chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Sept 2, 2017 11:01:54 GMT -5
I would be good with a five year look back. If they have been here over five years, give the parents the green card with permanent status being allowed. That is assuming no MAJOR laws were broken, etc.....outside of being here illegally. Speeding tickets broken tail lights, etc, not an influence on the decision. What about identity theft? Fraud? Operating a vehicle without a proper license? Operating said vehicle without insurance? Drunk driving? And the countless other laws that legal citizens are expected to obey that some now want to waive for non-citizens... I didn't read that VB was for completely waiving the penalties for those crimes, just that he didn't think it should count against anyone trying to become legal.
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mollyanna58
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Post by mollyanna58 on Sept 2, 2017 11:07:04 GMT -5
Illegal immigrants know they are breaking the law. They know they are breaking the law on a daily basis. I've never understood the thinking that rewarding them will suddenly turn them into ideal citizens.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Sept 2, 2017 11:49:15 GMT -5
Illegal immigrants know they are breaking the law. They know they are breaking the law on a daily basis. I've never understood the thinking that rewarding them will suddenly turn them into ideal citizens. the difference for DACA kids is that they didn't make that choice. that's personally where I draw the line.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Sept 2, 2017 12:55:14 GMT -5
Illegal immigrants know they are breaking the law. They know they are breaking the law on a daily basis. I've never understood the thinking that rewarding them will suddenly turn them into ideal citizens. Illegal immigrants know that they are able to live a better life by being in this country. They have made the choice to be here. They can appreciate in a way that native born citizens never will the incredible gift of a life in this country .
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Sept 2, 2017 12:58:21 GMT -5
Parents of DACA kids are here illegally.
If the parents are not working, they are getting freebies to live from somewhere ......... and my taxes are paying for this
If the parents are working, they have false SS #s and this is against the law ....... illegal
Doesn't matter how it's spelled or spun ......... it's still illegal
IMHO the only path that should be available to them is go back home and apply legally. Depending on the length of time in US as to how close to the head of the line they would be placed.
One guy I know went back to Mexico and returned to US legally in 11 months. Another one was 6 months. Both are adults that married US citizens and have families.
It can be done. I still think the parents who came here illegally should pay consequences instead of being rewarded.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Sept 2, 2017 17:00:20 GMT -5
The law of being born in the work place. I commend all of us who were born lucky in the land of the free and a prosperous country. We really had to restrain from breaking the law of wanting safety and a better life for our children.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Sept 2, 2017 19:26:51 GMT -5
The law of being born in the work place. I commend all of us who were born lucky in the land of the free and a prosperous country. We really had to restrain from breaking the law of wanting safety and a better life for our children. can I ask you an honest question, no snark? where else in the world would you expect to be able to show up and just build a life without paperwork? just join the work force, find a home, build a family. why should that be okay here?
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Sept 3, 2017 11:09:32 GMT -5
..One of the "Dreamers" who may face deportation if DACA is rescinded... Houston-area paramedic Jesus Contreras worked six days straight after Hurricane Harvey hammered through southeast Texas, rescuing people from flood waters and taking some of them to local hospitals. In between rescuing people and helping people who needed dialysis, insulin, or reach life-saving medical machines, Contreras didn’t have a lot of time to think about himself. That changed when he came home on Thursday to shower and saw the news that President Trump may end Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA). www.buzzfeed.com/adolfoflores/daca-rescuer-hurricane-harvey?utm_term=.fjZE9pwnlK#.wd9VvpQd0G
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haapai
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DACA
Sept 4, 2017 15:51:04 GMT -5
Post by haapai on Sept 4, 2017 15:51:04 GMT -5
Some companies are trying to train people for these jobs. There's a lot of people in the construction industry that feel like the influx of cheap, illegal labor depressed wages for construction workers, taking away family wage jobs and diminishing quality. It's a race to the bottom because it's difficult to compete for contracts if your labor costs are higher. Babe, you missed the sarcasm. Or maybe you didn't and tried to edit it away. My country has an irrational love of non-citizen workers. They don't need to be paid much and they always show up for work. They'll also work long, whether they are paid for it or not. And if they complain, or are not needed, they are disposable. Citizens who are "in the system" don't have it much better.
