Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2013 11:47:30 GMT -5
Processing payroll sucks. Hire someone to do it for you.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Mar 5, 2013 11:52:11 GMT -5
It's funny to me reading all the responses - you really should tell the WHOLE story - that started YEARS ago - how they treated you before and after you got pregnant, how your maternity leave became non-existent, etc etc.
Your relationship with this "company" does not fit hostile work environment. It is pretty much a definition of abused wife - they beat you up, you clean up and go back, time and time again. why - only you know. You got out for a second - when you started your new business - but then the "husband" dragged you back again. why - only you know.
So, to put it into perspective - the company = the husband - who abused you for years and now you= the wife - is wondering if you should still be nice to him.
My answer to anyone else would be - give a 2 wk notice to be professional
My answer to you would be - give 2 wks notice bc you will be back at this company one way or another at some point later.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Mar 5, 2013 11:53:35 GMT -5
::It is pretty much a definition of abused wife ::
I'd be really offended by this if I was an abused wife. Comparing this situation to an abused person is kind of disgusting.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Mar 5, 2013 12:01:47 GMT -5
OK, what would you call it? The owners have been treating OP like garbage FOR YEARS and while they haven't physically hurt her, I think emotionally they have been very abusive. So, again, what would you call it?
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Mar 5, 2013 12:03:27 GMT -5
1. If you don't think you can sleep at night because of the situation, then do what you have to do to clear it. 2. Because depending on where you work and what you do, it can be a very small world out there and if your former coworkers know that you did your best to leave things as good as possible, it can be a good thing as you may end up working with them somewhere else again. 3. People have been known to forgive. Strangely enough. When I was working for the company I've been talking about, the owners were having A HUGE fued with her brother and former business partner. About 3 years before I went to work there, they were partners and he left to start his own company taking most of the employees and all of the profits with him (and quite a few of the clients). Leaving them to finish the projects for free just to retain the clients they had. The following fued made teenagers look good - insurance cancelled, screaming matches over the phone, etc. 10 years later, they went back in business with each other! I don't know how or why, but they did. DH and I ran into the female owner a couple years ago and she was all happy to see us. I won't go back to work for them, but I am no longer enemy #1. If someone called them up, they would probably give me a good reference now (not that I am willing to test it out). But people are funny. You never know when you might end up working with someone again. My freshman year of college I was on a committee with another freshman and he didn't do his job. 13 years later we work in the same town, with the same degree for different companies. If he put his resume in at our company wanting to work here, even though his resume is more impressive than mine, my impression is still my direct interaction from 13 years ago. I would be hesitant to want to bring him on board.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Mar 5, 2013 12:06:43 GMT -5
::I've never a multi-person business fold because of the loss of one employee:: I agree it's not going ot fold. But if I want to have a job for those 2 weeks, I'm going to make sure I have something valuable to do/add during that time that makes me less likely to be shown the door. There are 2 scenarios: 1. I'm giving my 2 weeks, I plan to use the next 2 weeks to help wrap up and document everything I do to help you function when I'm gone. 2. I'm giving my 2 weeks, I've already wrapped up and documented my job which gives you no real reason to keep me around for those 2 weeks. It's not that you might not be shown the door in both scenarios, it's just that one is FAR more likely to lead to you being lead out immediately. The owners don't have to know that have wrapped things up ahead of time. They don't have to know those things exist. If you want to force your way to work for those 2 weeks, more power to you, but that is sort of like suing to keep your job after a discrimination case. Why would you want to go back to work for them?
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Mar 5, 2013 14:17:09 GMT -5
OK, what would you call it? The owners have been treating OP like garbage FOR YEARS and while they haven't physically hurt her, I think emotionally they have been very abusive. So, again, what would you call it? Working for a crappy employer?
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Mar 5, 2013 14:22:49 GMT -5
::If you want to force your way to work for those 2 weeks, more power to you, but that is sort of like suing to keep your job after a discrimination case. ::
What? It's actually not remotely like that situation. YOu're not forcing your way to work for those 2 weeks, you'd be doing the company a FAVOR by working for those 2 weeks after they've asked you to bail them out because they don't know what they're doing.
