saveinla
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Post by saveinla on Jun 30, 2014 15:13:28 GMT -5
May sound too philosophical, but I have been reading Kahlil Gibran and here is what he says in the Prophet - "Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself. They come through you but not from you, And though they are with you yet they belong not to you. You may give them your love but not your thoughts, For they have their own thoughts. You may house their bodies but not their souls, For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams. You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you. For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday. You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth." Whenever I think that I am responsible for anything my son does or does not do, I am reminded of these words and I jolt back to reality.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Jun 30, 2014 15:15:16 GMT -5
I don't know. At 1 and 4, my 2 boys already have vastly different personalities. Ask me in 20 years how they turned out--it's too early to tell right now. Although, I did get a text from a new sitter today saying DH and I are doing a phenomenal job raising our children, because the kids listen. Maybe she sent the text to the wrong parents, 'cause they sure don't want to listen to me!
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 30, 2014 15:16:35 GMT -5
Is this an argument for "nature".
IDK.Is he those things because of my influence or because that's who he would have been regardless of who parented him? I'm not one to typically praise myself or my abilities. On some level I do think it's good parenting that has gotten the Boy to where he is so far in life but I honestly don't know. I'd like to think that I am a positive influence on him.
He was born when I was 22. DH and I had only been married a year at that point. Most of our parenting style is either dumb luck or guesswork. We genuinely like our kid so we spend a lot of time with him. We enjoy talking to him and he is a great conversationalist so we talk to him a lot. We are pretty mellow people and he is pretty mellow. We share a lot of common interests too.
My parents don't have a clue "who" I really am. DH's mom checked out when he was 5 and has always put her needs above DH's needs. We had one of those "I don't want to be like my parents" agreements when it came to raising DS.
DS is pretty successful for a 16 year old HS junior. Kids like him, adults find him to be well spoken and polite. He does well in school and is respected by his teachers. Either we are rockstar parents or we totally lucked out in the kid department. I really don't know what the right answer is. I feel like I'm doing a good job as a parent but I'm sure that other people would disagree with me. Maybe you are ABLE to do a good parenting job BECAUSE is innately good natured? Maybe your answer would be different if you had one of those kids that are hell to parent? Or maybe it has nothing to do with your parenting and you simply got lucky. I was pretty smug with my first kid because he was so mellow and such a good natured baby. Rarely cried, happy all the time, slept well, ate well, friendly, etc. It must be because of my great parenting.
Then I had the second kid and got a big dose of humble pie.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Jun 30, 2014 15:19:18 GMT -5
May sound too philosophical, but I have been reading Kahlil Gibran and here is what he says in the Prophet - "Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself. They come through you but not from you, And though they are with you yet they belong not to you. You may give them your love but not your thoughts, For they have their own thoughts. You may house their bodies but not their souls, For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams. You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you. For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday. You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth." Whenever I think that I am responsible for anything my son does or does not do, I am reminded of these words and I jolt back to reality. That's beautiful.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 30, 2014 15:21:44 GMT -5
I was, apparently, a very "interesting" young child. My working class parents actually took me in for evaluation. Following that, they were informed of what to expect from me as I grew. It was spot on.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 30, 2014 15:26:54 GMT -5
Maybe you are ABLE to do a good parenting job BECAUSE is innately good natured?
Maybe your answer would be different if you had one of those kids that are hell to parent?
Or maybe it has nothing to do with your parenting and you simply got lucky.
That's exactly what I'm wondering. On a regular basis DH and I have this conversation. I don't know what the answer is. I do know that DS is very easy to parent and get along with. I don't know if that is because we raised him to be that way or if we just got lucky. We never had more than the one kid partly because we weren't sure the answer to the question: are we good parents or just lucky?
Take my dog for instance. My Dalmatian died at 14 a few years ago. Typically they require a lot of exercise and are very hyperactive dogs. Ours was super mellow and would happily sleep 20 hours a day. She enjoyed her walks but by the time she was out of puppy stage she wasn't hyper at all. Did we luck out and get a lazy dog or did our hyper dog become lazy because we were lazy?
I do think that parents need to be involved in their kids lives and be aware of what their kids are doing, watching, hanging out with, etc. DH is firmly of the opinion that if your kid shows interest in something that as a parent you should learn about that thing too. If your kid is in to anime you should be aware of it enough to support their interest and carry on a conversation with them about it. Same with sports, books, games, etc. I don't play D & D but my kid does. I know who is in his D & D group, I know what his character is and what the character's name is. I have ZERO desire to play D & D myself but I can ask my kid after he is done hanging out and playing it with his friends how the campaign went because I have a solid enough foundation to show interest and ask questions.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 30, 2014 15:29:15 GMT -5
Is there a "mommy wars" thread I missed recently? Those are always fun.
