happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 7, 2017 9:26:54 GMT -5
If, and I know this is a big, big, if... but if congress passes some form of the Dreamers Act giving a path to citizenship for DACA participants, will Trump get the credit? Let us see how it all plays out, but I would have no problem with him getting credit for pushing them to act. I don't know if he'll GET credit for it, but it things work out, we all know he will CLAIM credit for it.
In fairness, that's what all politicians do - deny the disasters and seize credit for the successes. Trump is just a little more self congratulatory than the standard issue politician.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Sept 7, 2017 10:05:02 GMT -5
They are worried because to apply for the DACA program you had to give them your name and address. You basically outed yourself to the government as an illegal alien in the hopes of assistance in getting citizenship.
Many of the 'dreamers' didn't sign up for the DACA program because they didn't trust the government enough to give them their names and addresses. They were afraid, at some point, someone in the government would print out that list of addresses, get a big bus and start rounding them up. Like Trump said, better pack your bags!
Turns out, those who didn't sign up for the DACA program were right to be skeptical. They can continue to try to live under the radar and cross their fingers that sometime in their lifetime Congress will pass some kind of immigration reform.
Correct me if I am wrong, but they were not hoping to gain citizenship, but the right to work legally in the US. I don't think DACA promised citizenship - it is an end goal, but I don't think any promises were made in that regard. They were promised that the information they gave in their application would not be used to deport them though. yes, that is exactly what it was.
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Virgil Showlion
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DACA
Sept 7, 2017 11:41:26 GMT -5
Post by Virgil Showlion on Sept 7, 2017 11:41:26 GMT -5
What Mr. Sessions "once said", quoted in the article, doesn't bear the scantest resemblance to the headline. Fake news. (Although Slate is admittedly more a blog than a news outlet.) Here's another take: Jeff Sessions's Unqualified Praise for a 1924 Immigration LawTrump’s pick for attorney general made the remarks during an interview with Breitbart’s Stephen Bannon, now an adviser to the president-elect. Senator Jeff Sessions, Donald Trump’s nominee to run the Justice Department, once praised a 1924 immigration law whose chief author in the House once declared was intended to end “indiscriminate acceptance of all races.” Sessions has long been a proponent of immigration restriction, and was one of the first to back Trump’s call on a ban on Muslims entering the United States during the primary. During an October 2015 radio interview with Stephen Bannon of Breitbart, now a top adviser to the president-elect, Sessions praised the 1924 law saying that: In seven years we'll have the highest percentage of Americans, non-native born, since the founding of the Republic. Some people think we've always had these numbers, and it's not so, it's very unusual, it's a radical change. When the numbers reached about this high in 1924, the president and congress changed the policy, and it slowed down immigration significantly, we then assimilated through the 1965 and created really the solid middle class of America, with assimilated immigrants, and it was good for America. We passed a law that went far beyond what anybody realized in 1965, and we're on a path to surge far past what the situation was in 1924.Sessions comments were first flagged by the liberal blog Right Wing Watch. The 1924 immigration law, known as the Johnson-Reed Act, drastically limited immigration and made permanent restrictions designed to keep out Southern and Eastern Europeans, particularly Italians and Jews, Africans, and Middle Easterners, barring Asian immigration entirely. Complete article here: Jeff Sessions's Unqualified Praise for a 1924 Immigration LawThe headline is fair in this case. Although he's clearly praising the bill's effect of promoting assimilation and cementing a middle class, which are indeed praiseworthy.
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Sept 7, 2017 17:48:56 GMT -5
That's why he was elected!!!!!!!! The president of this country is elected to serve the citizenry of the country as a whole, not to serve only those of his own political party. Then you should agree that DACA should be ended because of how Obama created it, right? Because he wasn't creating it to serve the citizens of the country as a whole, it was to pander to the illegals and their supporters...
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Sept 7, 2017 17:51:47 GMT -5
The problem is that if DACA is continued, what is to stop the continuing migration of additional illegal immigrants flooding into the country? The same people in favor of DACA are also NOT in favor of border control - so it just perpetuates the same cycle over and over. You might want to check the stats. Illegal immigration peaked in 2000 but started to decline during the 2008 recession and has been declining ever since. They're not 'flooding' into the country anymore.
www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/apr/25/donald-Trump/illegal-immigration-lowest-17-years-Trump-said/
So you're saying the border patrol is twiddling their thumbs these days? You also might want to check your facts...like the fact that central/south american families were sending their children en masse to the U.S. after DACA was created, causing a huge problem. Do certain people not remember the issue with creating temporary holding centers for all the children/families who were illegally migrating?? And that was long after 2008...
