Are you responsible for how your kids turn out?

[Firebird]

This has been on my mind a lot lately, especially with all the "mommy wars" and talk of screwing up kids.

I know (as I'm sure most of you do) more than a few very successful, kind, wonderful adults who had absolute trainwrecks for parents.  And the reverse - people who had great parents and every advantage who are lazy alcoholics.

I definitely credit a lot of who I am today to my parents (who are great).  That's predictable.  And I think that a screwup with one or two screwup parents is equally predictable.  But there seem to be quite a few people in the other two quadrants also.

So, what do you think?  How responsible are you for the way your kids turn out?  How responsible were your parents for how YOU turned out?

[alabamagal]

I think 75% nurture (parents), 25% nature (kid's personalities)

[swasat]

So, what do you think? How responsible are you for the way your kids turn out? How responsible were your parents for how YOU turned out?

My kids are still young, 9 and 6, so hard for me to say now

My own self, I do credit my parents for giving me a good life, plentiful opportunities, a solid financial start to adult life, a stable family home, work and personal ethics and instilling a strong sense of self respect and independence in me.

BUT, I also strongly beleive in nature vs nurture. It boils down to the inherent nature of the person ultimately. I think one can nurture a person with "good" nature, perhaps even change some bad habits/beliefs in such a person. But its not particularly possible to nurture a "Bad" or "evil" nature.

[Angel!]

Honestly, barring absolutely horrible parenting, I think we have very little to do with how our kids turn out. 

This opinion is mostly based on a freakonomics podcast I heard.  IIRC, Studies have shown that the biggest impact we have on our kids is actually whether they smoke or drink.  How much education & their incomes seem to be much more genetically driven.  Although I guess you are still responsible for their genetics unless you adopted

[zibazinski]

I think parents are responsible if they don't teach their children proper behavior for certain situations. Or don't give them a chance to fail or really succeed on their own. My parents weren't great. Mom was awful. Dad was spineless but loving. But they did give me college so I was able to take care of me and mine. I spend too much on my kids trying to make up for divorce and not being there. Maybe even trying to compete with EX because he was always able to buy them I'm working on that. I still think kids raised well eventually turn out well but others don't and they have different views on that. I see DFs grandchildren and they act half their age and have zero manners. They aren't the only ones and that is a direct result of lousy parenting. Love without guidance is crippling.

[NastyWoman]

I think everyone has to own up to their own part in how a person turns out.  While you can control to a certain extend what you kids do and who they interface with, over time that influence wanes (good thing too, I really don't want to worry about my 30-something sons' acquaintances).  However, if I never guided/raised or abused my kids I would be at least in part eresponsible for how they turned out. On the other hand, the adult "child" over time will need to take responsibilities for their own actions, including seeking help if a horrendeous or even just not good youth makes that necessary.

Of course this works both ways: no matter how much I would like to take credit for how great my kids turned out at their age my part in their success in life is miniscule.

[sheilaincali]

I think to an extent you are responsible for how your kids turn out.

We were just having a discussion similar to this yesterday at my house. DH's friends come over a couple of times a month to play board games and things. This particular group has some differing opinions and views. JY is a very conservative Lutheran (who thinks most Lutherans aren't conservative and strict enough). JH is an uber nerd/geek like the rest of them and owns our friendly neighborhood game store (he is not religious and fights actively against gender stereotypes).  S is the lone single guy in the group (he reminds me of Phoenix) but is the principal of the local catholic HS.  DH is practically militant in his liberal, atheist views.

We got on this discussion because of the kid in MN that was arrested for planning to set off bombs at his school and cause a massive school shooting.  The town in question is close to ours.  It's coming out now that he had multiple "completed" bombs assembled in his room.  The question was - are his parents to blame for allowing his behavior to escalate and creating a home environment in which he was able to build these bombs and store them in his bedroom.

JY thinks the parents should be off the hook and the kid is old enough to pay for his crimes.  Side note- JY also thinks there is no bullying problem and that the "little whiners need to suck it up".  He says he was bullied in school and he turned out just fine.  JY and I argue frequently and have vastly different views on pretty much everything.

JH is disturbed that the parents didn't notice their kid building bombs in his room and that they should have recognized that he needed help.

S obviously is more involved than the rest of us given the nature of his job.  He is frequently shocked by the lack of attention some parents pay to what their kids are doing.  When he has to expel a kid the parents get called in and they always claim to "have no idea" this was going on.  And the kids behavior at home is always "fine".  He'd call parents and tell them "your 2nd grader was loudly quoting last night's episode of South Park in his religious studies class today"  They'd tell him "that's impossible, he doesn't watch South Park at our house".  Well yeah he does because he just quoted half the episode to his teacher.

