The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Dec 17, 2014 13:30:01 GMT -5
gma.yahoo.com/obamas-race-weve-treated-help-120214087--abc-news-topstories.htmlNot sure where to put this so I'm sticking it under politics. There are several things here that kinda, well no, really bother me... #1 - let me state for the record - I've been "The Help". I'm not sure what being treated like the help is supposed to mean? Only minorities are "the help"? The help is treated poorly (yes - I've experienced this) etc. #2 - Does your perception create your reality? "The first lady also described being mistreated at a Target store in suburban Washington, during a shopping trip she took in 2011. "Even as the first lady," she told the magazine, "during the wonderfully publicized trip I took to Target, not highly disguised, the only person who came up to me in the store was a woman who asked me to help her take something off a shelf."
While I can't fathom how someone would not recognize the first lady, I don't get how asking a taller person to get something out of my reach on a shelf is mistreating someone. Hell, I'm a short shit and I've frequently asked taller strangers to help me out - and Mrs. Obama is a tall woman! I've also been asked by seniors and people in motor carts to get stuff off of bottom shelves etc - where have we gone where getting asked to help someone is being mis-treated? #3 “There’s no black male my age, who’s a professional, who hasn’t come out of a restaurant and is waiting for their car and somebody didn’t hand them their car keys," he said, according to excerpts of the interview released today. " I frequently wear a business suite (don't own any cocktail dresses) and have been mistaken for the dining management at both my and my DH's office xmas parties by other guests. At DH's previous employer it was a joke because his bosses' wife thought I was the manager and was horribly embarrassed when she found out who I was. I also often get stopped in department stores for the same reason. Now I don't discount the invisible black dude/cab thing - but mistaken identity is not only a race thing.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 17, 2014 13:41:45 GMT -5
Target has people to help you? News to me. Like when black people complained that servers at Denny's gave them bad service. Denny's gave everyone bad service.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Dec 17, 2014 13:43:58 GMT -5
I read the article earlier...the one thing that stands out when discussing racism is determining the difference between real vs. perceived (the same could be said about any form of discrimination). It does exist, but when people automatically assume that is the reason an action is being done....it doesn't really matter if it is true or not because that person will believe it either way. The mistrust that white people can teach their kids about non-white people is pretty must the same mistrust that non-white people can teach their kids about white people. If a person ask a non-white person for help in a store, some will assume it is because of racism...but if that same person ask a white person for help, it is simply assumed that person needs some help and race isn't a factor. If a woman pulls her purse closer to her when a non-white man walks into an elevator, too many people assume it is because of race...but if that same woman does it when a white male walks into the elevator...well nothing is really thought of it.
I'm not saying racism doesn't exist, but far too often people are only concerned with it coming from white people, while ignoring (or at a minimum saying nothing) about racism from other races. White people are expected to avoid even the perception of racism, while non-white people are not held to the same standard. When people assume they are going to be discriminated against, then anything can be seen as an example of it. It's a real issue that I hope someday we can overcome...but we aren't there yet.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 17, 2014 18:08:58 GMT -5
For Obama to say something like this is an incredible insult- to the help. Obama isn't qualified to valet park a car. How we let this asshole run the country is as mystifying as it is consternating.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 17, 2014 18:11:50 GMT -5
Target has people to help you? News to me. Like when black people complained that servers at Denny's gave them bad service. Denny's gave everyone bad service. Black people get bad service because as a rule, no matter how much they spend, or how great the service is, it's pretty well known they don't tip. Does it apply to every black person all the time? No. Would I stake my life on better than a 5% tip from a black person at Denny's? Not a chance.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 17, 2014 18:11:48 GMT -5
What a couple of whiners. Wah, wah.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 17, 2014 18:18:43 GMT -5
You know Moochelle doesn't shop with the peasants anyway, so she went out for a "person of the people" photo-op. It should have been simple, but she jacked it up because of the GIANT chip on her shoulder. The Obama family has worn out their welcome. Between the Clinton's and the Obama's we've had about the most classless and crass occupants of the White House in history. I'm not a fan of the Bush bunch, but at least they're semi-classy-- Jeb Bush's classless consideration of running for President notwithstanding (talk about wearing out your welcome).