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Poptart
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Post by Poptart on Sept 7, 2017 18:29:51 GMT -5
So you're saying the border patrol is twiddling their thumbs these days? You also might want to check your facts...like the fact that central/south american families were sending their children en masse to the U.S. after DACA was created, causing a huge problem. Do certain people not remember the issue with creating temporary holding centers for all the children/families who were illegally migrating?? And that was long after 2008... You should check your facts. In order to get DACA you had to prove that you had been in the US BEFORE a certain date and you had to back that up through school and medical records. People from Central America were sending their children here because it's a better option than allowing your child to go hungry or be killed.
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Poptart
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Post by Poptart on Sept 7, 2017 18:43:52 GMT -5
Illegal immigrants know they are breaking the law. They know they are breaking the law on a daily basis. I've never understood the thinking that rewarding them will suddenly turn them into ideal citizens. What would you have them do? Go back to a country that they don't know and where they have no support system? They are not asking to be "rewarded"- they are asking to be allowed to come out from under the shadows and contribute their talents to the US. In order to qualify for DACA these kids had to show that they were educated or had served in the military. They also had to pass background checks, 91% of them hold jobs and pay into social security without having the security of being able to get unemployment benefits. So what risk do these young people pose to the US? They are working and paying taxes, that's a lot more than what you can say about Trump, who thinks paying his fair share is stupid., yet can't get any federal benefits, they are not criminals, we know this because they passed background checks. The US government got 800 million in application fees from them, many have bought homes and other property which helps us have a stronger economy, so why send them back into the shadows? The only reason he ended this program was to throw a bone to his racist base. That's it.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Sept 7, 2017 19:31:51 GMT -5
Congress is useless when it comes to immigration reform. The members are more worried about their image than passing legislation that will alleviate the problem, thus they pass the problem along to the next set of lazy legislators. Well...kinda. It isn't so much they are worried about their image or that they are lazy, it is that they are worried about their jobs. The people that vote for them all want different things. To figure out the parameters of what will be accepted in enough districts to pass something, and to do the work to convince detractors that it will be okay is a tough thing. If you can find the Frontline on the committee that was working on immigration reform, and the process they were going through and why it came to a screeching halt - I highly suggest watching it. I found it eye opening on just how hard they were working to get there.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Sept 7, 2017 21:18:53 GMT -5
91% of them hold jobs and pay into social security
Whose SS# are they using?
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Sept 7, 2017 22:26:56 GMT -5
from what I have seen, the ones they think are their own.
I personally didn't see my own SS card until I signed it in high school when I got my first job. how would I have known if my parents bought a fake card or actually applied for a valid number?
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Sept 7, 2017 23:02:33 GMT -5
91% of them hold jobs and pay into social securityWhose SS# are they using? Daca participants have the right to work under their own SS#. I suspect you know that, and are trying to confuse/influence others to support your Hate Filled/Backward/Biased Beliefs. Hopefully it won't work and all the attention focused on this issue will help achieve permanent protected status for this group.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Sept 8, 2017 6:41:08 GMT -5
91% of them hold jobs and pay into social securityWhose SS# are they using? And for the record, even those who are not on a DACA aren't using false social security numbers. They are using an ITIN. You can send in a translated copy of your birth certificate and a form with a fee and be assigned an Individual Tax Identification Number by the IRS. See, the IRS doesn't care if you're legal or not, they just care that you pay your taxes. So even the "undocumented" aren't so undocumented. They are using their government assigned ITIN. To pay taxes and social security that they'll never get, buy cars and homes and put money into our economy. So who are they hurting? They're actually helping. So stop with the false SSN crap because that's not how it works at all.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Sept 8, 2017 7:08:21 GMT -5
The US government got 800 million in application fees from them, many have bought homes and other property which helps us have a stronger economy, so why send them back into the shadows? On public radio last night, they said about 15% of DECA folks were home owners. They also said there were about 8K DECA folks in our state and have/will be responsible for about a half billion of economic activity in our state. Like it or not, we're still a consumer economy, and we need people that will consume, especially after the boomers die. At this point I'm not trusting that all our future trade policies with foreign countries are going to be enough to keep our economy afloat. And neither are the haves.
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happyhoix
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Sept 8, 2017 7:36:33 GMT -5
Post by happyhoix on Sept 8, 2017 7:36:33 GMT -5
So you're saying the border patrol is twiddling their thumbs these days? You also might want to check your facts...like the fact that central/south american families were sending their children en masse to the U.S. after DACA was created, causing a huge problem. Do certain people not remember the issue with creating temporary holding centers for all the children/families who were illegally migrating?? And that was long after 2008... I never said they were twiddling their thumbs. Of course there are still illegal immigrants attempting to cross the border - but I object to the term 'flooding across the border' when, in fact, illegal immigration numbers have been declining for years.