 

[billisonboard]

I don't know if my parents are responsible for how I turned out but I do accept full responsibility for how they turned out.  Truly amazing they survived as sane as they are/were.

[Gardening Grandma]

I wonder a lot about the "mature vs nurture", but the "nurture" argument does not explain how siblings can turn out so different

[Sum Dum Gai]

I'm going to hedge entirely and go with 50/50... ish.

[sheilaincali]

DH and I are very involved in DS' life and know all of his friends, his friends' parents, what classes he's in, his teachers, his activities, his coaches, etc.  And I think if he did go off the rails so to speak we would feel that we are to blame to an extent.

He has a mouth like a sailor and I accept the blame for that. I swear in front of him and have never really punished him for swearing.

On the flip side he is a reader and we take credit for that.  We are both readers and we worked to foster a love of reading with him. We've always bought him books and encouraged him to read. We read to him when he was little and rewarded him for reading as he got older.

I think parents have the ability to be a big influence in their kids' lives but I don't think that they always take that opportunity. I am always shocked by the people I talk to that don't have a clue what's going on in their kids' lives. I'll run in to parents of DS' classmates and say things like "How's Zander liking AP US History?" And they give me a blank stare and say "Is he in AP US History?" I tell them "Pretty sure, he and my son had a group presentation this week in class"  Sadly they usually have no clue what's going on in their kids lives.

I think we can influence our kids with our involvement just as much as we can with our disinterest (with different results obviously)

[billisonboard]

I think a parent can help a person become comfortable with who they are and help them be the best "them" that they can be.  On the other hand, they can really mess up a person by attempting to make them something that by their own nature they are not.

[Ryan]

If you’re a pretty even-keeled person who is moderately successful, then your kid will probably turn out the same way. My parents kinda “phoned it in” with me because they were dealing with more pressing issues with my older brother. They were involved and all that, but as long as I was staying out of trouble and getting ok grades, they didn’t bother me. If you screw up a kid like me (and probably most kids), then I’d say it’s almost 90% parenting and 10% bad luck e.g. good kid, but one bad move sent him on a spiral.

When you’re talking along the spectrum of emotional, behavioral, learning difficulties, then I think it’s probably less so on the parents if the kids don’t turn out ok. You’re learning as you go and it really takes a long time before you start to realize if what you’re doing is right. My parents spent a lot of time worrying about my brother (and still do) because he was so emotional about everything and not all that rational. With those average kids, you instill some common sense in them and the idea of action/consequence. With my brother, he’d be doing stuff at 12 years old that I ,as an 8 year old, would be like “Um, I don’t know if you should do that”. Some kids just don’t put it all together like others and it’s hard for a parent to predict what a kid like that will do.

All in all, I think the opportunities that are probably missed are letting those “average” kids coast along instead of really challenging them and pushing them.

[Tiny]

I don't have kids... but I do think nature has a bigger effect than 'nurture'. That said, I also think that the vast majority of humans have approximately the same 'nature' doled out to them and that a small minority are on the 'borders'.

I do think Parents have a huge hand in teaching their kids "morality" simply thru their actions/how they get by in life. But, I also think kids as they become adults can (and often do) reject some of the 'morality' that pareents (and society) attempt to instill in them.

I think it's difficult to tease out what's nature and what's nurture for the 'vast majority of humans that have approximately the same nature'.

[Peace Of Mind]

I think it takes both - the parents/guardians and the kids themselves.  Mom used to always wonder how she pretty much taught all of us the same principals and guidelines but not all of us use them.  She was easier on the boys but she still taught them the same money sense and how to be responsible, clean, etc. 

It's up to us to learn what we were taught by them and then continue learning as we go out in the world.  If you weren't taught much when you were a child you will have a much harder road IMO but you have to listen to learn what is being said to you as you are growing up.  Parents, neighbors, friends, friend's parents, older siblings...   The lessons and teachings are out there.  You just need to remove thou head from thou's ass. 

I do know parents can change a child significantly.  When I was a step parent my step son who was an only child (exDH's little sister moved in later when their mom died but he was mostly raised as an only) he was very introverted and shy and awkward.  The parents were divorced and exDH had full custody but worked a lot!  The kid was pretty much on his own since about 7-9 years old.  When I came into the family I had to teach him things that should have already been learned.  I won't go into details and I've mentioned them before that includes bathroom habits in the pants and what to do with crap after the accident or the soiled sheets, how to act when around adults, how to treat friends that came to the door, how to eat at the dinner table... way too many things that should have been already taught. 

exDH always gave me full credit as his son blossomed because I got him out of his shell, helped him learn confidence about himself and he finally stopped soiling himself so that he could have friends stay over or he could stay over their house.  He'd actually just slam the door in a kids face when they came to play.  He's say No and just slam the door.    He wouldn't make eye contact when exDH's boss talked to him - or most adults he didn't know.  He'd just look down at the ground or be rude or just walk away while being talked to.  I could go on and on.  So I do know parenting has a huge impact on a child.

