thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,439
|
Post by thyme4change on Mar 4, 2013 14:07:56 GMT -5
I would give them 2 weeks notice, and the reason for quitting would be that they don't appear to want me around anymore. If they think I'm a shitty person, they this news should bring them great joy.
|
|
susanb
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jun 21, 2012 14:16:56 GMT -5
Posts: 1,430
|
Post by susanb on Mar 4, 2013 14:17:35 GMT -5
::If you apply for jobs in the future and use them as a phone reference, send them a quick email first, letting them know you employers will be calling and attach the letter of recommendation. Emailing the reference letter will help them remember the positive things they thought about you and that they have put it in writing. I would actually like it if past employees did this because we sometimes get caught of guard or can't remember enough specifics about a person from 5 years ago. :: This is only going to work if she actually takes those calls and requests for help though. I wouldn't. You'll be working another job. You won't have time, nor is it appropriate, to take calls helping your own employer while you should be working for your new one She can place limits on answering questions that will work for her and her new employer. For example, she can say that she will answer questions by email after work. I know lots of people are advocating that she burn the mother down. If that won't interfere with her long term goals, I agree. If it would interfere with her long term goals, it seems like a bad idea, particularly since I don't know how big her town/industry is.
|
|
hoops902
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:21:29 GMT -5
Posts: 11,978
|
Post by hoops902 on Mar 4, 2013 14:46:27 GMT -5
::I know lots of people are advocating that she burn the mother down.::
I don't think she should "burn the mother down". I think she does what most employees do. She gives her 2 weeks, and then she leaves. During those 2 weeks she can work on whatever her employer would like her to work on...keep on doing her job, write procedures, whatever.
There's a lot of room between going out of your way to screw your employer and working for free after you've quit.
|
|
susanb
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jun 21, 2012 14:16:56 GMT -5
Posts: 1,430
|
Post by susanb on Mar 4, 2013 14:55:15 GMT -5
Granted, I am coming at this from an employer's perspective. We have had to contact prior employees on a number of occasions. There has never been a time where we asked for more than 15 minutes of their time after they left our company. It sounds like Maven's employer may be wanting a lot more than 15 minutes, so Hoops and Mid have good points.
While we may have gotten 15 minutes of free time, we also have to spend time that doesn't make us money on employees after they leave. Things such as verifying employment dates take time. When I get those calls, I drop everything and make sure I turn it around the same business day because I want the best for the people who have left our company. All I am saying is that it is a two way street.
|
|
midjd
Administrator
Your Money Admin
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:09:23 GMT -5
Posts: 17,719
|
Post by midjd on Mar 4, 2013 15:27:45 GMT -5
Susan, I think your perspective is a good one, and in any other situation I'd agree with you. But I'm also guessing you don't make a habit of telling your employees they are shitty people. It seems that from what Maven has described about her employer, any post-termination efforts she makes are going to be unappreciated/ignored or used as leverage ("we're not going to give your reference until you help us finish X, Y, and Z...") When dealing with someone like that, I think it's usually best to cut ties as quickly and professionally as possible.
|
|
muttleynfelix
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:32:52 GMT -5
Posts: 9,406
|
Post by muttleynfelix on Mar 4, 2013 15:59:28 GMT -5
I was called a liar by a former employer and when I gave my 2 week notice, they decided they only needed me for 1. But I wrote up where i was on every single project I could think of and basically left things as good as could be. I still got a phone call from them a month later about where a project ended up. And then they wanted to bitch me out that it was all my fault that this one thing hadn't gotten done. If my hubby didn't still work for them at the time, I wouldn't have even taken the call.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,439
|
Post by thyme4change on Mar 4, 2013 16:02:20 GMT -5
I had one job where they laid me off, and then called me a couple of times per week for months. I finally told them to stop calling me. Seriously, if I was that important, maybe you shouldn't have laid me off.
|
|
bean29
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 22:26:57 GMT -5
Posts: 9,971
|
Post by bean29 on Mar 4, 2013 16:24:00 GMT -5
MoneyMaven: Sorry you are going through this. If I remember correctly you previously had issues with said family member. You left the company to do your own thing. They begged you to come back and you did. You also at some point recently posted (to my recollection) that you do not have clean credit due to a failed personal business endevear.