Anti-immigration folks like to use the term 'flooding' because it brings to mind images of terrifying zombie hordes of immigrants ravenously pushing their way across the Mexican border eager to take our jobs, rape and murder, etc etc - it's a fear tactic that politicians like Trump like to use to garner votes. It's inaccurate fear mongering, and it encourages people to believe something like Trump's Wall will effectively keep the hordes out - which is just stupid.
The whole thing with the sudden influx of kids was a sad attempt by parents who fell for a rumor that the US would allow child immigrants (it doesn't) - just imagine how horrible conditions in some countries must be if parents think the best thing they can do to protect their kids from the drug gangs is to try to get them over the US border. This was just a temporary event, however - immigration statistics show the 'flood' is significantly less flood-like since 2008.
If we were really serious about stemming illegal immigration we would aggressively go after the people who hire illegal immigrants, and that ain't happening because too many industries rely on their cheap labor. Industries with effective lobbying arms. But it's more fun to blame the immigrants themselves, I guess, than the businesses who want to hire people who will work for change and tolerate living in shitty conditions.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Sept 8, 2017 8:56:37 GMT -5
Does anyone else find it amusing that a country founded by immigrants has now made a complete 180?
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billisonboard
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DACA
Sept 8, 2017 9:08:19 GMT -5
Post by billisonboard on Sept 8, 2017 9:08:19 GMT -5
Does anyone else find it amusing that a country founded by immigrants has now made a complete 180? Our history is full of examples of waves of immigrants attempting to keep the next wave from reaching shore.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Sept 8, 2017 9:16:58 GMT -5
Does anyone else find it amusing that a country founded by immigrants has now made a complete 180? I find it ironic. It would be amusing if it didn't hurt so many promising young oeople.
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happyhoix
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Sept 8, 2017 11:20:38 GMT -5
Post by happyhoix on Sept 8, 2017 11:20:38 GMT -5
Does anyone else find it amusing that a country founded by immigrants has now made a complete 180? I find it annoying. My MIL and SIL are from the 'this is a white and Christian country so we should only let white Christians immigrate' philosophy.
DH had a genealogy test done last year, and found he is part African, part Jewish, and part Iberian Peninsula.
I'm waiting for SIL and MIL to self deport, but it appears that's not happening.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Sept 8, 2017 11:22:24 GMT -5
Daca participants have the right to work under their own SS#. I suspect you know that, and are trying to confuse/influence others to support your Hate Filled/Backward/Biased Beliefs.
Bean ........ in this area SS# are purchased at the local 'taco stand' .........
No, I am not hate filled, or backward, or biased. I believe people should be held responsible for their actions. The parents of these dreamers are the ones that should go back home and come back LEGALLY if they wish.
I have had to work too hard all of my life to see my tax funds being spent in frivolous ways.
PS: I'm also against people bailing on their student loans. You received them, you pay them back.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Sept 8, 2017 11:38:58 GMT -5
If these people have been in the US for over 5 years (coming here before the age of 18), have no criminal record other than traffic offenses and are either employed full time or in school full time, why can't that be their path to citizenship? The main complaint seems to be that attaining citizenship is time consuming and expensive. So set parameters for these individuals and grant them citizenship if they meet them. I'm about as hard-line as they come when it comes to illegal immigration, but I would have no problems extending citizenship to persons who were brought here with no choice. As someone else has said, some of these people don't even know they aren't citizens. ETA: This should not extend to people who knowingly immigrate illegally.
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spartyparty
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Post by spartyparty on Sept 8, 2017 11:50:31 GMT -5
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Sept 8, 2017 11:59:08 GMT -5
Just because a member of my family - 100 years ago - robbed a bank doesn't mean I have to condone bank robberies. In addition, said ancestor, who the writer puts up as a shining example of the wonders of illegal immigration was found not-guilty in a court of law of doing anything other than abiding by the law, if I read the article correctly. It doesn't appear he was an illegal immigrant, according to the law. So...article = silly.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 8, 2017 12:04:32 GMT -5
Does anyone else find it amusing that a country founded by immigrants has now made a complete 180? Our history is full of examples of waves of immigrants attempting to keep the next wave from reaching shore. I forgot what book I was reading but it talked about immigration and how once this became "your" Country you'd do a complete 180 on the next batch of immigrants. Happened when the Irish arrived they were no good lazy drunkards who would make this country a papal state.. When the Irish adjusted to being Americans they joined the backlash against the next wave which were the Italians. And so on and so forth. None of this is new. It's just that we've never actually sat down to acknowledge it, figure out how to move past it and fix the convoluted mess that has become our immigration system. To add even more complexity you need to think about our historic relationship with Mexico. The Spanish were here first and there are people living in Mexico who have family lines in this country that go a lot farther back than any of ours. The southwest belonged to Mexico, so did most of California. When we decided we wanted the territory for ourselves we did the same thing to them that we did to the Native Americans. We've never really addressed any of that either. Instead we are dead set on announcing were her "first" and darn any brown people who seek to be here.