I taught him how to drive our boat, and he loved wake boarding!  He got really good at that and for his 10th birthday I had a surprise birthday party for him with a doz. kids from the neighborhood and friends of ours.  We scared him so bad he almost passed out though when we yelled Surprise!!!  He turned white as a sheet and his dad had to steady him.  LOL!  They all had a blast and they became friends and he went outside to play more and became quite the funny little guy.

exDH and I used to joke that we were probably the only parents in the world who gave high 5s when the school called to say he was mooning kids in class.  We were like Yay!!  He's acting like a normal kid!  One of my greatest achievements. 

[zibazinski]

[alabamagal]

Jun 30, 2014 14:10:34 GMT -5 alabamagal said:

I think 75% nurture (parents), 25% nature (kid's personalities)

If my kids turn out well, it was parenting.  If they don't it was nature!

[midjd]

I think 75% nature, 25% nurture.

Otherwise, there would be a lot less personality deviation among siblings who were raised under substantially similar circumstances. There's also the issue of children raised in terrible environments who turn out well, and children given all the advantages in life who turn out terribly. I know a lot in both groups.

One of my best friends was born to a 14yo mother and a paranoid schizophrenic father. Since college, she has run an NGO in a third-world country. Her younger half-brother is not as academically/career accomplished, but is still doing well. The brother's father also had some mental issues, and committed suicide about 5 years ago. Something in their family tree must have kept them afloat all these years, because they could truly not have had a more messed-up childhood.

Meanwhile, one of my HS classmates grew up rich, got gifted his own franchised restaurant when he graduated college, and is now spending 2 years in prison for sending pictures of his genitals to several teenage employees.

I also think that if your kids turn out well, you're a lot more likely to believe it's because of your own stellar parenting, whereas if they turn out badly (or are OK but just never lived up to your expectations) you can blame those faulty genes from your in-laws' side of the family.

[sheilaincali]

If my kids turn out well, it was parenting. If they don't it was nature!

It's easy for me to pay myself on the back when my kid is turning out well but it's harder to take the criticism if he does something wrong.  DH and I used to always joke about "the big kids on the bus".  DS would say "shit" or something and my parents would look at us and we'd say "those damn big kids on the bus again!" when we had probably said "shit" half a dozen times in front of the Boy so far that day. 

Honestly we chalk a lot of DS' success up to dumb luck (but I really think it's good parenting).  He is a super easy kid to parent though. With it just being the three of us there isn't room for drama and fits.  He is a very go with the flow kid that doesn't really cause any drama.  I may think differently if parenting him was an uphill battle.   

[Opti]

I think you influence how your kids turn out, but its not going to
be to the same degree for any human compared to any Mom or Dad.

There's far more at work then just nature and nurture as it assumes
or minimizes a whole set of influences from personalities, living situation,
region/country, media, current acceptable behavior, etc. What's good in
Iran might not be good in America and vice versa.

I think its possible to make a kid worse that they could be, however,
once they are an adult its their choice to be hampered by the past or
over-come it.

[billisonboard]

Jun 30, 2014 14:51:36 GMT -5 sheilaincali said:

.. He is ... He is ...  I may think differently if parenting him was an uphill battle.   

Is this an argument for "nature".

[Phoenix84]

Jun 30, 2014 14:10:34 GMT -5 alabamagal said:

I think 75% nurture (parents), 25% nature (kid's personalities)

Yes, this is basically a variation of the "nature" vs. "nature" debate and how much each contributes to the overall outcome.

I would say parents share responsibility for how their kids turn out.  But kids turned adults do have their own mind and personality, so obviously nature plays a part as well.

If having to weight one over the other, I would say "nurture" has more weight in determining the outcome instead of nurture, but both are important.

[Phoenix84]

Jun 30, 2014 14:00:44 GMT -5 Firebird said:

This has been on my mind a lot lately, especially with all the "mommy wars" and talk of screwing up kids.

I know (as I'm sure most of you do) more than a few very successful, kind, wonderful adults who had absolute trainwrecks for parents.  And the reverse - people who had great parents and every advantage who are lazy alcoholics.

I definitely credit a lot of who I am today to my parents (who are great).  That's predictable.  And I think that a screwup with one or two screwup parents is equally predictable.  But there seem to be quite a few people in the other two quadrants also.

So, what do you think?  How responsible are you for the way your kids turn out?  How responsible were your parents for how YOU turned out?

Is there a "mommy wars" thread I missed recently? Those are always fun.

[sheilaincali]

Is this an argument for "nature".