I belevie you are a licensed insurance agent. I would think you would be very employable. If you have clean credit I would attempt to buy an existing agency. If you do not make ther rounds/distribute your resume to local insurance agents. If your agency is not independent, you might want to make known your situation to your Owner's Manager and they will probably help you land with another agent. To get their assistance you probably will need to tell them what you told us though. My DH's company used to do more of this but DH and some other agents complained to the company about them trying to recruit their staff away and they are much more careful not to do this. But in your case, given the situation it is pretty obvious you will leave the current agency and they might as well help you land in another agency rather that see you set up with the competition.
I am kind of surprised they did not figure out the motives of their family member. DH has a long term employee and has had family members work for him. He makes everyone report to the "Office Manger" even our son. One family member who worked for him texted and took personal calls all day long. DH knew exactly what was going on and he warned her a few times, then fired her.
Good luck to you.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 18, 2024 6:33:40 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2013 16:53:28 GMT -5
If they are so unprofessional, I don't know that a 2-weeks notice and even helping them afterwards would be enough to give good references for you.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 18, 2024 6:33:40 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2013 17:16:15 GMT -5
I too am so sorry this is happening to you. I'd find another job ASAP (and I agree that you sound eminently employable). I'd give them their two weeks' notice but my guess is that they may well throw you out well before the two weeks are up.
Look at the bright side ... once you find a new job you won't ever have to socialize with these people again!
|
|
moneymaven
Well-Known Member
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 10:05:04 GMT -5
Posts: 1,864
|
Post by moneymaven on Mar 5, 2013 0:11:42 GMT -5
susanb and bean, you both recall the stories pretty well. I closed my business after I returned to this company as part of my total commitment to the deal. Apparently I am the only one who held up my end of the deal.
I don't expect any references or letters of recommendations. I've been specifically and methodically casting my net to various contacts within the industry and as part of my general work. All have been incredibly supportive and have offered up their personal information as references in my job search. In my experience hiring folks, I always got much better references from colleagues outside of the old organization compared to the generic and vanilla reference most employers are able to provide.
As far as resignation, there is no scenario where this is going to go well. I am going to give my two weeks notice and that's that. I'd literally have a heart attack if they told me to leave before the two weeks are up; they sincerely have zero idea where their money is, let alone how to get to it, make payroll happen, amongst some very other crucial tasks. Because the most essential parts of my job also reflect the most valuable relationships I've developed, any requests for assistance may not be high priority (their words, not mine).
In other news, I've got an interview for a position that I am really enthusiastic about tomorrow. DH commented that this is the first time he's seen me excited about work in a long time. The position will be a pay cut, but the growth opportunities are substantial. I've got a colleague that has worked at this organization for several years now. I loved hearing about the culture, employee centered mentor programs and continuing ed opportunities. I think it could be a really wonderful fit. They interviewer was also enthusiastic to meet me as we discussed the opportunity. Wish me luck. I am so ready to move on to the next chapter of my life.
|
|
Wisconsin Beth
Distinguished Associate
No, we don't walk away. But when we're holding on to something precious, we run.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:59:36 GMT -5
Posts: 30,626
|
Post by Wisconsin Beth on Mar 5, 2013 9:02:31 GMT -5
Good luck Maven! I have no advice for you, just good wishes and hugs.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,439
|
Post by thyme4change on Mar 5, 2013 9:35:46 GMT -5
I really hope you get this job, but planning your departure seems a little premature. You haven't even interviewed yet. [/span]
|
|
muttleynfelix
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:32:52 GMT -5
Posts: 9,406
|
Post by muttleynfelix on Mar 5, 2013 9:46:44 GMT -5
Having worked with these type of people before, I would put together a basic manual on how to do these things before you give your 2 weeks notice and expect to be shown the door ASAP. It doesn't matter how important you are or what you doing important, they will take it personally and more than likely tell you to get out.
My boss was a 20% owner in the first company I worked for after college and he decided he couldn't work with the husband and wife owners any more. He got a new job. Gave his 1 month notice as required, that evening he was told to pack up his things (while they supervised) and not to come back, that they didn't need him! He never got his 20% investment back out of that company (they also did some other shitty things like try to cancel his wife's health insurance while she was getting treatment for cancer!).
|
|
hoops902
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:21:29 GMT -5
Posts: 11,978
|
Post by hoops902 on Mar 5, 2013 9:49:01 GMT -5
::I would put together a basic manual on how to do these things before you give your 2 weeks notice and expect to be shown the door ASAP. It doesn't matter how important you are or what you doing important, they will take it personally and more than likely tell you to get out.::
Why would you put together a manual if you expected to be shown the door ASAP? The smart thing is not to put together a manual at all and guarantee yourself 2 full weeks of employment in order to finish things up. Doing the manual prior is just asking to be shown the door immediately.