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saveinla
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Sept 8, 2017 12:38:39 GMT -5
Post by saveinla on Sept 8, 2017 12:38:39 GMT -5
Just because a member of my family - 100 years ago - robbed a bank doesn't mean I have to condone bank robberies. In addition, said ancestor, who the writer puts up as a shining example of the wonders of illegal immigration was found not-guilty in a court of law of doing anything other than abiding by the law, if I read the article correctly. It doesn't appear he was an illegal immigrant, according to the law. So...article = silly. It's a offense to falsify records used to get citizenship - he forgot to file in time, so predated the year to be 1909 instead of 1911. He was charged, but the jury found him not guilty. If he was found guilty, he may have been deported, even though he was here legally.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Sept 8, 2017 13:07:52 GMT -5
Post by Green Eyed Lady on Sept 8, 2017 13:07:52 GMT -5
Just because a member of my family - 100 years ago - robbed a bank doesn't mean I have to condone bank robberies. In addition, said ancestor, who the writer puts up as a shining example of the wonders of illegal immigration was found not-guilty in a court of law of doing anything other than abiding by the law, if I read the article correctly. It doesn't appear he was an illegal immigrant, according to the law. So...article = silly. It's a offense to falsify records used to get citizenship - he forgot to file in time, so predated the year to be 1909 instead of 1911. He was charged, but the jury found him not guilty. If he was found guilty, he may have been deported, even though he was here legally. Correct. Not guilty. End of story. The jury didn't say he forgot to file in time so he predated it. They found him not guilty of doing so not because, as the article implies, they took pity on him; but because they could find no evidence he did so. It's as possible he did not do it as it is that he did do it.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Sept 8, 2017 15:05:45 GMT -5
There are definitely people using social security numbers that are fake, stolen or borrowed.
My BIL realized he hired the same guy 3 times, they were different people and none of them answered to the name on the card. Lol.
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spartyparty
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Sept 8, 2017 15:19:04 GMT -5
Post by spartyparty on Sept 8, 2017 15:19:04 GMT -5
He very well could have been guilty...but there wasn't any/enough evidence to prove that he forged the document. If the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Sept 8, 2017 20:16:51 GMT -5
Daca participants have the right to work under their own SS#. I suspect you know that, and are trying to confuse/influence others to support your Hate Filled/Backward/Biased Beliefs.Bean ........ in this area SS# are purchased at the local 'taco stand' ......... No, I am not hate filled, or backward, or biased. I believe people should be held responsible for their actions. The parents of these dreamers are the ones that should go back home and come back LEGALLY if they wish. I have had to work too hard all of my life to see my tax funds being spent in frivolous ways. PS: I'm also against people bailing on their student loans. You received them, you pay them back. Again, Why would A Daca qualified immigrant work under someone else's taxpayer id? That would be an illegal act that would cause their Daca status to be revoked. The taxpayer id they have in their own name is all they need to legally work in the US. They stopped allowing people to bail on their student loans sometime in the 1980's. IDK why you are wasting your time thinking about what other people are doing.
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sesfw
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Sept 9, 2017 9:37:49 GMT -5
Post by sesfw on Sept 9, 2017 9:37:49 GMT -5
Bean, IDK why you are wasting your time thinking about what other people are doing.
When it affects our communities, yes I care ........... Do you?
NOT ONCE have I said anything about revoking the status .............. I have said several times ........... send the parents back home so they can come legally.
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andi9899
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Sept 9, 2017 13:01:52 GMT -5
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Post by andi9899 on Sept 9, 2017 13:01:52 GMT -5
Bean, I DK why you are wasting your time thinking about what other people are doing.
When it affects our communities, yes I care ........... Do you? NOT ONCE have I said anything about revoking the status .............. I have said several times ........... send the parents back home so they can come legally. How does it affect you? The DACA recipients are working and paying into the economy just like you. They are buying consumer goods just like you. The only thing they aren't receiving is any benefit that requires you to be an American citizen. Or would you be referring to the parents who are doing the same as their kids and just don't have protection from deportation?
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