ysi
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Post by ysi on Jan 24, 2011 19:43:41 GMT -5
Absolutely.
1. I had an opportunity to do his work and did not and something bad happened. Ever since I have had nothing but trials and tribulations, where before life was good. The devil/evil entered my life at that point.
2. I looked upward and said "Just take me now, God. Just take me now." 5-10min later I was in a highspeed accident that by all rights should have killed me and the other driver. We walked away.
3. I did not turn right on red at an intersection I've turned right on red at for 30yrs every night. One-way street, and moments later an suv came speeding over the hill going the wrong way.
4. I was visited in my sleep by 3 angels, asked if I accept him, and I replied sarcastically "Yeah, right." Poof the dream ended, I was awake, my hairs were standing on end, the turned off TV made a sound, the street light flared. Just something electrical??
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jan 24, 2011 19:50:11 GMT -5
So god personally looks out for you because you believe? What about those Christians who are killed in traffic accidents and whatnot? They doubted or something so they deserved to die? Was god on the can and just couldn't get around to saving them? It was important to save you from the car accident by keeping you from turning right on the red, but it's cool to let a baby be born with HIV/AIDS, cause you know, it's all part of the plan? Are you noticing that if god is responsible for every little detail of our lives that kind of makes him a douche, since a lot of us have pretty screwed up lives?
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Post by suzwantstobefree on Jan 24, 2011 19:52:29 GMT -5
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Post by suzwantstobefree on Jan 24, 2011 19:57:51 GMT -5
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Jan 24, 2011 20:02:39 GMT -5
"Whereas the existence of god, or rather the theory of such, has been tested and proven to be false." It has? You just got done ranting about how it cannot be tested. "When one calls it a THEORY with a capital T then it has been tested by (often) thousands of people and none of them have found it to be false" Simply being unable to prove something to be false does not make it true. How many years did people operate on the notion that the earth was flat? For thousands of years no one proved it false, that did not mean it was true. It almost always means the testing is inadequate (as in, probably not testable with today's equipment/knowledge). But slap a "science" label on inadequate ability to test and people fall all over themselves believing stories to be true. Ah ha.. see.. sorry.. I'm not the best debater in the world (by a long, long, long shot). I appreciate you pointing out my mistake. What I meant to say is that things that have been attributed to god have been proven to be false, it being impossible to test whether or not something that has no observable form/effect exists. And I'd have to check what I've written, but I don't think I've said that not being able to prove something false makes it true - what it does make it is a valid theory. Even gravity is a theory. Science, technically, doesn't do absolutes. It does "really well established to be true, but we could be wrong". Now, God is almost impossible to disprove with science because it is untestable. One can, however, disprove God (at least the Christian god) using logic. Is God infallible?
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Jan 24, 2011 20:07:46 GMT -5
:: I looked upward and said "Just take me now, God. Just take me now." 5-10min later I was in a highspeed accident that by all rights should have killed me and the other driver.::
Perhaps if you had been looking at the road instead.....
::I was visited in my sleep by 3 angels, asked if I accept him, and I replied sarcastically "Yeah, right." Poof the dream ended, I was awake, my hairs were standing on end, the turned off TV made a sound, the street light flared. Just something electrical?? ::
I would wager a guess that yes, something that made electrical things make noises and flare was most likely: something electrical.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Jan 24, 2011 20:08:21 GMT -5
The one argument for a creator is that the Universe exists and everything has a cause. Therefore something must have caused the Universe to exist. However, there are even theories about this that I, personally, don't understand.
I'm just unwilling to accept that anyone knows what that something is and I'm definitely unwilling to accept that he sat down with a few blokes and told them to tell me how to live my life.
I have to take things on faith just as much as the next person because I am not all-knowing. What I do know is that if I don't know something, I know I can look it up and find someone who wondered the same thing, hypothesized, tested, and made a theory. That's what I choose to believe.
As I've said before, everyone else can believe what they want to believe as long as they understand that they're working on faith, just as I understand that I'm working on faith (usually backed up by proof and logic).
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jan 24, 2011 20:10:48 GMT -5
So god personally looks out for you because you believe? What about those Christians who are killed in traffic accidents and whatnot? They doubted or something so they deserved to die? Was god on the can and just couldn't get around to saving them? It was important to save you from the car accident by keeping you from turning right on the red, but it's cool to let a baby be born with HIV/AIDS, cause you know, it's all part of the plan? Are you noticing that if god is responsible for every little detail of our lives that kind of makes him a douche, since a lot of us have pretty screwed up lives? I think that it is our interference with God's plan that causes bad things to happen. He would have taken care of everyone of our needs, but we decided we knew better then him by the fact that he told Adam and Eve not to eat from the one tree and they chose to ignore Him. Good things happen to bad people and bad things happen to good people but I believe in the end that by having faith in God I will be in a better place one day. but why does "our" interference impinge upon a newborn baby's life, where this supposed "god" has decided this baby will have life-threatening disease(s) to contend with? this baby hasn't done anything at all to infuriate Der Fuhrer, so to speak, unless Christianity wants to explore reincarnation....which I've always understood to be taboo in the Christian religions. fwiw, this question is aimed at anyone willing to answer, not just suz. her comment just happened to jump out at me.
