuck across the boarder a couple of months ago and now expect American citizenship...
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Sept 1, 2017 19:02:04 GMT -5
Not in this thread but in Real Life - I keep getting the feeling that people opposed to immigration feel like something wonderful is being taken from them... like someone is stealing the bread from their hands, the roof from over their head, the safety of their children.
Well, I would think that MAKING the immigrants CITIZENS would "take less stuff" from ordinary folk than having a large pool of "not quite" people who CAN"T participate in society. I'd bring 'em on board and make 'em pull their weight - not be a weight.
Just saying.
(I here there's a shortage of "framers" and carpenters and such - since not so many people with those skills are coming over the boarder.... and yet...I haven't heard or seen ANYONE suggesting a plan to get AMERICANS trained to fulfill those jobs. Why is that? )
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Sept 1, 2017 19:11:17 GMT -5
I think the Trades are pretty much hiring anyone willing to work. I was reading an article yesterday about how hard it is to find good candidates who can pass a drug test. It was at least 10% fail, also it said it was all ages, even people in their 40's and 50's.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Sept 1, 2017 19:19:44 GMT -5
I want to see a path to citizenship for The DACA group. I know of a few situations I would like to see result in a path to citizenship.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Sept 1, 2017 19:24:27 GMT -5
The "kids" you all are talking about were brought here as children... many of them are adults (they've been here over 20 years). I just wanted to say that because I can't imagine deporting someone who is a contributing member of our society (ie they may be educated, they may have a job, they may have a BUSINESS, they may have children of their own) back to someplace where they might have NOTHING.
I wish I could this and not just it. I know a number of people that I grew up with, that had no idea they were here illegally. they are upstanding members of society, and yes, some are small business owners. a few have served in the military and have earned a path to citizenship, but the others are still in limbo. I personally can't imagine finding out I have been here illegally my entire life, and that due to my parents' decisions, I might get sent somewhere that I might not even speak the language.
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chiver78
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DACA
Sept 1, 2017 19:26:39 GMT -5
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Post by chiver78 on Sept 1, 2017 19:26:39 GMT -5
I totally agree you. I think it would be best for everyone involved to give everyone covered by the DACA an achievable and timely path to citizenship. Do it and be done with it.
I was just trying to go the amoral route - the right thing to do would be what best for the ruling party...
My thing with DACA is, if Trump opts to close the program, the people already enrolled should have that program honored. Granted, I'd like to see DACA continue via legislation, because those kid's didn't have a choice to come to the US and if deported they would be going back to a country where too often they don't know anyone and they don't even speak the language. I don't think that is right. What I think is even more wrong is for the government to tell 800,000 undocumented young people that they can get legal status by signing up for a program the government creates and then end that program and then have them lose their legal status. I am terrified for those that enrolled during the prior administration.
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chiver78
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DACA
Sept 1, 2017 19:28:21 GMT -5
Post by chiver78 on Sept 1, 2017 19:28:21 GMT -5
I'm not talking about the kids being sent 'home', I'm talking about their parents. How many of the kids would be willing to sent their parents home so the kids can stay in the US. How many parents would be willing to leave so their kids could stay. The parents made the choices, now they need to face the consequences. I know several people that have come as children and met with an immigration attorney to get legal status. I don't know all the details, but I do know it can happen. I guess I would ask what your plan is for the kids whose parents DON'T choose to leave so their kids can stay? do they get booted? how do you punish someone who was raised to believe they were as American as you or me, for the decisions made by others?
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Sept 1, 2017 19:29:20 GMT -5
Not in this thread but in Real Life - I keep getting the feeling that people opposed to immigration feel like something wonderful is being taken from them... like someone is stealing the bread from their hands, the roof from over their head, the safety of their children. Well, I would think that MAKING the immigrants CITIZENS would "take less stuff" from ordinary folk than having a large pool of "not quite" people who CAN"T participate in society. I'd bring 'em on board and make 'em pull their weight - not be a weight. Just saying. (I here there's a shortage of "framers" and carpenters and such - since not so many people with those skills are coming over the boarder.... and yet...I haven't heard or seen ANYONE suggesting a plan to get AMERICANS trained to fulfill those jobs. Why is that? ) you forgot the word "illegal" in a number of places. just saying.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Sept 2, 2017 9:44:27 GMT -5
Not in this thread but in Real Life - I keep getting the feeling that people opposed to immigration feel like something wonderful is being taken from them... like someone is stealing the bread from their hands, the roof from over their head, the safety of their children. The jobs are being automated and/or exported way, way, way more than they are being taken by illegal immigrants. The anger and energy being put on it chanting "build the wall" would be better spent getting an education that would get them the jobs of today and the jobs of the future.
