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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2013 18:06:17 GMT -5
Do you feel any obligations to your extended family?
I used to feel obligated to do certain things for my extended family and was the nephew/cousin people would count on. But since I left NJ, it has lessen to the point I barely talk/keep track on how family members are doing.
As my mom said: I have become selfish. I feel it is more that I have been burned so many times that I went into survival mode: if it does not directly concern me or involve me I don't care.
So right now I am known as the selfish jerk that does not give a damn, etc. which works fine for me because my bank account is looking better, so is my mileage on my car.
Now come the current situation: my wife family is worried about her cousin and are grouping together to offer support: someone always with her, keeping her company, talking to her etc. She is still being self destructive "financially" but hey at least they are keeping her out of the loony hospital. Her jerk of an husband is not helping since he has refused to let her see her son 3 weeks in a row now ; they are going to court in 3 weeks.
Anyway my wife wants to be supportive and want to be there for her cousin and feel that her cousin might hold it against her or resent her for not being there like the others.
She could not go to DC or Florida with her and she does not want to get a tattoo (seems all the female cousins are going to get tattoos together). So her other two things:
- her cousin invited us to her house for Easter. I said hell to the no because I am closing my store at 3 PM and I am not driving 8 hours round trip just to go eat Easter dinner at someone house.
- go to Haiti with her in April. I was ok with that till I found out it was for a weekend: go on Friday come back on Sunday. Are you crazy? I am not seating on a 8 hour round trip plane ride, spending $479 on the ticket just to go spend a weekend in Haiti. Up it to a week and we will be talking, anything less no.
Now I am being a jerk and unsupportive. Ok fine with me; with everyone cooing over her I doubt she will miss us much.
Why is it we are the ones that always have to go through the trouble to be there for family members? I have an extra bedroom with a Fulton that can turn into a full size bed, anyone is welcome to come see us at anytime.
Why are we the one that has to jump through hoops? Yes we are the ones that choose to move away but that does not mean I want to travel back 10-15 times a year while no one ever comes visit us.
Sorry I will be missing a lot of big moments; let it be known if it is not a funeral, wedding or something major I will not be able to attend.
Signed
The Jerk!
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milee
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Post by milee on Mar 4, 2013 18:15:43 GMT -5
Backing away from all that crazy doesn't sound odd to me. Just be sure not to piss off that MIL who you plan to have as your live in maid and nanny. ('Cuz that sounds totally weird to me, but seems to work for you.)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2013 18:20:19 GMT -5
Personally I think some time in the "loony hospital" might do your wife's cousin some good. Sounds like her crazy, no-good DH still has custody of the kid (kids?). So maybe he's not all that crazy after all? Dunno.
This said, what about your wife goes to Haiti alone for the weekend, if she wants to go?
Your wife is not (yet) a SAHM mom. She earns money too. If she wants to go to Haiti, then I'd support her, and enjoy my weekend alone.
Also, frankly, I DON'T think you're "always the ones" who "always" have to do this or that. It probably just feels that way since you're living further away and everything "everybody" wants / decides to do is more expensive for you.
You obviously can't say yes to everything, but maybe you shouldn't say no to everything either? Especially if there's the occasional something your wife wants to do for her cousin.
ETA: Inviting your wife's cousin to travel 8 hours to stay on YOUR (free) futon isn't addressing the issues. That's just disingenuous / bad faith.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Mar 4, 2013 18:21:13 GMT -5
You and the Mrs could go to Haiti with everyone else and just stay longer... Or, your wife could go on her own.