::The owners don't have to know that have wrapped things up ahead of time. They don't have to know those things exist.::
Well if they don't know about them, then doing them doesn't really do you much good now does it? If I make a document that tells everyone how to do the job that I'm leaving, it doesn't really do anyone a lot of good if I then don't tell them that the document exists.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Mar 5, 2013 14:30:43 GMT -5
It's funny to me reading all the responses - you really should tell the WHOLE story - that started YEARS ago - how they treated you before and after you got pregnant, how your maternity leave became non-existent, etc etc. Your relationship with this "company" does not fit hostile work environment. It is pretty much a definition of abused wife - they beat you up, you clean up and go back, time and time again. why - only you know. You got out for a second - when you started your new business - but then the "husband" dragged you back again. why - only you know. So, to put it into perspective - the company = the husband - who abused you for years and now you= the wife - is wondering if you should still be nice to him. My answer to anyone else would be - give a 2 wk notice to be professional My answer to you would be - give 2 wks notice bc you will be back at this company one way or another at some point later. LOL - I had an employer that I likened to that. I wasn't trying to be disrespectful, but it didn't speak to my frame of mind. They would do this nasty crap to me, and I would say "But, I love you" and make excuses and stay (or, go back to work there.) I would agree that the analogy has some merit. Clearly maven is emotionally invested, and has a warped view of the relationship. As I stated before - they call her names and treat her like crap, but she would have a heart attack if they took away her perceived power before she was ready. All of the excuses about wanting them to have access to their own money, etc. It is just like saying that an abusive husband "needs" her. And staying to feed the communal dysfunction. I hope maven gets the new job, and get the hell out of there and creates a new outlook that is healthier. If she does return to this company, it will be to feed her own ego. Surely, she feels like she is the queen of castle there.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Mar 5, 2013 14:55:21 GMT -5
A favor? They aren't going to treat you like you are doing them a favor. Why do you think they will be all grateful if they show you the door then call you up the next day and ask you to come in to please help them? I cannot see that as a comfortable situation at all.
Sure it does. You don't tell them about it, but put it in a place that when they rifle through your stuff trying to figure out how to do your job they come across it. Better than blackmailing them into allowing you to have your 2 weeks notice.
Crappy employer asked a coworker to stay on a month instead of the 2 weeks notice he gave. They made his life living HELL. Sure they asked him to stay, but that doesn't mean they still didn't feel betrayed and the fact that he did stick around for that month, meant they got to take their displeasure out on him even more.
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moneymaven
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Post by moneymaven on Mar 5, 2013 14:57:16 GMT -5
Lol I have been totally taken out of context. Will reply to everything tonight.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Mar 5, 2013 14:58:41 GMT -5
I don't do payroll at my office, but if the office manager died, i'm sure i'd figure it out. I know where the documents are, and I can look up how it was done before. A PITA, yes, but the world won't stop running. Since my mom stayed an extra week with us, my dad had to payroll himself for the first time in 15 years! We took the kids into town to let my mom have a break and apparently she spent the whole time on the phone with my dad talking him through doing payroll for 4 people!! My poor dad, he's out of homemade cookies and he had to do payroll himself. It doesn't get much worse than that.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Mar 5, 2013 15:01:35 GMT -5
I don't do payroll at my office, but if the office manager died, i'm sure i'd figure it out. I know where the documents are, and I can look up how it was done before. A PITA, yes, but the world won't stop running. Since my mom stayed an extra week with us, my dad had to payroll himself for the first time in 15 years! We took the kids into town to let my mom have a break and apparently she spent the whole time on the phone with my dad talking him through doing payroll for 4 people!! My poor dad, he's out of homemade cookies and he had to do payroll himself. It doesn't get much worse than that. Being out of homemade cookies is VERY serious Mutt!
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Mar 5, 2013 15:02:07 GMT -5
::Crappy employer asked a coworker to stay on a month instead of the 2 weeks notice he gave. They made his life living HELL. Sure they asked him to stay, but that doesn't mean they still didn't feel betrayed and the fact that he did stick around for that month, meant they got to take their displeasure out on him even more. ::
Simple solution, stand up and walk out.
A lot better than passive-aggressively leaving things for them to "find" as they rifle through your documentation.