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Tennesseer
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DACA
Sept 4, 2017 22:45:58 GMT -5
Post by Tennesseer on Sept 4, 2017 22:45:58 GMT -5
Some companies are trying to train people for these jobs. There's a lot of people in the construction industry that feel like the influx of cheap, illegal labor depressed wages for construction workers, taking away family wage jobs and diminishing quality. It's a race to the bottom because it's difficult to compete for contracts if your labor costs are higher. Babe, you missed the sarcasm. Or maybe you didn't and tried to edit it away. My country has an irrational love of non-citizen workers. They don't need to be paid much and they always show up for work. They'll also work long, whether they are paid for it or not. And if they complain, or are not needed, they are disposable. Citizens who are "in the system" don't have it much better. I wish I could find the meme I saw the other day. It was about delaying the deportation of Mexicans back to Mexico so they could rebuild coastal Texas back to what it was pre-Harvey in a year's time.
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Tennesseer
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DACA
Sept 4, 2017 22:48:25 GMT -5
Post by Tennesseer on Sept 4, 2017 22:48:25 GMT -5
Trump asked aides for 'a way out' on DACA: report
BY JACQUELINE THOMSEN - 09/04/17 09:38 PM EDT President Trump reportedly asked aides for “a way out” regarding his decision on whether to end the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program. An "exasperated" Trump made the request of aides last week, with a key court deadline for DACA looming, The New York Times reported Monday. Chief of staff John Kelly reportedly gathered a group of advisers to help Trump decide to end the program with a six-month delay, a decision Politico first reported on Sunday night. The program, which started under former President Barack Obama in 2012, has shielded from deportation nearly 800,000 undocumented immigrants who were brought to the country as minors and who applied for work visas. Texas and a number of other states had threatened to sue over DACA unless Trump moved to end the program by Tuesday. Trump has reportedly struggled with the decision on the future of the program, after promising on the campaign trail to end the protections but facing strong opposition on doing so from members of his own party. Members of Congress have since promised to pass legislation to protect those impacted by the end of the program before the six-month window ends. The White House has said that an announcement about the program will come Tuesday, though the Times reported that White House aides were saying as late as Monday night that Trump could still change his mind. Trump asked aides for 'a way out' on DACA: report
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Sept 4, 2017 23:32:29 GMT -5
DACA: Donald Appeases Conservatives Again
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Sept 5, 2017 1:22:18 GMT -5
Illegal immigrants know they are breaking the law. They know they are breaking the law on a daily basis. I've never understood the thinking that rewarding them will suddenly turn them into ideal citizens. And yet we are willing to let rapist or child molesters walk when the statute of limitations has passed. These are adults who knowingly commited crimes and they are held to a far lesser standard than those brought to the country illegally by they parents as little kids. Tell me how this is right?
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Deleted
Joined: Apr 28, 2024 6:07:17 GMT -5
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DACA
Sept 5, 2017 4:37:21 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2017 4:37:21 GMT -5
The law of being born in the work place. I commend all of us who were born lucky in the land of the free and a prosperous country. We really had to restrain from breaking the law of wanting safety and a better life for our children. can I ask you an honest question, no snark? where else in the world would you expect to be able to show up and just build a life without paperwork? just join the work force, find a home, build a family. why should that be okay here? A great many of my Romanian relatives work construction in London now and my nephews and nieces are being educated there.
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zibazinski
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Sept 5, 2017 4:50:43 GMT -5
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 5, 2017 4:50:43 GMT -5
can I ask you an honest question, no snark? where else in the world would you expect to be able to show up and just build a life without paperwork? just join the work force, find a home, build a family. why should that be okay here? A great many of my Romanian relatives work construction in London now and my nephews and nieces are being educated there. They just showed up in London? No papers or work permits?
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zibazinski
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Sept 5, 2017 4:51:35 GMT -5
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 5, 2017 4:51:35 GMT -5
Illegal immigrants know they are breaking the law. They know they are breaking the law on a daily basis. I've never understood the thinking that rewarding them will suddenly turn them into ideal citizens. And yet we are willing to let rapist or child molesters walk when the statute of limitations has passed. These are adults who knowingly commited crimes and they are held to a far lesser standard than those brought to the country illegally by they parents as little kids. Tell me how this is right? I don't agree with rapists and child molesters ever being freed.
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Deleted
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Sept 5, 2017 4:54:56 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2017 4:54:56 GMT -5
A great many of my Romanian relatives work construction in London now and my nephews and nieces are being educated there. They just showed up in London? No papers or work permits? No, because open borders allow them those things. Because they are there so might as well work them into the system legally.