And, I have to be honest, I don't blame the "jerk of a husband" for not letting her see the kid, since she is acting in a destructive manner. Turn it around. If it were a man acting self-destructively, would we blame the wife for keeping the kids from him, or would we claim she was just protecting her kids? Her husband has decided to act in what he believes is the best interest of his child. Now, of the court disagrees, that's one thing, but unless she's getting supervised visitation only, I'd expect him to fight it. Didn't you see the article just last week about a grandma who got her grand kids from daycare and then went and killed them and herself?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2013 18:22:46 GMT -5
Backing away from all that crazy doesn't sound odd to me. Just be sure not to piss off that MIL who you plan to have as your live in maid and nanny. ('Cuz that sounds totally weird to me, but seems to work for you.) Actually my MIL is on my side, she agrees that it is crazy to go to Haiti for a weekend. As for the cousin, if she wants to see us that bad she has a GPS and 3 cars; she can find our apartment easily. P.S: MIL informed me that if we did not make her waste the money on our wedding she would have given it to us as a downpayment for a house! -- All news to me. But yeah seems my MIL gave my wife a choice between a small church wedding followed by a small reception (close family only) and we could pocket 15k or spend 15k on the wedding. My wife off course picked spend 15k on the wedding. Strangely we are close and I don't mind her at all.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2013 18:27:43 GMT -5
There is ALWAYS drama in your family, Cawiau. I'd do my best to stay out of it.
But since you DO stay out of MOST of it NOW, because you live farther away, if your wife wants to help her cousin out once in a while, I'd just leave it alone and thank my lucky stars that it costs "X" and that we live "Y" miles away from them so whatever happens, it doesn't happen too often LOL.
ETA: I added the NOW.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Mar 4, 2013 18:27:48 GMT -5
It only means "selfish jerk" in the narcissist's never gets enough from others dictionary. Normal people just call that smart and emotionally healthy to stay away from all of that drama and crap. One of my brother's thought him procreating was the be all end all for everybody related to him. He felt we should pay for everything, do everything and celebrate everything around his children. Boy was he ever wrong and we all had to give him a huge eye opening of real life and how it would be. Then he thought he was punishing everybody when he stopped inviting people to the gift and food grab of his. LOL! Had we all known that was the end result we would have done it way earlier! You are lucky to be figuring all this out in your 20's. Congrats!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2013 18:30:28 GMT -5
P.S: MIL informed me that if we did not make her waste the money on our wedding she would have given it to us as a downpayment for a house! -- All news to me. But yeah seems my MIL gave my wife a choice between a small church wedding followed by a small reception (close family only) and we could pocket 15k or spend 15k on the wedding. My wife off course picked spend 15k on the wedding.
Why am I not surprised?!
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susanb
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Post by susanb on Mar 4, 2013 18:31:29 GMT -5
Every family has family rules. Some of them are functional and others are not so functional.
Most of my mother's family live in poverty today. It has been hard for me to maintain a relationship with a lot of them over the years because some of their family rules are very disfunctional. If my mother hadn't been willing to reject her family's rules that didn't work for her, she wouldn't have had the sucess she has in her later years. I am sure there are people here from wealthy families with similar experiences. Perhaps you and your wife could discuss each of your family's rules and decide which ones you enjoy and service you and which ones you will choose not to follow.
For example, my mother used to give a lot of money to her family (when she didn't have it to give) because one of her family's rules is: "If you are more sucessful, what is yours is ours." She really couldn't break free of that until she identified it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2013 18:32:00 GMT -5
Personally I think some time in the "loony hospital" might do your wife's cousin some good. Sounds like her crazy, no-good DH still has custody of the kid (kids?). So maybe he's not all that crazy after all? Dunno. I agree on the loony bin and they are going in front of a judge to get a formal custody. He doesn't have custody per say, they agreed between them but he is not holding his end so it is better to get a formal one from a judge: Ex: will pick up the son a day or two earlier - called the cops on her aunt because she was not at the house when he came to pick up the child (seriously) - refuse to give her the kid when she went to pick him up, 3 weeks now. She is more than welcome to go and I told her the same for Easter. I am not going. Nope it is that way. Her mom is the only one in her family that visits us regularly like once or twice a month and stay for a week. In my family it is my little brother and sister (thanksgiving and Christmas mostly) and I am the one that goes to pick them off then drop them off. Everything else we are usually the ones that have to drive/fly there or spend money to make it there. One cousin is pissed at me for missing her wedding last summer... Sorry I couldn't make it to Montreal; send me some pictures!
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Jake 48
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Post by Jake 48 on Mar 4, 2013 18:36:42 GMT -5
Cawiau, I'm with you, continue to be a jerk. I wouldn't tell DW she can't see her family, i would just have nothing to do with it
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2013 18:37:21 GMT -5
Her mom is the only one in her family that visits us regularly like once or twice a month and stay for a week.