You can check out my latest thread about the mom who left her kid in the car. It wasn't TOO dramatic, though.
I agree with everyone who's saying it's a mixed bag. I do think parents tend to take more credit if their kids turn out well and less if they turn out poorly.
Part of my parenting philosophy is to teach personal responsibility as early on as possible. Not so I can abdicate responsibility as her mother, but because I really, genuinely want her to be her own person and make her own choices whether I agree with them or not. Obviously there's still a fair amount of guiding involved, but I want there to be a noticeable drop in guidance the older she gets. If it's 95% guidance and 5% make your own choices now, I'd like it to be 5% guidance and 95% make your own choices by the time she's a senior in high school.
People disagree with me on this (a lot) but I think my job as a parent is to raise an adult, not a child. And adults can answer for themselves.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 30, 2014 15:33:25 GMT -5
Going along with my personal responsibility philosophy, though, is the idea that I am responsible for being a good parent. I need to be able to answer for my parenting choices regardless of how she turns out (although of course I hope she turns out "good").
I want to be a good parent to Babybird because being a good parent is consistent with being the person I want to be. And I hope she will want to be a good daughter/friend/cousin/maybe sibling/student etc. because that is consistent with the person SHE wants to be.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Jun 30, 2014 15:37:14 GMT -5
What I'm struggling with right now is how to teach my 4 YO to be resilient. How do you go about that? I see shades of his Gma in him when his first reaction is, "wah! I can't do it! Somebody help me!". His younger brother cries when he's struggling, but gets mad when you try to help him. He wants to be able to do it himself! Maybe we helped DS1 too much when he was a baby, but I'm trying to rectify that now. I've been trying to reward trying, and not crying. But, like I said, they're really different from each other, right from the start.
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Jun 30, 2014 15:38:13 GMT -5
Maybe you are ABLE to do a good parenting job BECAUSE is innately good natured? Maybe your answer would be different if you had one of those kids that are hell to parent? Or maybe it has nothing to do with your parenting and you simply got lucky. I was pretty smug with my first kid because he was so mellow and such a good natured baby. Rarely cried, happy all the time, slept well, ate well, friendly, etc. It must be because of my great parenting.
Then I had the second kid and got a big dose of humble pie.
Same with me My DD can be quite the challenge. She is not hellish, but man she can make us wonder why ever did we decide to have another child. Of course she is a perfect angel with outsiders and all we hear is praises on how good she is.
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gacpa
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Post by gacpa on Jun 30, 2014 15:38:41 GMT -5
Our son is an only child. I loved being pregnant. After he was born, his babyhood was a nightmare. Sick all the time and I am not kidding. The hubby and I stayed sick all the time from every germ he brought home from daycare. That was a rough time. From a behavioral standpoint, he has never given us any trouble for which I am extremely thankful. He was diagnosed with ADD is the second grade. But I got him on meds, and the ADD has never interfered with him living a good life so far. I think if I had not gotten him help with the ADD, we could have had much more trouble with him.
I don't know about nature vs. nurture. I see behaviors in him that I know did not come from me and hubby. I recognize them because I see them in my Dad also, mostly anger management issues.
I do think kids are born with a basic personality that is from "nature" but I also think how the child is raised or "nurtured" will influence them to an extent.
I do think as parents, we are responsible for how they turn out "up to a point" or "to an extent".
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 30, 2014 15:41:40 GMT -5
I don't think about parenting as in depth and philosphically as some of you... I have a lot of days where I feel that if everyone is still alive at the end of the day, then I'm doing an okay jobI take Chris Rock's approach. If she doesn't end up on the pole. I've done my job as a parent.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 30, 2014 15:42:14 GMT -5
I always kind of had the philosophy that it was my job not to raise assholes. I wish everyone followed that philosophy!
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Jun 30, 2014 15:43:57 GMT -5
I always kind of had the philosophy that it was my job not to raise assholes. I wish everyone followed that philosophy! "Assholes" is a relative term
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 30, 2014 15:47:23 GMT -5
... "Assholes" is a relative term True, it does apply to most of my relatives.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 30, 2014 15:48:39 GMT -5
People disagree with me on this (a lot) but I think my job as a parent is to raise an adult, not a child. And adults can answer for themselves.
I agree with you on this point. We went out of our way to treat the Boy as a "full voting member" of the family. We never talked down to him or baby talked to him. The very thought of baby talking to a kid drives DH batty.