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zibazinski
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Sept 5, 2017 5:00:23 GMT -5
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 5, 2017 5:00:23 GMT -5
Ah. I see. Thank you
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 5, 2017 7:56:09 GMT -5
My thing with DACA is, if Trump opts to close the program, the people already enrolled should have that program honored. Granted, I'd like to see DACA continue via legislation, because those kid's didn't have a choice to come to the US and if deported they would be going back to a country where too often they don't know anyone and they don't even speak the language. I don't think that is right. What I think is even more wrong is for the government to tell 800,000 undocumented young people that they can get legal status by signing up for a program the government creates and then end that program and then have them lose their legal status. The problem is that if DACA is continued, what is to stop the continuing migration of additional illegal immigrants flooding into the country? The same people in favor of DACA are also NOT in favor of border control - so it just perpetuates the same cycle over and over. You might want to check the stats. Illegal immigration peaked in 2000 but started to decline during the 2008 recession and has been declining ever since. They're not 'flooding' into the country anymore.
www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/apr/25/donald-trump/illegal-immigration-lowest-17-years-trump-said/
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 5, 2017 8:04:44 GMT -5
And to think that Reps would get 800k votes for allowing DACA through is rather naive...which is maybe why they don't mind getting rid of it? No, the GOP wouldn't get 800,000 votes just by allowing DACA to continue.
However, in a country where the white vote is diminishing every year while the non-white vote grows, the GOP doesn't want to get tagged as the party that wanted to build the wall, coddle the neo-Nazi groups, and to reverse DACA.
If the GOP went back to being the fiscally conservative party and stopped creating anti-immigrant, anti-LGTB and anti-minority policies that pander primarily to Trump's 34% white middle class base it would go back to being the grand old party it used to be.
As many GOPers have said for years, they have to get a bigger tent.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 5, 2017 8:25:43 GMT -5
Radical idea but bear with me. What if instead of trying to make an already convoluted and broken system more convoluted and broken and spending money on a wall that our great great grandchildren will still be paying off, we KISS.
Go back to the migrant worker system that used to exist. If you are a migrant worker that tends the grapes in California for example, you apply for a VISA for a moderate fee, you come up here for the harvest season, collect your paycheck and then go home. Rinse and repeat the next harvest season.
You can apply the same rules to the construction and tourist industry.
Not only would this encourage people to come here legally but it would convince people to go home. You're not going to risk everything coming here illegally if you know that in 6-9 months you can come back.
This would also mean that employers would have to be on the up and up. Money would be going "into the system" because they are here legally so there is a way to track their paychecks. No more paying cash under the table so the INS doesn't come snooping thru your employment records.
Human trafficking would go way down because there would be no more incentive to give your life savings to a coyote who stuffs you in the back of an un-air conditioned truck with thousands of other desperate people to cross the boarder.
Then you could also do something like "Get 6 VISAs move up the wait list for citizenship" or something like that which would encourage people who want to stay here to do it the legal way because the process for those people who already go back and forth would be streamlined.
We get the bonus of still having a labor pool to exploit which means we get to keep enjoying cheap products/services. Politicians get something to continue to argue about and make ads about for generations as one side argues the program exploits workers and the other gets to argue it takes jobs away from Americans.
If this is all really about fixing the illegal problem this would be a brilliant solution. The infrastructure to implement this already exists and would have the additional benefit of fixing the immigration system as a whole. Less illegal immigration means the immigration courts are less flooded which means they can focus on the people who REALLY shouldn't be here. Less having to chase people around hopping the fence means Boarder Patrol can focus more on keeping drug smugglers and other criminals who shouldn't be here.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Sept 5, 2017 10:07:50 GMT -5
And yet we are willing to let rapist or child molesters walk when the statute of limitations has passed. These are adults who knowingly commited crimes and they are held to a far lesser standard than those brought to the country illegally by they parents as little kids. Tell me how this is right? I don't agree with rapists and child molesters ever being freed. I wasn't talking about them being freed: I was talking about the fact that they will never be prosecuted at all because their crimes are deemed to have happened too long ago. Yet for example the 25yo brought here as a 2yo, who did nothing wrong, is not protected by a similar forgiveness and that is just plain wrong. Note, I am very much in favor following the legal legal path to immigration but DACA is a separate animal altogether.
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zibazinski
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DACA
Sept 5, 2017 10:27:08 GMT -5
Post by zibazinski on Sept 5, 2017 10:27:08 GMT -5
I don't agree with rapists and child molesters ever being freed. I wasn't talking about them being freed: I was talking about the fact that they will never be prosecuted at all because their crimes are deemed to have happened too long ago. Yet for example the 25yo brought here as a 2yo, who did nothing wrong, is not protected by a similar forgiveness and that is just plain wrong. Note, I am very much in favor following the legal legal path to immigration but DACA is a separate animal altogether. I see. Thanks for clearing it up for me.
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Blonde Granny
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DACA
Sept 5, 2017 10:30:08 GMT -5
Post by Blonde Granny on Sept 5, 2017 10:30:08 GMT -5
DACA: Donald Appeases Conservatives Again That's why he was elected!!!!!!!!