In my family it is my little brother and sister (thanksgiving and Christmas mostly) and I am the one that goes to pick them off then drop them off.
Carl, sorry I wasn't clear. I meant the issues with your wife's cousin. I meant what you posted about (her mental health issues, people being around, the girls going out for tattoos, etc).
I did NOT mean your wife's mom or your little brother or sister. To me it's normal that you'd go somewhat out of your way for them, especially since you can. Once kids come along, even that will become much more difficult.
These are your siblings, and your wife's mom. NOT the same thing, in my book. I'd definitely go much more "out of my way" for a parent or in-law or sibling.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2013 18:38:30 GMT -5
[ For example, my mother used to give a lot of money to her family (when she didn't have it to give) because one of her family's rules is: "If you are more sucessful, what is yours is ours." She really couldn't break free of that until she identified it. We must be related because my family seems to have the same rule too. My mom still fall for it and I don't. She called me the other day and lectured me on how it was my duty to send money to family members that are less fortunate than me. Yeah, not gonna happen!
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quince
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Post by quince on Mar 4, 2013 18:41:43 GMT -5
I feel some obligation-I visit family across the country once a year, once to Hawaii, once to SF. If I plan well, I can knock both visits out in one trip. Sounds great, but I hate traveling, so this is out of love, not a desire to see the beach.
People have come to see me twice the last decade and a half- wedding, graduation.
Otherwise, not so much. If anyone wants to get on my tail about doing enough, I will feel free to do less. My money is not their money, my time is not their time. If I give support, it's because I want to. Blood means absolutely nothing to me- the relationship I have with a person just might.
And the husband's family is his problem, not mine.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2013 18:42:10 GMT -5
Do you feel any obligations to your extended family?
Carl this is what you posted. I'd consider my wife's cousin extended family.
I would NOT consider her mom or my siblings extended family.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2013 18:42:31 GMT -5
Cawiau, I'm with you, continue to be a jerk. I wouldn't tell DW she can't see her family, i would just have nothing to do with it I would never tell her not to see her family but I choose not to bend over backward to participate in the love fest. If it is a day I am off and we planned it in advance no problem I will make the effort. Or I like to plan the two birds with one stone kinda days: - leave at 8 - quick visit to her family in Long Island - drive an hour to NJ for a quick visit with my family - head back home All done and home by 10 or midnight. Wham bam thank you mam!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2013 18:46:09 GMT -5
Do you feel any obligations to your extended family?
Carl this is what you posted. I'd consider my wife's cousin extended family. I would NOT consider her mom or my siblings extended family. I meant that the only folks that visit us is her mom and my brother/sister. My MIL is more than welcome to keep on visiting and I will keep on driving to pick up my brother and sister till they are old enough to take the bus or train on their own. Those are the only regular visitors we had in 5 years since we moved away. Everyone else was maybe once if even. So no I do not feel guilty saying no to extended family members or missing parties/birthdays. And I am getting tired of always having to be the one to drive/fly to go see others
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2013 18:50:36 GMT -5
I meant that the only folks that visit us is her mom and my brother/sister. My MIL is more than welcome to keep on visiting and I will keep on driving to pick up my brother and sister till they are old enough to take the bus or train on their own.
Those are the only regular visitors we had in 5 years since we moved away. Everyone else was maybe once if even.
So no I do not feel guilty saying no to extended family members or missing parties/birthdays.
And I am getting tired of always having to be the one to drive/fly to go see others
I can understand this Carl. I would have NO trouble with saying sorry, no can do.
But I also would have NO trouble with my wife saying yes, since it's her family. I'd probably encourage her to choose the easiest / cheapest option though. Again, this is a pretty moot argument. Once you have kids, you have a VERY easy excuse.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 4, 2013 18:58:53 GMT -5
I agree on the loony bin and they are going in front of a judge to get a formal custody. He doesn't have custody per say, they agreed between them but he is not holding his end so it is better to get a formal one from a judge:
Ex: will pick up the son a day or two earlier - called the cops on her aunt because she was not at the house when he came to pick up the child (seriously) - refuse to give her the kid when she went to pick him up, 3 weeks now.