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Dec 17, 2014 18:53:35 GMT -5
Here is some nice respect shown for B. Hussein and MOOchelle from rightwing Christian white people. To many they wore out their welcome in late January of 2008.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Dec 17, 2014 19:37:08 GMT -5
My all-time favorite 'treating Obama worse than the help' site. This is the kind of scurrilous crapola that they have been subjected to from day 1, even to rightwingers calling the beautiful first lady Moochelle to get their twisted kicks.
www.commieblaster.com/obama/
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Dec 17, 2014 20:04:22 GMT -5
People Magazine Fails: Michelle's 2014 Target Racism Story Exposed As a 2012 Target Feel-Good Story
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Dec 17, 2014 20:23:00 GMT -5
FLASHBACK: Valerie Jarrett Mistakes 4-Star General For Waiter
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Dec 18, 2014 9:06:20 GMT -5
i was thinking of the same thing when I read this. I am also really short and although rare I have asked people for help getting things on the top shelf. One was a very tall black man. He seemed incredibly nice but who knows what he thought of me without saying. I didn't care if he was colored purple he was like 6'7. Anyone that tall in a grocery store is going to be asked to reach something it is almost gauranteed. I have also asked people walking around places like Target that have about the same uniform if they work there. Most are nice and just say no but some get really pissed. I'm sorry for not knowing better but if you walk around Target in a red polo shirt, people are going to think you work there.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 18, 2014 9:30:35 GMT -5
At 4:44 Michelle Obama tells the real story of her visit to Target on Letterman, and she doesn't sound terribly upset by the whole thing. It was more a story of she thought her cover was blown, and as a tall person- I can tell you what it really is is tallism. We're always being asked to get shit for people.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Dec 18, 2014 18:05:35 GMT -5
People Magazine Fails: Michelle's 2014 Target Racism Story Exposed As a 2012 Target Feel-Good Story
So did the reporter misrepresent what was said or did the story told to the reporter change from what was said here?
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Dec 18, 2014 19:12:18 GMT -5
People Magazine Fails: Michelle's 2014 Target Racism Story Exposed As a 2012 Target Feel-Good Story
So did the reporter misrepresent what was said or did the story told to the reporter change from what was said here? Sounds like she is equating this Target encounter to ongoing racism in the country...that was the topic of the interview.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 18, 2014 19:12:23 GMT -5
People Magazine Fails: Michelle's 2014 Target Racism Story Exposed As a 2012 Target Feel-Good Story
So did the reporter misrepresent what was said or did the story told to the reporter change from what was said here? It strikes me that it was reported as a direct quote, it's been out there for an eternity in today's digital media age, and the First Lady has had plenty of time to correct the record if she didn't say what she is quoted as having said (from the OP link): I think the Democratic Party has internal polling showing that they are in big trouble with black voters, and the Obama's have chosen to basically make shit up to reassure the black community they are down for the struggle. Their recent troubles notwithstanding, the Obama's both have a history of making up rather easily debunked stories-- like Barack's outright lie that his parents met as a result of an event that took place several years after his birth- Selma, AL; EDITED- inaccurate account.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Dec 19, 2014 10:06:22 GMT -5
So did the reporter misrepresent what was said or did the story told to the reporter change from what was said here? It strikes me that it was reported as a direct quote, it's been out there for an eternity in today's digital media age, and the First Lady has had plenty of time to correct the record if she didn't say what she is quoted as having said (from the OP link): I think the Democratic Party has internal polling showing that they are in big trouble with black voters, and the Obama's have chosen to basically make shit up to reassure the black community they are down for the struggle. Their recent troubles notwithstanding, the Obama's both have a history of making up rather easily debunked stories-- like Barack's outright lie that his parents met as a result of an event that took place several years after his birth- Selma, AL; EDITED- inaccurate account. When a public figure on the left says something like this, I expect those on the right to say something back...and vise-versa. Usually though, there are spin doctors that normally come out to say what the person "really meant" and those who are politically aligned usually try to defend the person saying it (unless is it completely outrageous). I don't see that in this case...so it could be that in this instance people disagree with what was said and pretending like it wasn't said is the best way to make something like this go away.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 19, 2014 10:30:09 GMT -5
If you've lived your whole life on the public tit, and career politicians do, you ARE the help. You aren't supposed to be helping yourself to more tit but working hard to justify you living off taxpayer dollars instead of getting a real job.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Dec 19, 2014 12:40:52 GMT -5
I think the Democratic Party has internal polling showing that they are in big trouble with black voters, and the Obama's have chosen to basically make shit up to reassure the black community they are down for the struggle. Their recent troubles notwithstanding, the Obama's both have a history of making up rather easily debunked stories-- like Barack's outright lie that his parents met as a result of an event that took place several years after his birth- Selma, AL; EDITED- inaccurate account. Why do you think that?