::Better than blackmailing them into allowing you to have your 2 weeks notice.::
Lol, I honestly don't even know how to respond to the idea that you think getting paid to do your job amounts to "blackmail". I guess I blackmail my employer every day, because the only way I do my job is if they agree to pay me for it...muahahahaha.
She should do the job her employer asks her to do. If her employer has asked her to document her job, she should absolutely do it. What she shouldn't be doing now is doing things her employer hasn't asked her to because she decided she's going to do it. She's not in charge here. If her employer wants to show her the door when she gives her 2 weeks and never speak to her again, that's their right as the employer.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Mar 5, 2013 15:10:23 GMT -5
I don't think anyone is arguing against that...
All I'm saying is that if she wants to make things easier for herself - and it sounds like, despite their treatment, she does feel some guilt at leaving them - she needs to make sure all her i's are dotted and t's are crossed before she leaves. If that's a "how to" manual, a bullet list of things that need to get done, or a day or two trying to train someone, it doesn't really matter. Chances are, they're going to complain no matter what she does - but at least that way, her conscience will be clear.
Or she can plan to leave them in the lurch and not worry about any bridges being burned.
But I think making zero preparations and assuming they'll let her work her two weeks hassle-free (or hoping that their lack of preparedness with regard to her duties will force them to keep her on) is a bad tactic, given the facts she's posted.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Mar 5, 2013 15:26:47 GMT -5
You are the one that thinks not having the documentation will ensure her, her 2 weeks notice. Personally, I don't think anything will ensure that. So, I suggest documenting the necessary information which she probably should anyway if it will help her sleep better at night. I would probably hand it to them as I was walking out the door, but you said that would take away her leverage. I just don't see why you think it is a good idea to go back to work in that situation.
I don't see how not having documentation where someone else can find it is not outside of the realm of things she should be doing. Maybe not a priority, but certainly not something outside of her job description.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Mar 5, 2013 15:28:17 GMT -5
Since my mom stayed an extra week with us, my dad had to payroll himself for the first time in 15 years! We took the kids into town to let my mom have a break and apparently she spent the whole time on the phone with my dad talking him through doing payroll for 4 people!! My poor dad, he's out of homemade cookies and he had to do payroll himself. It doesn't get much worse than that. Being out of homemade cookies is VERY serious Mutt! I know. In the meantime, my mom has made us 3 batches of chocolat chip cookies and 2 batches of brownies.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Mar 5, 2013 15:29:54 GMT -5
| Agreed... by that measure I should really just sit here at my desk until someone comes by and tells me to do something. There are plenty of emails I can answer, but no one has asked me to do that... |
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 5, 2013 15:32:20 GMT -5
| Agreed... by that measure I should really just sit here at my desk until someone comes by and tells me to do something. There are plenty of emails I can answer, but no one has asked me to do that... |
Woo Hoo!!! Nobody has actually asked me to do anything today!
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Mar 5, 2013 15:37:17 GMT -5
::Agreed... by that measure I should really just sit here at my desk until someone comes by and tells me to do something.::
Ummm isn't that what you're doing on YM?
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Mar 5, 2013 15:40:46 GMT -5
Being out of homemade cookies is VERY serious Mutt! I know. In the meantime, my mom has made us 3 batches of chocolat chip cookies and 2 batches of brownies. If your Mom is cooking, cleaning and just being really helpful without being interfering, I think we're related....