At this point, the ex is correct IMO. Why should he transfer custody of the child when he cannot be sure that the mother is going to take care of him. If his grandmother's in the house, the ex can be sure that the child is being properly cared for.
Your wife's cousin really needs to think about getting help before going before the judge or she may lose unsupervised visitation with her child entirely.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 4, 2013 19:57:39 GMT -5
I agree with everyone that considering what you've posted about your cousin the husband is right to be a "jerk". There was recently a mom here who was apparently unstable and picked her kid up from school, took him down to Manawa and proceeded to strangle him to death with fishing line and then killed herself.
You really cannot be too careful when you have a clearly unstable parent who refuses to seek help for her issues, IMO. I'd rather everyone think I am the biggest bitch on the planet than risk my kid.
As for you I have found that when you finally untangle yourself from the drama people get mad at you because it forces them to acknowledge they DO have a choice in the matter, they do not HAVE to drink the Kool-aid. Misery loves company, in other words.
I'd suggest your wife read the book Boundaries or Co-dependent No More.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2013 20:14:55 GMT -5
I am starting to wonder if the guy is not as coocoo or worse; seriously. So to be honest I don't know who is the son better off with: mom or dad.
Mom: has some issues and self medicate with some shopping/spending.
Dad: just plain stupid mixed with some Crazy.
- seems the girlfriend was smart enough to his ass. So he has been taking the bus to come pick up his son. I personally think that is one of the big reasons he doesn't want to give him to her. - has asked her to get back together. Yep batshit crazy I tell you. - refuse to give them the range rover and it is hidden somewhere. Told them he rather go it in a ditch or store it under a bridge than to give it to them... Did I mention batshit crazy. - my wife other cousin caught him on camera attempting to hit her.
They both have their issues: good luck to the judge trying to figure that one out.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Mar 4, 2013 20:23:25 GMT -5
DH's family is a lot like yours sounds, Cawaiu. Almost all of them (aunts, uncles, second cousins) are very kind people who will bend over backwards for anyone in the family. We have no problem helping them out because we know it would be paid forward or reciprocated. They are a seriously great bunch. But there are a few who seem to have a disproportionate number of crises, or who act extremely irresponsibly, and the rest of the family slowly freezes them out. It's kind of neat to watch. At least they're using their power for good instead of evil, I guess Anyway - we both have our lists of family members for whom we'd drop anything and the ones who get sent straight to voicemail, but it's easy enough because we don't get a lot of pressure from the rest of our families (they are usually sending the same people to voicemail ). In your situation it would be more difficult to avoid those obligations. There is a difference between going to visit relatives vs. getting tattoos and going on vacations the other person can't afford, though...
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Mar 5, 2013 8:44:40 GMT -5
I agree with the others who said you should encourage your wife to go visit her cousin alone. There is no rule that married couples have to do everything together 100% of the time. I drive 6 hours every other weekend to visit my mother in an assisted living facility and DH doesn't come with me. He stays home and does the grocery shopping, which is much more useful for both of us. (I don't know that my mom would even recognize DH at this point anyway...)
As for your mom insisting you have an obligation to share your money with family members who are in need - that's a cultural thing, I think. In our family, other than a token birthday gift to nieces and nephews and Christmas gifts to my mom, there is no expectation of helping out family members financially. I didn't receive any 'gifts' from relatives, and so far none of them have come to me for help, although I expect my older sister will at some point, but I won't have a problem declining to help her (she decided to stop working at age 50 because she 'didn't like' working - so I don't feel an obligation to support her now).
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Mar 5, 2013 9:32:57 GMT -5
There's a fine line between "being supportive" and "enabling." Sometimes it very hard to see where that line is.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2013 9:40:42 GMT -5
There's a fine line between "being supportive" and "enabling." Sometimes it very hard to see where that line is. I have a crazy cousin myself and I think her mother has made things way worse by constantly picking up the pieces.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2013 9:42:59 GMT -5
There's a fine line between "being supportive" and "enabling." Sometimes it very hard to see where that line is. POTD
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2013 9:45:54 GMT -5
I feel no obligation to help out my relatives; we're all able-bodied adults. Now if something happened to my IMMEDIATE family (parents, siblings, nieces/nephews) then I would want to help if I could.