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 5, 2017 11:38:32 GMT -5
DACA: Donald Appeases Conservatives Again That's why he was elected!!!!!!!! The president of this country is elected to serve the citizenry of the country as a whole, not to serve only those of his own political party.
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milee
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DACA
Sept 5, 2017 12:12:08 GMT -5
Post by milee on Sept 5, 2017 12:12:08 GMT -5
They just showed up in London? No papers or work permits? No, because open borders allow them those things. Because they are there so might as well work them into the system legally. My British in-laws believe that this was one of the largest reasons Britons voted for Brexit. There is widespread belief in Britain that the open borders cost them more than benefits them, mostly because inexpensive labor from other countries (they cited "Eastern Europe and Poland" as the ones most British people were complaining about) flooded in to take jobs and social services.
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Deleted
Joined: Apr 28, 2024 6:07:17 GMT -5
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DACA
Sept 5, 2017 12:21:44 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2017 12:21:44 GMT -5
Except London didn't vote for Brexit, did it?
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hurley1980
Well-Known Member
I am all that is wrong with the world....don't get too close, I'm contagious.
Joined: Dec 23, 2010 17:35:06 GMT -5
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DACA
Sept 5, 2017 12:29:07 GMT -5
Post by hurley1980 on Sept 5, 2017 12:29:07 GMT -5
Radical idea but bear with me. What if instead of trying to make an already convoluted and broken system more convoluted and broken and spending money on a wall that our great great grandchildren will still be paying off, we KISS. Go back to the migrant worker system that used to exist. If you are a migrant worker that tends the grapes in California for example, you apply for a VISA for a moderate fee, you come up here for the harvest season, collect your paycheck and then go home. Rinse and repeat the next harvest season. You can apply the same rules to the construction and tourist industry. Not only would this encourage people to come here legally but it would convince people to go home. You're not going to risk everything coming here illegally if you know that in 6-9 months you can come back. This would also mean that employers would have to be on the up and up. Money would be going "into the system" because they are here legally so there is a way to track their paychecks. No more paying cash under the table so the INS doesn't come snooping thru your employment records. Human trafficking would go way down because there would be no more incentive to give your life savings to a coyote who stuffs you in the back of an un-air conditioned truck with thousands of other desperate people to cross the boarder. Then you could also do something like "Get 6 VISAs move up the wait list for citizenship" or something like that which would encourage people who want to stay here to do it the legal way because the process for those people who already go back and forth would be streamlined. We get the bonus of still having a labor pool to exploit which means we get to keep enjoying cheap products/services. Politicians get something to continue to argue about and make ads about for generations as one side argues the program exploits workers and the other gets to argue it takes jobs away from Americans. If this is all really about fixing the illegal problem this would be a brilliant solution. The infrastructure to implement this already exists and would have the additional benefit of fixing the immigration system as a whole. Less illegal immigration means the immigration courts are less flooded which means they can focus on the people who REALLY shouldn't be here. Less having to chase people around hopping the fence means Boarder Patrol can focus more on keeping drug smugglers and other criminals who shouldn't be here. I heart everything about this idea! And Id also like to see stiffer penalties for companies that hire illegals. I still cannot figure out why there is no outrage at the factories that provide the jobs! Is it because these are big rich corporations, and the poor immigrants they hire make for a better scapegoat? There are so many people in this country that praise the rich, and despise the poor....even thought they are both committing crimes. What does that say about us and our lack of empathy?
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milee
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Post by milee on Sept 5, 2017 12:50:04 GMT -5
Except London didn't vote for Brexit, did it? Not my point. The people of London have to live with the vote of the remainder of the country just like in the US the people of New York have to live with a president they didn't elect. I'm just noting the parallels between what happened there and what happened here. People who are afraid for their jobs and think that others are taking advantage of government programs vote in predictable ways. I was shocked at the Brexit vote and that was the first time I turned to DH and said, OMG, the media is missing a huge move afoot. Trump could win here. He laughed.
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Tiny
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Sept 5, 2017 13:58:00 GMT -5
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Post by Tiny on Sept 5, 2017 13:58:00 GMT -5
Woo hoo!! Trump strengthens the "shadow economy"!!!! I'm sure that's what every conservative wants! Well, wait, I was being sarcastic with that... but on second thought - they probably DO want a nice strong "shadow economy" - in order to help keep non-whites in their place (poverty and crime and prisons)... It will be good to have so very many people who can provide cheap labor and who can't vote and have no recourse to justice of any kind. Making America Great Again!
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