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Post by suzwantstobefree on Jan 24, 2011 20:57:56 GMT -5
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Post by suzwantstobefree on Jan 24, 2011 21:01:44 GMT -5
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cael
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Post by cael on Jan 24, 2011 22:11:24 GMT -5
Everyone come be a Unitarian Universalist with me. We think whatever we want, literally.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Jan 24, 2011 22:58:26 GMT -5
Everyone come be a Unitarian Universalist with me. We think whatever we want, literally. If I were going to be anything, that would be it. Sadly, it's still an organized religion which inevitably leads to corruption. I prefer being a lone wolf who occasionally agrees with people.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jan 24, 2011 23:10:54 GMT -5
I'm Agnostic. My mother is one of those annoying Bible thumpers who really doesn't know WTF she is even talking about. For example, when I was pregnant with my oldest there was a chance that she could have died in-utero or been born way too early. My mom got on the phone with her "prayer circle" and a few weeks later when we learned that my dd was ok, my mom gave God all the credit.
Fast forward to my next pregnancy. I was having lots of bleeding in my second trimester so my mom calls the same "prayer circle" to get the prayer chain started. I lost my son just shy of 20 weeks and when I told my mom that was proof that prayers don't work, she told me that it was God's will...so God's will was to take an unborn child's life? first off, why pray if it's all at God's whim...and secondly, fuck God if that's the way he plays (no disrespect to anyone that is religious but that comment by my mom made me see red).
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Mad Dawg Wiccan
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Post by Mad Dawg Wiccan on Jan 24, 2011 23:25:18 GMT -5
Does God Exist?
He/She does to me, and in the long run that's all that counts.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jan 24, 2011 23:35:15 GMT -5
Drive by post here..... I would like to point out that if we are going to advertise the US as the "Land of the Free" then we can't keep passing legislation that takes away a person's freedom to choose (and not just in the case of abortions). An American has the right to choose how to live his or her OWN life and we shouldn't be imposing our ideals on to anyone else. What gives any of us the right to dictate how another adult chooses to live THEIR life as long as they are not hurting anyone else? ETA: or breaking the law, since I know that SOMEONE is going to start splitting hairs. For those of us that are pro-life, we believe that abortion IS hurting someone else....hence the crux of the debate. I believe it is a baby but those who are pro-choice see it as a fetus. There is no way to reconcile to strong, opposing beliefs. Just because a baby can't life without support doesn't make it less of a baby to me. If I walked into a hospital room and shut off a patient's life support, I would be charged with murder. To me, there is no difference.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Jan 25, 2011 0:47:14 GMT -5
You mentioned that you still were friends with people that have had abortions. How can you reconcile that with the fact that you believe they are murderers?
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Post by lakhota on Jan 25, 2011 3:51:14 GMT -5
It is easy to prove to yourself that God is imaginary. The evidence is all around you. Billions of people attend millions of churches around the world to worship God. Yet the God they worship is completely imaginary. Their belief represents a delusion. God is Imaginary: 50 Simple Proofsgodisimaginary.com/index.htm
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cael
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Post by cael on Jan 25, 2011 8:43:37 GMT -5
Everyone come be a Unitarian Universalist with me. We think whatever we want, literally. If I were going to be anything, that would be it. Sadly, it's still an organized religion which inevitably leads to corruption. I prefer being a lone wolf who occasionally agrees with people. That's cool. I do kind of disagree with organized religion inevitably leading to corruption.... but I kind of agree with it too. On the disagree hand - individual churches can be wonderful, caring supportive communities for people, regardless of what denomination they are. And obviously some are not like that. Judging an individual church based on their larger organization, which may be corrupt (Catholicism for example) isn't quite fair in my view (although, I've never been Catholic so I can't speak for them ). Then, on the agree side re: corruption... look at the Catholic church, the crusades, etc. Yeah. That said, going to church isn't for everyone and that's great! My church is like my second home, I grew up there and feel very strongly about it. And I'm agnostic/borderline atheist, and there are many folks like that at my church. Find your own way spiritually and do what feels right for you
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2011 9:02:21 GMT -5
And Hindus believe that cows are sacred. So should we outlaw meat consumption because it goes against their beliefs?
What about smoking? It has been proven that smoking is bad for a person so should we outlaw tobacco?
People do things all the time that I may not agree with but it's their choice. We live in a land that is free so the choices should be available whether or not we agree with them.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jan 25, 2011 9:39:38 GMT -5
"One can, however, disprove God (at least the Christian god) using logic.
Is God infallible?"