|
|
muttleynfelix
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:32:52 GMT -5
Posts: 9,406
|
Post by muttleynfelix on Mar 5, 2013 9:54:44 GMT -5
IF you are going to be shown the door immediately, you are going to be shown the door immediately. Not having that manual will not guarentee yourself 2 weeks. There is nothing that says she has to tell them she has put that together. They don't have to know. If she is going to lose sleep over not having 2 weeks to pull things together. then do it beforehand. My old boss thought he was going to have a month to wrap things up. At 5pm on friday after everyone else had left for the day, he was told to pack up, leave the building and never come back.
|
|
midjd
Administrator
Your Money Admin
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:09:23 GMT -5
Posts: 17,719
|
Post by midjd on Mar 5, 2013 9:55:01 GMT -5
Frankly I think she'll be shown the door either way - might as well give them something to go by and prevent them from interfering with her new employment by calling her all the time in a panic.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,331
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 5, 2013 10:37:58 GMT -5
Why would you have a heart attack? They called you a shitty person. I wouldn’t so much as give them a paperclip before I leave. Not my problem they don’t know how to manage their company. If makes you feel better make a manual or a bulleted list and leave it on your desk right before you flip them the bird. Otherwise stop caring. They have made pretty clear how much they care about you, stop putting more into this job than you are getting out of it.
|
|
hoops902
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:21:29 GMT -5
Posts: 11,978
|
Post by hoops902 on Mar 5, 2013 10:45:17 GMT -5
::Frankly I think she'll be shown the door either way - might as well give them something to go by and prevent them from interfering with her new employment by calling her all the time in a panic.::
It's easy to stop them from interfering with her new employment by calling her...don't give her your new phone number and don't take their calls.
::IF you are going to be shown the door immediately, you are going to be shown the door immediately. Not having that manual will not guarentee yourself 2 weeks. ::
If they are as in the dark about how to get their own money it will. The first time they call her (which from the sounds of it woudl be the next day), she can tell them she planned on using her last 2 weeks of notice to document her job for them so they could function. Giving them that documentation prior is a guarantee that they won't need you nearly as desperately.
::My old boss thought he was going to have a month to wrap things up. At 5pm on friday after everyone else had left for the day, he was told to pack up, leave the building and never come back.::
And they could do that and apparently function alright. If what maven says is true, in her case she'd be getting a call the very next day.
|
|
midjd
Administrator
Your Money Admin
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:09:23 GMT -5
Posts: 17,719
|
Post by midjd on Mar 5, 2013 10:52:06 GMT -5
Why would she want them to need her desperately if she's not going to make herself available? Talk about burning bridges...
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
Don't be a fool. Call me!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,345
|
Post by swamp on Mar 5, 2013 10:53:38 GMT -5
While the vindictive bitch in me wants the owner to struggle, it's not very professional. I'd do the SOP manual. Even if she doesn't leave this time, she could get hit but a bus tomorrow.
Do what's right, not what makes you giggle.
|
|
hoops902
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:21:29 GMT -5
Posts: 11,978
|
Post by hoops902 on Mar 5, 2013 11:01:37 GMT -5
::Why would she want them to need her desperately if she's not going to make herself available? Talk about burning bridges...::
Because she could make herself available, she'd have just given her 2 weeks notice. She has 2 weeks before starting her next job where she could continue working for them.
You give your 2 weeks notice. They escort you out of the building immediately. They call you the next day when they can't do anything. You have 2 more weeks of working for them to do the manual.
|
|
muttleynfelix
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:32:52 GMT -5
Posts: 9,406
|
Post by muttleynfelix on Mar 5, 2013 11:31:20 GMT -5
Or she may start her new job sooner. That is what me and all my coworkers did when we were shown the door with less than 2 weeks notice.