IDK.Is he those things because of my influence or because that's who he would have been regardless of who parented him?   I'm not one to typically praise myself or my abilities.  On some level I do think it's good parenting that has gotten the Boy to where he is so far in life but I honestly don't know. I'd like to think that I am a positive influence on him.

He was born when I was 22. DH and I had only been married a year at that point. Most of our parenting style is either dumb luck or guesswork. We genuinely like our kid so we spend a lot of time with him. We enjoy talking to him and he is a great conversationalist so we talk to him a lot. We are pretty mellow people and he is pretty mellow. We share a lot of common interests too.

My parents don't have a clue "who" I really am. DH's mom checked out when he was 5 and has always put her needs above DH's needs. We had one of those "I don't want to be like my parents" agreements when it came to raising DS.

DS is pretty successful for a 16 year old HS junior. Kids like him, adults find him to be well spoken and polite. He does well in school and is respected by his teachers. Either we are rockstar parents or we totally lucked out in the kid department. I really don't know what the right answer is. I feel like I'm doing a good job as a parent but I'm sure that other people would disagree with me.

[NastyWoman]

I vote that from this day on we blame SCOTUS for kids who turn out badly since they just ruled that employers can get out from under paying for birth control on "religious" grounds  but a BCP could have prevented that awful result from ever even becoming an option.  Anyone figured out yet how this ruling ties in with the "yes you HAVE to make a wedding cake for a gay couple" who cares that your religion is against gay marriage?

[lexxy703]

I read a fascinating book many years ago that did a study on nature-vs-nurture using sets of identical twins that were raised separately.  I think all were adopted but can't remember.  From the research it indicated that a lot of behavior is innate regardless of the environment they were raised in.  Of course none in the study was raised in an abusive situation.  So that wasn't factored.

To the question I believe parents guide their children but ultimately the child will make their own decisions & be responsible for their own lives & decisions.

[raeoflyte]

I think its predominantly nature, and that in general parents take way too much credit for how their kids turn out.

Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I believe parents guide their children but ultimately the child will make their own decisions & be responsible for their own lives & decisions



DH and I have this argument constantly. He is always saying "well this is how I was raised". You're 40 years old, at this stage in the game you've got enough life experience to know better and you're choosing to continue to behave that way.

DH was not abused, I can understand how that will color your entire life.

He throws that out with regards to things like spending. He's old enough now to understand how his dad got that much money and accept we don't have it and he needs to adjust his expectations accordingly.

My brother likes to throw out things that happened when he was a toddler for why he is the way he is. Maybe some of that did have an influence on him, but when you're 24 years old and have never held down a full time job for more than a few month. .. it's time to do some introspection. You can't blame something that happened to you when you were four forever.

[Opti]

How responsible are my parents for how I turned out?
IDK. I'd have to be brought up from birth with this body
and personality to give an accurate answer versus wild ass guess.


I think my Mom was a great Mom who encouraged me and her
other children to grow up and be prepared for the world.


I don't think it matters what the answer is as you can only do what
you can and the rest is up to your child and the life he/she will navigate
in the future. You can make your child a pedophile by sexually abusing
them or possibly even homosexual if you are a same sex abuser imprinting
them when they are young. Those are bad things we know parents (and
others) can influence. Also how one does house-keeping, sees religion,
and various other things often come from how someone is raised.

[swasat]

Jun 30, 2014 15:05:55 GMT -5 sheilaincali said:

Is this an argument for "nature".

IDK.Is he those things because of my influence or because that's who he would have been regardless of who parented him?   I'm not one to typically praise myself or my abilities.  On some level I do think it's good parenting that has gotten the Boy to where he is so far in life but I honestly don't know. I'd like to think that I am a positive influence on him.

He was born when I was 22. DH and I had only been married a year at that point. Most of our parenting style is either dumb luck or guesswork. We genuinely like our kid so we spend a lot of time with him. We enjoy talking to him and he is a great conversationalist so we talk to him a lot. We are pretty mellow people and he is pretty mellow. We share a lot of common interests too.

My parents don't have a clue "who" I really am. DH's mom checked out when he was 5 and has always put her needs above DH's needs. We had one of those "I don't want to be like my parents" agreements when it came to raising DS.

DS is pretty successful for a 16 year old HS junior. Kids like him, adults find him to be well spoken and polite. He does well in school and is respected by his teachers. Either we are rockstar parents or we totally lucked out in the kid department. I really don't know what the right answer is. I feel like I'm doing a good job as a parent but I'm sure that other people would disagree with me.

Maybe you are ABLE to do a good parenting job BECAUSE is innately good natured?

Maybe your answer would be different if you had one of those kids that are hell to parent?

Or maybe it has nothing to do with your parenting and you simply got lucky.