My job is to raise a responsible, productive member of the human race. Someone that can contribute to society and do it without being an asshole (paraphrased from Zib ). His kid years are fleeting and he will spend decades as an adult. I want to try to point him in the right direction as much as possible.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 30, 2014 15:52:52 GMT -5
Some of you spend way too much time analyzing this. Your job is to keep them fed, clothed, sheltered, and teach them not to prey on others. The rest is on them. Parenting, in my experience so far although we aren't done yet, isn't really that hard.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 30, 2014 15:53:01 GMT -5
I actually used the phrase "full voting member" of the family the other day, Sheila. I think I got it from you There's a lot to love about the baby/toddler stage (or so people keep telling me) but I can't wait until Babybird is old enough to contribute to family discussions and choices. I can't wait to see what kind of person she becomes.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 30, 2014 15:54:18 GMT -5
Your job is to keep them fed, clothed, sheltered, and teach them not to prey on others.
I'm 3 for 4. If Babybird would just stop kicking me when I try to change her diaper
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 30, 2014 15:55:14 GMT -5
Your job is to keep them fed, clothed, sheltered, and teach them not to prey on others.
I'm 3 for 4. If Babybird would just stop kicking me when I try to change her diaper The last one is the hard part.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jun 30, 2014 15:56:27 GMT -5
I have thought about this a LOT, over 54 years of watching kids and parents.
I think that if you are a 'good enough' parent, how your kids turn out is largely due to their personalities and genes, with some influence from their siblings/birth order. Some families seem to be genetically predisposed to drug or alcohol addiction, and no matter how well the parents do raising their kids, sometimes the kids just end up gravitating to that. Same thing with mental health issues, like OCD and Asperger's - no amount of good parenting can 'fix' those kinds of tendencies in your kid, but 'good enough' parents can help steer their kids into a successful adulthood despite their personality/genetic predispositions.
On the other hand, if you have a really crappy parent, the negative impact on the kids can outweigh anything 'nature' dishes up for you. Crappy parents magnify the negative traits their kids are born with, instead of helping their kids learn to deal with them and be successful despite them. Crappy parents create kids with no self esteem, due to physical and/or verbal abuse. Crappy parents make kids who can't maintain a good relationship with other humans, because he doesn't know what good relationships are. I had one of those crappy moms, and when I had my own kid I purposely set out to do everything 180 degrees different from how she did things. I deferred to my DH a lot, because he had good parents - I figured he was more qualified than I was to know how to parent. We had a good kid without a lot of genetic/personality type hang ups, and he's grown up to be a very well adjusted and successful young adult - largely because DH was a good parent and I just stayed out of the way.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 30, 2014 15:56:41 GMT -5
There's a lot to love about the baby/toddler stage (or so people keep telling me) Meh. I mean they're cute and all, but meh. Older kids are way more fun.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Jun 30, 2014 15:57:54 GMT -5
I heard something interesting from a former police officer recently. He told me, "if you want to know what your kids are up to, check underneath their beds from time to time, in their dresser drawers, or in their closets. I can't tell you the number of times parents have told me their kids would never do something, & the evidence is right there in their bedroom."
Of course, being the nosy mom I am, I have been checking their rooms off & on for years. I don't like bad surprises!
By the way, although nature has a role, I still believe nurture has a greater role in how a kid turns out. Both in my Dad's family, & DH's family, the "spoiled, favorite child" got into trouble, & continued to get into trouble until their 30's. I guess "spare the rod, spoil the child" has some truth...
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jun 30, 2014 15:58:37 GMT -5
Hell no!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2014 16:00:45 GMT -5
I think there are certain kids that any parent can parent well (or at least well enough). And there are certain kids who will require very specific, exemplary parenting to turn out well.
I'm glad my kids seem relatively 'easy' kids to parent.
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Jun 30, 2014 16:03:24 GMT -5
Is this an argument for "nature".
IDK.Is he those things because of my influence or because that's who he would have been regardless of who parented him? I'm not one to typically praise myself or my abilities. On some level I do think it's good parenting that has gotten the Boy to where he is so far in life but I honestly don't know. I'd like to think that I am a positive influence on him.
He was born when I was 22. DH and I had only been married a year at that point. Most of our parenting style is either dumb luck or guesswork. We genuinely like our kid so we spend a lot of time with him. We enjoy talking to him and he is a great conversationalist so we talk to him a lot. We are pretty mellow people and he is pretty mellow. We share a lot of common interests too.
My parents don't have a clue "who" I really am. DH's mom checked out when he was 5 and has always put her needs above DH's needs. We had one of those "I don't want to be like my parents" agreements when it came to raising DS.