We have the first black President ever, and he has been treated absolutely horribly by Republicans since day one. He has not even been accorded the minimal respect expected of the office which he holds. (EX- "You Lie" during his State of the Union address a few years ago)
Do we have any concept of the feelings and emotions among most black people when it became apparent that we were actually going to have a black president? Do you know what that means?
After that joyous moment to see him dragged down by any means possible by all manner of GOP operatives has not gone unnoticed. I don't believe you will see a large exodus of black voters to the GOP any time soon.
I don't know that political parties have a history of treating Presidents of a different political party very well. It doesn't help that Democrats basically shut out Republicans from the start because they had enough votes that they didn't need to compromise (and I'm sure that built some animosity). Democrats constantly pushing the idea that the President was only treated like he was because of his skin color didn't help the issue either. As for no ever being accorded minimal respect of the office which he holds, do you not remember the attacks on Bush or Clinton? I'm sure the same thing happened under Reagan, Nixon, Carter, and almost every other President as well.
As for the election, it was crazy that before it even started there was a message that if he didn't get elected it would/could only be because of racism. It's a self-fulfilling and self-defeating mentality....but it is one that is promoted and like I said in my first post, there is a very real difference between real vs. perceived discrimination. If you want to ask a real question about skin color, do you think the President would have beat Hillary Clinton in the Democratic Primary had his skin color been different (same ideas, same experience, same background, etc.)? Do you think had Mayor Ray Nagin had a different skin color, he could have talked about building a "chocolate city" (or some other equivalent) and been re-elected? What's really amazing is the number of people that defended him saying it. Racism is a very real issue that needs to be addressed, but not just from one skin color because we can all teach it. There are times when the President seems like he is sending the very powerful message that racism still exist, but people can not continue to blame racism for their failures and we all need to understand that we all have our biases based on where we live and how we grew up. Only by understanding that can we even start to look at them and examine ourselves. Then something like this happens, or the DOJ steps in about a case with men holding billyclubs outside a voting location, or the First Lady says all AA should vote straight Democratic ticket....and nobody (other than those on the opposing political party) seems to be saying "wait a minute, this isn't right."
I would agree that there probably won't be a large exodus of AA voters to the GOP anytime soon, but that has more to do with indoctrination that the GOP is a racist party...and I'm not sure if you've ever seen how an AA Republican is treated, but it's not pleasant. It seems as much due to peer pressure as anything else. I'm guessing it's not really much different from growing up anywhere else that is heavy into one party or the other...especially when there is this wide-spread perceived belief that the "other party" is somehow evil, racist, socialist, etc. If a person grows up in an area with a widespread belief like that, chances are that person will identify with the same concepts and end up primarily voting for the same political party.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2014 13:08:48 GMT -5
So in 2012 Michelle didn't see this Target incident as racist but in 2014 she does? hmm
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 20, 2014 0:16:37 GMT -5
I think the Democratic Party has internal polling showing that they are in big trouble with black voters, and the Obama's have chosen to basically make shit up to reassure the black community they are down for the struggle. Their recent troubles notwithstanding, the Obama's both have a history of making up rather easily debunked stories-- like Barack's outright lie that his parents met as a result of an event that took place several years after his birth- Selma, AL; EDITED- inaccurate account. Why do you think that?
We have the first black President ever, and he has been treated absolutely horribly by Republicans since day one. He has not even been accorded the minimal respect expected of the office which he holds. (EX- "You Lie" during his State of the Union address a few years ago)
Do we have any concept of the feelings and emotions among most black people when it became apparent that we were actually going to have a black president? Do you know what that means?
After that joyous moment to see him dragged down by any means possible by all manner of GOP operatives has not gone unnoticed. I don't believe you will see a large exodus of black voters to the GOP any time soon.