Actually they couldn't, they called me the next day and I had left them a month earlier. The only reason I didn't flip them the bird is because my DH still worked for them and I knew they would take it out on him.
|
|
muttleynfelix
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:32:52 GMT -5
Posts: 9,406
|
Post by muttleynfelix on Mar 5, 2013 11:34:12 GMT -5
Hoops - In small companies, shitty owners take it personally when you leave. It doesn't matter if they can't function without you, they will do whatever they can out of spite. If they can't do payroll because they showed you the door, well they will just bitch to everyone left behind that it is all your fault. They didn't schedule a meeting or get a permit after you left even though you left it on the list of things still needed to do, it is still your fault. Once you say you are leaving, you are enemy #1. So long.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,439
|
Post by thyme4change on Mar 5, 2013 11:39:11 GMT -5
I've never a multi-person business fold because of the loss of one employee. We all like to think we are important, but if they own the business, they should have some inkling where their money is - you know, like tax returns, or a filing cabinet, or something. They can get to their money. Doing payroll is not rocket science. They will figure it out. We all like to think that our workplace will just crumble without us, yet it never has. Sure, if Maven really cares, she can write a one page document with the very, most important stuff, and if she wants to include other pages like steps to do payroll, she can do that during her last two weeks. They made this mess, and they have the most to lose. Maven isn't the single person who can keep the business running. And, if I'm wrong and she is the only person on the planet that could possibly ever do this job and keep the business afloat - then let them fail. Seriously, not only did they treat you like poo, but if they can't run a business, then their business should close.
|
|
hoops902
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:21:29 GMT -5
Posts: 11,978
|
Post by hoops902 on Mar 5, 2013 11:40:39 GMT -5
Hoops - In small companies, shitty owners take it personally when you leave. It doesn't matter if they can't function without you, they will do whatever they can out of spite. If they can't do payroll because they showed you the door, well they will just bitch to everyone left behind that it is all your fault. They didn't schedule a meeting or get a permit after you left even though you left it on the list of things still needed to do, it is still your fault. Once you say you are leaving, you are enemy #1. So long. And if you are enemy #1, then why do you care about burning bridges exactly? The differing logic (on the thread, not by you) doesn't work out. Either they are going to spite you for leaving and never give you a good recommendation no matter what you do...at which point who cares if you screw them over...or they aren't going ot spite you and they're going to call you immediately for help or let you finish out your 2 weeks as normal.
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
Don't be a fool. Call me!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,345
|
Post by swamp on Mar 5, 2013 11:41:40 GMT -5
I don't do payroll at my office, but if the office manager died, i'm sure i'd figure it out. I know where the documents are, and I can look up how it was done before. A PITA, yes, but the world won't stop running.
|
|
Wisconsin Beth
Distinguished Associate
No, we don't walk away. But when we're holding on to something precious, we run.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:59:36 GMT -5
Posts: 30,626
|
Post by Wisconsin Beth on Mar 5, 2013 11:42:40 GMT -5
Hoops - In small companies, shitty owners take it personally when you leave. It doesn't matter if they can't function without you, they will do whatever they can out of spite. If they can't do payroll because they showed you the door, well they will just bitch to everyone left behind that it is all your fault. They didn't schedule a meeting or get a permit after you left even though you left it on the list of things still needed to do, it is still your fault. Once you say you are leaving, you are enemy #1. So long. And if you are enemy #1, then why do you care about burning bridges exactly? The differing logic (on the thread, not by you) doesn't work out. Either they are going to spite you for leaving and never give you a good recommendation no matter what you do...at which point who cares if you screw them over...or they aren't going ot spite you and they're going to call you immediately for help or let you finish out your 2 weeks as normal. I'm guessing in Maven's case, it's going to be a weird combo of all of the above.
|
|
hoops902
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 13:21:29 GMT -5
Posts: 11,978
|
Post by hoops902 on Mar 5, 2013 11:43:14 GMT -5
::I've never a multi-person business fold because of the loss of one employee::
I agree it's not going ot fold. But if I want to have a job for those 2 weeks, I'm going to make sure I have something valuable to do/add during that time that makes me less likely to be shown the door. There are 2 scenarios:
1. I'm giving my 2 weeks, I plan to use the next 2 weeks to help wrap up and document everything I do to help you function when I'm gone.
2. I'm giving my 2 weeks, I've already wrapped up and documented my job which gives you no real reason to keep me around for those 2 weeks.
It's not that you might not be shown the door in both scenarios, it's just that one is FAR more likely to lead to you being lead out immediately.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,439
|
Post by thyme4change on Mar 5, 2013 11:46:15 GMT -5
I agree hoops, but I don't get the sense that Maven's heart attack would be because she would be out a couple of weeks of pay. It seems to me that she would have a heart attack because the building would instantly crumble, and the 2 baffoon owners wouldn't be able to tie their own shoes. And that isn't true. It is a hard pill to swallow that the world doesn't end when you leave, and I think that is what Maven is thinking.
|
|