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jkapp
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DACA
Sept 2, 2017 10:10:42 GMT -5
Post by jkapp on Sept 2, 2017 10:10:42 GMT -5
I would be good with a five year look back. If they have been here over five years, give the parents the green card with permanent status being allowed. That is assuming no MAJOR laws were broken, etc.....outside of being here illegally. Speeding tickets broken tail lights, etc, not an influence on the decision. What about identity theft? Fraud? Operating a vehicle without a proper license? Operating said vehicle without insurance? Drunk driving? And the countless other laws that legal citizens are expected to obey that some now want to waive for non-citizens...
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jkapp
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DACA
Sept 2, 2017 10:14:42 GMT -5
Post by jkapp on Sept 2, 2017 10:14:42 GMT -5
The "kids" you all are talking about were brought here as children... many of them are adults (they've been here over 20 years). I just wanted to say that because I can't imagine deporting someone who is a contributing member of our society (ie they may be educated, they may have a job, they may have a BUSINESS, they may have children of their own) back to someplace where they might have NOTHING.
I think the 800,000 (or so I've read) "kids" who have been here for most of their lives deserved to have the equivalent of a "kick to the kidneys" and told to leave.
I can't believe the Republicans DON"T see this as an opportunity at 800,000 VOTES (going forward and maybe generational). I can't believe the Republicans DON"T want their tax money. I think the Republicans can risk annoying their "loyalist" of supporters by coming up with some 'path to citizenship' for the Dreamers.
Unfortunately there are no hard numbers to be used here. How many of these 800k are taking jobs vs how many are providing jobs to others? How much in taxes do these 800k pay vs how many are refunded back more than they pay in taxes each year? And to think that Reps would get 800k votes for allowing DACA through is rather naive...which is maybe why they don't mind getting rid of it?
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Sept 2, 2017 10:17:39 GMT -5
I totally agree you. I think it would be best for everyone involved to give everyone covered by the DACA an achievable and timely path to citizenship. Do it and be done with it.
I was just trying to go the amoral route - the right thing to do would be what best for the ruling party...
My thing with DACA is, if Trump opts to close the program, the people already enrolled should have that program honored. Granted, I'd like to see DACA continue via legislation, because those kid's didn't have a choice to come to the US and if deported they would be going back to a country where too often they don't know anyone and they don't even speak the language. I don't think that is right. What I think is even more wrong is for the government to tell 800,000 undocumented young people that they can get legal status by signing up for a program the government creates and then end that program and then have them lose their legal status. The problem is that if DACA is continued, what is to stop the continuing migration of additional illegal immigrants flooding into the country? The same people in favor of DACA are also NOT in favor of border control - so it just perpetuates the same cycle over and over.
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Sept 2, 2017 10:19:59 GMT -5
I'm not talking about the kids being sent 'home', I'm talking about their parents. How many of the kids would be willing to sent their parents home so the kids can stay in the US. How many parents would be willing to leave so their kids could stay. The parents made the choices, now they need to face the consequences. I know several people that have come as children and met with an immigration attorney to get legal status. I don't know all the details, but I do know it can happen. Unfortunately, if the 'kids' already signed up for DACA - then it's pretty obvious their parents aren't legal immigrants... That's the whole thing with the 'families being torn apart' when ICE comes to the door - mom and dad aren't here legally - but their 'kids' might be protected under DACA (cause they filled out the paper work). This isn't all that difficult. Give the Dreamers a doable and reasonable amount of time path to citizenship. Give their parents a "pass" to stay in the countryf. Once the 'kids' are citizens - they can then figure out the best route for their parents - let the parents keep renewing their 'pass' or jump thru the hoops to citizenship. It's not like the people covered by DACA snuck across the boarder a couple of months ago and now expect American citizenship... Okay...so can I get a "pass" on speeding tickets? Or a "pass" on driving without a license? Or a "pass" on not paying my taxes? If non-citizens get immunity from our laws, then why not regular citizens as well?
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