The GOP has rolled over and given this guy everything he wants. The truth is that he's been treated extremely well precisely because he is black. There's no other way to explain Obama other than the first Affirmative Action president. No white liberal loon could would have made it through the primary against Hillary. His entire life has been one of privilege, much of it having to do with his race / ethnicity.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 20, 2014 0:22:49 GMT -5
I think the Democratic Party has internal polling showing that they are in big trouble with black voters, and the Obama's have chosen to basically make shit up to reassure the black community they are down for the struggle. Their recent troubles notwithstanding, the Obama's both have a history of making up rather easily debunked stories-- like Barack's outright lie that his parents met as a result of an event that took place several years after his birth- Selma, AL; EDITED- inaccurate account. Why do you think that?
We have the first black President ever, and he has been treated absolutely horribly by Republicans since day one. He has not even been accorded the minimal respect expected of the office which he holds. (EX- "You Lie" during his State of the Union address a few years ago)
Do we have any concept of the feelings and emotions among most black people when it became apparent that we were actually going to have a black president? Do you know what that means?
After that joyous moment to see him dragged down by any means possible by all manner of GOP operatives has not gone unnoticed. I don't believe you will see a large exodus of black voters to the GOP any time soon.
It should be noted that President Obama DID LIE.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Dec 20, 2014 2:26:09 GMT -5
The GOP has rolled over and given this guy everything he wants.
HAHAHAHAHAHA! I can see now why you want the war on drugs to end.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Dec 20, 2014 9:03:18 GMT -5
Does anyone else find it strange that the first lady was in the detergent aisle?? Doesn't the white house have a laundry dept or something.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Dec 20, 2014 9:06:16 GMT -5
I do think the Target story should not have been included. I sometimes ask tall people for help too and sometimes help others shorter than me if I think I can get the item easier than they can.
For the rest of it, I don't know. My experience is different.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Dec 20, 2014 9:07:42 GMT -5
Does anyone else find it strange that the first lady was in the detergent aisle?? Doesn't the white house have a laundry dept or something. She was on a tour at Target. I think Target may have planned her path through the store. So No.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 20, 2014 14:30:18 GMT -5
The GOP has rolled over and given this guy everything he wants. The truth is that he's been treated extremely well precisely because he is black. There's no other way to explain Obama other than the first Affirmative Action president. No white liberal loon could would have made it through the primary against Hillary. His entire life has been one of privilege, much of it having to do with his race / ethnicity. Well that's funny. Remember Mitch McConnell's only goal during Obama's first term?
Regarding the 2008 Primaries, I'm sorry, I was there, and I saw it firsthand. It has nothing to do with his color, certainly not up here where it was probably to his disadvantage. There really was a palpable excitement not because he was black, but because he was not an insider, which of course Hillary personified by that point. Many people started out planning to vote for her, and yet switched to Obama because he seemed to offer something new and exciting. Not that "Hopey- Changey thing", but a fresh outsider's look at things. Someone who has not been in Washington forever. This is actually a well worn approach to popularity among candidates. One that benefitted Reagan and Bill Clinton in their day too.
As far as whole life being privileged I can't really speak to that as I don't know him, but I doubt it. I know from experience, growing up in a one parent home is not all about privilege. I certainly wouldn't trade my skin for a black one either in that regard.
I do recall Mitch McConnell's only goal during Obama's first term. Is there some problem with the leader of the opposition party wanting that party's president defeated in the next election? I know that a lot of people are very confused by this, but the object of the opposition ought to be to STOP the other party's agenda, and defeat them electorally.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 20, 2014 14:38:11 GMT -5
And I'm sorry- but there is NO WAY for a white liberal politician with such a blank resume and flimsy record to have gotten elected. The Democrat's and liberals were all amped up because of Obama's race, and the prospect of the first black President. All they talked about was the "historic" aspect of his election. What's historic about it? The answer is one thing: the color of his skin. After all, we've already had Jimmy Carter so there wasn't much else "historic" about Obama.
Obama wasn't some poor black kid raised by a single mom. He had his whole life handed to him on a silver platter- from his education at Columbia to his years at Harvard Law School.
Look, the guy had to work hard like anyone else that goes to Columbia and Harvard, but he was gifted these opportunities. He's basically never had to do an ounce of serious, real-world work in his life.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 20, 2014 14:45:37 GMT -5
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Dec 20, 2014 14:46:31 GMT -5
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