I promise you cannot disprove the Christian God exists using logic. You may prove that one person's view of who/how God is cannot be possible, but that does not disprove existence. I think the biggest issue would be deciding who "Christian God" is even purported to be. I'm not sure you can even nail down that, much less delve into disproving existence based on it.
To answer the question of infallibility. I would assume so, but I don't really know. I would assume if you believe he created everything he is infallible as anything you felt was "wrong" could just as easily be your own perception. If it were me, and I created everything, I would imagine that means I also created what is right and wrong and therefore what I do is right and what I say is wrong is wrong. That can change from moment to moment as I see fit. It's people who create their own concrete rules about right and wrong, that wouldn't mean those rules applied to me.
If you have 5 hamsters in a cage in your room and those hamsters decide you must be a horrible person to keep them caged up like that, that you are yourself a giant hairless hamster, that you are the most powerful being who has ever existed, that you control the sun and everything in the universe...they might sometimes be right, but their perception of you is not necessarily accurate. However their misconceptions about you does not magically mean that you don't exist.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jan 25, 2011 9:50:26 GMT -5
God is Imaginary: 50 Simple Proofs
godisimaginary.com/index.htmI didn't read them all, but many of them are based on some kind of notion that God is your butler waiting to do anything you ask. And if he does not do everything you ask him to, he must not exist. By the logic used in those examples if I send my gf an email asking her to have a new 60" flatscreen TV waiting for me when I get home tonight...and I get home and there's no TV, she does not exist because she didn't do what I asked her to. The rest are basically partial texts and sentence fragments pulled from the Bible written by people which the author of the site is attributing to be literal even though the fragments pulled are mostly from parables.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 25, 2011 10:05:33 GMT -5
Agreed, hoops. I should also point out that the author's ignorance of scripture is stellar, to say the least.
What happened to suzewantstobefree?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2011 10:07:03 GMT -5
I wasn't here, but I guess there was a kerfluffle on the "I am Pro-Life" thread and she left.
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robinking
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Post by robinking on Jan 25, 2011 10:09:05 GMT -5
Why weren't the chicks Cain mated with in the Garden with the other people? Because they weren't created there. They were on a parallel evolutionary track. Just a theory.
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whiskmav
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Post by whiskmav on Jan 25, 2011 10:26:20 GMT -5
Beerwench-I disagree. You should get drunk at least 3 times a year and high at least twice in that same time span.
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robinking
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Post by robinking on Jan 25, 2011 10:26:44 GMT -5
Ultimately we must decide on our own. But, to the non-believers I ask; are we better of with logic or love?
Using God as a moral compass gives people hope, selflessness and charity. Using logic as a moral compass will devolve into mathematical fact. Example:
Under God's Law we take care of the helpless, stay monogamous with our loved one, don't steal even when we know we won't get caught...
With logic and math we go to a one child policy as needed, abort all babies with illness, genetically modify humans to remove all illness (which quickly evolves into modifying for height, skin tone, eye color, intelligence...), we control all human behavior that can be detrimental , we have sex with whoever we want because it feels good...
With God, I contend we are individuals working and living together... looking out for one another. Without God, we quickly become a world of logic and more like China; where the individual will be sacrificed for the collective.
Just my opinion.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2011 10:32:46 GMT -5
Hey, I didn't say it - Raymond Chandler did. ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2011 10:35:40 GMT -5
I am a non-believer and I am teaching my children that you do the right thing because it's the right thing to do - not because god is going to strike you down if you don't.
They're still pretty young so I will have to let you know if personal responsibility is enough to ingrain compassion in a human being or not.
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cael
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Post by cael on Jan 25, 2011 10:41:39 GMT -5
Ultimately we must decide on our own. But, to the non-believers I ask; are we better of with logic or love? Using God as a moral compass gives people hope, selflessness and charity. Using logic as a moral compass will devolve into mathematical fact. Example: Under God's Law we take care of the helpless, stay monogamous with our loved one, don't steal even when we know we won't get caught... With logic and math we go to a one child policy as needed, abort all babies with illness, genetically modify humans to remove all illness (which quickly evolves into modifying for height, skin tone, eye color, intelligence...), we control all human behavior that can be detrimental , we have sex with whoever we want because it feels good... With God, I contend we are individuals working and living together... looking out for one another. Without God, we quickly become a world of logic and more like China; where the individual will be sacrificed for the collective. Just my opinion. I like to think that logic and basic care & compassion for fellow human beings can go hand in hand, though sadly they do not a lot of times. At heart I'm really a humanist!
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 25, 2011 10:42:10 GMT -5
Geez, I don't agree with everything said on these boards even though I enjoy hearing another person's point of view. It does make me think as well as taking me aback sometimes but to just leave because you're upset that someone doesn't agree with you or insults you? Who here hasn't been insulted? I don't think I'd give someone the pleasure of thinking they had gotten rid of me. There's posters who are a bit of a pill but so what?
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