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susanb
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Post by susanb on Mar 5, 2013 15:42:05 GMT -5
susanb and bean, you both recall the stories pretty well. I closed my business after I returned to this company as part of my total commitment to the deal. Apparently I am the only one who held up my end of the deal. I am confused. I remember your story because of a thread over the holidays where WF cleaned out your account for some business debts. You said that you were using debt consolidation because your "business failed." How is that related to your employer? It seems like you are trying to make them responsible for your business and, at the same time, trying to assign yourself complete responsibility of their business' success or failure. I am sorry that your business didn't thrive. I know how much risk and time is involved in owning a business, but that isn't their fault. If they are unable to continue without you, they have a failure in processes and documentation, which isn't your fault. This is not to excuse the behavior of your employers. Racial comments and swearing at employees is not acceptable. I would be looking for new employment also.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Mar 5, 2013 15:45:41 GMT -5
Sweet! Beth is my big sister. My mom has been awesome about letting us parent and just backing us up with DS. Hubby probably thinks she is a little more interfering because he is home with her, but overall, it has been great having her stay with us. We have definintely needed the help.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Mar 5, 2013 15:50:32 GMT -5
I don't think anyone is arguing against that... All I'm saying is that if she wants to make things easier for herself - and it sounds like, despite their treatment, she does feel some guilt at leaving them - she needs to make sure all her i's are dotted and t's are crossed before she leaves. If that's a "how to" manual, a bullet list of things that need to get done, or a day or two trying to train someone, it doesn't really matter. Chances are, they're going to complain no matter what she does - but at least that way, her conscience will be clear. Or she can plan to leave them in the lurch and not worry about any bridges being burned. But I think making zero preparations and assuming they'll let her work her two weeks hassle-free (or hoping that their lack of preparedness with regard to her duties will force them to keep her on) is a bad tactic, given the facts she's posted. Agreed. I think she should just document her duties, put in her 2 weeks notice, and then let her employer decide whether or not they want to keep her around for the 2 weeks. There's really no need to get into these head games and power plays to try and force her employer to keep her around for another two weeks. Honestly, considering how these people have treated her, is it really in her best interests to strong arm them into keeping her around if they don't want to? And if she's done her documentation and they decide to show her the door, I think she can refuse to take their calls with a clear conscience, or just take their calls to be nice. Either way. But what she absolutely does need to do is to leave and never come back. Whether she will have enough sense to do this remains to be seen. Getting even or doing the right thing doesn't matter nearly as much as getting out and staying out.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Mar 5, 2013 15:50:46 GMT -5
::I don't see how not having documentation where someone else can find it is not outside of the realm of things she should be doing. Maybe not a priority, but certainly not something outside of her job description. ::
I realize I'm making an assumption here that she has things to do which her employer has asked her to do. If she's sitting around all day with nothing to do but move the mouse around, she should absolutely do some work to help the office.
::You are the one that thinks not having the documentation will ensure her, her 2 weeks notice. Personally, I don't think anything will ensure that. ::
It will if you take her posts to be truthful. According to them her employer literally wouldn't be able to do a thing without her there. I have my doubts as to how accurate that is, but if what she's saying is true, then yes, it basically does guarantee her 2 weeks of pay, or they just choose to shut down the business totally without her there to run it for them.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Mar 5, 2013 15:54:47 GMT -5
::I think she should just document her duties, put in her 2 weeks notice, and then let her employer decide whether or not they want to keep her around for the 2 weeks.::
And which of her job duties should she neglect while she takes on the task of documenting with detail everything she does so that someone new can carry on with efficiency once she leaves?
We have people with planned transitions to other areas of our company all the time. Sometimes it takes them months to document their processes so that someone else can take over. It usually involves lots of overtime that the company pays for.
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moneymaven
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Post by moneymaven on Mar 5, 2013 15:58:15 GMT -5
I'll clarify all of this tonight. Others have given their opinions, which I appreciate, but my concerns with this and theirs may be getting confused...
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Mar 5, 2013 16:00:34 GMT -5
I did not take the below quote to mean that. It means it would be hard for them and there would be a lot of cursing and muddling around. Of course if what you are interpretting her post to read is true, then they might as well shut the doors now.
At the end of my pregnancy, I still had deadlines, but I still found time to make sure everything was documented where we were on projects. I have stuff I'm working on right now, but our workload is a little light so I'm not giving it 110% today. If I wanted to, I could be putting together a how to manual while I was doing my other work. It isn't an either or.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Mar 5, 2013 16:02:16 GMT -5
But taking what you've said at face value, none of us should do anything that isn't either 1) listed in our job description; or 2) specifically requested by a supervisor. Isn't part of being a good employee taking the initiative to do things that - while perhaps not specifically requested - help or add value to the organization?
Obviously one shouldn't let their normal duties fall to the wayside while doing so, but there is plenty of middle ground between moving the mouse around all day and being unable to take five minutes to draft a short list of things that need to be done. I imagine most of our jobs fall somewhere within that spectrum.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Mar 5, 2013 16:04:47 GMT -5
MONTHS!!!! Holy Crap! Yeah, I've put together a how to manual in less than a week and that was while I was actually doing the work described in the how to manual for the next project, so it even got charged to a project.
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