DS is pretty successful for a 16 year old HS junior. Kids like him, adults find him to be well spoken and polite. He does well in school and is respected by his teachers. Either we are rockstar parents or we totally lucked out in the kid department. I really don't know what the right answer is. I feel like I'm doing a good job as a parent but I'm sure that other people would disagree with me. Maybe you are ABLE to do a good parenting job BECAUSE is innately good natured? Maybe your answer would be different if you had one of those kids that are hell to parent? Or maybe it has nothing to do with your parenting and you simply got lucky. When we had our 1st kid, I used to just sit in wonder and amazement as people would tell me they had their kid sleep trained at 6 weeks. The parents, eager to want to take credit for it, would usually tell me they read some book and then implemented that advice. I remembered with our oldest, when my wife was out of town, I let him cry it out for 1 hour and 15 minutes and he fell asleep standing up! This same type of thing was played out over the next 2 years when it came to everything. I thought I was just a huge idiot and they were parenting geniuses. Then we had our 2nd and 3rd kids and I realized that people are just full of sh*t. They both slept through the night at 4 weeks old and I didn't do a thing to get them to do it. They loved taking baths, they would sit in their cribs in the morning without screaming their heads off, they were great eaters, etc. With my oldest, I found we worked on so many more things just to get him to where he needs to be for his age. With the younger ones, they are ok with doing anything.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 30, 2014 16:12:23 GMT -5
The only "full voting members" in my house are the ones who pay the bills! That's where we differ. If that's the philosophy that works for your family that's great.
In my house I don't want that. I don't want my son to see me as this dictator (not saying that's how your kids see you). I want him to have opinions and share those opinions with us. We treat him with respect and as a result he treats us with respect. We joke around with him and he jokes around with us right back.
I don't know how better to describe it. Our daily life is a very peaceful existence. During the school year I knock on the Boy's door and open it and say "Hey bud, it's that time" and he rolls out of bed and gets I in the shower. He'll come out and ask if I made anything for breakfast or if he is on his own (I typically make him something). He'll sit down and have breakfast with me. He always says "so, how'd you sleep?" "what's on your schedule for today?" When I drop him off at school he says "Bye Mom-goose, have a good day at work. Love you" After school I ask him "how was school today? Anything interesting happen? Do you have any homework or projects you need to work on tonight?" If I know he had a test or speech or something I inquire about that particular thing. At dinner time I call him out a few minutes early and he starts setting the table, he'll ask us all what we want to drink that night (milk or water). He'll ask DH and I "how was your day today?"
We seek out his opinion on things- movies he might want to watch with us, where to go for dinner, family vacation destinations, possibility of moving, etc. We almost always consult him and get his take on things.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jun 30, 2014 16:15:57 GMT -5
Sounds nice, but we'll have to reevaluate in 10-15 years. He might still be living with you and going through the same daily routine.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 30, 2014 16:19:41 GMT -5
I doubt it. The kids you wouldn't mind having stick around are usually the ones who actually launch on time
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 30, 2014 16:20:03 GMT -5
I heard something interesting from a former police officer recently. He told me, "if you want to know what your kids are up to, check underneath their beds from time to time, in their dresser drawers, or in their closets. I can't tell you the number of times parents have told me their kids would never do something, & the evidence is right there in their bedroom."
WE started a tradition years ago and whenever DS is gone for an extended period of time we completely redecorate his room as a surprise for him. This time we asked him in advance if he had any requests (he only had two- keep a ceiling fan in his room and he wants to be able to see his tv from his desk). This weekend we completely emptied out his room, moved his bed, went through his desk (he is a paper hoarder and emptied his locker into his desk at the end of the school year) and his closet.
If that kid wanted to hide something from us it's not in that room that's for sure. Not an inch of that room wasn't gone through, cleaned, organized, etc. We started this when he was 5 (redid his room in an awesome super hero theme that year). So he has grown to expect it. We flaked and forgot while he was in Germany but he messaged me the other day and said "how's my room redesign coming along?" DH and I had an "oh shit, we forgot" moment and decided to redo it. Hanging the final artwork tonight- he gets back on Wednesday. Under his bed I found mostly nerf darts, a missing shoe, some snack wrappers, books, a broken set of headphones and his empty (and until Saturday missing) wallet. Nothing too exciting. However I did have a WTF moment. He got a free hair get sample from somewhere and it was packaged like a condom and the slogan on it was something like "Impress her" or something cheesy about doing your hair to impress girls. After my mini-heart attack I tossed it to DH and said "Look what I found under the Boy's bed!" even he was like what the hell! until he realized it was hair gel. Great packaging random hair gel company.
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