But Aunts, cousins, 2nd cousins and the like? Not a chance! I only see them once every two years or so for a family reunion so I don't think I'm on their radar anyway.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Mar 5, 2013 10:19:15 GMT -5
C, in my family I am happy to assist my Mom, or DH's Mom & Dad, or our siblings (but only to a point for them--they're all legal age & can take responsibility for themselves). Only once have I helped an extended family member financially, but that was a REAL emergency. Not a "I've been making poor life choices & I expect you to help" kinda thing. I have no problem with you keeping the "crazies" in your family at arm's length. If your DW wants to go support someone on her side, it's fine if she goes & visits, IMHO. The others are probably talking trash about you, because you've finally cut the apron strings. Funny how quickly they forget how much help you've given them over the years.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Mar 5, 2013 11:09:31 GMT -5
I have to let go and allow my husband to make decisions I don't agree with. I figure we both work and we are not always going to agree on the importance of things. I find this is especially true with family issues. We are to the point that we discuss the issues, give our opinions to each other and then we don't fight about it if we don't agree.
My husband "earned" tickets to a major destination sporting event 3 years in a row. The first year it was tickets, lodging and a credit for airfare. Cost us about $1,000.
Second year it was tickets, no lodging and no credit for airfare. DH went with a friend, stayed at a relatives house and it cost under $1,000.
This year he "earned or won" the tickets again - tickets no lodging and no airfare. I asked DH to turn them down. I am not a sports fan, and if he took one of the kids or his dad or one of his brothers we would end up paying the whole cost - probably $2,000. DH wanted to go, but he ended up turning them down.
You are never obligated to help family financially. Once they get their hands in your pockets they will never willingly let go and you have created an entitlement. Be very very careful with this - it is good you have this distance and the excuse of the 8 hour round trip drive. Take advantage of it. I don't think MIL is necessarily going to give up babysitting for her future grandbabies over this - they have to be aware that the communal finances are not realistic - especially when their own finances can and will be decimated by the freeloaders.
In the early years of our marriage DH and I and my in-laws were asked to do a lot for certain family members. I remember telling DH repeatedly that all his brothers made more than his Dad and his parents should not live frugally so that his brothers could take trips to Disney and buy swimming pools. My MIL is verry good at saying no. Another favorite saying of hers when she is asked to babysit repeatedly and not paid is "I don't work for free - Do You?" I love it when she tells me she says this to my SIL's it cracks me up. I don't think My inlaws would say no so often if we had not continually told her to say no - that the requests she was getting were unreasonable. So, Cawiau, you are on the right track. You should not feel guilty about it, and you need to convince your MIL and (I think) your Mother that no is a perfectly acceptable response.
My in laws put a swimming pool on their CC for one of their children say 12 years ago. Said family has never paid it back. This was my MIL's wake up call. When the trips were made to Disney, The Dells, etc etc and new furniture was purchased etc. We pointed out that she should have been paid back first. This is hard to do if your 'rents aren't telling you they borrowed $$ but my MIL discusses everything financial with DH so he knows. Sounds like your MIL is talking to you about these requests too. I know she does not want to hear no as the proper answer but it is. If your wife's cousin and her husband had that car in their own name it would affect their credit and be a subject of the divorce. Since it is not affecting his credit - what does he have to lose.
Your Wife can support her cousin emotianally using phone and skype. This is how my parents kept in touch with parents and siblings that were several hours away. It was very effective. They are very close with their siblings even though all are a good 3 hours away. Cousin's finances are hers to fix not yours. It is just like enabling a drunk or a drug additct. If they don't hit bottom they will not get motivated to change the situation.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Mar 5, 2013 11:20:41 GMT -5
I think Bean's got a really good post here.
My family and DH's family doesn't have the money borrowing dynamic, as far as I'm aware. We DO have a lot of kid fundraisers for assorted schools in my family and there's a fair amount of "Beth wanted dinosaurs sheets for DS Mom. Here are the sheets, please get them to her and she owes me $17." Mom's house is the focal point we revolve around. I think we all see her or Dad at least a couple times a month. Which reminds me, I need to leave $17 at Mom's for my sister...
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